The United States Seriously Messed Up?

[C_Clayton_Jones]

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This board can provide an excellent microcosm of what has happened, what is happening, to this country: Once an issue --any issue -- becomes politicized, chances that we'll be able to work together to fix the problem essentially drop to zero.

Look at any given thread, any given issue: The problem/issue is tossed out, usually from a hardcore leftwing or hardcore rightwing perspective. Virtually all arguments are black & white, binary, without even a hint of acknowledgment to the value of any opposing arguments in the least.

Next the name-calling and personal insults begin, and then it almost inevitably deteriorates even further into straw man arguments, where the poster puts untrue/absurd words into the mouth of their "opponent" (sure would be nice if we were in this together) for the intellectually dishonest goal of shooting down a point the other person did not make. It's all about ego & narcissism, about "winning" the argument, and not about actually fixing the problem.

Bottom line: Once a problem/issue is identified, and there are few exceptions if any, the narcissists take over the conversation and we may as well forget about any kind of tangible, identifiable progress. Everything becomes either/or, my way or the highway, and any reasonable adult will tell you that's not the way to fix a problem.

The narcissists, the partisan ideologues, are the problem. Far worse, they're the minority yet they make the most noise and as a result have the most influence. I wish they'd find another hobby and allow the adults in the room, the majority, to work together to fix our increasing problems. The ship is sinking and the deckhands are pointing the finger at each other.

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The ship is not ‘sinking.’

To believe this makes one a partisan ideologue who is part of the problem.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

What you are witnessing is the moral decay of America from the inside out. It's been a gradual buildup. I disagree with the title of the book on the link - The beginning of the end. I believe the beginning of the end was over 12 years ago and what you are seeing now is the "end of the end." There are two camps. One says America will continue for another 200 years while the other says we've hit the bottom. Surely there is a catastrophic event at hand even now..

So what happens to a nation that is divided such as America? It falls. I don't believe this adminstration is sending armies to come and kill me and my family but I do believe Putin is going to send his armies to destroy America and China & a few communist allies of theirs will join them. Then we'll be left without a govt and an all out war here in which we'll be fending for ourselves.

So what you have to decide is whether to stay or to go. It's a personal decision for each American and I don't condemn those who wish to leave. Many people are quietly moving out of the USA. I think if you are staying you need to realize that we are going to be attacked and invaded by communist natons - led by Russia and China and life will be hell on earth here. I believe in the end we will prevail and then the day of division will be over and the enemy driven back but not without a very long struggle. I doubt we will ever come back to a superpower status.

True. Nations as divided as America is fall. It's been going on for awhile so it's rather surprising that people are just now realizing how far it has gone. It's a moral decay, believing that the more morally decayed they are the more moral they become. We celebrate murder, of the unborn moving on to anyone who is or has become inconvenient. The population is drifting toward crippling their minds with drugs, and that's okay, what's wrong is to try to stop the drift. Sexual license is to be celebrated. The only error is when someone says no. We have elevated feeling good to the epitome of what humanity should be. No matter what the cost to someone else. So play that knock out game, kill that child, torture that animal, the one who is wrong is the person like the baker or photographer that just doesn't want to participate in public depravity.

You might be afraid of some other stronger nation with a moral fabric. Why? What could some other nation do to us that could possibly be worse than what we are doing to ourselves if we are left to continue as we are?

Katz, I do not see any nations out there with a stronger moral fabric than America. The entire world has sunk into an immoral abyss. Look at the genocide happening around the globe.

Russia pretended capitolistic ways in order to gain a communist foothold here - its been going on for decades - Russia & China never had any intention of going our way - they only used our naivete to trick us. Now we are suddenly awakening to the truth that the Russians / Chinese are not our friends. They are friends one to another. They have been militarily building up while we have been dismantling for many years. Now they are trying to take the moral high ground to add insult to injury.

We have come to the point of such chaos in our thinking that we have bought into the lie that Russia has some stronger moral fabric than us. That China has some stronger moral fabric then us. Nothing could be further from the truth. Both of these nations have histories of horrific atrocities against their own people. Both nations have murdered tens of millions of their own citizens! Human rights violations / atrocities America ignored at her own peril when she made the decision to dismantle the industries of America in exchange for importing cheaper products from a communist nation.

We have funded our own demise by allowing ourselves to become indebted to Red China. They know we cannot pay it back. The Russians never gave up their plan to defeat the United States of America. It was never off the table. We only thought it was.

I've been thinking about how the Russians and Chinese could deny responsibility ( in the aftermath ) for a super EMP attack on the United States of America. How would they be able to confuse the rest of the world so that they wouldn't know it was them that invaded and destroyed America? The Super EMP would be the first thing they would launch. But the Russians are known for letting others do their dirty work so I believe the Iranian warship that is headed to America now could very well be used as the vessel that will one day launch a super EMP over America ( maritime borders are only 14 miles off usa coastline ) because they are being permitted to get within close enough range to do it. The word is the rocket tests Iran was launching 28 miles high were practice super EMP strikes.. It would only take one to completely disable our country. ( but they have to get close enough to our coastline to launch it. We are seeing for the first time in the history of the US - Iranian warships planning entry to maritime border US waters. Close enough to launch a super EMP without us knowing where in the world it came from. Sink that ship and its anybody's guess who did it. We'll have no way of telling. There is a purpose and a reason for everything. That news was a huge red flag warning.

This gives Iran "some part" in the military invasion of the USA while Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuala are part of the invasion - ground troops that would come across Mexican border after we were completely disabled. Russian troops are already inside the US. The numbers have varied wildly although it really doesn't matter the number... 6,000 to 8,000 Speznatz ( russian special forces ) could easily disable America. They will go after our infrastructure, power grids, water supply, in cities across the USA., it is quite a plan our enemy has plotted against us.

I believe whatever they are going to do it will be soon but first I think we are going to have a greater than 9/11 attack - why? Because in order for the Russians to rebound from this attack on the USA they are planning (eventually the world will find out ) they will have to make the world think the Muslims were the main culprits responsible for the slaughter of millions of Americans. They will say Iran launched the super EMP. Iran had terrorist cells planted inside US. Iran. Iran. Iran. How else will Russia regain Israels trust?

Russia must present herself as not only the new leader of Europe ( her plans are to colonize Europe and make it proxy of Russia and take control of the entire Middle East - Zhirinovsky's vision in Final March to the South ) but savior of Europe after she destroys the USA. How better than to orchestrate a coming clash between the original Europeans and the Muslims who live there now? Make sure the laws are favoring the Muslim communities until after America falls. Create as much conflict between Muslims and non Muslim Europeans as possible. Escalate fear by giving Muslims what they want in courts, govt decisions, sharia law etc. Put all non Muslim citizens in a state of fear - Kissinger said people will trade freedom for safety - what a plan, eh?

Could Soviet secret allies running the NGO's in Europe arrange such a thing? Of course they could. They have. The Muslims have been used by the communists as their "front", their cover.... after America falls they will be of no further use to the communists..

...communists always use front organizations, mysticism, etc religions are also useful tools in their hands - Communists like playing both sides. They did it during Hitlers rule - he came out of the nationalist party - not much diff between nazi & communist ideals - at the core - when America falls the tables will turn on Muslims world wide because it will be their recompense for the day of jihad they waged against America. Russia will play the part of the heroe who saved the world. When in reality Russia orchestrated the entire scenario from start to finish. Incredible, isn't it?

 

[Katzndogz]

In 20 - 25 years the United States will exist only as a geographical expression, the name for a land mass. The FORMER United States will be the same kind of historical expression as the former Soviet Union.

The liberals are so bad, so reprehensible, so degenerate and perverted that the end when it comes just won't be as bad as what we have. Are the Russians worse than democrats? Are the Chinese? No. The totalitarianism liberals would impose goes all the way back to Mao and Stalin. The peace and prospertity liberals promise is the peace and prosperity of Pol Pot with a ruling family that would exceed Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos.

If the liberal ship is not sinking, then it needs a few more holes drilled into the bottom of the hull.

 

[ogibillm]

the first example given in the article claims schools around the country are banning the american flag and the courts are backing them up - and yet the example cited has nothing to do with a ban on flags anywhere.

the article, and the premise, are extremely flawed.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I love my country and really don't want to live anywhere else. But, there are things happening that seriously bother me and shake my faith in the beauty and future of this land. So, reading the following article increases those worries.

16 Examples That Show The United States Has Become a Seriously Messed up Country

This Michael Snyder from The American Dream presents a chilling case with lots of links to back up his claims. All of them are worthy of consideration. However, who can argue with the following?

http://endoftheamericandream.com/wp...3/Aborted-Baby-Photo-by-drsuparna-460x346.jpg
Abortion is murder.

Read more @ 16 Examples That Show The United States Has Become A Seriously Messed Up Country

Just about everything in that "article" is bullshit propaganda.

Yes, the United States is messed up, but not for the reason that loon says. This country has been in decline since the 1960s, but many people simply haven't begun to notice until now.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The ship is not ‘sinking.’

To believe this makes one a partisan ideologue who is part of the problem.

Like you?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

the first example given in the article claims schools around the country are banning the american flag and the courts are backing them up - and yet the example cited has nothing to do with a ban on flags anywhere.

the article, and the premise, are extremely flawed.

Exactly. He's referring to the Ninth Circuit Court decision last week that said the school had the right to ban students from wearing shirts with the American flag on it during the Cinco de Mayo celebration because it was causing tensions among the student body.

While I disagree with the ruling, it is not even remotely close to what the author is claiming, hence he has no credibility and is just feeding the kind of propaganda that gullible reactionaries like the OP easily fall for.

 

[Autodidact_33]

I think abortion is a woman's issue. It is undeniable that a fetus is a form of life, but the right for a woman to chose is something that some hold sacred.

 

[FA_Q2]

I love my country and really don't want to live anywhere else. But, there are things happening that seriously bother me and shake my faith in the beauty and future of this land. So, reading the following article increases those worries.

16 Examples That Show The United States Has Become a Seriously Messed up Country



http://endoftheamericandream.com/wp...3/Aborted-Baby-Photo-by-drsuparna-460x346.jpg
Abortion is murder.

Read more @ 16 Examples That Show The United States Has Become A Seriously Messed Up Country

While I agree with the sentiment, I find the list supplied rather asinine.

Many are examples of isolated incidents or are taken out of context in a way that makes them rather meaningless.

There are a lot of examples that they could have pulled from that I think are much better and geared more too the breakdown of reason within this nation.

Hell, here in Washington they are now taxing the rain that falls on your land if you own a house. Taxing the rain...

I think that is a display on how absolutely ridiculous and (more importantly) desperate the government has become to control absolutely everything.

I agree that the list of supposed indicators is a joke. I disagree that we're in an irrevocable downward spiral. There are plenty of positive indicators all around that do not get the attention.

Irrevocable is almost never the case and certainly not the case here. As long as I retain the right of speech, vote and arms I cant see how something cannot be turned around. I think it is rather clear that the nation as a whole is headed in the wrong direction though and that the direction we are going seems to feed upon itself and go faster.
You might disagree with this but things like the PA, NSA and the constant state of war that we are in are not just small indicators. They are extreme in their very nature and constitute a huge shift in the public tolerance for a government gone bad all because of fear. And none of that even gets into how the government has become so divided.

Fear is NOT a reasonable value to drive policy but I think it is one of the more prevalent reasons that the government operates the way it does.

I would note that the list you mentioned in a later post seems to be off base as to the point of the thread though. That is a case of technology moving forward and has nothing to do with the government or the direction of the nation. Those same technologies are going to be available to Russia but I would not state that they are headed in a positive direction either.

 

[candycorn]

While I agree with the sentiment, I find the list supplied rather asinine.

Many are examples of isolated incidents or are taken out of context in a way that makes them rather meaningless.

There are a lot of examples that they could have pulled from that I think are much better and geared more too the breakdown of reason within this nation.

Hell, here in Washington they are now taxing the rain that falls on your land if you own a house. Taxing the rain...

I think that is a display on how absolutely ridiculous and (more importantly) desperate the government has become to control absolutely everything.

I agree that the list of supposed indicators is a joke. I disagree that we're in an irrevocable downward spiral. There are plenty of positive indicators all around that do not get the attention.

Irrevocable is almost never the case and certainly not the case here. As long as I retain the right of speech, vote and arms I cant see how something cannot be turned around. I think it is rather clear that the nation as a whole is headed in the wrong direction though and that the direction we are going seems to feed upon itself and go faster.
You might disagree with this but things like the PA, NSA and the constant state of war that we are in are not just small indicators. They are extreme in their very nature and constitute a huge shift in the public tolerance for a government gone bad all because of fear. And none of that even gets into how the government has become so divided.

Fear is NOT a reasonable value to drive policy but I think it is one of the more prevalent reasons that the government operates the way it does.

I would note that the list you mentioned in a later post seems to be off base as to the point of the thread though. That is a case of technology moving forward and has nothing to do with the government or the direction of the nation. Those same technologies are going to be available to Russia but I would not state that they are headed in a positive direction either.

It has everything to do with the government!!!!

Very little of our 1930's era technology was uniquely ours. The Soviets (now Russians) had access to flight, automobiles, teleconnectivity, etc... They even beat us into space. What did they do with it? Not much compared to us. Why? The governmental systems we have in place. As imperfect as it is, it is still the envy of many other places--not all. But when you look at the nations that have more functional governments, they lack plentiful natural resources. Where there is sufficient and abundant national resources, they lack the freedoms that inspire their peoples; one way I heard it put by noted commentator Thomas J. Friedman, "They have the ability to fly planes into buildings but not the ability to make them."

I guess the point of the naysayers is that we have a government that stymies the development that we once experienced and as a result, the rate of that development is retarded? Okay...maybe or maybe not. Colossal leaps that propel mankind forward don't come about in every lifetime. Connecting the dots on the human timeline from the invention of the wheel, to the dark ages, to the Reformation, to the age of exploration to the industrial revolution to the space age...we're talking generations. Hopefully technology will create a tidal-wave of new inventions and jump-start new ages going forward.

It may happen; it may not.

I would submit that in every one of the ages above, there was a group of people that held some sort of prophecy that the end was near and that somehow there was a collective descent. The funny thing about opportunity costs is that you never know what they are with any complete certainty. So perhaps we should be further along on the timeline than we are. But the important thing is that the timeline is before us. I choose to think that we're better than we were and will be better tomorrow than we are today.

 

[Mac1958]

I think abortion is a woman's issue. It is undeniable that a fetus is a form of life, but the right for a woman to chose is something that some hold sacred.

I agree, but here's the problem: There are many pro-choicers who refuse to even acknowledge the point you've made, the fact that a fetus is human life. My guess is that they don't want to give an inch on this topic, I suspect because they view such honesty as capitulation (the standard thought process of ideologues). How can we have an honest conversation on the topic if they can't admit to something so obvious?

The pro-lifers' argument is clear and straightforward: You're killing innocent human life. And I can fully understand and appreciate that position. But I think as a culture we're okay if abortions are, in fact, safe and rare. That's the type of macro decision that cultures make. The problem (as always) is that both ends of this issue are approaching it as if they have to win 100%. And that just ain't gonna happen.

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[Luddly Neddite]

Pick some headlines from any century and the news you cite might seem rather trivial. Did you hear about the Civil War? Now there was some serious danger to the survival of the nation. A little perspective may calm your apocalyptic fears.

This frightened a lot of people who considered it "unnatural".

The list is very long. Take a deep breath.

This is why I'm not terribly concerned about the damage the tee pottiers are doing. There has never been a time when we were not fighting over the very basic direction our country is headed in. We have survived much worse and we'll survive this.

I suspect the internet gives the impression that things are worse than they really are. Suddenly, everyone has a voice, including people like Alex Jones, limbaugh and the one quoted in the op.

I don't know the actual number but it seems the internet is 99% opinion and 1% fact.