The Rise and Fall of the American Empire

[JWBooth]

We used to be the world's leading importer of raw materials....and the world's leading exporter of finished goods. This is now reversed. We export raw materials and import finished goods.

That reversal is the primary cause of our economic troubles. Simply put....we need to make shit. Buying and selling it is not good enough.

My vote goes to the candidate who AT LEAST gives lip service to the need to reverse this trend again.

My vote does not go to the candidate who does not give a shit about American manufacturing.

To re-introduce manufacturing wages are going to have to be world competitive and the safety net can no longer be a mattress.

 

[LoneLaugher]

We used to be the world's leading importer of raw materials....and the world's leading exporter of finished goods. This is now reversed. We export raw materials and import finished goods.

That reversal is the primary cause of our economic troubles. Simply put....we need to make shit. Buying and selling it is not good enough.

My vote goes to the candidate who AT LEAST gives lip service to the need to reverse this trend again.

My vote does not go to the candidate who does not give a shit about American manufacturing.

To re-introduce manufacturing wages are going to have to be world competitive and the safety net can no longer be a mattress.

No...all we need to to is protect our manufacturers with trade policies that do not incentivize the exporting of jobs.

The safety net as mattress analogy is tired....and the safety net has nothing to do with regaining our manufacturing base. That was a stupid thing to add onto your comment.

 

[jon_berzerk]

We used to be the world's leading importer of raw materials....and the world's leading exporter of finished goods. This is now reversed. We export raw materials and import finished goods.

That reversal is the primary cause of our economic troubles. Simply put....we need to make shit. Buying and selling it is not good enough.

My vote goes to the candidate who AT LEAST gives lip service to the need to reverse this trend again.

My vote does not go to the candidate who does not give a shit about American manufacturing.

We used to be the world's leading importer of raw materials....and the world's leading exporter of finished goods.

we could do one better if we pumped our own oil

and mined our own mines

 

[editec]

The USA is dying but the disease that is killing it is NOT too much democracy leading to poor people getting too much.

One either has to be a liar or a damned fool who is too stupid to LOOK AT THE NUMBERS to understand that.

 

[LoneLaugher]

We used to be the world's leading importer of raw materials....and the world's leading exporter of finished goods. This is now reversed. We export raw materials and import finished goods.

That reversal is the primary cause of our economic troubles. Simply put....we need to make shit. Buying and selling it is not good enough.

My vote goes to the candidate who AT LEAST gives lip service to the need to reverse this trend again.

My vote does not go to the candidate who does not give a shit about American manufacturing.

We used to be the world's leading importer of raw materials....and the world's leading exporter of finished goods.

we could do one better if we pumped our own oil

and mined our own mines

We export oil.

We will soon be the world's second largest oil producer. Yes.....under this President's watch......we are increasing production. Reversing the trend left by the previous administration.

United States Crude Oil Production by Year (Thousand Barrels per Day)

Next.

 

[zeke]

One of our largest exports now is scrap steel. Isn't that special. I made an extra 200 dollars off a job scrapping the aluminum this week.

Scrappers are to days job creators. Just not our jobs. Except for the scrap industry. And they are doing real good. Paying 230 a ton for clean steel. That's part of the reason I drive a truck. You never know when you will see 25 dollars lying by the side of the road.

 

[Peterf]

.

A tax deduction is not 'free stuff'. A tax deduction is what the government does not take of what we earn. It takes nothing out of anybody else's pocket; it just allows us to keep more of what we worked for and is rightfully ours.

"Free stuff" is what you did nothing to earn but you receive while somebody else pays for it out of their pocket.

There is a difference between these two things for those with the ability to reason and understand.

Your problem Foxfyre is that do not understand that every cent you earn actually belongs to the government. If you are very very good they might give you some of it back. But there are lots of other people with more claim to your money than you. Like all those people who even if they hear the word 'work' spoken very quietly have palpatations. Have you no empathy?

 

[Mac1958]

Your problem Foxfyre is that do not understand that every cent you earn actually belongs to the government. If you are very very good they might give you some of it back.

I know you're being sarcastic, but there are a lot of people who look at things that way.

Literally.

.

 

[JWBooth]

We used to be the world's leading importer of raw materials....and the world's leading exporter of finished goods. This is now reversed. We export raw materials and import finished goods.

That reversal is the primary cause of our economic troubles. Simply put....we need to make shit. Buying and selling it is not good enough.

My vote goes to the candidate who AT LEAST gives lip service to the need to reverse this trend again.

My vote does not go to the candidate who does not give a shit about American manufacturing.

To re-introduce manufacturing wages are going to have to be world competitive and the safety net can no longer be a mattress.

No...all we need to to is protect our manufacturers with trade policies that do not incentivize the exporting of jobs.

The safety net as mattress analogy is tired....and the safety net has nothing to do with regaining our manufacturing base. That was a stupid thing to add onto your comment.

Smoot Hawley on steroids...that's the ticket.

 

[Peterf]

Your problem Foxfyre is that do not understand that every cent you earn actually belongs to the government. If you are very very good they might give you some of it back.

I know you're being sarcastic, but there are a lot of people who look at things that way.

Literally.

.

You don't need to tell me that. I live in Sweden, the country with the highest percentage tax take. The money goes mostly on lavish benefits for immigrants who show their appreciation by torching schools and vehicles. And stoning ambulances driven by two of my paramedic nephews.

 

[zeke]

Your problem Foxfyre is that do not understand that every cent you earn actually belongs to the government. If you are very very good they might give you some of it back.

I know you're being sarcastic, but there are a lot of people who look at things that way.

Literally.

.

How many Mac? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Foxfyre]

Your problem Foxfyre is that do not understand that every cent you earn actually belongs to the government. If you are very very good they might give you some of it back.

I know you're being sarcastic, but there are a lot of people who look at things that way.

Literally.

.

You don't need to tell me that. I live in Sweden, the country with the highest percentage tax take. The money goes mostly on lavish benefits for immigrants who show their appreciation by torching schools and vehicles. And stoning ambulances driven by two of my paramedic nephews.

For sure a lower percentage of Swedes are dependent on social welfare to survive than here in the USA, but nevertheless, a high degree of dependence on government provided social services provided with all those high taxes is not producing a happier population. From what I am reading, children raised by single parents are as disadvantaged there as they are here; teenage depression and suicde rates are on the rise; and welfare rolls are expanding. (You are there and I am here so if what I am reading is wrong, I'm sure you will correct me.)

Consumer Prices in Sweden are 39.26% higher than in United States
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Sweden are 26.61% higher than in United States
Rent Prices in Sweden are 2.72% lower than in United States
Restaurant Prices in Sweden are 54.69% higher than in United States
Groceries Prices in Sweden are 26.81% higher than in United States
Local Purchasing Power in Sweden is 24.15% lower than in United States
Cost Of Living Comparison Between United States And Sweden

Evenso most Swedes believe themselves to be happier than the average American. So it really comes down to what floats anybody's boat.

I wonder if most Americans consider themselves to be happier than most Europeans?

The reason this applies to the thread topic is the question as the government takes over more and more control of how we are allowed to live our lives, are we a happier, more contented people because of that?

 

[RandallFlagg]

Your problem Foxfyre is that do not understand that every cent you earn actually belongs to the government. If you are very very good they might give you some of it back.

I know you're being sarcastic, but there are a lot of people who look at things that way.

Literally.

.

Yep. And that's what sometimes keeps me awake at night. In another thread, on this very forum, some jackwagon muses that "One Party Control" might be "preferable" over the two-party system. There is no way to combat idiots such as these. Unfortunately, the "prevailing wisdom" in America is changing rapidly and beginning to embrace those same thoughts...

 

[Contumacious]

Your problem Foxfyre is that do not understand that every cent you earn actually belongs to the government. If you are very very good they might give you some of it back.

I know you're being sarcastic, but there are a lot of people who look at things that way.

Literally.

.

Yep. And that's what sometimes keeps me awake at night. In another thread, on this very forum, some jackwagon muses that "One Party Control" might be "preferable" over the two-party system. There is no way to combat idiots such as these. Unfortunately, the "prevailing wisdom" in America is changing rapidly and beginning to embrace those same thoughts...

Whether you like or not that is precisely what we have. The Republican surrender caucus has merged with the democrats.

.

 

[Foxfyre]

A tax deduction is not 'free stuff'. A tax deduction is what the government does not take of what we earn. It takes nothing out of anybody else's pocket; it just allows us to keep more of what we worked for and is rightfully ours.

"Free stuff" is what you did nothing to earn but you receive while somebody else pays for it out of their pocket.

There is a difference between these two things for those with the ability to reason and understand.

Your problem Foxfyre is that do not understand that every cent you earn actually belongs to the government. If you are very very good they might give you some of it back. But there are lots of other people with more claim to your money than you. Like all those people who even if they hear the word 'work' spoken very quietly have palpatations. Have you no empathy?

Yep, that's my problem all right. LOL. (Hint to the clueless here: Peter is using tongue-in-cheek satire to make a point, and very effectively I might add.)

I have this strange love of liberty and the desire to have options, choices, opportunities, and freedom to chart my own destiny and I am fully prepared to accept the consequences of my choices if they turn out less than what I had hoped.

Too many of our friends here, apparently on your side of the big pond and in our world, don't have any sense of unalienable rights among which are property, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to name some biggees from a long list. Somehow they have grasped the concept that because the government prints the money, it belongs to the government. And it isn't fair that some have more of it than others.

The goverment for these people becomes a facsimile of Marx's collective--everybody owns everything and it is to be divided up and disributed according to who needs it. And it isn't right that some have more than others. It IS right that the government takes from the haves and distributes that to the have nots.

And THAT is where the corruption of 'free stuff' has been decimating and weakening us as a people for a long time now. A concept that those who earn it have no right to keep it, and those who do not earn it have a right to a share of it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I know you're being sarcastic, but there are a lot of people who look at things that way.

Literally.

.

You don't need to tell me that. I live in Sweden, the country with the highest percentage tax take. The money goes mostly on lavish benefits for immigrants who show their appreciation by torching schools and vehicles. And stoning ambulances driven by two of my paramedic nephews.

For sure a lower percentage of Swedes are dependent on social welfare to survive than here in the USA, but nevertheless, a high degree of dependence on government provided social services provided with all those high taxes is not producing a happier population. From what I am reading, children raised by single parents are as disadvantaged there as they are here; teenage depression and suicde rates are on the rise; and welfare rolls are expanding. (You are there and I am here so if what I am reading is wrong, I'm sure you will correct me.)

Consumer Prices in Sweden are 39.26% higher than in United States
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Sweden are 26.61% higher than in United States
Rent Prices in Sweden are 2.72% lower than in United States
Restaurant Prices in Sweden are 54.69% higher than in United States
Groceries Prices in Sweden are 26.81% higher than in United States
Local Purchasing Power in Sweden is 24.15% lower than in United States
Cost Of Living Comparison Between United States And Sweden

Evenso most Swedes believe themselves to be happier than the average American. So it really comes down to what floats anybody's boat.

I wonder if most Americans consider themselves to be happier than most Europeans?

The reason this applies to the thread topic is the question as the government takes over more and more control of how we are allowed to live our lives, are we a happier, more contented people because of that?

You left out several items. Among them...average wages, health care prices and education prices.

 

[Foxfyre]

You don't need to tell me that. I live in Sweden, the country with the highest percentage tax take. The money goes mostly on lavish benefits for immigrants who show their appreciation by torching schools and vehicles. And stoning ambulances driven by two of my paramedic nephews.

For sure a lower percentage of Swedes are dependent on social welfare to survive than here in the USA, but nevertheless, a high degree of dependence on government provided social services provided with all those high taxes is not producing a happier population. From what I am reading, children raised by single parents are as disadvantaged there as they are here; teenage depression and suicde rates are on the rise; and welfare rolls are expanding. (You are there and I am here so if what I am reading is wrong, I'm sure you will correct me.)

Consumer Prices in Sweden are 39.26% higher than in United States
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Sweden are 26.61% higher than in United States
Rent Prices in Sweden are 2.72% lower than in United States
Restaurant Prices in Sweden are 54.69% higher than in United States
Groceries Prices in Sweden are 26.81% higher than in United States
Local Purchasing Power in Sweden is 24.15% lower than in United States
Cost Of Living Comparison Between United States And Sweden

Evenso most Swedes believe themselves to be happier than the average American. So it really comes down to what floats anybody's boat.

I wonder if most Americans consider themselves to be happier than most Europeans?

The reason this applies to the thread topic is the question as the government takes over more and more control of how we are allowed to live our lives, are we a happier, more contented people because of that?

You left out several items. Among them...average wages, health care prices and education prices.

Comparing apples and oranges since the taxation system in Sweden is so different from our own--in America you have federal, state county, and local tax structures, but Sweden overall takes more in taxes than almost any other place.

Without vouching for the authenticity of the information since I have neither the time or inclination to check it out right now, this was written by an economics PhD in 2007:

If Sweden left the EU and joined the U.S. we would be the poorest state of America. Using fixed prices and purchasing power parity adjusted data, the median household income in Sweden in the late 1990s was the equivalent of $26,800 compared with a median of $39,400 for U.S. households - before taxes.

And then we should remember that Sweden has the world´s highest taxes. The Swedish Research Institute of Trade, which conducted the study, underlined that African Americans, who have the lowest income in the United States, now have a higher standard of living than an ordinary Swedish household.

Between 1870-1970, Swedish growth was the highest in the world, next to Japan's. In 1970 Sweden was the fourth richest among the OECD-members, after USA, Luxembourg and Switzerland.

After more than 30 years of high taxation and an expanding welfare state, Sweden is not the 4th richest OECD-country any longer, but the 15th. This hurts the least well off most. Between 1980 and 1999, the gross income of Sweden's poorest households increased by just over 6% while the poorest in the U.S. enjoyed a three time larger increase. - See more at: CARPE DIEM: If Sweden Left The EU and Joined the US, It Would Be the Poorest U.S. State, Below Even Mississippi

 

[Peterf]

I know you're being sarcastic, but there are a lot of people who look at things that way.

Literally.

.

You don't need to tell me that. I live in Sweden, the country with the highest percentage tax take. The money goes mostly on lavish benefits for immigrants who show their appreciation by torching schools and vehicles. And stoning ambulances driven by two of my paramedic nephews.

For sure a lower percentage of Swedes are dependent on social welfare to survive than here in the USA, but nevertheless, a high degree of dependence on government provided social services provided with all those high taxes is not producing a happier population. From what I am reading, children raised by single parents are as disadvantaged there as they are here; teenage depression and suicde rates are on the rise; and welfare rolls are expanding. (You are there and I am here so if what I am reading is wrong, I'm sure you will correct me.)

Consumer Prices in Sweden are 39.26% higher than in United States
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Sweden are 26.61% higher than in United States
Rent Prices in Sweden are 2.72% lower than in United States
Restaurant Prices in Sweden are 54.69% higher than in United States
Groceries Prices in Sweden are 26.81% higher than in United States
Local Purchasing Power in Sweden is 24.15% lower than in United States
Cost Of Living Comparison Between United States And Sweden

Evenso most Swedes believe themselves to be happier than the average American. So it really comes down to what floats anybody's boat.

I wonder if most Americans consider themselves to be happier than most Europeans?

The reason this applies to the thread topic is the question as the government takes over more and more control of how we are allowed to live our lives, are we a happier, more contented people because of that?

International comparisons are notoriously difficult and often misleading. Questions like "Are you happy?" come out differently in different languages. And get different answers. No Frenchman, highly individualistic, would ever admit that he is content with anything. Ultra conformist Swedes are more reluctant to complain.

What is clear is that Sweden's wealth relative to what it was in previous decades is declining and lavish welfare can no longer be afforded. This is accentuated by many years of uncontrolled immigration, largely from places like Somalia. There are now large numbers of people here quite unable to integrate - even if they wished to try - who are entirely supported by taxpayers.

There is wide acceptance among Swedes that standards in education and health care have fallen and are continuing to fall.

The price comparisons in the stats feel about right. I have personal experience of store prices in Canada (where I will be in two weeks time) and they are, on balance, lower than those here.

 

[Contumacious]

[

What is clear is that Sweden's wealth relative to what it was in previous decades is declining and lavish welfare can no longer be afforded.

That is correct.

The swedes have fared better because they are NOT a warfare state. and

the work ethic ethic still prevails there

.

 

[Foxfyre]

You don't need to tell me that. I live in Sweden, the country with the highest percentage tax take. The money goes mostly on lavish benefits for immigrants who show their appreciation by torching schools and vehicles. And stoning ambulances driven by two of my paramedic nephews.

For sure a lower percentage of Swedes are dependent on social welfare to survive than here in the USA, but nevertheless, a high degree of dependence on government provided social services provided with all those high taxes is not producing a happier population. From what I am reading, children raised by single parents are as disadvantaged there as they are here; teenage depression and suicde rates are on the rise; and welfare rolls are expanding. (You are there and I am here so if what I am reading is wrong, I'm sure you will correct me.)

Consumer Prices in Sweden are 39.26% higher than in United States
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Sweden are 26.61% higher than in United States
Rent Prices in Sweden are 2.72% lower than in United States
Restaurant Prices in Sweden are 54.69% higher than in United States
Groceries Prices in Sweden are 26.81% higher than in United States
Local Purchasing Power in Sweden is 24.15% lower than in United States
Cost Of Living Comparison Between United States And Sweden

Evenso most Swedes believe themselves to be happier than the average American. So it really comes down to what floats anybody's boat.

I wonder if most Americans consider themselves to be happier than most Europeans?

The reason this applies to the thread topic is the question as the government takes over more and more control of how we are allowed to live our lives, are we a happier, more contented people because of that?

International comparisons are notoriously difficult and often misleading. Questions like "Are you happy?" come out differently in different languages. And get different answers. No Frenchman, highly individualistic, would ever admit that he is content with anything. Ultra conformist Swedes are more reluctant to complain.

What is clear is that Sweden's wealth relative to what it was in previous decades is declining and lavish welfare can no longer be afforded. This is accentuated by many years of uncontrolled immigration, largely from places like Somalia. There are now large numbers of people here quite unable to integrate - even if they wished to try - who are entirely supported by taxpayers.

There is wide acceptance among Swedes that standards in education and health care have fallen and are continuing to fall.

The price comparisons in the stats feel about right. I have personal experience of store prices in Canada (where I will be in two weeks time) and they are, on balance, lower than those here.

Thanks for that response. Like I say, you are there and I'm not, and the eye witness is generally more reliable than one forming notions and speculating from a distance.

You are absolutely right that a tiny country with a highly homogenous people sharing a common culture and a population about the size of one U.S. state is not really comparable to a nation as broad and diverse as we are.

But one thing the USA and Sweden (as well as Greece, Spain, Italy et al) do all have in common is that high taxes and more government control and meddling in all aspects of life were great at the beginning, but could not be sustained. And all are now suffering under the addiction to free stuff that cannot continue at its former rate without severe negative consequences, and ALL are seeing an erosion of their common cultures, quality of life, and standards of living.