The Right To Destroy Jewish History

[Shusha]

The fact that you disconnect the Jewish people's wish to live in and have self-determination in their own national homeland demonstrates the source of your arguments as anti-semitism.

Palestinians have the right to self-determination to. And you have no right to keep that from them.

No one is preventing them from having self-determination. Israel is only preventing them from having the sort of self-determination which is eliminationist and violent towards Israel. Israel is entirely justified in doing so.

If the Arab Palestinians want full self-determination in more territory than they already have, they must stop attacking their neighbor and recognize their neighbors existence and equal right to territory and self-determination. The way through to that is peace.

I know that you are going to argue that the Arab Palestinians have every right to use force and violence. I agree. They do. (In fact, I'd argue that their use of force and violence in belligerent attacks on the sovereign country of Israel is PROOF of their existing self-determination.) The consequences of that use of force and violence is repression of force and violence by Israel.

If they want to use their self-determination for building an economy, for trade, for peaceful relations, for mutual benefit then they should get on with it.

And I know you are going to argue next some version of "Jews are evil" and "Arabs are just responding to Jewish evil". That is just your antisemitism showing.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Right To Destroy Jewish History
※→ JoeB131, et al,

Sure there is... One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

When Osama Bin Laden was killing Russians in Afghanistan before the could teach girls how to read, Ronnie Ray-gun called him a "Freedom Fighter". When he turned around and started killing Americans, he became a "Terrorist". Terrorism isn't a philosophy, it's a tactic. A tactic we are just fine with when used against people we don't like,

(COMMENT)

We are not here to debate whether or not a person like Osama bin Laden (ObL) or Arab Palestinians (Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters) who takes part in these activities is there a justification. There is no case to support:

✪ "Criminal acts" directed against the citizenry and general public of US or Israel, intented or calculated to create the condition of "terror" appear to be intended—

■ to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
■ to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
■ to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping;​

.......................................................................OR

✪ Resistance movement against Occupation Power:

■ Cases that were solely intended to harm the Occupying Power,
■ Cases of seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them,
■ Cases of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power,​

All these activities (both above and below) are punishable under international law.

Being involved in any way is just as criminal:

✪ Conspiricy to commit any such act with the intend to spread terror among the civilian population.
✪ Any incitement (direct or indirect) to induce any such act.
✪ Participation in any such act.
✪ Assistance given towards the commission of any such act.​

Bullshit. Look who instigated the Iraq War.. hint, it was a bunch of Jews in Washington. Every last one of our allies told us it was a terrible idea, but Mr. Jew wanted Saddam gone, and we have been involved in that mess ever since.

(COMMENT)

The Iraq War (2003-2011) was a matter of nuclear weapons, delivery systems, and contraband. "Mr. Jew" (as you name the faceless) had nothing to do with is. The availability of a launch vehicle, programmable navigation system, medium-range ballistic missile (MRBM) delivery platform to Iraq would have been a threat to all the regional governments.

Whether or not it was a "terrible idea" is not for us to say (although I might be inclined to agree), it was executed very poorly.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Billo_Really]

Palestinians are Arab Muslims who only want Jews to live under them with no self determination, as they themselves have said many times for the past 100 years.

You are not going to change the truth which is...some Christans and Muslims are never going to accept that Jews have the same rights as they have, especially that of all determination on any part of their own ancient homeland.

Own up to it and it will be one step forward in your backward life.

Are you paid to say that garbage?

 

[Billo_Really]

Zionism is definitely an integral part of Judaism and Jewish history.

No its not. Judaism is a religion; Zionism is a political movement.

And in fact eradicating those who put the Swastika on their flag is the only rational response by the descendants of the Holocaust survivors.

Not when they are acting like the ones who had the Swastika's on their flag.

 

[Shusha]

No its not. Judaism is a religion; Zionism is a political movement.

The Jewish people, which represent a vast and comprehensive and ancient culture of which religion is only a part, have formed a liberation movement. Its no different than dozens of other liberation movements. Except only the Jewish people are subjected to having their liberation movement rejected on principle.

 

[Billo_Really]

No one is preventing them from having self-determination. Israel is only preventing them from having the sort of self-determination which is eliminationist and violent towards Israel. Israel is entirely justified in doing so.

Do you listen to yourself talk?

"...No one is preventing them from having self-determination..."

"...Israel is only preventing them from having the sort of self-determination..."​

You are a walking paradox of nonsense.

If the Arab Palestinians want full self-determination in more territory than they already have, they must stop attacking their neighbor and recognize their neighbors existence and equal right to territory and self-determination. The way through to that is peace.

You're starting the clock in the wrong place. You attacked them first! And you need to recognize their existence, before they recognize yours.

I know that you are going to argue that the Arab Palestinians have every right to use force and violence. I agree. They do. (In fact, I'd argue that their use of force and violence in belligerent attacks on the sovereign country of Israel is PROOF of their existing self-determination.) The consequences of that use of force and violence is repression of force and violence by Israel.

The West Bank and Gaza is not sovereign Israeli territory.

If they want to use their self-determination for building an economy, for trade, for peaceful relations, for mutual benefit then they should get on with it.

You can't build an economy when Israel won't allow imports and exports.

And I know you are going to argue next some version of "Jews are evil" and "Arabs are just responding to Jewish evil". That is just your antisemitism showing.

If you didn't drag the Jews into this, you'd have nothing to say.

 

[Billo_Really]

The Jewish people, which represent a vast and comprehensive and ancient culture of which religion is only a part, have formed a liberation movement. Its no different than dozens of other liberation movements. Except only the Jewish people are subjected to having their liberation movement rejected on principle.

You just keep making shit up because you can't bear to face the alternative, that you made the bed you are sleeping in.

 

[Shusha]

The Jewish people, which represent a vast and comprehensive and ancient culture of which religion is only a part, have formed a liberation movement. Its no different than dozens of other liberation movements. Except only the Jewish people are subjected to having their liberation movement rejected on principle.

You just keep making shit up because you can't bear to face the alternative, that you made the bed you are sleeping in.

I'm making up the idea of a Jewish liberation movement?

 

[Shusha]

No one is preventing them from having self-determination. Israel is only preventing them from having the sort of self-determination which is eliminationist and violent towards Israel. Israel is entirely justified in doing so.

Do you listen to yourself talk?

"...No one is preventing them from having self-determination..."

"...Israel is only preventing them from having the sort of self-determination..."​

You are a walking paradox of nonsense.

I know EXACTLY what I am saying. And so do you. And there is no contradiction or paradox here. Self-determination of both peoples is the point.

If the self-determination of the Arab Palestinians requires the elimination of Jewish self-determination in their own historic homeland then that Arab self-determination has to be restricted to where it won't harm Jewish self-determination.

No one is preventing the sort of self-determination of the Arab Palestinians which celebrates an equal and respected Jewish self-determination. The problem is that the Arab Palestinians haven't found that yet. They should get on it.

 

[Shusha]

You're starting the clock in the wrong place. You attacked them first! And you need to recognize their existence, before they recognize yours.

You are keeping the clock in the wrong place. With assumed mutual recognition (Israel's demonstrated by her withdrawal, Hamas' not demonstrated at all yet), there is no conflict between Gaza and Israel. Be clear. There IS NO fundamental conflict between Israel and Gaza if the assumption is that Gaza is the place for the self-determination of the Gazan people and Israel is the place for the self-determination of the Jewish people. The territory of each is defined and agreed upon. The border is clear and defined an agreed upon. There is nothing to fight about. Literally, NOTHING to fight about.

Gaza wants the blockade to end. Israel wants the violence across her borders to end. BOTH people can have what they want. The only obstacle to having what they want is the end of violence. The end of violence and "resistance" is the solution to the problem for both peoples.

So what does that look like in real life? It does not mean that Israel stops monitoring and responding. It means Gaza stops inciting and instigating. No more resistance. No more protests. No more rockets. No more approaching the fence. No fishing outside the zones. It means Gaza just stopping the violence.

 

[Shusha]

You can't build an economy when Israel won't allow imports and exports.

Patently not true. But...

How do you "get" Israel to allow imports and exports? Here's an idea. How about peace?

 

[JoeB131]

Good for you that you are an Atheist !!!!
The hundreds or thousands, or Millions of Atheists who come from the same world, god or no god, of defaming and feeling the need to put the Jews in their places.

Again, Congratulations !!!!

It is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS where Jews, Indians, Kurds, or any other people has decided to move to in the world, at any time in history. But you absolutely MUST make it your RIGHT to tell Jews were they should be.

Well, yeah, when the Jews insist the rest of us need to subsidize their religious fantasies and ask that American boys come home in body bags so they can play "God Loves Me the Very Best", it really is my business to say no.

Land conquered by the Arabs from the Jews, is still and always has been Jewish land. The Muslims themselves acknowledge that in their holy books, after they invaded and conquered the land.
Today's Arab Muslims "Palestinians" want any of that forgotten so that they can demand the land for them.

Um. No. Here's what happened. The Jews were just ONE GROUP that lived on that land, who were a constant pain the ass for the Romans until the Romans got sick of their shit and dispersed them. The Arabs have lived there for 1500 years.... except when dealing with the occasional crusaders..

That some Europeans who've bought into the religion that used to be practiced there doesn't really give them a right to that land.

You erase the Jewish people and replace them with another, separate distinct people so that you can maintain the illusion of being "fair" or "objective", but all you have created is an elaborate mental justification for denying the Jewish people the same standards you would apply to other people.

They are a distinct people. They don't speak Aramaic, they don't practice the religion the way the people in the first century did. They practice a version of it which are just as bastardized as Christianity and Islam are.

And on top of ALL that, and assuming you are an American of European descent living in the US, do you support and encourage the First Nations Peoples of the Americas in violently resisting you and regaining their territory back? If this is not your objective standard for all peoples, but only applied to the special case of the Arab Palestinians, then the source of this is also anti-semitism.

I think America has a lot of racial problems to fix... the people we stole land from, the people we kidnapped to work the land so we didn't have to... and you know what, if you read my writing on other threads about these issues, I think those things should be fixed.

All that said, these things happened centuries ago... there has to be a time limit on them.

And we can readily tell it is a mental justification by that fact that, by any standard of measurement you care to use, the Jewish people are the same people as those who have been present on the territory for more than three thousand years. They share the same language, the same religion, the same prayers, the same life celebrations, the same history, the same texts, the same system of laws, the same rituals, the same clothing.

Except they don't. They spoke Yiddish, a corrupt version of German, before moving to Palestine. They don't stone their daughters for not being virgins. They tolerate homosexuals. If you want to use religious excuses, frankly, the Muslims are closer to following the (barbaric) laws of Moses than the Jews are.

 

[JoeB131]

We are not here to debate whether or not a person like Osama bin Laden (ObL) or Arab Palestinians (Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters) who takes part in these activities is there a justification. There is no case to support:

All these activities (both above and below) are punishable under international law.

Being involved in any way is just as criminal:

Again, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. You don't think that organized armies do things that are downright criminal? We killed 3 million Vietnamese, and not one of our leaders got arrested for a war crime. Lt. Calley spent one year under house arrest, and that was it.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Good for you that you are an Atheist !!!!
The hundreds or thousands, or Millions of Atheists who come from the same world, god or no god, of defaming and feeling the need to put the Jews in their places.

Again, Congratulations !!!!

It is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS where Jews, Indians, Kurds, or any other people has decided to move to in the world, at any time in history. But you absolutely MUST make it your RIGHT to tell Jews were they should be.

Well, yeah, when the Jews insist the rest of us need to subsidize their religious fantasies and ask that American boys come home in body bags so they can play "God Loves Me the Very Best", it really is my business to say no.

Land conquered by the Arabs from the Jews, is still and always has been Jewish land. The Muslims themselves acknowledge that in their holy books, after they invaded and conquered the land.
Today's Arab Muslims "Palestinians" want any of that forgotten so that they can demand the land for them.

Um. No. Here's what happened. The Jews were just ONE GROUP that lived on that land, who were a constant pain the ass for the Romans until the Romans got sick of their shit and dispersed them. The Arabs have lived there for 1500 years.... except when dealing with the occasional crusaders..

That some Europeans who've bought into the religion that used to be practiced there doesn't really give them a right to that land.

You erase the Jewish people and replace them with another, separate distinct people so that you can maintain the illusion of being "fair" or "objective", but all you have created is an elaborate mental justification for denying the Jewish people the same standards you would apply to other people.

They are a distinct people. They don't speak Aramaic, they don't practice the religion the way the people in the first century did. They practice a version of it which are just as bastardized as Christianity and Islam are.

And on top of ALL that, and assuming you are an American of European descent living in the US, do you support and encourage the First Nations Peoples of the Americas in violently resisting you and regaining their territory back? If this is not your objective standard for all peoples, but only applied to the special case of the Arab Palestinians, then the source of this is also anti-semitism.

I think America has a lot of racial problems to fix... the people we stole land from, the people we kidnapped to work the land so we didn't have to... and you know what, if you read my writing on other threads about these issues, I think those things should be fixed.

All that said, these things happened centuries ago... there has to be a time limit on them.

And we can readily tell it is a mental justification by that fact that, by any standard of measurement you care to use, the Jewish people are the same people as those who have been present on the territory for more than three thousand years. They share the same language, the same religion, the same prayers, the same life celebrations, the same history, the same texts, the same system of laws, the same rituals, the same clothing.

Except they don't. They spoke Yiddish, a corrupt version of German, before moving to Palestine. They don't stone their daughters for not being virgins. They tolerate homosexuals. If you want to use religious excuses, frankly, the Muslims are closer to following the (barbaric) laws of Moses than the Jews are.

Your conspiracy theories are flying off the shelves.

There are no American troops fighting in Israel FOR Israel and coming home in body bags.

It is funny that you continue to insist in the Jewish people being "dispersed" from their home by the Romans, when the Byzantine found plenty of Jews living there AFTER the Roman Empire crumbled and they took over, and so did the Muslim Kurds and then the Arabs when they invaded in the 7th century.

See what keeps flying off the shelves from your mind?
I would change stores and get better products for your own sake.

Never mind the rest of the spoiled or broken merchandise you insist in trying to sell here.

 

[JoeB131]

Your conspiracy theories are flying off the shelves.

There are no American troops fighting in Israel FOR Israel and coming home in body bags.

Right. So all those wars we've been fighting in the Middle East for the last 30 years... those were figments of our imaginations.

Funny, we never fought wars in the Middle East before the Zionists took over our government.

It is funny that you continue to insist in the Jewish people being "dispersed" from their home by the Romans, when the Byzantine found plenty of Jews living there AFTER the Roman Empire crumbled and they took over, and so did the Muslim Kurds and then the Arabs when they invaded in the 7th century.

Then why were they all in Europe after that.. speaking a European language?

 

[rylah]

Your conspiracy theories are flying off the shelves.

There are no American troops fighting in Israel FOR Israel and coming home in body bags.

Right. So all those wars we've been fighting in the Middle East for the last 30 years... those were figments of our imaginations.

Funny, we never fought wars in the Middle East before the Zionists took over our government.

It is funny that you continue to insist in the Jewish people being "dispersed" from their home by the Romans, when the Byzantine found plenty of Jews living there AFTER the Roman Empire crumbled and they took over, and so did the Muslim Kurds and then the Arabs when they invaded in the 7th century.

Then why were they all in Europe after that.. speaking a European language?

Jews lived in European countries even before the Roman genocide,
while majority of Israelis are descendants of Jews from the Arab countries.

You should do a research on how American navy used to pay "protection" fees to Muslim racketeers in the seas.

 

[JoeB131]

Jews lived in European countries even before the Roman genocide,
while majority of Israelis are descendants of Jews from the Arab countries.

Ironically, You should do a research on how American navy used to pay "protection" fees to Muslim racketeers in the seas.

Excatly, we didn't go over there for 30 years trying to change them or "bring democracy" or any of the other shit. When they wouldn't take an honest bribe, we sent ships over to slap them around and we left.

But again, this was before the Zionists took over our government and insisted that we treat the Zionist Entity like the 51st State.

 

[Hollie]

Your conspiracy theories are flying off the shelves.

There are no American troops fighting in Israel FOR Israel and coming home in body bags.

Right. So all those wars we've been fighting in the Middle East for the last 30 years... those were figments of our imaginations.

Funny, we never fought wars in the Middle East before the Zionists took over our government.

It is funny that you continue to insist in the Jewish people being "dispersed" from their home by the Romans, when the Byzantine found plenty of Jews living there AFTER the Roman Empire crumbled and they took over, and so did the Muslim Kurds and then the Arabs when they invaded in the 7th century.

Then why were they all in Europe after that.. speaking a European language?

We never fought wars in the Middle East before the “Zionist takeover”?

Your sweaty, feverish Jew rants are asclaughably inept as your understanding of history.

Quite clearly, islamists have been at war with us since at least 1801. Barbary Coast wars, anyone?

Marine fight song: "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli"

 

[JoeB131]

We never fought wars in the Middle East before the “Zionist takeover”?

Your sweaty, feverish Jew rants are asclaughably inept as your understanding of history.

Quite clearly, islamists have been at war with us since at least 1801. Barbary Coast wars, anyone?

Marine fight song: "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli"

Yawn.. because it rhymed with "Sea", not because it was all that important to us.

So we send one small expedition once, and then we didn't get involved again for another 130 years... because it SO WASN'T our problem.

Until the Jews hijacked our politics, and suddenly, we treat Israel like queens.

We've been cleaning up after the Zionists since the 1970's over there... for really no good reason.

 

[rylah]

Jews lived in European countries even before the Roman genocide,
while majority of Israelis are descendants of Jews from the Arab countries.

Ironically, You should do a research on how American navy used to pay "protection" fees to Muslim racketeers in the seas.

Excatly, we didn't go over there for 30 years trying to change them or "bring democracy" or any of the other shit. When they wouldn't take an honest bribe, we sent ships over to slap them around and we left.

But again, this was before the Zionists took over our government and insisted that we treat the Zionist Entity like the 51st State.

What exactly?
America was unable to secure the navy from a bunch of Muslim pirates and was forced to pay for Sharia "protection".

I suggest that You demonstratively castrate Yourself -in memory of those good ol' days of glory, and don't forget to apologize.