The Real Problem with Immigration

[BrianH]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLJxmJZXgNI]YouTube - Testimony of illegal alien care from 1 Florida hospital[/ame]


Do they really even care...?

 

[cbi0090]

This is really an extension of the problem of illegal immigration, and a big one, but the problem is that they are here in the first place.
Chances are, though, these people were working and in the majority of cases, but not all, paying taxes. One of the problems is that there is a windfall of cash to the federal government that results from illegal aliens working here.

An employer gets a drivers liscense, address and Social Security number from a person, that is all they primarily do. He then withholds tax from his employees and pays his half of the SS tax and sends it in to the government, typically quarterly.

Most of these workers are typically lower paid people, but not always. (Ever walked past a construction site these days? usually not minimum wage) So, normally, they would get nearly everything they paid in back at the end of the year, but they aren't going to file. Their SS numbers are all bogus and they aren't going to give out their real address. So, what happens is I submit my taxes at the end of the year and, by chance, someone else pays in using my SS number as well.

Does the government go, hey, you paid in more than you say you did. There was money coming in under my SS number from the other side of the country. Hell, no.

No, they keep it and ignore it. They want to ignore it. It money for free. How hard could it be to see how much taxes are being paid in that comes from a bogus SS number or duplicate numbers? Pretty simple database query, right? But have you ever heard or seen that information anywhere? I don't think so and you probably won't any time too soon.

If health care was tied to paying taxes there would at least be some means of paying for it.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Brian
Jose, the point is. If millions of Americans were streaming across the border into Mexico illegally and taking jobs from Mexicans and bucking the system. And the Mexican government started changing everything to English would that make you mad? I feel that Mexicans would be pissed also. Any country would feel this way, that's why other countries have more strict immigration laws and actually enforce them.

Brian, I decided to post my reply here cause I’m gonna cite the video you posted.

I understand Shogun’s frustration perfectly.

If you reread my previous post as well as the ones I posted elsewhere you’re gonna see the only thing I said is that his anger towards Mexico is misdirected.

Aside: That thread (How to destroy the USA IN SIX EASY STEPS..............) degenerated into a regrettable virtual brawl due to Shogun’s trolling and MAINLY, his tendency to refer to Mexico as “shithole this”, “shithole that”.

Regarding the infamous message (n° 100), I want the members of the board to know I don’t believe a single world I said there.

 

[José]

Brian,

I’m gonna make a brief comparison between Palestine, Tibet and America so you can realize the absurdity of portraying the US as a victim of any other country.

From 1920 to 1948, the whole region of Palestine was under british military occupation (more than 100.000 soldiers).

The streets of Jerusalem, Haifa, etc, etc, were patrolled by british soldiers who also repressed any attempt by the Palestinian people to take control over their homeland.

Everything in Palestine, from garbage collection to border control, was controlled by foreigners.

If you entered the equivalent of the White House in 1940 you would find people speaking English with British accent instead of Arabic. Palestinians couldn’t take any decision at the federal level.

The Palestinian people had no say on crucial issues like immigration. The only thing they could do was to beg the british authorities to stop the flow of jewish immigration and pray their request would not fall on deaf ears.

Ordinary Palestinians watched thousands upon thousands of European jews arriving in their homeland and were desperate because they couldn’t do anything about it.

For all practical purposes they were subjects of the Crown.

 

[José]

Now answer me these questions, Brian:

Where are the Mexican troops occupying the White House, the Capitol and the rest of the country and preventing a legitimate American government to enforce the laws of the land and deport any illegal resident?

What’s the name of the Mexican civil servant who’s presently in the US and who was appointed by the Mexican president to rule the US as an occupied territory?

A simple comparison between Palestine under the british mandate and present day America reveals the grotesque nature of presenting America as a victim of its hispanic neighbors, Brian.

The country enjoys full sovereignty to enforce its laws the way it sees fit and even ignore them as it has been doing.

But Mexico provides the perfect scapegoat for some people:

“The country faces immigration problems because I’m too busy shopping to spend day after day picketing in front of the White House and I feel bad about it.

But here comes this japanese medieval warrior saying it’s Mexico’s fault and it sounds like music to my ears”.

 

[José]

You have many members of the board who hold basically the same opinion as Shogun:

AllieBaba, GunnyL, RetiredGySgt, CSM, Kathianne, to name a few.

All these individuals are American patriots, Brian. No one can “accuse” them of being fair to foreign countries.

But none of them blames Mexico for America’s immigration problems. Shogun is a lonely voice here blaming Mexico for the dereliction of duty on the part of the US authorities.

Shogun’s “blame Mexico first” mentality is so absurd, so insane that even super patriots like Baba, Gunny and Sergeant feel embarrassed to publicly support this view.

This speaks volumes, bro.

 

[Shogun]

my anger towards mexico isn't misdirected. If MEXICO wasn't such a fucking bowl of shit then the US wouldn't seem like a norther city of gold. Go fix your own nation without assuming the US is your fucking gauze bandage.


hey, blame someone else for the state of your biased argument, dude. Hell, if you gave half as much effort to CLEANING UP MEXICO as you do making excuses for illegals then perhaps you might have clean drinking water like we do.

 

[Shogun]

oh, and your Palestine example is fucking retarded. We already established the difference between the MEXICAN GOVERNMENT ALLOWING THE GRINGOS versus THE WEST CARVING OUT ISRAEL DESPITE THE PALS.

Remember? history probably didn't change since the last thread.

 

[Shogun]

You have many members of the board who hold basically the same opinion as Shogun:

AllieBaba, GunnyL, RetiredGySgt, CSM, Kathianne, to name a few.

All these individuals are American patriots, Brian. No one can “accuse” them of being fair to foreign countries.

But none of them blames Mexico for America’s immigration problems. Shogun is a lonely voice here blaming Mexico for the dereliction of duty on the part of the US authorities.

Shogun’s “blame Mexico first” mentality is so absurd, so insane that even super patriots like Baba, Gunny and Sergeant feel embarrassed to publicly support this view.

This speaks volumes, bro.

no AMERICA has many MEMBERS who hold this same opinion. I realize that you don't give a fuck about the people whose nation you are using for toilet paper but, hey.. i guess thats why illegals cant get drivers licenses.

FAIR to foreign countries? are you kissing me? what a goddamn joke. Who says we have to assimilate the poverty stricken runoff in order to be FAIR?

HA!

yea, dude. I sure am the lone voice. so unique is my opinion!





and yes, I do blame Mexico first just like I would blame any other country who decided to drop off their unwanted on our doorstep.. Like I said, go clean up the shit in your own yard before telling AMERICA how it's got to accommodate that dog you allow to shit in OURs.

 

[BrianH]

Brian,

I’m gonna make a brief comparison between Palestine, Tibet and America so you can realize the absurdity of portraying the US as a victim of any other country.

From 1920 to 1948, the whole region of Palestine was under british military occupation (more than 100.000 soldiers).

The streets of Jerusalem, Haifa, etc, etc, were patrolled by british soldiers who also repressed any attempt by the Palestinian people to take control over their homeland.

Everything in Palestine, from garbage collection to border control, was controlled by foreigners.

If you entered the equivalent of the White House in 1940 you would find people speaking English with British accent instead of Arabic. Palestinians couldn’t take any decision at the federal level.

The Palestinian people had no say on crucial issues like immigration. The only thing they could do was to beg the british authorities to stop the flow of jewish immigration and pray their request would not fall on deaf ears.

Ordinary Palestinians watched thousands upon thousands of European jews arriving in their homeland and were desperate because they couldn’t do anything about it.

For all practical purposes they were subjects of the Crown.

With all due respect, I am well aware of historic events. If you really watch the video that I posted, it has nothing to do with Shogun and/or blaming Mexico for illegal immigration...although I do believe that Mexico does "share" blame. The video is actually blaming the U.S. government as well as it's lack of immigration enforcement. The hospital was spending billions on an illegal alien...when reported, the law enforcement agencies didn't care. I'm not blaming Mexico for our lack of enforcement when it comes to immigration policy.

Now, on the other hand, you have a country that has done a shitty job (not that the U.S. hasn't) of improving the lives of it's citizens--in certain areas. The opposite can be see of this. Life in the U.S. is obviously better, hence, immigrants flood over the border to be here. If it were the other way around, and Mexico had the better economy and more stability, you might have Americans immigrating to Mexico. I do not blame Mexico for enforcing immigration laws into the U.S., however, I do hold Mexico responsible for not doing what it needs to do to improve live south of the border. If life was improved, you may not have many Mexicans coming here illegally.

 

[BrianH]

Now answer me these questions, Brian:

Where are the Mexican troops occupying the White House, the Capitol and the rest of the country and preventing a legitimate American government to enforce the laws of the land and deport any illegal resident?

What’s the name of the Mexican civil servant who’s presently in the US and who was appointed by the Mexican president to rule the US as an occupied territory?

A simple comparison between Palestine under the british mandate and present day America reveals the grotesque nature of presenting America as a victim of its hispanic neighbors, Brian.

The country enjoys full sovereignty to enforce its laws the way it sees fit and even ignore them as it has been doing.

But Mexico provides the perfect scapegoat for some people:

“The country faces immigration problems because I’m too busy shopping to spend day after day picketing in front of the White House and I feel bad about it.

But here comes this japanese medieval warrior saying it’s Mexico’s fault and it sounds like music to my ears”.

Again, with respect, these questions are unwarranted, given I have not blamed Mexico for illegal immigration. I believe they have contributed to it, much like the U.S. has. THe video posted on the OP was about the lack of the U.S. agencies to enforce U.S. laws. According to the hospital representative, the agencies didn't want to hear about it unless there was a "crime" committed. They forgot to mention the fact that immigrating illegally is a criminal act in the U.S.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Mexico SHARES the blame, The Government of Mexico ISSUES material to TEACH people IN Mexico how to slip across the border, how to survive in the desert and how to seek help once in the US.

We have even found tunnels when followed back into Mexico originated in Mexican Military and Police facilities.

Our Border Patrol have been attacked by people using Mexican Uniforms, vehicles marked as Mexican Military and using Mexican Military weapons and ammunition. INSIDE the US. ALso from across the border.

The Mexican Government makes official protests about our enforcing our immigration laws while having draconian laws and enforcement along their own Southern Border. The Mexican Government complained that we cut off easy access for illegals to send money back to Mexico, they did it through diplomatic Channels and the President of Mexico called our President to complain.

The Mexican Government makes official complaints when illegals are convicted of horrible crimes and sentence to long terms or the death penalty. Not because they think they are innocent, but because in Mexico they could get lighter sentences. Bush tried to INTERVENE in Texas affairs on just such a Matter.

Mexico and it's people and Government are part of the problem. Pretending otherwise may make you feel good, but it is a bald faced lie.

 

[BrianH]

Mexico SHARES the blame, The Government of Mexico ISSUES material to TEACH people IN Mexico how to slip across the border, how to survive in the desert and how to seek help once in the US.

We have even found tunnels when followed back into Mexico originated in Mexican Military and Police facilities.

Our Border Patrol have been attacked by people using Mexican Uniforms, vehicles marked as Mexican Military and using Mexican Military weapons and ammunition. INSIDE the US. ALso from across the border.

The Mexican Government makes official protests about our enforcing our immigration laws while having draconian laws and enforcement along their own Southern Border. The Mexican Government complained that we cut off easy access for illegals to send money back to Mexico, they did it through diplomatic Channels and the President of Mexico called our President to complain.

The Mexican Government makes official complaints when illegals are convicted of horrible crimes and sentence to long terms or the death penalty. Not because they think they are innocent, but because in Mexico they could get lighter sentences. Bush tried to INTERVENE in Texas affairs on just such a Matter.

Mexico and it's people and Government are part of the problem. Pretending otherwise may make you feel good, but it is a bald faced lie.

Exactly...not to mention, Mexican police and military have crossed the borders illegally numerous times (Several miles)...

I'm not going to stoop to say that Mexico is the entire problem, but it shares a great responsibility to it... Well put RGS

 

[William Joyce]

Hell, if you gave half as much effort to CLEANING UP MEXICO as you do making excuses for illegals then perhaps you might have clean drinking water like we do.

It does raise the question, if Mexicans are such hard workers with great family values, as Bush likes to tell us, why aren't they working hard to make Mexico a better place?

 

[Swamp Fox]

my anger towards mexico isn't misdirected. If MEXICO wasn't such a fucking bowl of shit then the US wouldn't seem like a norther city of gold. Go fix your own nation without assuming the US is your fucking gauze bandage.


hey, blame someone else for the state of your biased argument, dude. Hell, if you gave half as much effort to CLEANING UP MEXICO as you do making excuses for illegals then perhaps you might have clean drinking water like we do.

I agree. Mexico needs to get its act together and clean itself up before they start talking shit about how the United States deals with things. How many people have been killed in border towns because the Mexican government doesn't deal with the drug cartels? Or maybe, the Mexican government has dealt with the cartels and are getting paid to look the other way.

 

[Swamp Fox]

It does raise the question, if Mexicans are such hard workers with great family values, as Bush likes to tell us, why aren't they working hard to make Mexico a better place?

Because they aren't hard workers just looking to improve themselves. They're looking for a free handout and figure that the gold mine to the north is the palce to get it. Especially if our current politicians have their way and give out amnesty and medical care to all.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Swamp Fox
Because they aren't hard workers just looking to improve themselves.

You’re missing Joyce’s point entirely, Fox.

He wants to know why we “aren’t hard workers”.

He believes our “lack of entrepreneurial spirit and low IQ” is due to the fact we are the result of race mixing.

We have too much native american blood to be able to create wealthy societies.

 

[José]

Originally posted by William Joyce
It does raise the question, if Mexicans are such hard workers with great family values, as Bush likes to tell us, why aren't they working hard to make Mexico a better place?

Joyce

If your racial ideas are correct and we, Latinos/Hispanics, are really an inferior racial group with lower IQ than whites and biologically incapable of developing prosperous, technically advanced societies, then, it’s not fair to ask Mexico to become a first word country in order to alleviate America’s immigration problems.

No one can ask a racial/ethnic group to change its own genetic makeup, don’t you agree?

According to your ideas, it’s even more unjust to demmand that Mexico become a rich country to solve America’s problem with immigrants.

If we are inferior by nature, we are doomed to be poor forever.

 

[José]

Originally posted by BrianH
Although I do believe that Mexico does "share" blame.

As I posted elsewhere, illegal american weapons are an important part of mexican violence, Brian.

Thousands of mexican citizens have been killed by criminals carrying weapons whose aquisition was possible thanks to America’s gun legislation where individuals buy a great variety of arms as easily as mexicans buy vegetables at a grocery store.

But you don’t see me blaming America for all those deaths like the super patriots of this Message Board do.

Why this difference?

Because the their peabrains seem to be unable to assimilate an extremely simple concept:

EACH SOVEREIGN COUNTRY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SECURITY OF ITS SIDE OF THE BORDER.

Mexico is under no obligation to change its society or act as America’s border patrol to stop illegal imigrants and America does not have any obligation to change its gun legislation or arrest weapon smugglers entering mexican territory.

 

[José]

Originally posted by BrianH
Now, on the other hand, you have a country that has done a shitty job (not that the U.S. hasn't) of improving the lives of it's citizens--in certain areas. The opposite can be see of this. Life in the U.S. is obviously better, hence, immigrants flood over the border to be here.

Now you’re showing your pro US bias, Brian.

You’re basically blaming Mexico for being poor and the conclusion you draw that if Mexico was richer and/or had a more equitable distribution of income is absolutely wrong.

Even if Mexico had the most competent government in the world there would still exist a tremendous abyss separating the standard of living and job opportunities in both countries and illegal immigration would not be reduced at all.