The racist history of the confederate flag

[Correll]

your thread title is a lie.

you claim to be discussing the history of the flag, but you discuss it's beginning and then jump forward almost one hundred years.


how could you jump over it's use by southern units in WWII?

that was a huge part of it's development from a historical battle flag to a symbol of the south.

Lets see a link. I know of a possible few anecdotal example of individual soldiers showing the flag on branches and such temporarily. I could find no unit that flew it into a battle and hence, fought under it. But maybe you have a source.

wikepedia has some stuff on it.

 

[gipper]

This is another non-issue ginned up by trouble makers designed to divide Americans.

 

[Camp]

This is another non-issued ginned up by trouble makers designed to divide Americans.

The flag is the divisive element. It represents the greatest and most costly division in American history.

 

[gipper]

This is another non-issued ginned up by trouble makers designed to divide Americans.

The flag is the divisive element. It represents the greatest and most costly division in American history.

and so in your small mind that means it must be censored. How is that American?

You of all people, our beloved statist court jester should know imposing censorship is not freedom, but the opposite...but then again, maybe you don't.

...and thanks to your beloved Dishonest Abe for creating the most divisive event in American history.

 

[Camp]

This is another non-issued ginned up by trouble makers designed to divide Americans.

The flag is the divisive element. It represents the greatest and most costly division in American history.

and so in your small mind that means it must be censored. How is that American?

You of all people, our beloved statist court jester should know imposing censorship is not freedom, but the opposite...but then again, maybe you don't.

...and thanks to your beloved Dishonest Abe for creating the most divisive event in American history.

Nobody is censoring the confederate flag. You are just doing your usual deflecting from reality and embellishing a talking point because you know you have lost the debate. Reasonable minds are winning out over rw rhetoric tinged with hate. What will you people do if the mood continues and the countries weariness of hate progresses to the point that the top method of indoctrination into rw causes is neutralized and rejected. Without the doomsday and hatred mantra's you got between nothing and very little in the way of political attraction. Just a history of failures and transparent bullshit.

 

[rightwinger]

This is another non-issued ginned up by trouble makers designed to divide Americans.

Evidently it is an issue

It was an issue enough when someone demanded the confederate flag fly at the statehouse to show those civil rights protestors just how SC really feels

 

[Correll]

This is another non-issued ginned up by trouble makers designed to divide Americans.

Evidently it is an issue

It was an issue enough when someone demanded the confederate flag fly at the statehouse to show those civil rights protestors just how SC really feels

Why did you leave out the flying of the confederate battle flag during wwii by southern troops and units?

 

[guno]

Confederate Vice-President Alexander Stephens,even as he explained in clear language that his government’s “foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition.” Apparently some would have us ignore his plainly spoken assurance that:

The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution. African slavery as it exists amongst us is the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away…Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error.

Far from an afterthought, overshadowed by larger ruminations on taxes or trade policy, Stephens took great pains to distinguish the centrality of racism and slavery in the South, from that of all past governmental systems, including the United States:

This, our newer Government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth…Those at the North…assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights, with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just; but their premises being wrong, their whole argument fails.

And far from a one-off anomaly, Stephens repeated the arguments from his “cornerstone” speech a month later when speaking to the Virginia secession convention. Prior to his address, the Virginia delegates had rejected secession by a 2:1 margin, before finally reversing course and voting to leave the union. Stephens was dispatched so as to buttress that choice and make the case for why voters in the state should ratify their lawmakers’ decision in an upcoming plebiscite. In doing so, Stephens dug deeply into his bag of incendiary and racist rhetoric to affect the outcome. During his speech he articulated the principle of white supremacy as central to the ideology of the Confederate government:

As a race, the African is inferior to the white man. Subordination to the white man is his normal condition. He is not equal by nature, and cannot be made so by human laws or human institutions. Our system, therefore, so far as regards this inferior race, rests upon this great immutable law of nature. It is founded not upon wrong or injustice, but upon the eternal fitness of things. Hence, its harmonious working for the benefit and advantage of both…The great truth, I repeat, upon which our system rests, is the inferiority of the African. The enemies of our institutions ignore this truth. They set out with the assumption that the races are equal…hence, so much misapplied sympathy for fancied wrongs and sufferings. These wrongs and sufferings exist only in their heated imaginations. There can be no wrong where there is no violation of nature’s laws…It is the fanatics of the North, who are warring against the decrees of God Almighty, in their attempts to make things equal which he made unequal.

One wonders, exactly how many times does the Vice-President of a Government have to say the same thing regarding his administration’s philosophy (and that of his “nation”), each time without correction or censure from his superiors or governmental colleagues, before we believe him? And when that Vice-President himself insists that other issues like trade tariffs had already been adequately resolved to the satisfaction of the southern states—as he did in his November 14, 1860 address to the Georgia legislature—who but a liar or a fool can continue to insist that it was matters such as this that animated the Confederate cause?


Tim Wise Heritage of Hate Dylann Roof White Supremacy and the Truth About the Confederacy

 

[gipper]

This is another non-issued ginned up by trouble makers designed to divide Americans.

The flag is the divisive element. It represents the greatest and most costly division in American history.

and so in your small mind that means it must be censored. How is that American?

You of all people, our beloved statist court jester should know imposing censorship is not freedom, but the opposite...but then again, maybe you don't.

...and thanks to your beloved Dishonest Abe for creating the most divisive event in American history.

Nobody is censoring the confederate flag. You are just doing your usual deflecting from reality and embellishing a talking point because you know you have lost the debate. Reasonable minds are winning out over rw rhetoric tinged with hate. What will you people do if the mood continues and the countries weariness of hate progresses to the point that the top method of indoctrination into rw causes is neutralized and rejected. Without the doomsday and hatred mantra's you got between nothing and very little in the way of political attraction. Just a history of failures and transparent bullshit.

You might want to look up the definition of censor because apparently you do not know what it means.

 

[Correll]

Confederate Vice-President Alexander Stephens,even as he explained in clear language that his government’s “foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition.” Apparently some would have us ignore his plainly spoken assurance that:

The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution. African slavery as it exists amongst us is the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away…Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error.

Far from an afterthought, overshadowed by larger ruminations on taxes or trade policy, Stephens took great pains to distinguish the centrality of racism and slavery in the South, from that of all past governmental systems, including the United States:

This, our newer Government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth…Those at the North…assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights, with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just; but their premises being wrong, their whole argument fails.

And far from a one-off anomaly, Stephens repeated the arguments from his “cornerstone” speech a month later when speaking to the Virginia secession convention. Prior to his address, the Virginia delegates had rejected secession by a 2:1 margin, before finally reversing course and voting to leave the union. Stephens was dispatched so as to buttress that choice and make the case for why voters in the state should ratify their lawmakers’ decision in an upcoming plebiscite. In doing so, Stephens dug deeply into his bag of incendiary and racist rhetoric to affect the outcome. During his speech he articulated the principle of white supremacy as central to the ideology of the Confederate government:

As a race, the African is inferior to the white man. Subordination to the white man is his normal condition. He is not equal by nature, and cannot be made so by human laws or human institutions. Our system, therefore, so far as regards this inferior race, rests upon this great immutable law of nature. It is founded not upon wrong or injustice, but upon the eternal fitness of things. Hence, its harmonious working for the benefit and advantage of both…The great truth, I repeat, upon which our system rests, is the inferiority of the African. The enemies of our institutions ignore this truth. They set out with the assumption that the races are equal…hence, so much misapplied sympathy for fancied wrongs and sufferings. These wrongs and sufferings exist only in their heated imaginations. There can be no wrong where there is no violation of nature’s laws…It is the fanatics of the North, who are warring against the decrees of God Almighty, in their attempts to make things equal which he made unequal.

One wonders, exactly how many times does the Vice-President of a Government have to say the same thing regarding his administration’s philosophy (and that of his “nation”), each time without correction or censure from his superiors or governmental colleagues, before we believe him? And when that Vice-President himself insists that other issues like trade tariffs had already been adequately resolved to the satisfaction of the southern states—as he did in his November 14, 1860 address to the Georgia legislature—who but a liar or a fool can continue to insist that it was matters such as this that animated the Confederate cause?


Tim Wise Heritage of Hate Dylann Roof White Supremacy and the Truth About the Confederacy

jeez dude, it's the 21st century. what's with this whining about the 19th?

 

[gipper]

This is another non-issued ginned up by trouble makers designed to divide Americans.

Evidently it is an issue

It was an issue enough when someone demanded the confederate flag fly at the statehouse to show those civil rights protestors just how SC really feels

Leftnutter...it is a non-issue made to look like a real issue to easily fool dummies like you.

 

[Camp]

This is another non-issued ginned up by trouble makers designed to divide Americans.

Evidently it is an issue

It was an issue enough when someone demanded the confederate flag fly at the statehouse to show those civil rights protestors just how SC really feels

Why did you leave out the flying of the confederate battle flag during wwii by southern troops and units?

Why are you still making that claim? You still haven't backed it up. Some southern boys pulled out some confederate flags a couple of times and perhaps only once in WWII. The only photo of it being used is of a soldier tying a small flag to a tree branch at Okinawa. No unit ever fought under that flag.

 

[Statistikhengst]

your thread title is a lie.

you claim to be discussing the history of the flag, but you discuss it's beginning and then jump forward almost one hundred years.


how could you jump over it's use by southern units in WWII?

that was a huge part of it's development from a historical battle flag to a symbol of the south.

And somehow, I get the feeling that you have many, many, many books over this very important flag at home.

Are they also cum-stained?

I might make a poll about this.

Now, back to the OP: the facts about the creation and the INTENT of the confederate flags (yes, plural) are, just as rightwinger wrote, amazingly simple.

Just as the facts about Hitler's appropriation of the Hakenkreuz (Swastika) are amazingly simple.

And in both cases, revisionists like you are furiously swimming against the tide.

But facts are facts.

One of the biggest mistakes that the North made following the Civil War was to allow the South to retain any of the remnants and trappings of the Confederacy. This is a mistake that was not repeated at the end of the WWII.

 

[Statistikhengst]

The flag was used as a means to put Civil Rights marchers in their place

why is that photo in black and white?

oh, because it so so old that color film was not in common use.

sometime in the 50s, most likely. perhaps early 60s.

Well, that was stupid of you.

BW photography is still being used TODAY.

Weak sauce, especially for a hardcore revisionist like you.

 

[Statistikhengst]

actually, not so much.

slavery was not a result of the civil war, and very few blacks fought it the war.


a descendant of union soldiers might have something to complain about.

of course those soldiers, the ones that lived, were part of the american society that put the civil war behind them and healed the nation's wounds.

and their children's children's children do not have the moral authority to undo those choices.

No, it was the CAUSE of the Civil War.

Nice try.

I see you learned well from David Duke.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Its hard to imagine numb nut conservatives actually believing they are of a superior race...are you kidding me...gees just take a look at that Correll dude...totally a hot mess of half baked bigot beliefs...clearly an inferior poltroon...

 

[rightwinger]

This is another non-issued ginned up by trouble makers designed to divide Americans.

Evidently it is an issue

It was an issue enough when someone demanded the confederate flag fly at the statehouse to show those civil rights protestors just how SC really feels

Why did you leave out the flying of the confederate battle flag during wwii by southern troops and units?

provide a link and we can talk about it

 

[Statistikhengst]

Democrat motto: Never let a good crisis or dead bodies go to waste

USE them to further your HATEFUL political agenda

What is HATEFUL about wanting an offensive flag to be taken down in a time of grief?

This question will only make sense to people who actually care about other human beings and also to people who do not hate black people.

For people like Stephanie, this question will make no sense at all.

 

[Correll]

This is another non-issued ginned up by trouble makers designed to divide Americans.

Evidently it is an issue

It was an issue enough when someone demanded the confederate flag fly at the statehouse to show those civil rights protestors just how SC really feels

Why did you leave out the flying of the confederate battle flag during wwii by southern troops and units?

Why are you still making that claim? You still haven't backed it up. Some southern boys pulled out some confederate flags a couple of times and perhaps only once in WWII. The only photo of it being used is of a soldier tying a small flag to a tree branch at Okinawa. No unit ever fought under that flag.

i told you you could find some stuff on wikepedia.

the uss columbia fought under the flag, and the flag was raised over shuri castle by "Rebel company" after teh battle of okinawa.

why do you think they called themselves "rebel company"?

so you think they were planning on "rebelling"?