The Problem of Darwin and DNA

[Asclepias]

No thats not what you said. You said this which is false.

"Because of that all of our dogs today are probably decendants of Wolves. Why? People have bred them into unique shapes and sizes. Each change (mutation) in the animals offspring is due to a section of information being removed or replaced. "

You can take wolves and dogs up with science. OP is about Darwin was not right.

Science didnt make you claim something wrong then pretend you didnt make the claim. I am asking you.

You yourself acknowledge wolves and dogs are of a kind.

I acknowledged they shared a common ancestor. You claimed that dogs were descended from wolves.

OP is about Darwin being wrong.
Like I said, start your own OP if you want to claim dogs are not from wolves.

It speaks to the error in your argument. Its not my claim. its science.

 

[Weatherman2020]

...Enough about wiki, there are thousands of scientific articles. The point is they are of their own kind and can breed. The DNA strand of a wolve is much longer than that of a domestic dog, meaning it has more information and thus is more diverse and why it is believed to be closer to the original copy.

So? The "original" copy is merely the common ancestor, not the origin of their history.

The original copy will always have the longest strand DNA of that kind. Why? Because copies can only lose information, not create it.

 

[Divine Wind]

Just as I said in the OP, information can be duplicated, but never created.

Why not? How do you think the DNA was created in the first place? 6000 years ago in a day?

 

[Weatherman2020]

You can take wolves and dogs up with science. OP is about Darwin was not right.

Science didnt make you claim something wrong then pretend you didnt make the claim. I am asking you.

You yourself acknowledge wolves and dogs are of a kind.

I acknowledged they shared a common ancestor. You claimed that dogs were descended from wolves.

OP is about Darwin being wrong.
Like I said, start your own OP if you want to claim dogs are not from wolves.

It speaks to the error in your argument. Its not my claim. its science.

Dogs and wolves are of a kind. Wolves are genetically superior. Science says.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Just as I said in the OP, information can be duplicated, but never created.

Why not? How do you think the DNA was created in the first place? 6000 years ago in a day?

That'll be a different OP. But yes, each kind was created at one point in time and each kind has its own tree, but that tree is only of its kind.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Even though Wiki is not a good source when it comes to these things obviously you dont understand that "diverged" and "descended" are two different words with totally different meanings.

The problem with Wiki, as you know, is that it is only as good as those who add to it. It's the linked sources that are the real nuggets, IMO. If a Wiki article has good links, then it's a good source of info. No links or unreliable links, then not so much.

Enough about wiki, there are thousands of scientific articles. The point is they are of their own kind and can breed. The DNA strand of a wolve is much longer than that of a domestic dog, meaning it has more information and thus is more diverse and why it is believed to be closer to the original copy.

You also havent factored in that dogs and wolves will breed without human intervention.

What's dogs mating on their own have to do with DNA not being able to be created?

Well you said that a wolfs dna is longer. How do you know that didnt come about from mating with dogs?

Each kind can only breed with its own kind in nature. A bird will not cross breed with a lizard, no matter how much they try.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Darwin had no idea how reproduction worked in the age he lived in. Today we have a pretty good idea so let's look at how his theory fits into science.
View attachment 92909

Every cell in our body has DNA, and reproduces using that DNA. Everything we are is in that DNA strand. Yeah, you thought a blu-ray held a lot of information. Each cell in your body has that DNA strand that has all the information that is you in it.
So a single cell organism will have a DNA strand of a length, let's call it a length of 1 for the discussion. A horse will have a DNA strand length of 100,000. Longer because it has information about bones, eyes, ears, fur, etc.
View attachment 92904


When we reproduce each parent has DNA that is combined to make the offspring. If the DNA is split exactly 50/50 there are 2 possible outcomes for the offspring. In nature the DNA will be split between the parents in any combination, thus the offspring has over a million possible outcomes on their DNA. In this diagram there are 2 lines, each being the side of the double helix.
View attachment 92906
So when DNA replicates there is a sophisticated series of mechanisms that basically unzips the DNA and rezips it. Since every tiny section of that DNA is information as to who you are. Any error in the replication process is a mutation (there are mechanisms to repair these defects, but not for this discussion). For example, if you receive a lethal dose of radiation, the radiation does not kill your cells. What it does is damage the DNA so it cannot properly replicate. And since your body is having to constantly replace your cells, you soon die because your cells are not being replaced.

View attachment 92908

But let's say there is damage to the DNA that is nonlethal but there is enough DNA damage that causes a mutation in offspring. All mutations are because information is now missing from the DNA strand.
View attachment 92910

Let's use dogs as an example. The wolf is the most diverse animal in that group, because it has the most complex DNA. Because of that all of our dogs today are probably decendants of Wolves. Why? People have bred them into unique shapes and sizes. Each change (mutation) in the animals offspring is due to a section of information being removed or replaced.
For example, I want a dog with short legs so I keep breeding those with the shortest legs. What I have done is removed the information about a wolfs long legs and replaced it with short legs. But the inbreeding has created other errors in the DNA with parts now missing. I want a breed of dog with a short nose. What I've done is remove the DNA information about a wolfs long nose. That's why many breeds have a large number of health issues - we have altered DNA so that information has been removed or replaced into mutations we call poodles and pit bulls. The DNA strand of our pet dogs is much shorter than that of wolves. The changes I have made are only removing or replacing information in that DNA strand. In nature information can never be created.
View attachment 92911
That is important to remember. Information does not get created in nature. It has never been observed in a lab and we don't even know how it would be possible. It would be like ten thousand scrabble pieces falling on the floor and creating a logical and grammer perfect story, except the scrabble pieces would also have to self replicate out of nothing. Yes, information in a DNA strand can be duplicated. But that is not new information, it is a mutation of existing information. An insect can lose their wings because that information about wings is now gone. The information about wings cannot be added naturally. A brown moth species can become a white moth species because the DNA is altered so that white is the only color option in the DNA information.
View attachment 92912

So let's go back to Darwin. Our starting point is some primeval goo. That goo then reproduced into insects and soybeans and eventually humans.
View attachment 92913

Here lies the problem that Darwin had no way of knowing. For each progression additional information must be added to the DNA. In order for the goo to become a soybean plant a lot of information must be added to the DNA strand. That single cell organism that has a strand length of 1 must somehow obtain the information to get to a strand length of 1,000 for the Soybean plant.
View attachment 92914

But in nature, information can only be removed, not created. The problem Darwin has is his theory must have additional information being added all of the time, and we know in nature exactly the opposite is what occurs.

For information to be created, it needs a creator.

So what really happened to start life? Each shall reproduce of its own kind it says in Genesis. So take the Darwin chart again.
View attachment 92913

Instead of you being a family member of soybeans, each species was created and evolved (mutated) from there. Something like a wolf was first created, then information was removed to create toy poodles and chihuahuas. So that is one branch started. Cows mutated into Black Angus and other breeds. Another branch started. So thousands of branches were created, humans being one of them. Each species has its own tree, but each species remains unique and unchanging into alternate species because DNA information cannot be added in nature.

When we reproduce each parent has DNA that is combined to make the offspring. If the DNA is split exactly 50/50 there are 2 possible outcomes for the offspring.

Using the simple example on top, there are 4 possible outcomes.

 

[PK1]

WTF is this thread trying to say?
Darwin's theory is about natural selection. DNA supports his famous theory explaining speciation, as well is 99% of biological scientists in this world, except for the religious nuts like yourself.
LOL!

Your evidence is zero. If you have evidence, show it or accept the OP.

I side with the 98% in the AAAS (Pew Research):
"98% of scientists connected to the American Association for the Advancement of Science say they believe humans evolved over time."

Proving that you're one of the many programmed into turning off your brain when you hear the word "scientist". "Scientists say" is the most Pavlovian trigger mechanism humans have today.

Unless you cite the true source of your OP, your alleged "I wrote it" claim is not going to be taken seriously until published in a peer-reviewed journal (there are MANY of them).

What a hypocrite. You can't get more Pavlovian than citing the Bible!
LOLROTF!!

 

[Weatherman2020]

Darwin had no idea how reproduction worked in the age he lived in. Today we have a pretty good idea so let's look at how his theory fits into science.
View attachment 92909

Every cell in our body has DNA, and reproduces using that DNA. Everything we are is in that DNA strand. Yeah, you thought a blu-ray held a lot of information. Each cell in your body has that DNA strand that has all the information that is you in it.
So a single cell organism will have a DNA strand of a length, let's call it a length of 1 for the discussion. A horse will have a DNA strand length of 100,000. Longer because it has information about bones, eyes, ears, fur, etc.
View attachment 92904


When we reproduce each parent has DNA that is combined to make the offspring. If the DNA is split exactly 50/50 there are 2 possible outcomes for the offspring. In nature the DNA will be split between the parents in any combination, thus the offspring has over a million possible outcomes on their DNA. In this diagram there are 2 lines, each being the side of the double helix.
View attachment 92906
So when DNA replicates there is a sophisticated series of mechanisms that basically unzips the DNA and rezips it. Since every tiny section of that DNA is information as to who you are. Any error in the replication process is a mutation (there are mechanisms to repair these defects, but not for this discussion). For example, if you receive a lethal dose of radiation, the radiation does not kill your cells. What it does is damage the DNA so it cannot properly replicate. And since your body is having to constantly replace your cells, you soon die because your cells are not being replaced.

View attachment 92908

But let's say there is damage to the DNA that is nonlethal but there is enough DNA damage that causes a mutation in offspring. All mutations are because information is now missing from the DNA strand.
View attachment 92910

Let's use dogs as an example. The wolf is the most diverse animal in that group, because it has the most complex DNA. Because of that all of our dogs today are probably decendants of Wolves. Why? People have bred them into unique shapes and sizes. Each change (mutation) in the animals offspring is due to a section of information being removed or replaced.
For example, I want a dog with short legs so I keep breeding those with the shortest legs. What I have done is removed the information about a wolfs long legs and replaced it with short legs. But the inbreeding has created other errors in the DNA with parts now missing. I want a breed of dog with a short nose. What I've done is remove the DNA information about a wolfs long nose. That's why many breeds have a large number of health issues - we have altered DNA so that information has been removed or replaced into mutations we call poodles and pit bulls. The DNA strand of our pet dogs is much shorter than that of wolves. The changes I have made are only removing or replacing information in that DNA strand. In nature information can never be created.
View attachment 92911
That is important to remember. Information does not get created in nature. It has never been observed in a lab and we don't even know how it would be possible. It would be like ten thousand scrabble pieces falling on the floor and creating a logical and grammer perfect story, except the scrabble pieces would also have to self replicate out of nothing. Yes, information in a DNA strand can be duplicated. But that is not new information, it is a mutation of existing information. An insect can lose their wings because that information about wings is now gone. The information about wings cannot be added naturally. A brown moth species can become a white moth species because the DNA is altered so that white is the only color option in the DNA information.
View attachment 92912

So let's go back to Darwin. Our starting point is some primeval goo. That goo then reproduced into insects and soybeans and eventually humans.
View attachment 92913

Here lies the problem that Darwin had no way of knowing. For each progression additional information must be added to the DNA. In order for the goo to become a soybean plant a lot of information must be added to the DNA strand. That single cell organism that has a strand length of 1 must somehow obtain the information to get to a strand length of 1,000 for the Soybean plant.
View attachment 92914

But in nature, information can only be removed, not created. The problem Darwin has is his theory must have additional information being added all of the time, and we know in nature exactly the opposite is what occurs.

For information to be created, it needs a creator.

So what really happened to start life? Each shall reproduce of its own kind it says in Genesis. So take the Darwin chart again.
View attachment 92913

Instead of you being a family member of soybeans, each species was created and evolved (mutated) from there. Something like a wolf was first created, then information was removed to create toy poodles and chihuahuas. So that is one branch started. Cows mutated into Black Angus and other breeds. Another branch started. So thousands of branches were created, humans being one of them. Each species has its own tree, but each species remains unique and unchanging into alternate species because DNA information cannot be added in nature.

When we reproduce each parent has DNA that is combined to make the offspring. If the DNA is split exactly 50/50 there are 2 possible outcomes for the offspring.

Using the simple example on top, there are 4 possible outcomes.

Double helix.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Darwin had no idea how reproduction worked in the age he lived in. Today we have a pretty good idea so let's look at how his theory fits into science.
View attachment 92909

Every cell in our body has DNA, and reproduces using that DNA. Everything we are is in that DNA strand. Yeah, you thought a blu-ray held a lot of information. Each cell in your body has that DNA strand that has all the information that is you in it.
So a single cell organism will have a DNA strand of a length, let's call it a length of 1 for the discussion. A horse will have a DNA strand length of 100,000. Longer because it has information about bones, eyes, ears, fur, etc.
View attachment 92904


When we reproduce each parent has DNA that is combined to make the offspring. If the DNA is split exactly 50/50 there are 2 possible outcomes for the offspring. In nature the DNA will be split between the parents in any combination, thus the offspring has over a million possible outcomes on their DNA. In this diagram there are 2 lines, each being the side of the double helix.
View attachment 92906
So when DNA replicates there is a sophisticated series of mechanisms that basically unzips the DNA and rezips it. Since every tiny section of that DNA is information as to who you are. Any error in the replication process is a mutation (there are mechanisms to repair these defects, but not for this discussion). For example, if you receive a lethal dose of radiation, the radiation does not kill your cells. What it does is damage the DNA so it cannot properly replicate. And since your body is having to constantly replace your cells, you soon die because your cells are not being replaced.

View attachment 92908

But let's say there is damage to the DNA that is nonlethal but there is enough DNA damage that causes a mutation in offspring. All mutations are because information is now missing from the DNA strand.
View attachment 92910

Let's use dogs as an example. The wolf is the most diverse animal in that group, because it has the most complex DNA. Because of that all of our dogs today are probably decendants of Wolves. Why? People have bred them into unique shapes and sizes. Each change (mutation) in the animals offspring is due to a section of information being removed or replaced.
For example, I want a dog with short legs so I keep breeding those with the shortest legs. What I have done is removed the information about a wolfs long legs and replaced it with short legs. But the inbreeding has created other errors in the DNA with parts now missing. I want a breed of dog with a short nose. What I've done is remove the DNA information about a wolfs long nose. That's why many breeds have a large number of health issues - we have altered DNA so that information has been removed or replaced into mutations we call poodles and pit bulls. The DNA strand of our pet dogs is much shorter than that of wolves. The changes I have made are only removing or replacing information in that DNA strand. In nature information can never be created.
View attachment 92911
That is important to remember. Information does not get created in nature. It has never been observed in a lab and we don't even know how it would be possible. It would be like ten thousand scrabble pieces falling on the floor and creating a logical and grammer perfect story, except the scrabble pieces would also have to self replicate out of nothing. Yes, information in a DNA strand can be duplicated. But that is not new information, it is a mutation of existing information. An insect can lose their wings because that information about wings is now gone. The information about wings cannot be added naturally. A brown moth species can become a white moth species because the DNA is altered so that white is the only color option in the DNA information.
View attachment 92912

So let's go back to Darwin. Our starting point is some primeval goo. That goo then reproduced into insects and soybeans and eventually humans.
View attachment 92913

Here lies the problem that Darwin had no way of knowing. For each progression additional information must be added to the DNA. In order for the goo to become a soybean plant a lot of information must be added to the DNA strand. That single cell organism that has a strand length of 1 must somehow obtain the information to get to a strand length of 1,000 for the Soybean plant.
View attachment 92914

But in nature, information can only be removed, not created. The problem Darwin has is his theory must have additional information being added all of the time, and we know in nature exactly the opposite is what occurs.

For information to be created, it needs a creator.

So what really happened to start life? Each shall reproduce of its own kind it says in Genesis. So take the Darwin chart again.
View attachment 92913

Instead of you being a family member of soybeans, each species was created and evolved (mutated) from there. Something like a wolf was first created, then information was removed to create toy poodles and chihuahuas. So that is one branch started. Cows mutated into Black Angus and other breeds. Another branch started. So thousands of branches were created, humans being one of them. Each species has its own tree, but each species remains unique and unchanging into alternate species because DNA information cannot be added in nature.

For example, if you receive a lethal dose of radiation, the radiation does not kill your cells.

Enough radiation does kill your cells.

 

[Weatherman2020]

WTF is this thread trying to say?
Darwin's theory is about natural selection. DNA supports his famous theory explaining speciation, as well is 99% of biological scientists in this world, except for the religious nuts like yourself.
LOL!

Your evidence is zero. If you have evidence, show it or accept the OP.

I side with the 98% in the AAAS (Pew Research):
"98% of scientists connected to the American Association for the Advancement of Science say they believe humans evolved over time."

Proving that you're one of the many programmed into turning off your brain when you hear the word "scientist". "Scientists say" is the most Pavlovian trigger mechanism humans have today.

Unless you cite the true source of your OP, your alleged "I wrote it" claim is not going to be taken seriously until published in a peer-reviewed journal (there are MANY of them).

What a hypocrite. You can't get more Pavlovian than citing the Bible!
LOLROTF!!

You're saying there are peer reviewed studies showing DNA information is naturally created and added to existing DNA?
Please link.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Darwin had no idea how reproduction worked in the age he lived in. Today we have a pretty good idea so let's look at how his theory fits into science.
View attachment 92909

Every cell in our body has DNA, and reproduces using that DNA. Everything we are is in that DNA strand. Yeah, you thought a blu-ray held a lot of information. Each cell in your body has that DNA strand that has all the information that is you in it.
So a single cell organism will have a DNA strand of a length, let's call it a length of 1 for the discussion. A horse will have a DNA strand length of 100,000. Longer because it has information about bones, eyes, ears, fur, etc.
View attachment 92904


When we reproduce each parent has DNA that is combined to make the offspring. If the DNA is split exactly 50/50 there are 2 possible outcomes for the offspring. In nature the DNA will be split between the parents in any combination, thus the offspring has over a million possible outcomes on their DNA. In this diagram there are 2 lines, each being the side of the double helix.
View attachment 92906
So when DNA replicates there is a sophisticated series of mechanisms that basically unzips the DNA and rezips it. Since every tiny section of that DNA is information as to who you are. Any error in the replication process is a mutation (there are mechanisms to repair these defects, but not for this discussion). For example, if you receive a lethal dose of radiation, the radiation does not kill your cells. What it does is damage the DNA so it cannot properly replicate. And since your body is having to constantly replace your cells, you soon die because your cells are not being replaced.

View attachment 92908

But let's say there is damage to the DNA that is nonlethal but there is enough DNA damage that causes a mutation in offspring. All mutations are because information is now missing from the DNA strand.
View attachment 92910

Let's use dogs as an example. The wolf is the most diverse animal in that group, because it has the most complex DNA. Because of that all of our dogs today are probably decendants of Wolves. Why? People have bred them into unique shapes and sizes. Each change (mutation) in the animals offspring is due to a section of information being removed or replaced.
For example, I want a dog with short legs so I keep breeding those with the shortest legs. What I have done is removed the information about a wolfs long legs and replaced it with short legs. But the inbreeding has created other errors in the DNA with parts now missing. I want a breed of dog with a short nose. What I've done is remove the DNA information about a wolfs long nose. That's why many breeds have a large number of health issues - we have altered DNA so that information has been removed or replaced into mutations we call poodles and pit bulls. The DNA strand of our pet dogs is much shorter than that of wolves. The changes I have made are only removing or replacing information in that DNA strand. In nature information can never be created.
View attachment 92911
That is important to remember. Information does not get created in nature. It has never been observed in a lab and we don't even know how it would be possible. It would be like ten thousand scrabble pieces falling on the floor and creating a logical and grammer perfect story, except the scrabble pieces would also have to self replicate out of nothing. Yes, information in a DNA strand can be duplicated. But that is not new information, it is a mutation of existing information. An insect can lose their wings because that information about wings is now gone. The information about wings cannot be added naturally. A brown moth species can become a white moth species because the DNA is altered so that white is the only color option in the DNA information.
View attachment 92912

So let's go back to Darwin. Our starting point is some primeval goo. That goo then reproduced into insects and soybeans and eventually humans.
View attachment 92913

Here lies the problem that Darwin had no way of knowing. For each progression additional information must be added to the DNA. In order for the goo to become a soybean plant a lot of information must be added to the DNA strand. That single cell organism that has a strand length of 1 must somehow obtain the information to get to a strand length of 1,000 for the Soybean plant.
View attachment 92914

But in nature, information can only be removed, not created. The problem Darwin has is his theory must have additional information being added all of the time, and we know in nature exactly the opposite is what occurs.

For information to be created, it needs a creator.

So what really happened to start life? Each shall reproduce of its own kind it says in Genesis. So take the Darwin chart again.
View attachment 92913

Instead of you being a family member of soybeans, each species was created and evolved (mutated) from there. Something like a wolf was first created, then information was removed to create toy poodles and chihuahuas. So that is one branch started. Cows mutated into Black Angus and other breeds. Another branch started. So thousands of branches were created, humans being one of them. Each species has its own tree, but each species remains unique and unchanging into alternate species because DNA information cannot be added in nature.

When we reproduce each parent has DNA that is combined to make the offspring. If the DNA is split exactly 50/50 there are 2 possible outcomes for the offspring.

Using the simple example on top, there are 4 possible outcomes.

Double helix.

If each child got one "DNA rectangle" from each parent, there are 4 possible outcomes.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Darwin had no idea how reproduction worked in the age he lived in. Today we have a pretty good idea so let's look at how his theory fits into science.
View attachment 92909

Every cell in our body has DNA, and reproduces using that DNA. Everything we are is in that DNA strand. Yeah, you thought a blu-ray held a lot of information. Each cell in your body has that DNA strand that has all the information that is you in it.
So a single cell organism will have a DNA strand of a length, let's call it a length of 1 for the discussion. A horse will have a DNA strand length of 100,000. Longer because it has information about bones, eyes, ears, fur, etc.
View attachment 92904


When we reproduce each parent has DNA that is combined to make the offspring. If the DNA is split exactly 50/50 there are 2 possible outcomes for the offspring. In nature the DNA will be split between the parents in any combination, thus the offspring has over a million possible outcomes on their DNA. In this diagram there are 2 lines, each being the side of the double helix.
View attachment 92906
So when DNA replicates there is a sophisticated series of mechanisms that basically unzips the DNA and rezips it. Since every tiny section of that DNA is information as to who you are. Any error in the replication process is a mutation (there are mechanisms to repair these defects, but not for this discussion). For example, if you receive a lethal dose of radiation, the radiation does not kill your cells. What it does is damage the DNA so it cannot properly replicate. And since your body is having to constantly replace your cells, you soon die because your cells are not being replaced.

View attachment 92908

But let's say there is damage to the DNA that is nonlethal but there is enough DNA damage that causes a mutation in offspring. All mutations are because information is now missing from the DNA strand.
View attachment 92910

Let's use dogs as an example. The wolf is the most diverse animal in that group, because it has the most complex DNA. Because of that all of our dogs today are probably decendants of Wolves. Why? People have bred them into unique shapes and sizes. Each change (mutation) in the animals offspring is due to a section of information being removed or replaced.
For example, I want a dog with short legs so I keep breeding those with the shortest legs. What I have done is removed the information about a wolfs long legs and replaced it with short legs. But the inbreeding has created other errors in the DNA with parts now missing. I want a breed of dog with a short nose. What I've done is remove the DNA information about a wolfs long nose. That's why many breeds have a large number of health issues - we have altered DNA so that information has been removed or replaced into mutations we call poodles and pit bulls. The DNA strand of our pet dogs is much shorter than that of wolves. The changes I have made are only removing or replacing information in that DNA strand. In nature information can never be created.
View attachment 92911
That is important to remember. Information does not get created in nature. It has never been observed in a lab and we don't even know how it would be possible. It would be like ten thousand scrabble pieces falling on the floor and creating a logical and grammer perfect story, except the scrabble pieces would also have to self replicate out of nothing. Yes, information in a DNA strand can be duplicated. But that is not new information, it is a mutation of existing information. An insect can lose their wings because that information about wings is now gone. The information about wings cannot be added naturally. A brown moth species can become a white moth species because the DNA is altered so that white is the only color option in the DNA information.
View attachment 92912

So let's go back to Darwin. Our starting point is some primeval goo. That goo then reproduced into insects and soybeans and eventually humans.
View attachment 92913

Here lies the problem that Darwin had no way of knowing. For each progression additional information must be added to the DNA. In order for the goo to become a soybean plant a lot of information must be added to the DNA strand. That single cell organism that has a strand length of 1 must somehow obtain the information to get to a strand length of 1,000 for the Soybean plant.
View attachment 92914

But in nature, information can only be removed, not created. The problem Darwin has is his theory must have additional information being added all of the time, and we know in nature exactly the opposite is what occurs.

For information to be created, it needs a creator.

So what really happened to start life? Each shall reproduce of its own kind it says in Genesis. So take the Darwin chart again.
View attachment 92913

Instead of you being a family member of soybeans, each species was created and evolved (mutated) from there. Something like a wolf was first created, then information was removed to create toy poodles and chihuahuas. So that is one branch started. Cows mutated into Black Angus and other breeds. Another branch started. So thousands of branches were created, humans being one of them. Each species has its own tree, but each species remains unique and unchanging into alternate species because DNA information cannot be added in nature.

For example, if you receive a lethal dose of radiation, the radiation does not kill your cells.

Enough radiation does kill your cells.

Radiation kills cells by damaging the DNA so it can not replicate.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Darwin had no idea how reproduction worked in the age he lived in. Today we have a pretty good idea so let's look at how his theory fits into science.
View attachment 92909

Every cell in our body has DNA, and reproduces using that DNA. Everything we are is in that DNA strand. Yeah, you thought a blu-ray held a lot of information. Each cell in your body has that DNA strand that has all the information that is you in it.
So a single cell organism will have a DNA strand of a length, let's call it a length of 1 for the discussion. A horse will have a DNA strand length of 100,000. Longer because it has information about bones, eyes, ears, fur, etc.
View attachment 92904


When we reproduce each parent has DNA that is combined to make the offspring. If the DNA is split exactly 50/50 there are 2 possible outcomes for the offspring. In nature the DNA will be split between the parents in any combination, thus the offspring has over a million possible outcomes on their DNA. In this diagram there are 2 lines, each being the side of the double helix.
View attachment 92906
So when DNA replicates there is a sophisticated series of mechanisms that basically unzips the DNA and rezips it. Since every tiny section of that DNA is information as to who you are. Any error in the replication process is a mutation (there are mechanisms to repair these defects, but not for this discussion). For example, if you receive a lethal dose of radiation, the radiation does not kill your cells. What it does is damage the DNA so it cannot properly replicate. And since your body is having to constantly replace your cells, you soon die because your cells are not being replaced.

View attachment 92908

But let's say there is damage to the DNA that is nonlethal but there is enough DNA damage that causes a mutation in offspring. All mutations are because information is now missing from the DNA strand.
View attachment 92910

Let's use dogs as an example. The wolf is the most diverse animal in that group, because it has the most complex DNA. Because of that all of our dogs today are probably decendants of Wolves. Why? People have bred them into unique shapes and sizes. Each change (mutation) in the animals offspring is due to a section of information being removed or replaced.
For example, I want a dog with short legs so I keep breeding those with the shortest legs. What I have done is removed the information about a wolfs long legs and replaced it with short legs. But the inbreeding has created other errors in the DNA with parts now missing. I want a breed of dog with a short nose. What I've done is remove the DNA information about a wolfs long nose. That's why many breeds have a large number of health issues - we have altered DNA so that information has been removed or replaced into mutations we call poodles and pit bulls. The DNA strand of our pet dogs is much shorter than that of wolves. The changes I have made are only removing or replacing information in that DNA strand. In nature information can never be created.
View attachment 92911
That is important to remember. Information does not get created in nature. It has never been observed in a lab and we don't even know how it would be possible. It would be like ten thousand scrabble pieces falling on the floor and creating a logical and grammer perfect story, except the scrabble pieces would also have to self replicate out of nothing. Yes, information in a DNA strand can be duplicated. But that is not new information, it is a mutation of existing information. An insect can lose their wings because that information about wings is now gone. The information about wings cannot be added naturally. A brown moth species can become a white moth species because the DNA is altered so that white is the only color option in the DNA information.
View attachment 92912

So let's go back to Darwin. Our starting point is some primeval goo. That goo then reproduced into insects and soybeans and eventually humans.
View attachment 92913

Here lies the problem that Darwin had no way of knowing. For each progression additional information must be added to the DNA. In order for the goo to become a soybean plant a lot of information must be added to the DNA strand. That single cell organism that has a strand length of 1 must somehow obtain the information to get to a strand length of 1,000 for the Soybean plant.
View attachment 92914

But in nature, information can only be removed, not created. The problem Darwin has is his theory must have additional information being added all of the time, and we know in nature exactly the opposite is what occurs.

For information to be created, it needs a creator.

So what really happened to start life? Each shall reproduce of its own kind it says in Genesis. So take the Darwin chart again.
View attachment 92913

Instead of you being a family member of soybeans, each species was created and evolved (mutated) from there. Something like a wolf was first created, then information was removed to create toy poodles and chihuahuas. So that is one branch started. Cows mutated into Black Angus and other breeds. Another branch started. So thousands of branches were created, humans being one of them. Each species has its own tree, but each species remains unique and unchanging into alternate species because DNA information cannot be added in nature.

For example, if you receive a lethal dose of radiation, the radiation does not kill your cells.

Enough radiation does kill your cells.

Radiation kills cells by damaging the DNA so it can not replicate.

Or, just by killing them.

 

[Asclepias]

Science didnt make you claim something wrong then pretend you didnt make the claim. I am asking you.

You yourself acknowledge wolves and dogs are of a kind.

I acknowledged they shared a common ancestor. You claimed that dogs were descended from wolves.

OP is about Darwin being wrong.
Like I said, start your own OP if you want to claim dogs are not from wolves.

It speaks to the error in your argument. Its not my claim. its science.

Dogs and wolves are of a kind. Wolves are genetically superior. Science says.

If they are of a kind how are wolves superior? This is why I can never take your threads seriously.

 

[Asclepias]

Darwin had no idea how reproduction worked in the age he lived in. Today we have a pretty good idea so let's look at how his theory fits into science.
View attachment 92909

Every cell in our body has DNA, and reproduces using that DNA. Everything we are is in that DNA strand. Yeah, you thought a blu-ray held a lot of information. Each cell in your body has that DNA strand that has all the information that is you in it.
So a single cell organism will have a DNA strand of a length, let's call it a length of 1 for the discussion. A horse will have a DNA strand length of 100,000. Longer because it has information about bones, eyes, ears, fur, etc.
View attachment 92904


When we reproduce each parent has DNA that is combined to make the offspring. If the DNA is split exactly 50/50 there are 2 possible outcomes for the offspring. In nature the DNA will be split between the parents in any combination, thus the offspring has over a million possible outcomes on their DNA. In this diagram there are 2 lines, each being the side of the double helix.
View attachment 92906
So when DNA replicates there is a sophisticated series of mechanisms that basically unzips the DNA and rezips it. Since every tiny section of that DNA is information as to who you are. Any error in the replication process is a mutation (there are mechanisms to repair these defects, but not for this discussion). For example, if you receive a lethal dose of radiation, the radiation does not kill your cells. What it does is damage the DNA so it cannot properly replicate. And since your body is having to constantly replace your cells, you soon die because your cells are not being replaced.

View attachment 92908

But let's say there is damage to the DNA that is nonlethal but there is enough DNA damage that causes a mutation in offspring. All mutations are because information is now missing from the DNA strand.
View attachment 92910

Let's use dogs as an example. The wolf is the most diverse animal in that group, because it has the most complex DNA. Because of that all of our dogs today are probably decendants of Wolves. Why? People have bred them into unique shapes and sizes. Each change (mutation) in the animals offspring is due to a section of information being removed or replaced.
For example, I want a dog with short legs so I keep breeding those with the shortest legs. What I have done is removed the information about a wolfs long legs and replaced it with short legs. But the inbreeding has created other errors in the DNA with parts now missing. I want a breed of dog with a short nose. What I've done is remove the DNA information about a wolfs long nose. That's why many breeds have a large number of health issues - we have altered DNA so that information has been removed or replaced into mutations we call poodles and pit bulls. The DNA strand of our pet dogs is much shorter than that of wolves. The changes I have made are only removing or replacing information in that DNA strand. In nature information can never be created.
View attachment 92911
That is important to remember. Information does not get created in nature. It has never been observed in a lab and we don't even know how it would be possible. It would be like ten thousand scrabble pieces falling on the floor and creating a logical and grammer perfect story, except the scrabble pieces would also have to self replicate out of nothing. Yes, information in a DNA strand can be duplicated. But that is not new information, it is a mutation of existing information. An insect can lose their wings because that information about wings is now gone. The information about wings cannot be added naturally. A brown moth species can become a white moth species because the DNA is altered so that white is the only color option in the DNA information.
View attachment 92912

So let's go back to Darwin. Our starting point is some primeval goo. That goo then reproduced into insects and soybeans and eventually humans.
View attachment 92913

Here lies the problem that Darwin had no way of knowing. For each progression additional information must be added to the DNA. In order for the goo to become a soybean plant a lot of information must be added to the DNA strand. That single cell organism that has a strand length of 1 must somehow obtain the information to get to a strand length of 1,000 for the Soybean plant.
View attachment 92914

But in nature, information can only be removed, not created. The problem Darwin has is his theory must have additional information being added all of the time, and we know in nature exactly the opposite is what occurs.

For information to be created, it needs a creator.

So what really happened to start life? Each shall reproduce of its own kind it says in Genesis. So take the Darwin chart again.
View attachment 92913

Instead of you being a family member of soybeans, each species was created and evolved (mutated) from there. Something like a wolf was first created, then information was removed to create toy poodles and chihuahuas. So that is one branch started. Cows mutated into Black Angus and other breeds. Another branch started. So thousands of branches were created, humans being one of them. Each species has its own tree, but each species remains unique and unchanging into alternate species because DNA information cannot be added in nature.

For example, if you receive a lethal dose of radiation, the radiation does not kill your cells.

Enough radiation does kill your cells.

Radiation kills cells by damaging the DNA so it can not replicate.

Does that mean whites are inferior because they have less protection from the suns radiation?

 

[SixFoot]

"Darwin was wrong about dogs. He thought their remarkable diversity must reflect interbreeding with several types of wild dogs. But the DNA findings say differently. All modern dogs are descendants of wolves, though this domestication may have happened twice, producing groups of dogs descended from two unique common ancestors."

Evolution: Library: Evolution of the Dog

"Let's go back across 30,000 years to a time before dogs, when our ancestors lived in the endless winter of the last ice age.

Our ancestors were wanderers living in small bands.
They slept beneath the stars.

The sky was their storybook, calendar, an instruction manual for living.
It told them when the bitter colds would come, when the wild grains would ripen, when the herds of caribou and bison would be on the move.

Their idea of home was Earth itself.

But they lived in fear of other hungry creatures the mountain lions and the bears that competed with them for the same prey and the wolves that threatened to carry off and devour the most vulnerable among them.
All the wolves want to get at the bone, but most of them are too frightened to come close enough.

Their fear is due to high levels of stress hormones in their blood.

It's a matter of survival.
Because coming too close to humans can be fatal.

But a few wolves-- due to natural variations-- have lower levels of those hormones.
This makes them less afraid of humans.

This wolf has discovered what a branch of his ancestors figured out some 15,000 years ago an excellent survival strategy; the domestication of humans.

Let the humans do the hunting, don't threaten them, and they'll let you scavenge their garbage.
You'll eat more regularly, you'll leave more offspring, and those offspring will inherit your disposition.
This selection for tameness would be reinforced with each generation until that line of wild wolves evolves into dogs.

You might call this "survival of the friendliest.
" Then as now, this was a good deal for the humans, too.
The scavenging dogs weren't just a sanitation squad.

They worked security.

As this inter-species partnership continued over time, the dogs' appearance changed also.
Cuteness became a selective advantage.

The more adorable you were, the better chance you had to live and pass on your genes to another generation.
What began as an alliance of convenience became a friendship that deepened over time."

Now, back to PBS:

How and when this domestication happened has been a matter of speculation. It was thought until very recently that dogs were wild until about 12,000 years ago. But DNA analysis published in 1997 suggests a date of about 130,000 years ago for the transformation of wolves to dogs. This means that wolves began to adapt to human society long before humans settled down and began practicing agriculture.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Darwin had no idea how reproduction worked in the age he lived in. Today we have a pretty good idea so let's look at how his theory fits into science.
View attachment 92909

Every cell in our body has DNA, and reproduces using that DNA. Everything we are is in that DNA strand. Yeah, you thought a blu-ray held a lot of information. Each cell in your body has that DNA strand that has all the information that is you in it.
So a single cell organism will have a DNA strand of a length, let's call it a length of 1 for the discussion. A horse will have a DNA strand length of 100,000. Longer because it has information about bones, eyes, ears, fur, etc.
View attachment 92904


When we reproduce each parent has DNA that is combined to make the offspring. If the DNA is split exactly 50/50 there are 2 possible outcomes for the offspring. In nature the DNA will be split between the parents in any combination, thus the offspring has over a million possible outcomes on their DNA. In this diagram there are 2 lines, each being the side of the double helix.
View attachment 92906
So when DNA replicates there is a sophisticated series of mechanisms that basically unzips the DNA and rezips it. Since every tiny section of that DNA is information as to who you are. Any error in the replication process is a mutation (there are mechanisms to repair these defects, but not for this discussion). For example, if you receive a lethal dose of radiation, the radiation does not kill your cells. What it does is damage the DNA so it cannot properly replicate. And since your body is having to constantly replace your cells, you soon die because your cells are not being replaced.

View attachment 92908

But let's say there is damage to the DNA that is nonlethal but there is enough DNA damage that causes a mutation in offspring. All mutations are because information is now missing from the DNA strand.
View attachment 92910

Let's use dogs as an example. The wolf is the most diverse animal in that group, because it has the most complex DNA. Because of that all of our dogs today are probably decendants of Wolves. Why? People have bred them into unique shapes and sizes. Each change (mutation) in the animals offspring is due to a section of information being removed or replaced.
For example, I want a dog with short legs so I keep breeding those with the shortest legs. What I have done is removed the information about a wolfs long legs and replaced it with short legs. But the inbreeding has created other errors in the DNA with parts now missing. I want a breed of dog with a short nose. What I've done is remove the DNA information about a wolfs long nose. That's why many breeds have a large number of health issues - we have altered DNA so that information has been removed or replaced into mutations we call poodles and pit bulls. The DNA strand of our pet dogs is much shorter than that of wolves. The changes I have made are only removing or replacing information in that DNA strand. In nature information can never be created.
View attachment 92911
That is important to remember. Information does not get created in nature. It has never been observed in a lab and we don't even know how it would be possible. It would be like ten thousand scrabble pieces falling on the floor and creating a logical and grammer perfect story, except the scrabble pieces would also have to self replicate out of nothing. Yes, information in a DNA strand can be duplicated. But that is not new information, it is a mutation of existing information. An insect can lose their wings because that information about wings is now gone. The information about wings cannot be added naturally. A brown moth species can become a white moth species because the DNA is altered so that white is the only color option in the DNA information.
View attachment 92912

So let's go back to Darwin. Our starting point is some primeval goo. That goo then reproduced into insects and soybeans and eventually humans.
View attachment 92913

Here lies the problem that Darwin had no way of knowing. For each progression additional information must be added to the DNA. In order for the goo to become a soybean plant a lot of information must be added to the DNA strand. That single cell organism that has a strand length of 1 must somehow obtain the information to get to a strand length of 1,000 for the Soybean plant.
View attachment 92914

But in nature, information can only be removed, not created. The problem Darwin has is his theory must have additional information being added all of the time, and we know in nature exactly the opposite is what occurs.

For information to be created, it needs a creator.

So what really happened to start life? Each shall reproduce of its own kind it says in Genesis. So take the Darwin chart again.
View attachment 92913

Instead of you being a family member of soybeans, each species was created and evolved (mutated) from there. Something like a wolf was first created, then information was removed to create toy poodles and chihuahuas. So that is one branch started. Cows mutated into Black Angus and other breeds. Another branch started. So thousands of branches were created, humans being one of them. Each species has its own tree, but each species remains unique and unchanging into alternate species because DNA information cannot be added in nature.

For example, if you receive a lethal dose of radiation, the radiation does not kill your cells.

Enough radiation does kill your cells.

Radiation kills cells by damaging the DNA so it can not replicate.

Does that mean whites are inferior because they have less protection from the suns radiation?

You're being stupid again. Topic is about DNA information being created.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Darwin had no idea how reproduction worked in the age he lived in. Today we have a pretty good idea so let's look at how his theory fits into science.
View attachment 92909

Every cell in our body has DNA, and reproduces using that DNA. Everything we are is in that DNA strand. Yeah, you thought a blu-ray held a lot of information. Each cell in your body has that DNA strand that has all the information that is you in it.
So a single cell organism will have a DNA strand of a length, let's call it a length of 1 for the discussion. A horse will have a DNA strand length of 100,000. Longer because it has information about bones, eyes, ears, fur, etc.
View attachment 92904


When we reproduce each parent has DNA that is combined to make the offspring. If the DNA is split exactly 50/50 there are 2 possible outcomes for the offspring. In nature the DNA will be split between the parents in any combination, thus the offspring has over a million possible outcomes on their DNA. In this diagram there are 2 lines, each being the side of the double helix.
View attachment 92906
So when DNA replicates there is a sophisticated series of mechanisms that basically unzips the DNA and rezips it. Since every tiny section of that DNA is information as to who you are. Any error in the replication process is a mutation (there are mechanisms to repair these defects, but not for this discussion). For example, if you receive a lethal dose of radiation, the radiation does not kill your cells. What it does is damage the DNA so it cannot properly replicate. And since your body is having to constantly replace your cells, you soon die because your cells are not being replaced.

View attachment 92908

But let's say there is damage to the DNA that is nonlethal but there is enough DNA damage that causes a mutation in offspring. All mutations are because information is now missing from the DNA strand.
View attachment 92910

Let's use dogs as an example. The wolf is the most diverse animal in that group, because it has the most complex DNA. Because of that all of our dogs today are probably decendants of Wolves. Why? People have bred them into unique shapes and sizes. Each change (mutation) in the animals offspring is due to a section of information being removed or replaced.
For example, I want a dog with short legs so I keep breeding those with the shortest legs. What I have done is removed the information about a wolfs long legs and replaced it with short legs. But the inbreeding has created other errors in the DNA with parts now missing. I want a breed of dog with a short nose. What I've done is remove the DNA information about a wolfs long nose. That's why many breeds have a large number of health issues - we have altered DNA so that information has been removed or replaced into mutations we call poodles and pit bulls. The DNA strand of our pet dogs is much shorter than that of wolves. The changes I have made are only removing or replacing information in that DNA strand. In nature information can never be created.
View attachment 92911
That is important to remember. Information does not get created in nature. It has never been observed in a lab and we don't even know how it would be possible. It would be like ten thousand scrabble pieces falling on the floor and creating a logical and grammer perfect story, except the scrabble pieces would also have to self replicate out of nothing. Yes, information in a DNA strand can be duplicated. But that is not new information, it is a mutation of existing information. An insect can lose their wings because that information about wings is now gone. The information about wings cannot be added naturally. A brown moth species can become a white moth species because the DNA is altered so that white is the only color option in the DNA information.
View attachment 92912

So let's go back to Darwin. Our starting point is some primeval goo. That goo then reproduced into insects and soybeans and eventually humans.
View attachment 92913

Here lies the problem that Darwin had no way of knowing. For each progression additional information must be added to the DNA. In order for the goo to become a soybean plant a lot of information must be added to the DNA strand. That single cell organism that has a strand length of 1 must somehow obtain the information to get to a strand length of 1,000 for the Soybean plant.
View attachment 92914

But in nature, information can only be removed, not created. The problem Darwin has is his theory must have additional information being added all of the time, and we know in nature exactly the opposite is what occurs.

For information to be created, it needs a creator.

So what really happened to start life? Each shall reproduce of its own kind it says in Genesis. So take the Darwin chart again.
View attachment 92913

Instead of you being a family member of soybeans, each species was created and evolved (mutated) from there. Something like a wolf was first created, then information was removed to create toy poodles and chihuahuas. So that is one branch started. Cows mutated into Black Angus and other breeds. Another branch started. So thousands of branches were created, humans being one of them. Each species has its own tree, but each species remains unique and unchanging into alternate species because DNA information cannot be added in nature.

All mutations are because information is now missing from the DNA strand.

Or added. Or different.


But in nature, information can only be removed, not created.

That's not true.

 

[Asclepias]

Darwin had no idea how reproduction worked in the age he lived in. Today we have a pretty good idea so let's look at how his theory fits into science.
View attachment 92909

Every cell in our body has DNA, and reproduces using that DNA. Everything we are is in that DNA strand. Yeah, you thought a blu-ray held a lot of information. Each cell in your body has that DNA strand that has all the information that is you in it.
So a single cell organism will have a DNA strand of a length, let's call it a length of 1 for the discussion. A horse will have a DNA strand length of 100,000. Longer because it has information about bones, eyes, ears, fur, etc.
View attachment 92904


When we reproduce each parent has DNA that is combined to make the offspring. If the DNA is split exactly 50/50 there are 2 possible outcomes for the offspring. In nature the DNA will be split between the parents in any combination, thus the offspring has over a million possible outcomes on their DNA. In this diagram there are 2 lines, each being the side of the double helix.
View attachment 92906
So when DNA replicates there is a sophisticated series of mechanisms that basically unzips the DNA and rezips it. Since every tiny section of that DNA is information as to who you are. Any error in the replication process is a mutation (there are mechanisms to repair these defects, but not for this discussion). For example, if you receive a lethal dose of radiation, the radiation does not kill your cells. What it does is damage the DNA so it cannot properly replicate. And since your body is having to constantly replace your cells, you soon die because your cells are not being replaced.

View attachment 92908

But let's say there is damage to the DNA that is nonlethal but there is enough DNA damage that causes a mutation in offspring. All mutations are because information is now missing from the DNA strand.
View attachment 92910

Let's use dogs as an example. The wolf is the most diverse animal in that group, because it has the most complex DNA. Because of that all of our dogs today are probably decendants of Wolves. Why? People have bred them into unique shapes and sizes. Each change (mutation) in the animals offspring is due to a section of information being removed or replaced.
For example, I want a dog with short legs so I keep breeding those with the shortest legs. What I have done is removed the information about a wolfs long legs and replaced it with short legs. But the inbreeding has created other errors in the DNA with parts now missing. I want a breed of dog with a short nose. What I've done is remove the DNA information about a wolfs long nose. That's why many breeds have a large number of health issues - we have altered DNA so that information has been removed or replaced into mutations we call poodles and pit bulls. The DNA strand of our pet dogs is much shorter than that of wolves. The changes I have made are only removing or replacing information in that DNA strand. In nature information can never be created.
View attachment 92911
That is important to remember. Information does not get created in nature. It has never been observed in a lab and we don't even know how it would be possible. It would be like ten thousand scrabble pieces falling on the floor and creating a logical and grammer perfect story, except the scrabble pieces would also have to self replicate out of nothing. Yes, information in a DNA strand can be duplicated. But that is not new information, it is a mutation of existing information. An insect can lose their wings because that information about wings is now gone. The information about wings cannot be added naturally. A brown moth species can become a white moth species because the DNA is altered so that white is the only color option in the DNA information.
View attachment 92912

So let's go back to Darwin. Our starting point is some primeval goo. That goo then reproduced into insects and soybeans and eventually humans.
View attachment 92913

Here lies the problem that Darwin had no way of knowing. For each progression additional information must be added to the DNA. In order for the goo to become a soybean plant a lot of information must be added to the DNA strand. That single cell organism that has a strand length of 1 must somehow obtain the information to get to a strand length of 1,000 for the Soybean plant.
View attachment 92914

But in nature, information can only be removed, not created. The problem Darwin has is his theory must have additional information being added all of the time, and we know in nature exactly the opposite is what occurs.

For information to be created, it needs a creator.

So what really happened to start life? Each shall reproduce of its own kind it says in Genesis. So take the Darwin chart again.
View attachment 92913

Instead of you being a family member of soybeans, each species was created and evolved (mutated) from there. Something like a wolf was first created, then information was removed to create toy poodles and chihuahuas. So that is one branch started. Cows mutated into Black Angus and other breeds. Another branch started. So thousands of branches were created, humans being one of them. Each species has its own tree, but each species remains unique and unchanging into alternate species because DNA information cannot be added in nature.

For example, if you receive a lethal dose of radiation, the radiation does not kill your cells.

Enough radiation does kill your cells.

Radiation kills cells by damaging the DNA so it can not replicate.

Does that mean whites are inferior because they have less protection from the suns radiation?

You're being stupid again. Topic is about DNA information being created.

Are you claiming that DNA information cannot be created? Do you understand what an insertion mutation is?