CDZ The price of some stuff if it were made in the USA

[Skull Pilot]

My goodness. I feel bad for having to reply quickly to your dissertation. Thanks for taking the time to write out your thoughts so completely.

There is a 2nd level advantage to "Made In the USA" products.

To use your I-Phone math.

If a Chinese made I-Phone cost $749 then some portion of that $749 goes from our economy to China and their nuclear submarine program when I buy one.

A U.S. I-Phone at $849 cost me more initially but then (overly simply) my neighbor who sells I-Phones has $100 more to spend on mattresses my company makes and China has $0 more to spend on their military.

To balance that international trade though DOES help the military situation IMO. There is a Marshall Plan like effect to trading with the less developed and even your almost direct enemies like China.

but then again people who pay 100 more for a phone have 100 less to buy your products

 

[Tehon]

The economy is a tool that should be used to serve society.......not the other way around!

 

[frigidweirdo]

My goodness. I feel bad for having to reply quickly to your dissertation. Thanks for taking the time to write out your thoughts so completely.

There is a 2nd level advantage to "Made In the USA" products.

To use your I-Phone math.

If a Chinese made I-Phone cost $749 then some portion of that $749 goes from our economy to China and their nuclear submarine program when I buy one.

A U.S. I-Phone at $849 cost me more initially but then (overly simply) my neighbor who sells I-Phones has $100 more to spend on mattresses my company makes and China has $0 more to spend on their military.

To balance that international trade though DOES help the military situation IMO. There is a Marshall Plan like effect to trading with the less developed and even your almost direct enemies like China.

Not necessarily. Because things cost more, people buy LESS, therefore people don't have more money to spend, or some do, but others don't because there are then less jobs.

We don't need to buy inexpensive goods that are produced in low wage countries. We can produce goods here and pay people a livable wage. Sure things will cost more and profits will be less but the benefit will be that we have a more fully functioning and more stable society as a result. The economy is a tool that should be used to benefit the society as a whole. At the present it is dysfunctional.

Again, I've done this already, there are consequences to buying more expensive products, which is that people's wage essentially goes down, less people are buying, which means the country doesn't produce as much in the first place anyway.

People make money out of cheaper products, even in the US, distributors, shops, transportation etc, it is often better to have cheaper items made abroad while higher quality items are made at home by a higher educated workforce. But the US seems to not like higher educated workers, for some reason.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The economy is a tool that should be used to serve society.......not the other way around!

Doesn't it serve society? We do know that internal looking societies aren't as rich. The US got massively rich from being global, if it goes less global it'll lose a LOT of money. The US makes so much money from abroad, as soon as it puts tariffs up, other countries will retaliate, and the US will suffer.

 

[Fueri]

My goodness. I feel bad for having to reply quickly to your dissertation. Thanks for taking the time to write out your thoughts so completely.

There is a 2nd level advantage to "Made In the USA" products.

To use your I-Phone math.

If a Chinese made I-Phone cost $749 then some portion of that $749 goes from our economy to China and their nuclear submarine program when I buy one.

A U.S. I-Phone at $849 cost me more initially but then (overly simply) my neighbor who sells I-Phones has $100 more to spend on mattresses my company makes and China has $0 more to spend on their military.

To balance that international trade though DOES help the military situation IMO. There is a Marshall Plan like effect to trading with the less developed and even your almost direct enemies like China.

Not necessarily. Because things cost more, people buy LESS, therefore people don't have more money to spend, or some do, but others don't because there are then less jobs.

Good, perhaps people will start living within their means if they realize they can't afford a phone that costs $850.00. Specifically with a cell phone, many are on 0% interest installment plans, so it wouldn't effect people that much anyways. On a typical 24 month AT&T next plan, the price of the phone would go up $4.16 a month (if the phone were $100 more expensive).

Yep, the tech companies have successfully convinced people that they need these high tech phones. In reality, most don't. I don't carry one of these things any longer as I realized I just wasn't using it enough to justify the annual cost.

Considering that an iPhone or g7 with plan is about 80 bucks a month, for a person making 80k a year that represents ~1% of their gross income. Of course that's approximate, and there are exceptions. Some people pay less, some people make more (or less), some people's phones are paid via work, whatever, but at the end of the day that's quite a chunk to take pictures of your lunch and post them to social media.

It's also true that Apple's gross margin is immense, somewhere in the 40% range, so we know the price could, and likely would, come down if demand fell.

 

[Tehon]

Doesn't it serve society?

You are telling me that we have to accept that a segment of our society, our manufacturing base, has to find a new way of living because we need to buy cheap products to keep the economy moving. That to me indicates that we are subservient to the economy.

Forcing our workforce to compete with low wage workers in foreign countries has had a destabilizing effect on our society. Donald Trump is proof positive, though it should have been obvious to everyone before the unfortunate happened.

 

[Slashsnake]

and no, I don't mean Steve Jobs

??? What? Why would anyone think you did?

The Pancreatic Cancer That Killed Steve Jobs | TIME.com​

It was a joke and a pun.

 

[Slashsnake]

My goodness. I feel bad for having to reply quickly to your dissertation. Thanks for taking the time to write out your thoughts so completely.

There is a 2nd level advantage to "Made In the USA" products.

To use your I-Phone math.

If a Chinese made I-Phone cost $749 then some portion of that $749 goes from our economy to China and their nuclear submarine program when I buy one.

A U.S. I-Phone at $849 cost me more initially but then (overly simply) my neighbor who sells I-Phones has $100 more to spend on mattresses my company makes and China has $0 more to spend on their military.

To balance that international trade though DOES help the military situation IMO. There is a Marshall Plan like effect to trading with the less developed and even your almost direct enemies like China.

Not necessarily. Because things cost more, people buy LESS, therefore people don't have more money to spend, or some do, but others don't because there are then less jobs.

Good, perhaps people will start living within their means if they realize they can't afford a phone that costs $850.00. Specifically with a cell phone, many are on 0% interest installment plans, so it wouldn't effect people that much anyways. On a typical 24 month AT&T next plan, the price of the phone would go up $4.16 a month (if the phone were $100 more expensive).

Yep, the tech companies have successfully convinced people that they need these high tech phones. In reality, most don't. I don't carry one of these things any longer as I realized I just wasn't using it enough to justify the annual cost.

Considering that an iPhone or g7 with plan is about 80 bucks a month, for a person making 80k a year that represents ~1% of their gross income. Of course that's approximate, and there are exceptions. Some people pay less, some people make more (or less), some people's phones are paid via work, whatever, but at the end of the day that's quite a chunk to take pictures of your lunch and post them to social media.

It's also true that Apple's gross margin is immense, somewhere in the 40% range, so we know the price could, and likely would, come down if demand fell.

If Steve were alive the profit margins would've held steadily in the 20%'s and 30%'s, but since Cook can't innovate he has to put his profit margin target in the upper 30%'s and lower 40%'s in order to please the stockholders and make the company look like it isn't sinking. iPhone sales will begin to drop sharply within the next few years for more mid-range devices. Heck, I used to be the type to want to upgrade every year, but lately I've been trying other devices with little happiness and I'm still on my 6 plus (not 6S plus).

 

[Slashsnake]

My goodness. I feel bad for having to reply quickly to your dissertation. Thanks for taking the time to write out your thoughts so completely.

There is a 2nd level advantage to "Made In the USA" products.

To use your I-Phone math.

If a Chinese made I-Phone cost $749 then some portion of that $749 goes from our economy to China and their nuclear submarine program when I buy one.

A U.S. I-Phone at $849 cost me more initially but then (overly simply) my neighbor who sells I-Phones has $100 more to spend on mattresses my company makes and China has $0 more to spend on their military.

To balance that international trade though DOES help the military situation IMO. There is a Marshall Plan like effect to trading with the less developed and even your almost direct enemies like China.

Not necessarily. Because things cost more, people buy LESS, therefore people don't have more money to spend, or some do, but others don't because there are then less jobs.

We don't need to buy inexpensive goods that are produced in low wage countries. We can produce goods here and pay people a livable wage. Sure things will cost more and profits will be less but the benefit will be that we have a more fully functioning and more stable society as a result. The economy is a tool that should be used to benefit the society as a whole. At the present it is dysfunctional.

Again, I've done this already, there are consequences to buying more expensive products, which is that people's wage essentially goes down, less people are buying, which means the country doesn't produce as much in the first place anyway.

People make money out of cheaper products, even in the US, distributors, shops, transportation etc, it is often better to have cheaper items made abroad while higher quality items are made at home by a higher educated workforce. But the US seems to not like higher educated workers, for some reason.

There are no consequences to buying more expensive products if they're made here compared to overseas. A person's wage doesn't suddenly go down, their wage stays the same, but now they're paying a more accurate price tag of what the item should've cost all along. You don't HAVE to buy the $850 iPhone, you can still purchase the $400 Samsung J6 if you can't afford the iPhone, which Samsung is a company that does import its products because they're based on Korea. Apple doesn't "compete on lower end phones," which isn't anyone's problem but their own and they're free to run their company that way, but now they'll have to either lose market share or lower their prices at some point.

You need an Apple iPhone about as badly as you need a thong sold by Victoria's secret, there's similar, more affordable items that are just as good sold by other companies.

 

[Tehon]

Again, I've done this already, there are consequences to buying more expensive products, which is that people's wage essentially goes down, less people are buying, which means the country doesn't produce as much in the first place anyway.

The consequences of buying cheaper goods made in foreign countries include lower wages, the loss of jobs and increased tax burden to pay for the social costs of increased unemployment.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Doesn't it serve society?

You are telling me that we have to accept that a segment of our society, our manufacturing base, has to find a new way of living because we need to buy cheap products to keep the economy moving. That to me indicates that we are subservient to the economy.

Forcing our workforce to compete with low wage workers in foreign countries has had a destabilizing effect on our society. Donald Trump is proof positive, though it should have been obvious to everyone before the unfortunate happened.

The problem with your argument is that I'm telling you the US shouldn't be competing with low wage workers, it should be competing with high wage workers with high levels of education, that's how you make money. The US works based on a global system, has done since, well, since 1776, but in the last 100 years or so it has enriched itself from the global system. The US could go and isolate itself and see just how much money it makes from abroad, or it could live with the reality and educated the workforce better, direct the economy towards a niches in the market like the Germans do. You think quality cars you think Italy and Germany. You think efficient cars you think Japan. What does the US have? I think of the US auto industry and I think failure with Detroit more than anything else, not efficiency, not quality, but nothing much.

If you think this is the people are subservient to the economy, then so be it, but who isn't subservient? The Soviets maybe weren't. They controlled their economy. How'd that work for them?

 

[frigidweirdo]

My goodness. I feel bad for having to reply quickly to your dissertation. Thanks for taking the time to write out your thoughts so completely.

There is a 2nd level advantage to "Made In the USA" products.

To use your I-Phone math.

If a Chinese made I-Phone cost $749 then some portion of that $749 goes from our economy to China and their nuclear submarine program when I buy one.

A U.S. I-Phone at $849 cost me more initially but then (overly simply) my neighbor who sells I-Phones has $100 more to spend on mattresses my company makes and China has $0 more to spend on their military.

To balance that international trade though DOES help the military situation IMO. There is a Marshall Plan like effect to trading with the less developed and even your almost direct enemies like China.

Not necessarily. Because things cost more, people buy LESS, therefore people don't have more money to spend, or some do, but others don't because there are then less jobs.

We don't need to buy inexpensive goods that are produced in low wage countries. We can produce goods here and pay people a livable wage. Sure things will cost more and profits will be less but the benefit will be that we have a more fully functioning and more stable society as a result. The economy is a tool that should be used to benefit the society as a whole. At the present it is dysfunctional.

Again, I've done this already, there are consequences to buying more expensive products, which is that people's wage essentially goes down, less people are buying, which means the country doesn't produce as much in the first place anyway.

People make money out of cheaper products, even in the US, distributors, shops, transportation etc, it is often better to have cheaper items made abroad while higher quality items are made at home by a higher educated workforce. But the US seems to not like higher educated workers, for some reason.

There are no consequences to buying more expensive products if they're made here compared to overseas. A person's wage doesn't suddenly go down, their wage stays the same, but now they're paying a more accurate price tag of what the item should've cost all along. You don't HAVE to buy the $850 iPhone, you can still purchase the $400 Samsung J6 if you can't afford the iPhone, which Samsung is a company that does import its products because they're based on Korea. Apple doesn't "compete on lower end phones," which isn't anyone's problem but their own and they're free to run their company that way, but now they'll have to either lose market share or lower their prices at some point.

You need an Apple iPhone about as badly as you need a thong sold by Victoria's secret, there's similar, more affordable items that are just as good sold by other companies.

Yes, it does.

Say you earn $2000 a month. Bread costs $1 a day. You have a pretty decent wage. Say bread suddenly becomes $10 a day. Do you suddenly have such a good wage? No, you don't, the value of your money isn't the same.

Some people have money to burn. But other people don't and they can choose which products to buy and will live within a certain amount of money.

Consequences of making an internal policy, forcing Apple to make products at home will mean the Chinese, especially the Chinese, will then develop more high quality products to replace US products that will inevitably cost more, and then Apple will struggle as a business.

Such a policy would make it harder for US companies to do business abroad. They might do better at home because of tariffs on foreign goods, but the US market is 300 million people. The market for Apple worldwide is billions of people. Think about it.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Again, I've done this already, there are consequences to buying more expensive products, which is that people's wage essentially goes down, less people are buying, which means the country doesn't produce as much in the first place anyway.

The consequences of buying cheaper goods made in foreign countries include lower wages, the loss of jobs and increased tax burden to pay for the social costs of increased unemployment.

You're assuming it'll lead to more unemployment. That's not always the case.

Like with automation. Everyone assumes that automation leads to unemployment. Yet we've got a much better level of life, and not a massive level of unemployment because of 200 years of automation.

Even foreign goods provide jobs. Transportation, sales people etc.

If the US is buying foreign goods, it's also selling goods to foreign countries, hence making money.

Go look up what the World Bank got up to. Forcing Bolivia to privatize companies, like the water industry, dairy industry and the US has been making itself fat off of this. You really don't know the consequences of becoming more internal.

http://trade.gov/press/press-releases/2016/export-factsheet-120616.pdf

While US trade has a deficit, there are shareholders and things that change this equation massively. It's not so simple to just look at statistics like this. How many Americans own shares in foreign companies and make money from this? Think about it.

 

[Slashsnake]

My goodness. I feel bad for having to reply quickly to your dissertation. Thanks for taking the time to write out your thoughts so completely.

There is a 2nd level advantage to "Made In the USA" products.

To use your I-Phone math.

If a Chinese made I-Phone cost $749 then some portion of that $749 goes from our economy to China and their nuclear submarine program when I buy one.

A U.S. I-Phone at $849 cost me more initially but then (overly simply) my neighbor who sells I-Phones has $100 more to spend on mattresses my company makes and China has $0 more to spend on their military.

To balance that international trade though DOES help the military situation IMO. There is a Marshall Plan like effect to trading with the less developed and even your almost direct enemies like China.

Not necessarily. Because things cost more, people buy LESS, therefore people don't have more money to spend, or some do, but others don't because there are then less jobs.

We don't need to buy inexpensive goods that are produced in low wage countries. We can produce goods here and pay people a livable wage. Sure things will cost more and profits will be less but the benefit will be that we have a more fully functioning and more stable society as a result. The economy is a tool that should be used to benefit the society as a whole. At the present it is dysfunctional.

Again, I've done this already, there are consequences to buying more expensive products, which is that people's wage essentially goes down, less people are buying, which means the country doesn't produce as much in the first place anyway.

People make money out of cheaper products, even in the US, distributors, shops, transportation etc, it is often better to have cheaper items made abroad while higher quality items are made at home by a higher educated workforce. But the US seems to not like higher educated workers, for some reason.

There are no consequences to buying more expensive products if they're made here compared to overseas. A person's wage doesn't suddenly go down, their wage stays the same, but now they're paying a more accurate price tag of what the item should've cost all along. You don't HAVE to buy the $850 iPhone, you can still purchase the $400 Samsung J6 if you can't afford the iPhone, which Samsung is a company that does import its products because they're based on Korea. Apple doesn't "compete on lower end phones," which isn't anyone's problem but their own and they're free to run their company that way, but now they'll have to either lose market share or lower their prices at some point.

You need an Apple iPhone about as badly as you need a thong sold by Victoria's secret, there's similar, more affordable items that are just as good sold by other companies.

Yes, it does.

Say you earn $2000 a month. Bread costs $1 a day. You have a pretty decent wage. Say bread suddenly becomes $10 a day. Do you suddenly have such a good wage? No, you don't, the value of your money isn't the same.

Some people have money to burn. But other people don't and they can choose which products to buy and will live within a certain amount of money.

Consequences of making an internal policy, forcing Apple to make products at home will mean the Chinese, especially the Chinese, will then develop more high quality products to replace US products that will inevitably cost more, and then Apple will struggle as a business.

Such a policy would make it harder for US companies to do business abroad. They might do better at home because of tariffs on foreign goods, but the US market is 300 million people. The market for Apple worldwide is billions of people. Think about it.

Terrible argument because prices will never go up 1000% just because they're made here in America. You're looking at most, a 20% increase in the price of most items. You also need to look at some other facts, America is by far Apple's biggest market, and most people in China don't buy iPhones because they can't afford them. If you export to China, America makes money. If you import from China, China makes money.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Not necessarily. Because things cost more, people buy LESS, therefore people don't have more money to spend, or some do, but others don't because there are then less jobs.

We don't need to buy inexpensive goods that are produced in low wage countries. We can produce goods here and pay people a livable wage. Sure things will cost more and profits will be less but the benefit will be that we have a more fully functioning and more stable society as a result. The economy is a tool that should be used to benefit the society as a whole. At the present it is dysfunctional.

Again, I've done this already, there are consequences to buying more expensive products, which is that people's wage essentially goes down, less people are buying, which means the country doesn't produce as much in the first place anyway.

People make money out of cheaper products, even in the US, distributors, shops, transportation etc, it is often better to have cheaper items made abroad while higher quality items are made at home by a higher educated workforce. But the US seems to not like higher educated workers, for some reason.

There are no consequences to buying more expensive products if they're made here compared to overseas. A person's wage doesn't suddenly go down, their wage stays the same, but now they're paying a more accurate price tag of what the item should've cost all along. You don't HAVE to buy the $850 iPhone, you can still purchase the $400 Samsung J6 if you can't afford the iPhone, which Samsung is a company that does import its products because they're based on Korea. Apple doesn't "compete on lower end phones," which isn't anyone's problem but their own and they're free to run their company that way, but now they'll have to either lose market share or lower their prices at some point.

You need an Apple iPhone about as badly as you need a thong sold by Victoria's secret, there's similar, more affordable items that are just as good sold by other companies.

Yes, it does.

Say you earn $2000 a month. Bread costs $1 a day. You have a pretty decent wage. Say bread suddenly becomes $10 a day. Do you suddenly have such a good wage? No, you don't, the value of your money isn't the same.

Some people have money to burn. But other people don't and they can choose which products to buy and will live within a certain amount of money.

Consequences of making an internal policy, forcing Apple to make products at home will mean the Chinese, especially the Chinese, will then develop more high quality products to replace US products that will inevitably cost more, and then Apple will struggle as a business.

Such a policy would make it harder for US companies to do business abroad. They might do better at home because of tariffs on foreign goods, but the US market is 300 million people. The market for Apple worldwide is billions of people. Think about it.

Terrible argument because prices will never go up 1000% just because they're made here in America. You're looking at most, a 20% increase in the price of most items. You also need to look at some other facts, America is by far Apple's biggest market, and most people in China don't buy iPhones because they can't afford them. If you export to China, America makes money. If you import from China, China makes money.

I didn't say that prices would rise 1000%, did I?

As for iPhones and the like, Apple is just one example. China is a growing country and it's getting richer. US companies are at an important time right now, where they can corner the market in the China or disappear without a trace. Trump seems to want the latter. But there are plenty of companies with sales outside of the US who will be impacted massively by such policies as Trump is suggesting.

 

[Slashsnake]

We don't need to buy inexpensive goods that are produced in low wage countries. We can produce goods here and pay people a livable wage. Sure things will cost more and profits will be less but the benefit will be that we have a more fully functioning and more stable society as a result. The economy is a tool that should be used to benefit the society as a whole. At the present it is dysfunctional.

Again, I've done this already, there are consequences to buying more expensive products, which is that people's wage essentially goes down, less people are buying, which means the country doesn't produce as much in the first place anyway.

People make money out of cheaper products, even in the US, distributors, shops, transportation etc, it is often better to have cheaper items made abroad while higher quality items are made at home by a higher educated workforce. But the US seems to not like higher educated workers, for some reason.

There are no consequences to buying more expensive products if they're made here compared to overseas. A person's wage doesn't suddenly go down, their wage stays the same, but now they're paying a more accurate price tag of what the item should've cost all along. You don't HAVE to buy the $850 iPhone, you can still purchase the $400 Samsung J6 if you can't afford the iPhone, which Samsung is a company that does import its products because they're based on Korea. Apple doesn't "compete on lower end phones," which isn't anyone's problem but their own and they're free to run their company that way, but now they'll have to either lose market share or lower their prices at some point.

You need an Apple iPhone about as badly as you need a thong sold by Victoria's secret, there's similar, more affordable items that are just as good sold by other companies.

Yes, it does.

Say you earn $2000 a month. Bread costs $1 a day. You have a pretty decent wage. Say bread suddenly becomes $10 a day. Do you suddenly have such a good wage? No, you don't, the value of your money isn't the same.

Some people have money to burn. But other people don't and they can choose which products to buy and will live within a certain amount of money.

Consequences of making an internal policy, forcing Apple to make products at home will mean the Chinese, especially the Chinese, will then develop more high quality products to replace US products that will inevitably cost more, and then Apple will struggle as a business.

Such a policy would make it harder for US companies to do business abroad. They might do better at home because of tariffs on foreign goods, but the US market is 300 million people. The market for Apple worldwide is billions of people. Think about it.

Terrible argument because prices will never go up 1000% just because they're made here in America. You're looking at most, a 20% increase in the price of most items. You also need to look at some other facts, America is by far Apple's biggest market, and most people in China don't buy iPhones because they can't afford them. If you export to China, America makes money. If you import from China, China makes money.

I didn't say that prices would rise 1000%, did I?

As for iPhones and the like, Apple is just one example. China is a growing country and it's getting richer. US companies are at an important time right now, where they can corner the market in the China or disappear without a trace. Trump seems to want the latter. But there are plenty of companies with sales outside of the US who will be impacted massively by such policies as Trump is suggesting.

From $1 to $10 is a 1,000% increase.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Again, I've done this already, there are consequences to buying more expensive products, which is that people's wage essentially goes down, less people are buying, which means the country doesn't produce as much in the first place anyway.

People make money out of cheaper products, even in the US, distributors, shops, transportation etc, it is often better to have cheaper items made abroad while higher quality items are made at home by a higher educated workforce. But the US seems to not like higher educated workers, for some reason.

There are no consequences to buying more expensive products if they're made here compared to overseas. A person's wage doesn't suddenly go down, their wage stays the same, but now they're paying a more accurate price tag of what the item should've cost all along. You don't HAVE to buy the $850 iPhone, you can still purchase the $400 Samsung J6 if you can't afford the iPhone, which Samsung is a company that does import its products because they're based on Korea. Apple doesn't "compete on lower end phones," which isn't anyone's problem but their own and they're free to run their company that way, but now they'll have to either lose market share or lower their prices at some point.

You need an Apple iPhone about as badly as you need a thong sold by Victoria's secret, there's similar, more affordable items that are just as good sold by other companies.

Yes, it does.

Say you earn $2000 a month. Bread costs $1 a day. You have a pretty decent wage. Say bread suddenly becomes $10 a day. Do you suddenly have such a good wage? No, you don't, the value of your money isn't the same.

Some people have money to burn. But other people don't and they can choose which products to buy and will live within a certain amount of money.

Consequences of making an internal policy, forcing Apple to make products at home will mean the Chinese, especially the Chinese, will then develop more high quality products to replace US products that will inevitably cost more, and then Apple will struggle as a business.

Such a policy would make it harder for US companies to do business abroad. They might do better at home because of tariffs on foreign goods, but the US market is 300 million people. The market for Apple worldwide is billions of people. Think about it.

Terrible argument because prices will never go up 1000% just because they're made here in America. You're looking at most, a 20% increase in the price of most items. You also need to look at some other facts, America is by far Apple's biggest market, and most people in China don't buy iPhones because they can't afford them. If you export to China, America makes money. If you import from China, China makes money.

I didn't say that prices would rise 1000%, did I?

As for iPhones and the like, Apple is just one example. China is a growing country and it's getting richer. US companies are at an important time right now, where they can corner the market in the China or disappear without a trace. Trump seems to want the latter. But there are plenty of companies with sales outside of the US who will be impacted massively by such policies as Trump is suggesting.

From $1 to $10 is a 1,000% increase.

Well done. However when I was speaking said said "Say you ear $2000 a month" and then I said "Say bread suddenly becomes $10"..... I didn't say this would happen, I was figuring the people I'm conversing with have the ability to understand the word "say", but hey, maybe you're a Mexican illegal immigrant struggling with your English....

 

[Tehon]

Doesn't it serve society?

You are telling me that we have to accept that a segment of our society, our manufacturing base, has to find a new way of living because we need to buy cheap products to keep the economy moving. That to me indicates that we are subservient to the economy.

Forcing our workforce to compete with low wage workers in foreign countries has had a destabilizing effect on our society. Donald Trump is proof positive, though it should have been obvious to everyone before the unfortunate happened.

The problem with your argument is that I'm telling you the US shouldn't be competing with low wage workers, it should be competing with high wage workers with high levels of education, that's how you make money. The US works based on a global system, has done since, well, since 1776, but in the last 100 years or so it has enriched itself from the global system. The US could go and isolate itself and see just how much money it makes from abroad, or it could live with the reality and educated the workforce better, direct the economy towards a niches in the market like the Germans do. You think quality cars you think Italy and Germany. You think efficient cars you think Japan. What does the US have? I think of the US auto industry and I think failure with Detroit more than anything else, not efficiency, not quality, but nothing much.

If you think this is the people are subservient to the economy, then so be it, but who isn't subservient? The Soviets maybe weren't. They controlled their economy. How'd that work for them?

Our workforce shouldn't be placed in competition with less developed societies. It lowers our standards of living and causes societal ills that aren't always easy to measure in economic terms. That is a sound argument that is clearly evident. It requires no dancing around low wage, high wage, specialization or anything else you want to throw out there.

Let capital roam the planet. Let it compete in different regions based on the laws and customs of those regions. But don't let it game the value added relationship with labor. It is destructive to our social cohesion.

 

[Slashsnake]

There are no consequences to buying more expensive products if they're made here compared to overseas. A person's wage doesn't suddenly go down, their wage stays the same, but now they're paying a more accurate price tag of what the item should've cost all along. You don't HAVE to buy the $850 iPhone, you can still purchase the $400 Samsung J6 if you can't afford the iPhone, which Samsung is a company that does import its products because they're based on Korea. Apple doesn't "compete on lower end phones," which isn't anyone's problem but their own and they're free to run their company that way, but now they'll have to either lose market share or lower their prices at some point.

You need an Apple iPhone about as badly as you need a thong sold by Victoria's secret, there's similar, more affordable items that are just as good sold by other companies.

Yes, it does.

Say you earn $2000 a month. Bread costs $1 a day. You have a pretty decent wage. Say bread suddenly becomes $10 a day. Do you suddenly have such a good wage? No, you don't, the value of your money isn't the same.

Some people have money to burn. But other people don't and they can choose which products to buy and will live within a certain amount of money.

Consequences of making an internal policy, forcing Apple to make products at home will mean the Chinese, especially the Chinese, will then develop more high quality products to replace US products that will inevitably cost more, and then Apple will struggle as a business.

Such a policy would make it harder for US companies to do business abroad. They might do better at home because of tariffs on foreign goods, but the US market is 300 million people. The market for Apple worldwide is billions of people. Think about it.

Terrible argument because prices will never go up 1000% just because they're made here in America. You're looking at most, a 20% increase in the price of most items. You also need to look at some other facts, America is by far Apple's biggest market, and most people in China don't buy iPhones because they can't afford them. If you export to China, America makes money. If you import from China, China makes money.

I didn't say that prices would rise 1000%, did I?

As for iPhones and the like, Apple is just one example. China is a growing country and it's getting richer. US companies are at an important time right now, where they can corner the market in the China or disappear without a trace. Trump seems to want the latter. But there are plenty of companies with sales outside of the US who will be impacted massively by such policies as Trump is suggesting.

From $1 to $10 is a 1,000% increase.

Well done. However when I was speaking said said "Say you ear $2000 a month" and then I said "Say bread suddenly becomes $10"..... I didn't say this would happen, I was figuring the people I'm conversing with have the ability to understand the word "say", but hey, maybe you're a Mexican illegal immigrant struggling with your English....

If you're going to state an example I'm going to use the example against you if it doesn't make sense... I do the same thing with the people over on the Obamacare board. At least use a realistic example for argument's sake.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yes, it does.

Say you earn $2000 a month. Bread costs $1 a day. You have a pretty decent wage. Say bread suddenly becomes $10 a day. Do you suddenly have such a good wage? No, you don't, the value of your money isn't the same.

Some people have money to burn. But other people don't and they can choose which products to buy and will live within a certain amount of money.

Consequences of making an internal policy, forcing Apple to make products at home will mean the Chinese, especially the Chinese, will then develop more high quality products to replace US products that will inevitably cost more, and then Apple will struggle as a business.

Such a policy would make it harder for US companies to do business abroad. They might do better at home because of tariffs on foreign goods, but the US market is 300 million people. The market for Apple worldwide is billions of people. Think about it.

Terrible argument because prices will never go up 1000% just because they're made here in America. You're looking at most, a 20% increase in the price of most items. You also need to look at some other facts, America is by far Apple's biggest market, and most people in China don't buy iPhones because they can't afford them. If you export to China, America makes money. If you import from China, China makes money.

I didn't say that prices would rise 1000%, did I?

As for iPhones and the like, Apple is just one example. China is a growing country and it's getting richer. US companies are at an important time right now, where they can corner the market in the China or disappear without a trace. Trump seems to want the latter. But there are plenty of companies with sales outside of the US who will be impacted massively by such policies as Trump is suggesting.

From $1 to $10 is a 1,000% increase.

Well done. However when I was speaking said said "Say you ear $2000 a month" and then I said "Say bread suddenly becomes $10"..... I didn't say this would happen, I was figuring the people I'm conversing with have the ability to understand the word "say", but hey, maybe you're a Mexican illegal immigrant struggling with your English....

If you're going to state an example I'm going to use the example against you if it doesn't make sense... I do the same thing with the people over on the Obamacare board. At least use a realistic example for argument's sake.

Dude, I really can't be bothered if you get fucking hang ups about me making a point without using something you deem realistic. Stop being so fucking pedantic.