calm yourself Churchill did what Churchill did for Great Britain and for Churchill----the jews had nothing to do with it-----when arabs were restless the brits let arabs kill jews----or the brits let jews die struggling to get into palestine. The brits had the same approach in India----if they could calm some restless people by letting them kill some other people-----the looked aside and hummed HAIL BRITANNIA
The "Palestinians" Gave Up Sovereign Claims Long Ago
- Thread starter YKohen
- Start date
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
- 86,532
- 4,889
- 1,815
try again couger----the JEWISH POPULATION IN PALESTINE LIVED THERE-------they were not "absentee" You islamo nazis are funny-----you claim that jews INVADED PALESTINE in the late 1800s and then you claim-------the invasion was -------LONG DISTANCE -------what did they do INVADE VIA TELEPHONE?
YKohen
Senior Member
- Thread starter
- #144
You know. I love it when people raise that issue. See, the whole thing started when the Arabs violently rejected UN 181. Everything afterwards was a result of them rejecting 181.
Them trying to hide behind that nonsense is laughable- like the guy who murders his parents and then cries for mercy on the grounds that he's an orphan.
The simple fact is that Jews always lived in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza. What is illegal was the Arabs ethnically cleansing every last Jew from here in 1948 (1929 and 1936 in some areas, like Hebron, most of Gaza, parts of Jerusalem, and elsewhere).
We have righted a wrong.
And it isn't our problem that the would-have-been "Palestinians" gave up all sovereign claims.
YKohen
Senior Member
- Thread starter
- #145
Since as you see above, the would-have-been "Palestinians" gave up claims to it in 1964, and in any case, WE HAVE A LEGAL RIGHT TO LIVE HERE, that would make you incorrect.
Can you show how:
1. The would-have-been "Palestinians" were lying when they issued the 1964 PLO Charter?
2. Professor Rostow was incorrect?
Please cite specific points.
Billo_Really
Litre of the Band
181 was not a fair plan. What person in their right mind would give up 70% of the land they've been living on for generations, to people migrating into the area? Besides, 181 did not give Gaza and the West Bank to Israel.
And you got that ethnic cleansing crap backwards. Over 700,000 indigenous arabs were driven from Palestine due to jewish terrorism. Arabs and jews had been living in this area for a 1000 years with no major violence. That all changed when zionists showed up practicing their racist, apartheid policies regarding land ownership.
You cannot move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there. And there isn't a single country on this planet that recognizes Israel's right to that land. So give it up, it ain't happening.
YKohen
Senior Member
- Thread starter
- #147
1. It wasn't fair to the Jews- but we accepted it anyway.
2. Most of the Arabs were relatively recent arrivals. For instance, in the 1840s, there were a grand total of 5000 Muslims living in Jerusalem. Yes- there were more Jews even then.
3. Israel accepted UN 181, even though it didn't include Judea, Samaria, or Gaza- or Jerusalem, where Jews were a huge majority. Israel accepted UN 181, even though it gave us a land that was 2/3 desert- with the Arabs getting the best land. Israel accepted UN 181, even though it gave theJews a Bantustan state sthat was indefensible, with the Arabs controlling the high ground.
4. I got the ethnic cleansing right. Jews lived in places. The Arabs forcibly expelled every last one. That didn't happen the other way around.
This is why there are over a million Arab citizens of Israel today.
“The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by order of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of Haifa a ghost city.... By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa."
- Time Magazine, May 3, 1948, page 25
"[The Arabs of Haifa] fled in spite of the fact that the Jewish authorities guaranteed their safety and rights as citizens of Israel."
- Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, New York Herald Tribune, June 30, 1949
"Israelis argue that the Arab states encouraged the Palestinians to flee. And, in fact, Arabs still living in Israel recall being urged to evacuate Haifa by Arab military commanders who wanted to bomb the city."
- Newsweek, January 20, 1963
“The Arab states do not want to solve the refugee problem. They want to keep it as an open sore, as an affront to the United Nations, and as a weapon against Israel. Arab leaders do not give a damn whether Arab refugees live or die.”
- Ralph Galloway, Director of UNRWA, 1958
Even Muammar Qaddafi admitted it!
“It is a fact that Palestinians inhabited the land and owned farms and homes there until recently, fleeing in fear of violence at the hands of Jews after 1948 - violence that did not occur, but rumors of which led to a mass exodus. It is important to note that the Jews did not forcibly expel Palestinians…”
The New York Times - Breaking News, World News & Multimedia
YKohen
Senior Member
- Thread starter
- #148
As to the "living in peace" bs, try reality:
1517: Safed pogrom: After having murdered the Ottoman governor, the mob turned upon the Jews and rampaged through the Jewish quarter. Many Jews were killed while others were wounded or had their property pillaged. According to one contemporary source, the Jews were "evicted from their homes, robbed and plundered, and they fled naked to the villages without any provisions." Many subsequently fled the city.
1517 Safed pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1834: Jews (and Christians) massacred by Muslims in Jerusalem, Safed, and Hebron. See:
1834 Arab revolt in Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1834 Safed pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1834 Hebron pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1857: Herman Melville writes of his visit to the Holy Land:
Â…Rode from Ramlah to Lydda. A robbery of a village near by, by party of Arabs, alarms the whole country. People travel in bands. We rode to Lydda in train of the Governor's son. A mounted escort of some 30 men, all armedÂ….
Â…The Jews dare not live outside walled towns or villages for fear of the malicious persecution of the Arabs & TurksÂ….
- The Journals of Herman Melville (January, 1857)
http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~ehrlich/361/melville_journals.html
1920 Arab Riots: There's what happened in Jerusalem:
By 10:30 a.m. on April 4, 1920, 60,000–70,000 Arabs had already congregated in the city square, and groups of them had already been attacking Jews in the Old City's alleys for over an hour; the Jews hid. Inflammatory anti-Zionist rhetoric was being delivered from the balcony of the Arab Club. One inciter was Hajj Amin al-Husayni; his uncle, the mayor, spoke from the municipal building's balcony.
The editor of the newspaper Suriya al-Janubia (Southern Syria), Aref al-Aref, delivered his speech on horseback. The crowd shouted "Independence! Independence!" and "Palestine is our land, the Jews are our dogs!" Arab police joined in applause, and violence started. The Arab local population ransacked the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem. The Torath Chaim Yeshiva was raided, and Torah scrolls were torn and thrown on the floor, and the building then set alight. During the next three hours, 160 Jews were wounded other than an unknown number of Arabs.
Khalil al-Sakakini witnessed the eruption of violence in the Old City:
"[A] riot broke out, the people began to run about and stones were thrown at the Jews. The shops were closed and there were screams... I saw a Zionist soldier covered in dust and blood... Afterwards, I saw one Hebronite approach a Jewish shoeshine boy, who hid behind a sack in one of the wall's comers next to Jaffa Gate, and take his box and beat him over the head. He screamed and began to run, his head bleeding and the Hebronite left him and returned to the procession... The riot reached its zenith. All shouted, "Muhammad's religion was born with the sword"... I immediately walked to the municipal garden... my soul is nauseated and depressed by the madness of humankind."
1920 Nebi Musa riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Haganah was established as a result.
1929: Arab riots in Jerusalem, Hebron, Safed, and elsewhere. To put things in perspective, here is just 1 account of what happened in Hebron, where 67 Jews were massacred, women raped, the entire community pillaged, and every last Jew consequently ethnically cleansed:
"Â…the rabbis, Meir Kastel, 68 years old, and Tzvi Drabkin, 70 years old, and five other young menÂ… were robbed, castrated, tortured and murderedÂ… The baker, Noah Immerman was roasted alive on an oven, Rabbi Ya'akov Orlanski HaCohenÂ… was foundÂ… prayingÂ… they took his brain from his skull and his wife's intestines were crushedÂ… the pharmacist, Ben-Tzion Gershon, lame, unable to move, who served in Hebron for 40 years, kindly assisting many Arabs, they cut off his nose and fingers, killed him, raped his daughter and murdered her with awful torture. The teacher Dubkinov and Yitzhak Abushdid were strangled with a ropeÂ… six synagoguesÂ… including 64 Torah scrolls, many of them ancient, from the Spanish exile, all were stolen and desecrated...."
The Hebron Market - Op-Eds - Israel National News
And Safed:
In Safed on 29 August, 18 Jews were killed (some sources say 20) and 80 wounded. The attackers looted and set fire to houses and killed Jewish inhabitants. The main Jewish street was looted and burned. −
The Shaw report stated:
"At about 5:15 pm, on the 29th of August, Arab mobs attacked the Jewish ghetto in SafedÂ…in the course of which some 45 Jews were killed or wounded, several Jewish houses and shops were set on fire, and there was a repetition of the wanton destruction which had been so prominent a feature of the attack at Hebron."
An eyewitness describing the pogrom that took place in Safed, perpetrated by Arabs from Safed and local villages, armed with weapons and kerosene tins. He observed mutilated and burned bodies of victims and the burnt body of a woman tied to a window. Several people were brutally killed. A schoolteacher, wife, and mother and a lawyer, were cut to pieces with knives and the attackers entered an orphanage and smashed children's heads and cut off their hands. Another victim was stabbed repeatedly and trampled to death.
1929 Palestine riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
David Hacohen was a resident of Safed and witnessed the aftermath of the Safed pogrom. He documented his observations in his diary.
"We set out on Saturday morning. . . I could not believe my eyes. . . I met some of the town's Jewish elders, who fell on my neck weeping bitterly. We went down alleys and steps to the old town. Inside the houses I saw the mutilated and burned bodies of the victims of the massacre, and the burned body of a woman tied to the grille of a window. Going from house to house, I counted ten bodies that had not yet been collected. I saw the destruction and the signs of fire. Even in my grimmest thoughts I had not imagined that this was how I would find Safed where "calm prevailed."
The local Jews gave me a detailed description of how the tragedy had started. The pogrom began on the afternoon of Thursday, August 29, and was carried out by Arabs from Safed and from the nearby villages, armed with weapons and tins of kerosene. Advancing on the street of the Sefardi Jews from Kfar Meron and Ein Zeitim, they looted and set fire to houses, urging each other on to continue with the killing. They slaughtered the schoolteacher, Aphriat, together with his wife and mother, and cut the lawyer, Toledano, to pieces with their knives. Bursting into the orphanages, they smashed the children's heads and cut off their hands. I myself saw the victims. Yitshak Mammon, a native of Safed who lived with an Arab family, was murdered with indescribable brutality: he was stabbed again and again, until his body became a bloody sieve, and then he was trampled to death. Throughout the whole pogrom the police did not fire a single shot."
Time to Tell: An Israeli Life, 1898-1984 - David Hacohen - Google Books
1929 Safed pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1517: Safed pogrom: After having murdered the Ottoman governor, the mob turned upon the Jews and rampaged through the Jewish quarter. Many Jews were killed while others were wounded or had their property pillaged. According to one contemporary source, the Jews were "evicted from their homes, robbed and plundered, and they fled naked to the villages without any provisions." Many subsequently fled the city.
1517 Safed pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1834: Jews (and Christians) massacred by Muslims in Jerusalem, Safed, and Hebron. See:
1834 Arab revolt in Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1834 Safed pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1834 Hebron pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1857: Herman Melville writes of his visit to the Holy Land:
Â…Rode from Ramlah to Lydda. A robbery of a village near by, by party of Arabs, alarms the whole country. People travel in bands. We rode to Lydda in train of the Governor's son. A mounted escort of some 30 men, all armedÂ….
Â…The Jews dare not live outside walled towns or villages for fear of the malicious persecution of the Arabs & TurksÂ….
- The Journals of Herman Melville (January, 1857)
http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~ehrlich/361/melville_journals.html
1920 Arab Riots: There's what happened in Jerusalem:
By 10:30 a.m. on April 4, 1920, 60,000–70,000 Arabs had already congregated in the city square, and groups of them had already been attacking Jews in the Old City's alleys for over an hour; the Jews hid. Inflammatory anti-Zionist rhetoric was being delivered from the balcony of the Arab Club. One inciter was Hajj Amin al-Husayni; his uncle, the mayor, spoke from the municipal building's balcony.
The editor of the newspaper Suriya al-Janubia (Southern Syria), Aref al-Aref, delivered his speech on horseback. The crowd shouted "Independence! Independence!" and "Palestine is our land, the Jews are our dogs!" Arab police joined in applause, and violence started. The Arab local population ransacked the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem. The Torath Chaim Yeshiva was raided, and Torah scrolls were torn and thrown on the floor, and the building then set alight. During the next three hours, 160 Jews were wounded other than an unknown number of Arabs.
Khalil al-Sakakini witnessed the eruption of violence in the Old City:
"[A] riot broke out, the people began to run about and stones were thrown at the Jews. The shops were closed and there were screams... I saw a Zionist soldier covered in dust and blood... Afterwards, I saw one Hebronite approach a Jewish shoeshine boy, who hid behind a sack in one of the wall's comers next to Jaffa Gate, and take his box and beat him over the head. He screamed and began to run, his head bleeding and the Hebronite left him and returned to the procession... The riot reached its zenith. All shouted, "Muhammad's religion was born with the sword"... I immediately walked to the municipal garden... my soul is nauseated and depressed by the madness of humankind."
1920 Nebi Musa riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Haganah was established as a result.
1929: Arab riots in Jerusalem, Hebron, Safed, and elsewhere. To put things in perspective, here is just 1 account of what happened in Hebron, where 67 Jews were massacred, women raped, the entire community pillaged, and every last Jew consequently ethnically cleansed:
"Â…the rabbis, Meir Kastel, 68 years old, and Tzvi Drabkin, 70 years old, and five other young menÂ… were robbed, castrated, tortured and murderedÂ… The baker, Noah Immerman was roasted alive on an oven, Rabbi Ya'akov Orlanski HaCohenÂ… was foundÂ… prayingÂ… they took his brain from his skull and his wife's intestines were crushedÂ… the pharmacist, Ben-Tzion Gershon, lame, unable to move, who served in Hebron for 40 years, kindly assisting many Arabs, they cut off his nose and fingers, killed him, raped his daughter and murdered her with awful torture. The teacher Dubkinov and Yitzhak Abushdid were strangled with a ropeÂ… six synagoguesÂ… including 64 Torah scrolls, many of them ancient, from the Spanish exile, all were stolen and desecrated...."
The Hebron Market - Op-Eds - Israel National News
And Safed:
In Safed on 29 August, 18 Jews were killed (some sources say 20) and 80 wounded. The attackers looted and set fire to houses and killed Jewish inhabitants. The main Jewish street was looted and burned. −
The Shaw report stated:
"At about 5:15 pm, on the 29th of August, Arab mobs attacked the Jewish ghetto in SafedÂ…in the course of which some 45 Jews were killed or wounded, several Jewish houses and shops were set on fire, and there was a repetition of the wanton destruction which had been so prominent a feature of the attack at Hebron."
An eyewitness describing the pogrom that took place in Safed, perpetrated by Arabs from Safed and local villages, armed with weapons and kerosene tins. He observed mutilated and burned bodies of victims and the burnt body of a woman tied to a window. Several people were brutally killed. A schoolteacher, wife, and mother and a lawyer, were cut to pieces with knives and the attackers entered an orphanage and smashed children's heads and cut off their hands. Another victim was stabbed repeatedly and trampled to death.
1929 Palestine riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
David Hacohen was a resident of Safed and witnessed the aftermath of the Safed pogrom. He documented his observations in his diary.
"We set out on Saturday morning. . . I could not believe my eyes. . . I met some of the town's Jewish elders, who fell on my neck weeping bitterly. We went down alleys and steps to the old town. Inside the houses I saw the mutilated and burned bodies of the victims of the massacre, and the burned body of a woman tied to the grille of a window. Going from house to house, I counted ten bodies that had not yet been collected. I saw the destruction and the signs of fire. Even in my grimmest thoughts I had not imagined that this was how I would find Safed where "calm prevailed."
The local Jews gave me a detailed description of how the tragedy had started. The pogrom began on the afternoon of Thursday, August 29, and was carried out by Arabs from Safed and from the nearby villages, armed with weapons and tins of kerosene. Advancing on the street of the Sefardi Jews from Kfar Meron and Ein Zeitim, they looted and set fire to houses, urging each other on to continue with the killing. They slaughtered the schoolteacher, Aphriat, together with his wife and mother, and cut the lawyer, Toledano, to pieces with their knives. Bursting into the orphanages, they smashed the children's heads and cut off their hands. I myself saw the victims. Yitshak Mammon, a native of Safed who lived with an Arab family, was murdered with indescribable brutality: he was stabbed again and again, until his body became a bloody sieve, and then he was trampled to death. Throughout the whole pogrom the police did not fire a single shot."
Time to Tell: An Israeli Life, 1898-1984 - David Hacohen - Google Books
1929 Safed pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
kvetch
Devout UK Hindu-Jew
Y-K
Jews a majority in Gaza in !948 ??????
Evidence????
Jews a majority in Gaza in !948 ??????
Evidence????
kvetch
Devout UK Hindu-Jew
Loinboy said:
"181 was not a fair plan. What person in their right mind would give up 70% of the land they've been living on for generations, to people migrating into the area? Besides, 181 did not give Gaza and the West Bank to Israel.
And you got that ethnic cleansing crap backwards. Over 700,000 indigenous arabs were driven from Palestine due to jewish terrorism. Arabs and jews had been living in this area for a 1000 years with no major violence. That all changed when zionists showed up practicing their racist, apartheid policies regarding land ownership.
You cannot move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there. And there isn't a single country on this planet that recognizes Israel's right to that land. So give it up, it ain't happening."
You exaggerate a bit, Loinboy
From memory, Jews legally owned 6% of palestine at the time of 181
were 33% of the population of palestine (600,000 Jews to 1,200,000 Arabs)
but got 53% of Palestine land and in that area 45% of the people were Arabs
so not fair to Arabs at all, as you say.
The south bit near Gaza was viciously ethnically cleansed by Jews for 2 years until 1950
Haifa area much less so...it still has a large Arab population.
Askhelon, Ashdod in the south; Nazareth and Akko in the North were all given to the Arabs by 181 and stolen by israel who ended up with 78% after 1948
Y-Kohen is right that Jordan threw out every single Jew
also that the Negev desert was a lot of the Jewish territory which Israel is ethnically cleansing right now of Bedouins.
and that Arabs were also guilty of many major atrocities from 1917 onwards and before as he has listed; that's all quite true
but deliberately wrong about no ethnic cleansing by Jews.
It seems no quantity of evidence will get Y-K to admit that
He's a settler living on stolen land in the west bank
so a huge investment in this untruth
"181 was not a fair plan. What person in their right mind would give up 70% of the land they've been living on for generations, to people migrating into the area? Besides, 181 did not give Gaza and the West Bank to Israel.
And you got that ethnic cleansing crap backwards. Over 700,000 indigenous arabs were driven from Palestine due to jewish terrorism. Arabs and jews had been living in this area for a 1000 years with no major violence. That all changed when zionists showed up practicing their racist, apartheid policies regarding land ownership.
You cannot move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there. And there isn't a single country on this planet that recognizes Israel's right to that land. So give it up, it ain't happening."
You exaggerate a bit, Loinboy
From memory, Jews legally owned 6% of palestine at the time of 181
were 33% of the population of palestine (600,000 Jews to 1,200,000 Arabs)
but got 53% of Palestine land and in that area 45% of the people were Arabs
so not fair to Arabs at all, as you say.
The south bit near Gaza was viciously ethnically cleansed by Jews for 2 years until 1950
Haifa area much less so...it still has a large Arab population.
Askhelon, Ashdod in the south; Nazareth and Akko in the North were all given to the Arabs by 181 and stolen by israel who ended up with 78% after 1948
Y-Kohen is right that Jordan threw out every single Jew
also that the Negev desert was a lot of the Jewish territory which Israel is ethnically cleansing right now of Bedouins.
and that Arabs were also guilty of many major atrocities from 1917 onwards and before as he has listed; that's all quite true
but deliberately wrong about no ethnic cleansing by Jews.
It seems no quantity of evidence will get Y-K to admit that
He's a settler living on stolen land in the west bank
so a huge investment in this untruth
Last edited:
YKohen
Senior Member
- Thread starter
- #152
And I answered all ofthose- whichyou can't refute:
1. It wasn't fair to the Jews- but we accepted it anyway.
2. Most of the Arabs were relatively recent arrivals. For instance, in the 1840s, there were a grand total of 5000 Muslims living in Jerusalem. Yes- there were more Jews even then.
3. Israel accepted UN 181, even though it didn't include Judea, Samaria, or Gaza- or Jerusalem, where Jews were a huge majority. Israel accepted UN 181, even though it gave us a land that was 2/3 desert- with the Arabs getting the best land. Israel accepted UN 181, even though it gave theJews a Bantustan state sthat was indefensible, with the Arabs controlling the high ground.
4. I got the ethnic cleansing right. Jews lived in places. The Arabs forcibly expelled every last one. That didn't happen the other way around.
This is why there are over a million Arab citizens of Israel today.
“The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by order of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of Haifa a ghost city.... By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa."
- Time Magazine, May 3, 1948, page 25
"[The Arabs of Haifa] fled in spite of the fact that the Jewish authorities guaranteed their safety and rights as citizens of Israel."
- Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, New York Herald Tribune, June 30, 1949
"Israelis argue that the Arab states encouraged the Palestinians to flee. And, in fact, Arabs still living in Israel recall being urged to evacuate Haifa by Arab military commanders who wanted to bomb the city."
- Newsweek, January 20, 1963
“The Arab states do not want to solve the refugee problem. They want to keep it as an open sore, as an affront to the United Nations, and as a weapon against Israel. Arab leaders do not give a damn whether Arab refugees live or die.”
- Ralph Galloway, Director of UNRWA, 1958
Even Muammar Qaddafi admitted it!
“It is a fact that Palestinians inhabited the land and owned farms and homes there until recently, fleeing in fear of violence at the hands of Jews after 1948 - violence that did not occur, but rumors of which led to a mass exodus. It is important to note that the Jews did not forcibly expel Palestinians…”
The New York Times - Breaking News, World News & Multimedia
YKohen
Senior Member
- Thread starter
- #153
And:
As to the "living in peace" bs, try reality:
1517: Safed pogrom: After having murdered the Ottoman governor, the mob turned upon the Jews and rampaged through the Jewish quarter. Many Jews were killed while others were wounded or had their property pillaged. According to one contemporary source, the Jews were "evicted from their homes, robbed and plundered, and they fled naked to the villages without any provisions." Many subsequently fled the city.
1517 Safed pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1834: Jews (and Christians) massacred by Muslims in Jerusalem, Safed, and Hebron. See:
1834 Arab revolt in Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1834 Safed pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1834 Hebron pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1857: Herman Melville writes of his visit to the Holy Land:
Â…Rode from Ramlah to Lydda. A robbery of a village near by, by party of Arabs, alarms the whole country. People travel in bands. We rode to Lydda in train of the Governor's son. A mounted escort of some 30 men, all armedÂ….
Â…The Jews dare not live outside walled towns or villages for fear of the malicious persecution of the Arabs & TurksÂ….
- The Journals of Herman Melville (January, 1857)
http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~ehrlic..._journals.html
1920 Arab Riots: There's what happened in Jerusalem:
By 10:30 a.m. on April 4, 1920, 60,000–70,000 Arabs had already congregated in the city square, and groups of them had already been attacking Jews in the Old City's alleys for over an hour; the Jews hid. Inflammatory anti-Zionist rhetoric was being delivered from the balcony of the Arab Club. One inciter was Hajj Amin al-Husayni; his uncle, the mayor, spoke from the municipal building's balcony.
The editor of the newspaper Suriya al-Janubia (Southern Syria), Aref al-Aref, delivered his speech on horseback. The crowd shouted "Independence! Independence!" and "Palestine is our land, the Jews are our dogs!" Arab police joined in applause, and violence started. The Arab local population ransacked the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem. The Torath Chaim Yeshiva was raided, and Torah scrolls were torn and thrown on the floor, and the building then set alight. During the next three hours, 160 Jews were wounded other than an unknown number of Arabs.
Khalil al-Sakakini witnessed the eruption of violence in the Old City:
"[A] riot broke out, the people began to run about and stones were thrown at the Jews. The shops were closed and there were screams... I saw a Zionist soldier covered in dust and blood... Afterwards, I saw one Hebronite approach a Jewish shoeshine boy, who hid behind a sack in one of the wall's comers next to Jaffa Gate, and take his box and beat him over the head. He screamed and began to run, his head bleeding and the Hebronite left him and returned to the procession... The riot reached its zenith. All shouted, "Muhammad's religion was born with the sword"... I immediately walked to the municipal garden... my soul is nauseated and depressed by the madness of humankind."
1920 Nebi Musa riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Haganah was established as a result.
1929: Arab riots in Jerusalem, Hebron, Safed, and elsewhere. To put things in perspective, here is just 1 account of what happened in Hebron, where 67 Jews were massacred, women raped, the entire community pillaged, and every last Jew consequently ethnically cleansed:
"Â…the rabbis, Meir Kastel, 68 years old, and Tzvi Drabkin, 70 years old, and five other young menÂ… were robbed, castrated, tortured and murderedÂ… The baker, Noah Immerman was roasted alive on an oven, Rabbi Ya'akov Orlanski HaCohenÂ… was foundÂ… prayingÂ… they took his brain from his skull and his wife's intestines were crushedÂ… the pharmacist, Ben-Tzion Gershon, lame, unable to move, who served in Hebron for 40 years, kindly assisting many Arabs, they cut off his nose and fingers, killed him, raped his daughter and murdered her with awful torture. The teacher Dubkinov and Yitzhak Abushdid were strangled with a ropeÂ… six synagoguesÂ… including 64 Torah scrolls, many of them ancient, from the Spanish exile, all were stolen and desecrated...."
The Hebron Market - Op-Eds - Israel National News
And Safed:
In Safed on 29 August, 18 Jews were killed (some sources say 20) and 80 wounded. The attackers looted and set fire to houses and killed Jewish inhabitants. The main Jewish street was looted and burned. −
The Shaw report stated:
"At about 5:15 pm, on the 29th of August, Arab mobs attacked the Jewish ghetto in SafedÂ…in the course of which some 45 Jews were killed or wounded, several Jewish houses and shops were set on fire, and there was a repetition of the wanton destruction which had been so prominent a feature of the attack at Hebron."
An eyewitness describing the pogrom that took place in Safed, perpetrated by Arabs from Safed and local villages, armed with weapons and kerosene tins. He observed mutilated and burned bodies of victims and the burnt body of a woman tied to a window. Several people were brutally killed. A schoolteacher, wife, and mother and a lawyer, were cut to pieces with knives and the attackers entered an orphanage and smashed children's heads and cut off their hands. Another victim was stabbed repeatedly and trampled to death.
1929 Palestine riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
David Hacohen was a resident of Safed and witnessed the aftermath of the Safed pogrom. He documented his observations in his diary.
"We set out on Saturday morning. . . I could not believe my eyes. . . I met some of the town's Jewish elders, who fell on my neck weeping bitterly. We went down alleys and steps to the old town. Inside the houses I saw the mutilated and burned bodies of the victims of the massacre, and the burned body of a woman tied to the grille of a window. Going from house to house, I counted ten bodies that had not yet been collected. I saw the destruction and the signs of fire. Even in my grimmest thoughts I had not imagined that this was how I would find Safed where "calm prevailed."
The local Jews gave me a detailed description of how the tragedy had started. The pogrom began on the afternoon of Thursday, August 29, and was carried out by Arabs from Safed and from the nearby villages, armed with weapons and tins of kerosene. Advancing on the street of the Sefardi Jews from Kfar Meron and Ein Zeitim, they looted and set fire to houses, urging each other on to continue with the killing. They slaughtered the schoolteacher, Aphriat, together with his wife and mother, and cut the lawyer, Toledano, to pieces with their knives. Bursting into the orphanages, they smashed the children's heads and cut off their hands. I myself saw the victims. Yitshak Mammon, a native of Safed who lived with an Arab family, was murdered with indescribable brutality: he was stabbed again and again, until his body became a bloody sieve, and then he was trampled to death. Throughout the whole pogrom the police did not fire a single shot."
Time to Tell: An Israeli Life, 1898-1984 - David Hacohen - Google Books
1929 Safed pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Care to refute?
As to the "living in peace" bs, try reality:
1517: Safed pogrom: After having murdered the Ottoman governor, the mob turned upon the Jews and rampaged through the Jewish quarter. Many Jews were killed while others were wounded or had their property pillaged. According to one contemporary source, the Jews were "evicted from their homes, robbed and plundered, and they fled naked to the villages without any provisions." Many subsequently fled the city.
1517 Safed pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1834: Jews (and Christians) massacred by Muslims in Jerusalem, Safed, and Hebron. See:
1834 Arab revolt in Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1834 Safed pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1834 Hebron pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1857: Herman Melville writes of his visit to the Holy Land:
Â…Rode from Ramlah to Lydda. A robbery of a village near by, by party of Arabs, alarms the whole country. People travel in bands. We rode to Lydda in train of the Governor's son. A mounted escort of some 30 men, all armedÂ….
Â…The Jews dare not live outside walled towns or villages for fear of the malicious persecution of the Arabs & TurksÂ….
- The Journals of Herman Melville (January, 1857)
http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~ehrlic..._journals.html
1920 Arab Riots: There's what happened in Jerusalem:
By 10:30 a.m. on April 4, 1920, 60,000–70,000 Arabs had already congregated in the city square, and groups of them had already been attacking Jews in the Old City's alleys for over an hour; the Jews hid. Inflammatory anti-Zionist rhetoric was being delivered from the balcony of the Arab Club. One inciter was Hajj Amin al-Husayni; his uncle, the mayor, spoke from the municipal building's balcony.
The editor of the newspaper Suriya al-Janubia (Southern Syria), Aref al-Aref, delivered his speech on horseback. The crowd shouted "Independence! Independence!" and "Palestine is our land, the Jews are our dogs!" Arab police joined in applause, and violence started. The Arab local population ransacked the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem. The Torath Chaim Yeshiva was raided, and Torah scrolls were torn and thrown on the floor, and the building then set alight. During the next three hours, 160 Jews were wounded other than an unknown number of Arabs.
Khalil al-Sakakini witnessed the eruption of violence in the Old City:
"[A] riot broke out, the people began to run about and stones were thrown at the Jews. The shops were closed and there were screams... I saw a Zionist soldier covered in dust and blood... Afterwards, I saw one Hebronite approach a Jewish shoeshine boy, who hid behind a sack in one of the wall's comers next to Jaffa Gate, and take his box and beat him over the head. He screamed and began to run, his head bleeding and the Hebronite left him and returned to the procession... The riot reached its zenith. All shouted, "Muhammad's religion was born with the sword"... I immediately walked to the municipal garden... my soul is nauseated and depressed by the madness of humankind."
1920 Nebi Musa riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Haganah was established as a result.
1929: Arab riots in Jerusalem, Hebron, Safed, and elsewhere. To put things in perspective, here is just 1 account of what happened in Hebron, where 67 Jews were massacred, women raped, the entire community pillaged, and every last Jew consequently ethnically cleansed:
"Â…the rabbis, Meir Kastel, 68 years old, and Tzvi Drabkin, 70 years old, and five other young menÂ… were robbed, castrated, tortured and murderedÂ… The baker, Noah Immerman was roasted alive on an oven, Rabbi Ya'akov Orlanski HaCohenÂ… was foundÂ… prayingÂ… they took his brain from his skull and his wife's intestines were crushedÂ… the pharmacist, Ben-Tzion Gershon, lame, unable to move, who served in Hebron for 40 years, kindly assisting many Arabs, they cut off his nose and fingers, killed him, raped his daughter and murdered her with awful torture. The teacher Dubkinov and Yitzhak Abushdid were strangled with a ropeÂ… six synagoguesÂ… including 64 Torah scrolls, many of them ancient, from the Spanish exile, all were stolen and desecrated...."
The Hebron Market - Op-Eds - Israel National News
And Safed:
In Safed on 29 August, 18 Jews were killed (some sources say 20) and 80 wounded. The attackers looted and set fire to houses and killed Jewish inhabitants. The main Jewish street was looted and burned. −
The Shaw report stated:
"At about 5:15 pm, on the 29th of August, Arab mobs attacked the Jewish ghetto in SafedÂ…in the course of which some 45 Jews were killed or wounded, several Jewish houses and shops were set on fire, and there was a repetition of the wanton destruction which had been so prominent a feature of the attack at Hebron."
An eyewitness describing the pogrom that took place in Safed, perpetrated by Arabs from Safed and local villages, armed with weapons and kerosene tins. He observed mutilated and burned bodies of victims and the burnt body of a woman tied to a window. Several people were brutally killed. A schoolteacher, wife, and mother and a lawyer, were cut to pieces with knives and the attackers entered an orphanage and smashed children's heads and cut off their hands. Another victim was stabbed repeatedly and trampled to death.
1929 Palestine riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
David Hacohen was a resident of Safed and witnessed the aftermath of the Safed pogrom. He documented his observations in his diary.
"We set out on Saturday morning. . . I could not believe my eyes. . . I met some of the town's Jewish elders, who fell on my neck weeping bitterly. We went down alleys and steps to the old town. Inside the houses I saw the mutilated and burned bodies of the victims of the massacre, and the burned body of a woman tied to the grille of a window. Going from house to house, I counted ten bodies that had not yet been collected. I saw the destruction and the signs of fire. Even in my grimmest thoughts I had not imagined that this was how I would find Safed where "calm prevailed."
The local Jews gave me a detailed description of how the tragedy had started. The pogrom began on the afternoon of Thursday, August 29, and was carried out by Arabs from Safed and from the nearby villages, armed with weapons and tins of kerosene. Advancing on the street of the Sefardi Jews from Kfar Meron and Ein Zeitim, they looted and set fire to houses, urging each other on to continue with the killing. They slaughtered the schoolteacher, Aphriat, together with his wife and mother, and cut the lawyer, Toledano, to pieces with their knives. Bursting into the orphanages, they smashed the children's heads and cut off their hands. I myself saw the victims. Yitshak Mammon, a native of Safed who lived with an Arab family, was murdered with indescribable brutality: he was stabbed again and again, until his body became a bloody sieve, and then he was trampled to death. Throughout the whole pogrom the police did not fire a single shot."
Time to Tell: An Israeli Life, 1898-1984 - David Hacohen - Google Books
1929 Safed pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Care to refute?
Billo_Really
Litre of the Band
Your links don't have those quotes.
In 1947, jews only constituted a third of the population. So as far as who was living there and in what proportions, you're full of shit.
And as far as who expelled who...
You can't re-write history.
YKohen
Senior Member
- Thread starter
- #155
Here's the Qaddaffi quote:
It is a fact that Palestinians inhabited the land and owned farms and homes there until recently, fleeing in fear of violence at the hands of Jews after 1948 - violence that did not occur, but rumors of which led to a mass exodus. It is important to note that the Jews did not forcibly expel Palestinians.
-------------------------
Today's Palestinians are immigrants from many nations: "Balkans, Greeks, Syrians, Latins, Egyptians, Turks, Armenians, Italians, Persians, Kurds, Germans, Afghans, Circassians, Bosnians, Sudaneese, Samaritans, Algerians, Motawila, Tartars, Hungarians, Scots, Navarese, Bretons, English, Franks, Ruthenians, Bohemians, Bulgarians, Georgians, Syrians, Persian Nestorians, Indians, Copts, Maronites, and many others."
(DeHass, History, p. 258. John of Wurzburg list from Reinhold Rohricht edition, pp. 41, 69).
There are villages populated wholly by settlers from other portions of the Turkish Empire in the 19th century. There are villages of Bosnians, Circassians, and Egyptians.
-Parkes, James William, History of the Peoples of Palestine, Hammondsworth, Great Britain, 1970, p. 212.
There are very large contingents from the Mediterranean countries, especially Armenia, Greece, and Italy, Turkomen settlers, a fairly large Afghan colony, Motawila, immigrants from Persia, tribes of Kurds, a Bosnian colony, Circassian settlements, a large Algerian element, Sudanese...
-Encyclopedia Brittanica, 1911 ed.
[Ibrahim Pasha, the 1831 Egyptian conquerer of Palestine] "left behind him permanent colonies of Egyptians at Besian, Nablus, Irbid, Acre, and Jaffa. Into Jaffa alone, "at least 2,000 people have been imported."
-Ernst Frankenstein, Justice For My People, London, Nicholson and Watson, 1943, p. 127.
In 1860, entire Algerian tribes immigrated en masse to Safed. The Muslims of Safed, are "mostly descended from these Moorish settlers and from Kurds that came earlier to the city."
-De Haas, Jacob, History of Palestine, The Last Two Thousand Years, New York, 1934, p. 425.
"I learn of the arrival of about 6,000 of the Beni Sukhr Arabs at Tiberias who are very seldom seen this side of the Jordan."
-British Consul James Finn in apers Relating to the Distubances in Syria, no. 2, June 1860, p. 35.
After 1870, "the [Turkish] forward policy included...the planting of Circassian colonies in the country."
-Smith, CG in Studies on Palestine During the Ottoman Period, Jerusalem, 1975, p. 93.
"The Arabs would have sat in the dark forever had not the Zionist engineers harnessed the Jordan river for electrification. Now they swarm into Palestine in seeking the light."
- Winston Churchill, 1922 "A Peace to End All Peace"
"This illegal [Arab] immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery."
-Palestine Royal Commission Report, London: 1937
"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied until their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population."
-Winston Churchill, 1939.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZtiUdl9Cd0"]Hamas official reveals where Palestinians came from - YouTube[/ame]
This is why such last names as al-Masri (the Egyptian,), al-Djazair (the Algerian), el-Mughrabi (the Moroccan), al-Yamani (the Yemenite) and even al-Afghani are so common among those claiming to be "Palestinians."
“PA Daily: Arabs Fled in '48 Hoping For Israel's Destruction” (16 Iyar 5768, May 21, '08)
A recent report by a senior Palestinian Authority journalist in the PA daily Al-Ayyam documented the decision by masses of Arabs in 1948 to leave their homes in the hopes that they would return once Israel was defeated.
"The Arabs who became refugees in 1948 were not expelled by Israel but left on their own to facilitate the destruction of Israel," the senior PA journalist wrote, according to Palestinian Media Watch, which monitors the Arabic language PA media. "This plan to leave Israel was initiated by the Arab states fighting Israel, who promised the people they would be able to return to their homes in a few days once Israel was defeated."
PMW points out that the Al-Ayyam article's conclusion that Arab states are responsible for the Arab refugee problem undercuts a backbone of Arab propaganda claiming that Israel expelled hundreds of thousands of Arabs in 1948. "In recent years, PMW has documented an increasing willingness among Palestinians to openly blame the Arab states and not Israel," the report concludes, citing five sources and witnesses' accounts conveyed in the PA media to support the claim:
Jawad Al Bashiti, PA Arab journalist in Jordan, writing in Al-Ayyam, May 13, 2008
"Remind me of one real cause from all the factors that have caused the "Palestinian Catastrophe" [the establishment of Israel and the creation of refugee problem], and I will remind you that it still exists... The reasons for the Palestinian Catastrophe are the same reasons that have produced and are still producing our Catastrophes today.
"During the Little Catastrophe, meaning the Palestinian Catastrophe, the following happened: the first war between Arabs and Israel had started and the "Arab Salvation Army" came and told the Palestinians: 'We have come to you in order to liquidate the Zionists and their state. Leave your houses and villages, you will return to them in a few days safely. Leave them so we can fulfill our mission (destroy Israel) in the best way and so you won't be hurt.' It became clear already then, when it was too late, that the support of the Arab states (against Israel) was a big illusion. Arabs fought as if intending to cause the "Palestinian Catastrophe"
Mahmoud Al-Habbash, PA Journalist in PA-run daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, December 13, 2006
"...The leaders and the elites promised us at the beginning of the "Catastrophe" in 1948, that the duration of the exile will not be long, and that it will not last more than a few days or months, and afterwards the refugees will return to their homes, which most of them did not leave only until they put their trust in those 'Arkuvian' promises made by the leaders and the political elites. Afterwards, days passed, months, years and decades, and the promises were lost with the strain of the succession of events..." [Term "Arkuvian," is after Arkuv - a figure from Arab tradition - who was known for breaking his promises and for his lies."] "
Asmaa Jabir Balasimah, Woman who fled Israel in 1948, Al-Ayyam, May 16, 2006
"We heard sounds of explosions and of gunfire at the beginning of the summer in the year of the 'Catastrophe' [1948]. They told us: The Jews attacked our region and it is better to evacuate the village and return, after the battle is over. And indeed there were among us [who fled Israel] those who left a fire burning under the pot, those who left their flock [of sheep] and those who left their money and gold behind, based on the assumption that we would return after a few hours."
Son of man who fled in 1948, PA TV 1999
An Arab viewer called Palestinian Authority TV and quoted his father, saying that in 1948 the Arab District Officer ordered all Arabs to leave Palestine or be labeled traitors. In response, Arab MK Ibrahim Sarsur, then Head of the Islamic Movement in Israel, cursed those leaders, thus acknowledging Israel's historical record.
"Mr. Ibrahim [Sarsur]. I address you as a Muslim. My father and grandfather told me that during the "Catastrophe" [in 1948], our district officer issued an order that whoever stays in Palestine and in Majdel [near Ashkelon - Southern Israel] is a traitor, he is a traitor."
Response from Ibrahim Sarsur, now MK, then Head of the Islamic Movement in Israel:
"The one who gave the order forbidding them to stay there bears guilt for this, in this life and the Afterlife throughout history until Resurrection Day."
Fuad Abu Higla, senior PA journalist, Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah, March 19, 2001
Abu Higla, then a regular columnist in the official PA daily Al Hayat Al Jadida, wrote an article before an Arab Summit, which criticized the Arab leaders. One of the failures he cited, in the name of a prisoner, was that an earlier generation of Arab leaders "forced" them to leave Israel in 1948, again placing the blame for the flight on the Arab leaders.
"I have received a letter from a prisoner in Acre prison, to the Arab summit:
To the [Arab and Muslim] Kings and Presidents, poverty is killing us, the symptoms are exhausting us and the souls are leaving our body, yet you are still searching for the way to provide aid, like one who is looking for a needle in a haystack or like the armies of your predecessors in the year of 1948, who forced us to leave [Israel], on the pretext of clearing the battlefields of civilians...
So what will your summit do now?"
PMW Director Itamar Marcus believes it is critical that the admission of PA Arabs to the root causes of the refugee issue be brought to light, as the matter is not only at the heart of negotiations, but has become a rallying point for anti-Israel activists seeking to flood the Jewish state with the ancestors of those who fled originally. "It is clear from these statements that there is general acknowledgement among Palestinians that Arab leaders bear responsibility for the mass flight of Arabs from Israel in 1948, and were the cause of the 'refugee' problem," Marcus said. "Furthermore, the fact that this information has been validated by public figures and refugees in the Palestinian Authority media itself confirms that this responsibility is well-known - even though for propaganda purposes its leaders continue to blame Israel publicly for 'the expulsion.' "
PA Media: 1948 Refugees Dispatched by Arabs - Defense/Middle East - News - Israel National News
You can't re-write history.
It is a fact that Palestinians inhabited the land and owned farms and homes there until recently, fleeing in fear of violence at the hands of Jews after 1948 - violence that did not occur, but rumors of which led to a mass exodus. It is important to note that the Jews did not forcibly expel Palestinians.
-------------------------
Today's Palestinians are immigrants from many nations: "Balkans, Greeks, Syrians, Latins, Egyptians, Turks, Armenians, Italians, Persians, Kurds, Germans, Afghans, Circassians, Bosnians, Sudaneese, Samaritans, Algerians, Motawila, Tartars, Hungarians, Scots, Navarese, Bretons, English, Franks, Ruthenians, Bohemians, Bulgarians, Georgians, Syrians, Persian Nestorians, Indians, Copts, Maronites, and many others."
(DeHass, History, p. 258. John of Wurzburg list from Reinhold Rohricht edition, pp. 41, 69).
There are villages populated wholly by settlers from other portions of the Turkish Empire in the 19th century. There are villages of Bosnians, Circassians, and Egyptians.
-Parkes, James William, History of the Peoples of Palestine, Hammondsworth, Great Britain, 1970, p. 212.
There are very large contingents from the Mediterranean countries, especially Armenia, Greece, and Italy, Turkomen settlers, a fairly large Afghan colony, Motawila, immigrants from Persia, tribes of Kurds, a Bosnian colony, Circassian settlements, a large Algerian element, Sudanese...
-Encyclopedia Brittanica, 1911 ed.
[Ibrahim Pasha, the 1831 Egyptian conquerer of Palestine] "left behind him permanent colonies of Egyptians at Besian, Nablus, Irbid, Acre, and Jaffa. Into Jaffa alone, "at least 2,000 people have been imported."
-Ernst Frankenstein, Justice For My People, London, Nicholson and Watson, 1943, p. 127.
In 1860, entire Algerian tribes immigrated en masse to Safed. The Muslims of Safed, are "mostly descended from these Moorish settlers and from Kurds that came earlier to the city."
-De Haas, Jacob, History of Palestine, The Last Two Thousand Years, New York, 1934, p. 425.
"I learn of the arrival of about 6,000 of the Beni Sukhr Arabs at Tiberias who are very seldom seen this side of the Jordan."
-British Consul James Finn in apers Relating to the Distubances in Syria, no. 2, June 1860, p. 35.
After 1870, "the [Turkish] forward policy included...the planting of Circassian colonies in the country."
-Smith, CG in Studies on Palestine During the Ottoman Period, Jerusalem, 1975, p. 93.
"The Arabs would have sat in the dark forever had not the Zionist engineers harnessed the Jordan river for electrification. Now they swarm into Palestine in seeking the light."
- Winston Churchill, 1922 "A Peace to End All Peace"
"This illegal [Arab] immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery."
-Palestine Royal Commission Report, London: 1937
"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied until their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population."
-Winston Churchill, 1939.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZtiUdl9Cd0"]Hamas official reveals where Palestinians came from - YouTube[/ame]
This is why such last names as al-Masri (the Egyptian,), al-Djazair (the Algerian), el-Mughrabi (the Moroccan), al-Yamani (the Yemenite) and even al-Afghani are so common among those claiming to be "Palestinians."
“PA Daily: Arabs Fled in '48 Hoping For Israel's Destruction” (16 Iyar 5768, May 21, '08)
A recent report by a senior Palestinian Authority journalist in the PA daily Al-Ayyam documented the decision by masses of Arabs in 1948 to leave their homes in the hopes that they would return once Israel was defeated.
"The Arabs who became refugees in 1948 were not expelled by Israel but left on their own to facilitate the destruction of Israel," the senior PA journalist wrote, according to Palestinian Media Watch, which monitors the Arabic language PA media. "This plan to leave Israel was initiated by the Arab states fighting Israel, who promised the people they would be able to return to their homes in a few days once Israel was defeated."
PMW points out that the Al-Ayyam article's conclusion that Arab states are responsible for the Arab refugee problem undercuts a backbone of Arab propaganda claiming that Israel expelled hundreds of thousands of Arabs in 1948. "In recent years, PMW has documented an increasing willingness among Palestinians to openly blame the Arab states and not Israel," the report concludes, citing five sources and witnesses' accounts conveyed in the PA media to support the claim:
Jawad Al Bashiti, PA Arab journalist in Jordan, writing in Al-Ayyam, May 13, 2008
"Remind me of one real cause from all the factors that have caused the "Palestinian Catastrophe" [the establishment of Israel and the creation of refugee problem], and I will remind you that it still exists... The reasons for the Palestinian Catastrophe are the same reasons that have produced and are still producing our Catastrophes today.
"During the Little Catastrophe, meaning the Palestinian Catastrophe, the following happened: the first war between Arabs and Israel had started and the "Arab Salvation Army" came and told the Palestinians: 'We have come to you in order to liquidate the Zionists and their state. Leave your houses and villages, you will return to them in a few days safely. Leave them so we can fulfill our mission (destroy Israel) in the best way and so you won't be hurt.' It became clear already then, when it was too late, that the support of the Arab states (against Israel) was a big illusion. Arabs fought as if intending to cause the "Palestinian Catastrophe"
Mahmoud Al-Habbash, PA Journalist in PA-run daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, December 13, 2006
"...The leaders and the elites promised us at the beginning of the "Catastrophe" in 1948, that the duration of the exile will not be long, and that it will not last more than a few days or months, and afterwards the refugees will return to their homes, which most of them did not leave only until they put their trust in those 'Arkuvian' promises made by the leaders and the political elites. Afterwards, days passed, months, years and decades, and the promises were lost with the strain of the succession of events..." [Term "Arkuvian," is after Arkuv - a figure from Arab tradition - who was known for breaking his promises and for his lies."] "
Asmaa Jabir Balasimah, Woman who fled Israel in 1948, Al-Ayyam, May 16, 2006
"We heard sounds of explosions and of gunfire at the beginning of the summer in the year of the 'Catastrophe' [1948]. They told us: The Jews attacked our region and it is better to evacuate the village and return, after the battle is over. And indeed there were among us [who fled Israel] those who left a fire burning under the pot, those who left their flock [of sheep] and those who left their money and gold behind, based on the assumption that we would return after a few hours."
Son of man who fled in 1948, PA TV 1999
An Arab viewer called Palestinian Authority TV and quoted his father, saying that in 1948 the Arab District Officer ordered all Arabs to leave Palestine or be labeled traitors. In response, Arab MK Ibrahim Sarsur, then Head of the Islamic Movement in Israel, cursed those leaders, thus acknowledging Israel's historical record.
"Mr. Ibrahim [Sarsur]. I address you as a Muslim. My father and grandfather told me that during the "Catastrophe" [in 1948], our district officer issued an order that whoever stays in Palestine and in Majdel [near Ashkelon - Southern Israel] is a traitor, he is a traitor."
Response from Ibrahim Sarsur, now MK, then Head of the Islamic Movement in Israel:
"The one who gave the order forbidding them to stay there bears guilt for this, in this life and the Afterlife throughout history until Resurrection Day."
Fuad Abu Higla, senior PA journalist, Al-Hayat Al-Jadidah, March 19, 2001
Abu Higla, then a regular columnist in the official PA daily Al Hayat Al Jadida, wrote an article before an Arab Summit, which criticized the Arab leaders. One of the failures he cited, in the name of a prisoner, was that an earlier generation of Arab leaders "forced" them to leave Israel in 1948, again placing the blame for the flight on the Arab leaders.
"I have received a letter from a prisoner in Acre prison, to the Arab summit:
To the [Arab and Muslim] Kings and Presidents, poverty is killing us, the symptoms are exhausting us and the souls are leaving our body, yet you are still searching for the way to provide aid, like one who is looking for a needle in a haystack or like the armies of your predecessors in the year of 1948, who forced us to leave [Israel], on the pretext of clearing the battlefields of civilians...
So what will your summit do now?"
PMW Director Itamar Marcus believes it is critical that the admission of PA Arabs to the root causes of the refugee issue be brought to light, as the matter is not only at the heart of negotiations, but has become a rallying point for anti-Israel activists seeking to flood the Jewish state with the ancestors of those who fled originally. "It is clear from these statements that there is general acknowledgement among Palestinians that Arab leaders bear responsibility for the mass flight of Arabs from Israel in 1948, and were the cause of the 'refugee' problem," Marcus said. "Furthermore, the fact that this information has been validated by public figures and refugees in the Palestinian Authority media itself confirms that this responsibility is well-known - even though for propaganda purposes its leaders continue to blame Israel publicly for 'the expulsion.' "
PA Media: 1948 Refugees Dispatched by Arabs - Defense/Middle East - News - Israel National News
You can't re-write history.
Last edited:
Billo_Really
Litre of the Band
Do you really expect me to take the word of Kaddafi or an Israeli propaganda outlet over an un-biased UN report?
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
- 86,532
- 4,889
- 1,815
There were over 300,000 Palestinian refugees before any Arab country entered Palestine.
Indeed.
YKohen
Senior Member
- Thread starter
- #158
"The Arab armies entered Palestine Â…. they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland...The Arab States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people."
[By Abu Mazen, in an article entitled "Madha `Alamna wa-Madha Yajib An Na`mal", published in "Falastin eth-Thawra", the official journal of the PLO, Beirut, March 1976 ]
"The call by the Arab Governments to the inhabitants of Palestine to evacuate it and to leave for the bordering Arab countries, after having sown terror among them...
Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave...We have brought destruction upon a million Arab refugees, by calling upon them and pleading with them to leave their land, their homes, their work and business..."
[By Khaled al-`Azm, who served as Prime Minister of Syria in 1948 and 1949, wrote in his memoirs (published in Beirut, 1973, Part 1, pp. 386-387) ]
He also said:
"Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of refugeesÂ… while it is we who made them to leaveÂ… We brought disaster uponÂ… Arab refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leaveÂ… We have rendered them dispossessedÂ…
We have accustomed them to beggingÂ… We have participated in lowering their moral and social levelÂ… Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson, and throwing bombs uponÂ… men, women and children - all this in service of political purposesÂ…".
"The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the act of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agree upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem."
- Emile Ghoury, secretary of the Palestinian Arab Higher Committee, in an interview with the Beirut Telegraph Sept. 6, 1948.
"The Arab state which had encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies, have failed to keep their promise to help these refugees."
- The Jordanian daily newspaper Falastin, Feb. 19, 1949.
"Who brought the Palestinians to Lebanon as refugees, suffering now from the malign attitude of newspapers and communal leaders, who have neither honor nor conscience? Who brought them over in dire straits and penniless, after they lost their honor? The Arab states, and Lebanon amongst them, did it."
- The Beirut Muslim weekly Kul-Shay, Aug. 19, 1951.
"The 15th May, 1948, arrived ... On that day the mufti of Jerusalem appealed to the Arabs of Palestine to leave the country, because the Arab armies were about to enter and fight in their stead."
- The Cairo daily Akhbar el Yom, Oct. 12, 1963.
"For the flight and fall of the other villages it is our leaders who are responsible because of their dissemination of rumors exaggerating Jewish crimes and describing them as atrocities in order to inflame the Arabs ... By spreading rumors of Jewish atrocities, killings of women and children etc., they instilled fear and terror in the hearts of the Arabs in Palestine, until they fled leaving their homes and properties to the enemy."
- The Jordanian daily newspaper Al Urdun, April 9, 1953.
"Long before the end of the mandate, between January and April, 48, practically all my Arab Palestinian staff of some 200 men and women and all of the 1800 labor force had left Haifa in spite of every possible effort to assume them of their safety if they stayed."
[Harry C. Stebbens, who was in an official position in the British Mandatory Government in Palestine in 1947-48 wrote in the London Evening Standard (Friday, 10 January 1969) ]
"The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies."
[Editorial, Falastin, February 19, 1949 (Amman) ]
"We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in. The Arabs should conduct their wives and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down."
[Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Said, as quoted by Nimr el Hawari (the former Commander of the Palestine Arab Youth Organization) in his book "Sir Am Nakbah" (The Secret Behind the Disaster), 1952, Nazareth]
The Arab governments told us: get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in." from the Jordanian daily newspaper Ad Difaa, September 6, 1954.
"It must not be forgotten that the Arab Higher Committee encourage the refugees' flight from their homes in Jaffa, Haifa, and Jerusalem." Broadcast by the Near East Arabic Broadcasting Station on April 3, 1949 (Cyprus)
"The first group of our fifth columnists consists of those who abandon their houses and business and go to live elsewhere..at the first sign of trouble they take to their heels to escape sharing the burden of struggle." Editorial, Ash Sha'ah, January 30, 1948 (Haifa)
This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic Arab press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and retake possession of their country." Edward Atiyah (Secretary of the Arab League Office in London), as quoted in The Arabs", p. 183 (London 1955)
"I do not want to impugn anybody but only to help the refugees. The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the action of the Arab States in opposing partition and the Jewish State. The Arab States agreed upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem." Emil Ghoury (Secretary of the Arab Higher Committee) as quoted in the Daily Telegraph, September 6, 1948 (Beirut)
"The Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade..He pointed out that they were already on the frontiers and that all the millions of Jews had spent on land and economic development would be easy booty, for it would be a simple matter to throw Jews into the Mediterranean..Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes and property and to stay temporarily in neighboring fraternal states, lest the guns of the invading Arab armies mow them down." Habib Issa, in the daily US published Lebanese newspaper Al Hoda, June 8 1951 (New York)
In Haifa on 27 April 1948, the Arab National Committee refused to sign a truce, reporting in a memorandum to the Arab League Governments, "when the delegation entered the conference room it proudly refused to sign the truce and asked that the evacuation of the Arab population and their transfer to neighboring Arab countries be facilitated...The military and civil authorities and the Jewish representatives expressed their profound regret.
The mayor of Haifa (Mr. Shabtai Levi) adjourned the meeting with a passionate appeal to the Arab population to reconsider its decision"
Jordanian daily, Filastin (Feb. 19, 1949):
"The Arab States...encouraged the Palestinians to leave their homes, temporarily, not interfering with the invading Arab armies."
Khaled al-Azam, Syrian Prime Minister in 1949 (memoirs, 1973):
"We brought destruction upon the refugees, by calling on them to leave their homes."
London Economist (Oct. 2, 1948):
"The most potent of the factors [in the flight] were announcements made by the Palestinian-Arab Higher Committee, urging all Haifa Arabs to quit, intimating that those remaining would be regarded as renegades." Arab over-confidence prior to the war (600,000 Jews vs. 27, 000,000 Arabs) was crashed by defeat, intensifying the flight of Arabs."
"Arab leaders were responsible for the [Arab] flight, disseminating exaggerated rumors of Jewish atrocities, in order to incite the Arabs, thus instilling fear in the hearts of the Palestinians."
(Jordanian daily, al-Urdun, April 9, 1953).
Ismayil Safwat, Commander of Palestinian Operations (March, 1948):
"The Jews haven't attacked any Arab village, unless attacked first."
kvetch
Devout UK Hindu-Jew
Y-K
i actually told loinboy in my post that all your list of arab atrocities against jews in palestine were true
I said it
and then you ask me to refute it??
Get with it, sir
i actually told loinboy in my post that all your list of arab atrocities against jews in palestine were true
I said it
and then you ask me to refute it??
Get with it, sir
kvetch
Devout UK Hindu-Jew
Y_K quoted:
Ismayil Safwat, Commander of Palestinian Operations (March, 1948):
"The Jews haven't attacked any Arab village, unless attacked first."
what is clear is that very different things happened in 1948 in different villages
in some the jews behaved perfectly well and even heroically protected arabs from other violent arabs and jews
in others especially around gaza it was straight vicious ethnic cleansing with total destruction for 2 years
as I said to you, Y-K...it wasn't then and isn't now black and white
but you insist it is
well truth is it wasn't, isn't now and never will be
Ismayil Safwat, Commander of Palestinian Operations (March, 1948):
"The Jews haven't attacked any Arab village, unless attacked first."
what is clear is that very different things happened in 1948 in different villages
in some the jews behaved perfectly well and even heroically protected arabs from other violent arabs and jews
in others especially around gaza it was straight vicious ethnic cleansing with total destruction for 2 years
as I said to you, Y-K...it wasn't then and isn't now black and white
but you insist it is
well truth is it wasn't, isn't now and never will be
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