The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Sunshine]

So you don't think that Martin, who saw Zimmerman, a man who followed in a car. A man who got out of the car and followed him brazenly into a dark courtyard, didn't have reason to believe that Zimmerman was armed? And that Zimmerman may have been pulling a gun?

Because he would have been right on the armed part. And he may have clocked Zimmerman before he got his gun.

Bravo...well said. You mean the creepy guy following me in the dark and rain? When I ask what the problem is and he goes frantically reaching for something in his pockets....you mean Im not to assume that he might be pulling out a lollipop?

He might have a weapon? Oops he did have a weapon. Boy did he!

Here's the shocking part. He used it.

And no one supporting Zimmerman seems to give a damn.

We all know you are watching that trial for the exact same reason that the rest of us are - entertainment. Your 'give a damn' consists of pontificating all day on a message board. If you give such a big ******* damn why don't you log off and go to the ghettos and save all the chillins like li'l Trayvon? Huh? Why don't you? You blow this shit into the faces of people who have spent their lives in the service of others, giving a damn, trying to save them, and trying to make the world better. You are simply beyond pathetic.

 

[Sunshine]

Perhaps, all of those alleged hits has you failing to grasp the simplistic nature of head trauma.

Or..

It proves that all that "head trauma" isn't fatal and Ol' Zimmerman wasn't exposed to lethal force.

The law does not state only lethal force. Potential for serious bodily harm is grounds enough. Your post are in no way indicative that those hits to your head did not cause serious damage. GM never harmed TM in any way, yet you believe he should have continued to endure more damage to his head for better theatrics or satisfy your no defense agenda.

When using logic it is barely even possible GZ was menacing TM with his gun but you believe he was beyond reasonable doubt. Because those hits to your head have damaged your brain to the point that logic is impossible. Why do you think the NFL had to change their helmets & rules of the game to reduce the large number of head & brain injuries every game.

They don't have to even touch you for there to be reasonable fear. "You're going to die tonight" about does it.

 

[Sunshine]

So answer me this, 25...

If Zimmerman has indeed lost sight of Martin and is headed back to his SUV? Why does Martin choose to call out to the man he's supposedly afraid of from the safety of the darkness? Why doesn't Martin simply let Zimmerman continue to walk back to his truck? He doesn't have to do or say anything if he's REALLY afraid. Could it be that Martin now has gotten a better look at the man who was in the SUV and has decided that he's not a big imposing guy but a skinny little guy? Could it be that Martin decided at that point that he's not going to take any shit from someone who looks as wimpy as George Zimmerman did? That Martin decided to step from the shadows with his "You got a problem?" challenge?

Excellent points...I agree with your above post 100% and have said the same thing...you have it pegged pretty well. Its speculation, but it is logical reasoning based on what we know. GZ was in retreat and trayvon called him out...in hindsight he should not have....I wish the poor kid would have just went home.

i also do not believe that Trayvon was scared of GZ. That does not make logical sense. I think that he had sized GZ up and that GZ looked like someone he could take if he needed to. GZ is not an intimidating looking person. I dont believe tray was scared of him.

I believe that Trayvon was IRRITATED with him for following him in the dark and rain (as i would be if someone was following me in the dark) and that when he ran up the path towards the homestretch of the condo he became MORE irritated that GZ was now following him on foot. Even though GZ may have been looking for an address...Trayvon did not know that. So a person who has become increasingly irritated at this person continuing to follow him was now going to say something to him. He did by saying "Do you have a problem" and the rest is history.

I personally think that if you are going to exercise your right to follow in the dark and rain, then you have some moral responsibility to at least identify yourself when the situation escalates. Does he have to? No. Is it illegal not to? No. IMO...At some point you have to distinguish yourself to the followee from being a concerned citizen and just some creep following a teenager. I believe this responsibility is increased when you are carrying a concealed weapon...I believe you have the moral responsibility to defuse a situation that has clearly escalated. I can honestly say that I would have and I have in other situations when teens were suspiciously walking around the neighborhood at night.

I also believe that based on the evidence presented so far and how its been presented by the prosecution that a not guilty verdict is imminent. I just dont think the prosecution has put on a good case. I think they overcharged at M2 because of political and national protest pressure. As a result, their burden of proof is too great for the case they were prepared to make. Manslaughter by Culpable Negligence (Involuntary Manslaughter) would have been the more appropriate charge, IMO. The prosecution has went from not even arresting the guy to charging him with M2? Big mistake and against the advice of their own lead investigator on the case (Chris Serino), who suggested Invol Manslaughter instead. He has coincidentally been demoted in the time since although im not completely sure why.

IMO, the prosecution has passed the buck and pressure to 6 female jurors. They thought the pressure would be off of them for at least arresting and charging him and on the jurors to convict...like the jurors will ultimately be blamed if he gets off...not the prosecution. That is weak and disgraceful, imo.

Here's my take on the whole "following" thing, 25. From what I've seen from George Zimmerman I find it highly doubtful that Zimmerman EVER wanted to get close to Trayvon Martin. I think it was always his intention to follow Trayvon Martin at a distance. As a matter of fact I get the impression that if he'd seen Martin coming towards him from a distance that Zimmerman would have likely retreated. This is not a "ballsy" man.

As for who gets "blamed" for Zimmerman getting off...if that does indeed happen? Many will blame the jury but many will blame the Prosecution as well. I don't think the Prosecution had anything to work with here other than an emotional appeal that a young, innocent kid had been murdered by an adult who was over zealous in his role with the Neighborhood Watch. Did they do some questionable things with what they DID have? No question about it. But you've got to give them some slack because of the hand they were dealt. How would YOU like to have had Rachel Jenteal as your "star witness"? Tell me that she didn't give the Prosecutors heartburn trying to get her ready to testify.

I still think this jury could return a guilty verdict on manslaughter. I don't think the facts of the case warrant that but after OJ and Casey Anthony I'd be scared to death to have MY fate in the hands of a jury.

The law doesn't give the prosecution 'slack.' It is incumbent upon the prosecution to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Sunshine]

Respectful? You mean by pointing out your repeated claim Martin attacked Zimmerman because he saw a weapon, is made up from whole cloth? Zero evidence. Zero claim even by the prosecution.

You base your entire case on a fabricated condition that simply did not happen. And after being called on it continue to make the same claim over and over. And I am disrespectful for calling you on the fabrication?

The evidence and testimony are clear, Martin attacked Zimmerman, nearly broke his nose and then proceeded to beat his head into the ground. Eye witness testimony places Martin on top and Zimmerman calling for help.

So explain why, if Zimmerman's intent was to go for his gun and then shoot Martin, why was he calling for help? Why was he relieved when told there was eye witness to the event?

Just admit you fabricated the whole Zimmerman went for his gun episode.

I fail to see how even involuntary manslaughter gets proven when the eyewitness testimony backs every thing Zimmerman said and the supposed star witness for the prosecution INSISTS Martin made it home AND THEN CHOSE TO GO BACK.

It doesn't. But the judge isn't going to face the angry mob all by herself.

 

[Sunshine]

This is without doubt a tragic situation but the bottom line here is that someone was shot because they attacked another person. Trayvon Martin had choices how to deal with the "creepy assed Cracker" that was following him. He could have simply gone inside the condo and called Police to report the man who was following him. That would have been the end of it. Right there! The Police would have told him that the man was a Neighborhood Watch member concerned about who Martin was and that they would call Zimmerman and let him know that Martin was visiting a resident in the complex.

That's what SHOULD have happened, 25. Instead Trayvon Martin decided to handle it himself. He walked back to confront a stranger in the dark with a "You got a problem?" challenge and a sucker punch to the nose.

I think li'l Trayvon saw killing Zimmerman as his ticket into a real gang. You know, with the first little tear drop tattooed under his eye and all.

 

[Sunshine]

Unwritten rules for civilized men when they fight?

That's a Cage Match fool!

The rules are written down. They are called laws.

No ma'am the unwritten rules of honor between men are not laws.

Well, there you go. This did not involve two men. There was 1 man and a street thug.

 

[Sunshine]

Just to add this is the part in the movie when the audience is told.. yeah he's innocent but you know what... his job was to protect that teen not kill him.

Negged!

 

[Sunshine]

You can use one sauce pan to boil then fry..

Malt vinegar! yum... Got a hankerin for fish and chips british style when I spent some time in England.

I just had malt vinegar on my MickeyD's fries.

I learned that trick up north.

And in Canada, I learned about poutine!

French fries, brown gravy, cheese curd.

 

[JimBowie1958]

You know what's weird about all of this?
If Trayvon was a white guy, we wouldn't be having any kind of discussion about it on this board.

If Trayvon was white, rest assured the media never would have referred to Zimmerman as a "white Hispanic".

The media should be sued for altering the truth and publishing lies in the tabloid, libelous style...done solely for the purpose of upping their income.

Namely:

NBC producers doctored the recording to portray Zimmerman as a bigot. In the unedited 911 call, the dispatcher asks Zimmerman to describe Martin's skin color. Yet NBC made it seem as if Zimmerman targeted him because he was black and edited the exchange to look like he believed blacks in general are up to no good.

Other examples of biased media coverage included:

• ABC News originally claiming Zimmerman had no visible signs of injury based on a fuzzy video that later, when enhanced, clearly showed wounds to his head.

• CNN isolating part of a 911 call and speculating Zimmerman could be heard in the background calling Martin a racial slur, when in fact he did no such thing.

• Networks broadcasting photos of Martin as a pre-teen, ignoring the social-media photos of the 17-year-old smoking, shooting the middle finger and glowering at the camera...

********************

The media moguls continue to rape our system of justice with their irresponsible antics...bringing out our notorious, celebrity race pimps and stirring up unwarranted hatred between blacks and non-blacks. I say we boycott them all.

The 4th estate is now the property of corporate entities that bear no love for America, detest her common citizens and are working day and night to eliminate American culture from the face of the Earth.

 

[Sunshine]

He can say his life was in danger but that doesn't automatically equate to him walking free because he felt that way. They still have to prove their case, not just say oh he felt threatened so he shot the kid, don't we all feel sorry for this jerk?

I feel like I'm hearing a lot of excuses for that bad decision that day. This isn't the old West.

NO the defense doesn't have to prove shit. The prosecution has to prove theirs beyond a reasonable doubt. Most people believe that they have failed miserably. It will only get worse as the defense presents their case.

Ernie, I realize you all think you're lawyers but Zimmerman has to introduce some evidence that he acted in self-defense. If that weren't the case, he could simply say that, not show up in court and let the prosecution hammer away at proving their case.

All he would have to do is call in at the end and find out what the verdict is. Please stop trying so hard, everyone here has been watching the case and we do know what is going on.

As for Sunshine explaining to eveyone the intricacies of the law...

As for sarass explaining to everyone the intricacies of the law....

Not one of the several lawyers on here has rallied behind sarass! Telling.

 

[Sunshine]

Just be sure to say "thank God" convincingly during the police interrogation when someone tells you it was caught on camera.

That could be construed to mean that as neighborhood watch commander he knew there were no video cameras there and he also knew how dark it was. It was a self serving statement. The guy is a master trained manipulator who got an a in self defense.

The jury knows he got an A and he lied when he said he knew nothing about stand your ground. He's pathological.

Knowing the law or not knowing the law does not make you a killer. Making an A in Personal Property doesn't mean that you know anything about Real Property, a class you haven't had yet and won't get for another year. And FYI, you don't learn ALL the law in 1 class. That is why a degree takes years to complete.

 

[Sunshine]

I am not the one who is confused.

Let me get this straight. I make a statement about unwritten rules of honor between men. You call that "the dumbest statement" you "have ever read on a forum." Because, evidently you don't want to talk about honor. Then you call me "DUMBrown" again outside the flame zone. Then you "NEGG" me again for the "third time" on this one thread... I get the point that you have an emotional attachment to the killer cause he did away with one of the thugs you don't think have a right to live.. But really, you should come up with a better way to express yourself than calling people names and flaming out neggs. Tsk tsk tsk....

Let it go, RKM...be the bigger person...ignore it...who cares...waaa waaa...youre being a troll....you changed your avie to be more believable...ahole...you whiny *****...F U...nobody wants to hear it....negged...mexican hater!....bully!! etc etc etc.

Wonder why I call you out and not the one who initiated it with a personal attack to an otherwise non personal opinion? Well its simple....youre new around here with little rep power....do you think Im crazy? Im not sticking up for the little fella being trolled.

You have a different opinion, rkm....shame on you! Damn you!!

How dare you defend yourself...At least you werent called a ******.

Negged! And it will be official when my rep opens up.

 

[Sunshine]

NO the defense doesn't have to prove shit. The prosecution has to prove theirs beyond a reasonable doubt. Most people believe that they have failed miserably. It will only get worse as the defense presents their case.

Ernie, I realize you all think you're lawyers but Zimmerman has to introduce some evidence that he acted in self-defense. If that weren't the case, he could simply say that, not show up in court and let the prosecution hammer away at proving their case.

All he would have to do is call in at the end and find out what the verdict is. Please stop trying so hard, everyone here has been watching the case and we do know what is going on.

As for Sunshine explaining to eveyone the intricacies of the law...

I never claimed to possess a vast knowledge of the law, but the basics of our legal system should be covered in 4th grade civics. I do research statutes and study how they apply in specific cases.
What you said, actually is basically true. If the defense feels that the prosecution has not proven it's case, they could skip court and go out for a burger, BUT, we are talking about the next 40 years of a man's life. The defense will put on a case and if you think what you've heard so far was bad for the State, just wait until the defense is done.

Again, Sarah! get your emotions in check. Forget that the dead kid was black and he was shot by a white dude. Put aside your hatred of guns and the concept of self defense. Turn on your brain and look at the case objectively.

Sarass has a brain? Who knew?

 

[Sunshine]

My opinion of george is that he is a loose cannon, an accident waiting to happen.

He was on mind altering meds at the time. They should have used that as a defense and then sued the drug company$

Where do you get this shit? Somewhere, there is a psychiatrist dying to write a book about you.

There is evidence of one of them being on something. Not evidence of another of them being on something.

The ME changed his opinion on the "something" today and the judge carefully ruled on the first instance of that something being admitted. When the ME changed his opinion on it and she ruled on the fly without careful consideration, that may lead to another trial, if need be.

Some very major mistakes were made today in a very questionable line of "mistakes".

Today took the cake of mistakes.

Anyhow. I have a date with Dexter. Blood spatter and psycho expertise is important in these matters.

I have never seen an 'expert' have so little expertise. I think he was trying his best to keep his job with the state, and may have lost it anyway. He said he had testified in a number of other trials. My thought after he was finishes was: How many of them will be reopened? If lawyers for other cases aren't going back and reading trial transcripts within a week, something is wrong with them.

 

[Sunshine]

Where do you get this shit? Somewhere, there is a psychiatrist dying to write a book about you.

There is evidence of one of them being on something. Not evidence of another of them being on something.

The ME changed his opinion on the "something" today and the judge carefully ruled on the first instance of that something being admitted. When the ME changed his opinion on it and she ruled on the fly without careful consideration, that may lead to another trial, if need be.

Some very major mistakes were made today in a very questionable line of "mistakes".

Today took the cake of mistakes.

Anyhow. I have a date with Dexter. Blood spatter and psycho expertise is important in these matters.

speaking of the ME how did that handful of notes

turning into new discovery turn out

The defense got a copy of them.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Oh good grief, I hope they have something better than this bullshit.

They put Zimmerman's parents on first so that they can actually come and view the proceedings. Just like Mr. Martin's parents have been able to for the last couple of weeks.

Scumbag Bernie made them subject to recall so they can't sit in the courtroom.

A truly low rent dick move by the "State."

 

[jon_berzerk]

There is evidence of one of them being on something. Not evidence of another of them being on something.

The ME changed his opinion on the "something" today and the judge carefully ruled on the first instance of that something being admitted. When the ME changed his opinion on it and she ruled on the fly without careful consideration, that may lead to another trial, if need be.

Some very major mistakes were made today in a very questionable line of "mistakes".

Today took the cake of mistakes.

Anyhow. I have a date with Dexter. Blood spatter and psycho expertise is important in these matters.

speaking of the ME how did that handful of notes

turning into new discovery turn out

The defense got a copy of them.

wow what a wild witness

watched the rerun of this guy

our ME is pretty normal

whats up with the bottom of the barrel stuff out there

 

[Sunshine]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/301685-them-what-can-t-take-the-heat.html

 

[Sunshine]

speaking of the ME how did that handful of notes

turning into new discovery turn out

The defense got a copy of them.

wow what a wild witness

watched the rerun of this guy

our ME is pretty normal

whats up with the bottom of the barrel stuff out there

There are a lot of foreign/foreign educated doctors in our state and federal systems. They come here to make a lot of money, but they can't build private practices because people won't go to them. So they work for the state. I have worked with a lot just like him, and worse. I have also worked with some pretty good ones, a few of whom managed to see enough patients in the state hospital who then decided to see them in private practice. Those are the exceptions. Did you notice the ME who worked for the prosecutor was east Indian? A lot of them are psychiatrists, but most started in other specialties in their own countries. But they can't get residencies when they get here in anything much but psychiatry, and forensics.

I'll tell you another little known fact, those foreign doctors and American minorities oppose nurse practitioners the most, the reason being that patients prefer to come to us. When I was a staff nurse in a state hospital the doctor wanted me sitting in on every visit so I could interpret. I had caught on to his accent, but the patients seeing him for the first time did not. And he didn't know the slang that the patients used. Complete waste of nursing time.

I mean seriously, if that guy was in private practice as an MD, would you see him about an illness?

 

[depotoo]

Zimmerman calling 911 50 times actually benefits the defense more than the prosecution. After all, he never shot anyone before. No one ever attacked him before.

Interesting spin.

Let's see if the Defense is stupid enough to try that dopey logic.

Spin? There is no spin. It is fact he called close to 50 times and never once had to pull his gun. That tells much of his story right there.