The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Sunshine]

Those of you who don't think Uncle Jorge could recognize a voice on a tape....you wouldn't recognize YOUR children or family if the same happened and you heard it? Really?

I would and my youngest is George Zimmerman's age.

From what I've heard of Zimmerman's voice, it sounds like him. But, the screams of someone in duress is hardly an exact science.

Regardless, nobody's testimony about whose voice it is will make a lick of difference. The jury will see Zimmerman's wounds in conjunction with the witness testimony that Travis was the attacker and that'll be that.

Although it was not necessary for him to have any wounds to have reasonable fear, it is the wounds that will be the clincher.

 

[testarosa]

Again, if he's off the side walk, like he claims, then blunt force has past no?

As to the "suffocation"... listen to the guy on the audio. Does the guy screaming sound like he's suffocating to you? Last I checked you need air to scream. Just sayin.

If your argument is that GZ was out of his mind with an uncontrollable fear ... I'd agree. Let's get a psych to examine GZ to see if he can plead temporary insanity.

Maybe...just maybe...GZ could have instead been screaming "Im Neighborhood watch and the cops are on the way"...even in the struggle he wont identify himself. I know I would have...thats the first thing that would come to mind if im getting my ass beat.

Eggzactly.. why on earth would anyone think screaming for someone to come help you win a fight is gonna get the guy winning the fight to stop attacking you.

More particularly why would a hispanic guy ask a white guy to help him restrain a black guy? Wouldn't the black guy get even more angry at the hispanic guy for asking the white guy to help him? duh?

It's almost as if GZ does not want the guy to stop. Or more particularly that he's really just trying to stop TM from "getting away."

Daggone it, cowboy!

I think you're all logical and then you say something like this:

It's almost as if GZ does not want the guy to stop.

That makes zero sense and ends up in psychobabble land.

 

[RKMBrown]

Maybe...just maybe...GZ could have instead been screaming "Im Neighborhood watch and the cops are on the way"...even in the struggle he wont identify himself. I know I would have...thats the first thing that would come to mind if im getting my ass beat.

Eggzactly.. why on earth would anyone think screaming for someone to come help you win a fight is gonna get the guy winning the fight to stop attacking you.

More particularly why would a hispanic guy ask a white guy to help him restrain a black guy? Wouldn't the black guy get even more angry at the hispanic guy for asking the white guy to help him? duh?

It's almost as if GZ does not want the guy to stop. Or more particularly that he's really just trying to stop TM from "getting away."

You're making the argument for me there. "Stop attacking you" is continued aggression. Which would be precisely why a person would have a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury.

I understand your point. How can I explain...

When two guys meet in the middle of a yard that have been doing the dance (following each other and making obscene gestures)... it is not unusual for a verbal and / or physical interaction to occur. It happens.

Typically most of those interactions do not escalate. However, when issues of race are involved, and when prior acts are fresh in the minds of the two parties, they will sometimes do things they would not otherwise do. TM was freshly suspended (fact) and looking for someone to take it out on.. (my guess) GZ was freshly disappointed by "them getting away" (fact).

Thus it's not imagination to say one or both of them caused, in part, the incident to occur. GZ through negligence and stupidity, TM through youthful bravado and anger.

Given that they are in a fight.. there are unwritten rules in any given fight that civilized men are expected to adhere to. For example, you don't stab or shoot someone cause you lost the fight.

Stupid rule? Suicidal rule? Maybe... What we have is a society that simultaneously pushes for ZERO tolerance, but somehow 100% tolerance is expected in cases of self defense.

IMO there needs to be some sort of civil code where escalating a fight from fist to weapons is seen as an escalation. You appear to argue the busted nose and scratches and accusation of strangulation are evidence that he had to kill him.. but the nose was minor, the scratches, minor and the strangulation has no proof.

 

[25Caliber]

So, you going to switch sides again?

I never switch sides. I dont have a side as you do. I look at both, so I dont get bored and start flaming those who could potentially disagree.

If it makes sense...I give it to him...if it doesnt...I dont. In the end, hopefully justice is served.

Never switch sides??????

You are only impartial if we take an average.

Nope...I see the good and bad of both...and have made a concerted effort to do so. Im on a message board...I can look at both sides and i dont care what people think. Its more fun to me.

Hard concept for you to understand Im sure. Who knows maybe you resent me because I can and you cant (wont).

 

[Esmeralda]

Again,

Martin Sucker Punches Zimmerman. This right here is not cause to fear for your life.
Zimmerman falls down and Martin climbs on top of him. Still no fear.
Martin pummels Zimmerman, "Ground and Pound". Still just a fight, no fear for life.
Zimmerman screams for help, none comes. Fear is starting to come about but still no reason to kill.
Zimmerman sees someone, that person walks away. Now there's fear, maybe not of death but great bodily harm.
Martin sees gun and says, "You going to die tonight" and goes for gun. Now you are in fear for your life.SELF DEFENSE!

Trayvon didn't say that. He was not a thug, not a killer, not a ganster. He never said that, he wouldn't talk or think like that. Only those who choose to believe he said that believe he said it. Whether you believe it because you are racist and think all black kids are gansters and thugs or because it just suits your pro-gun agenda, doesn't matter. To believe an ordinary teenager said something like that shows complete foolishness and wishful thinking because it is what you want to believe. I doubt Trayvon even reached for the gun. Saying he did and that he said 'you're gonna die tonight' is an obvious lie of Zimmerman's to get out of the accusation he murdered someone for no good reason.

 

[Sunshine]

This is putting me to sleep...

Making a MickeyD's run.

Anyone want anything?

Nah, I'm making homemade French fries tonight.

Twice cooked? I like to boil mine, rinse em, then fry em..

I never use two pans to cook something that one pan will cook. I cook them up crisp and brown, then salt and malt vinegar them down.

 

[Missourian]

Eggzactly.. why on earth would anyone think screaming for someone to come help you win a fight is gonna get the guy winning the fight to stop attacking you.

More particularly why would a hispanic guy ask a white guy to help him restrain a black guy? Wouldn't the black guy get even more angry at the hispanic guy for asking the white guy to help him? duh?

It's almost as if GZ does not want the guy to stop. Or more particularly that he's really just trying to stop TM from "getting away."

You're making the argument for me there. "Stop attacking you" is continued aggression. Which would be precisely why a person would have a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury.

I understand your point. How can I explain...

When two guys meet in the middle of a yard that have been doing the dance (following each other and making obscene gestures)... it is not unusual for a verbal and / or physical interaction to occur. It happens.

Typically most of those interactions do not escalate. However, when issues of race are involved, and when prior acts are fresh in the minds of the two parties, they will sometimes do things they would not otherwise do. TM was freshly suspended (fact) and looking for someone to take it out on.. (my guess) GZ was freshly disappointed by "them getting away" (fact).

Thus it's not imagination to say one or both of them caused the incident to occur. GZ through negligence and stupidity, TM through youthful bravado and anger.

Given that they are in a fight.. there are unwritten rules in any given fight that civilized men are expected to adhere to. For example, you don't stab or shoot someone cause you lost the fight.

...don't get beaten to death...

 

[Sunshine]

Again,

Martin Sucker Punches Zimmerman. This right here is not cause to fear for your life.
Zimmerman falls down and Martin climbs on top of him. Still no fear.
Martin pummels Zimmerman, "Ground and Pound". Still just a fight, no fear for life.
Zimmerman screams for help, none comes. Fear is starting to come about but still no reason to kill.
Zimmerman sees someone, that person walks away. Now there's fear, maybe not of death but great bodily harm.
Martin sees gun and says, "You going to die tonight" and goes for gun. Now you are in fear for your life.SELF DEFENSE!

Trayvon didn't say that. He was not a thug, not a killer, not a ganster. He never said that, he wouldn't talk or think like that. Only those who choose to believe he said that believe he said it. Whether you believe it because you are racist and think all black kids are gansters and thugs or because it just suits your pro-gun agenda, doesn't matter. To believe an ordinary teenager said something like that shows complete foolishness and wishful thinking because it is what you want to believe. I doubt Trayvon even reached for the gun. Saying he did and that he said 'you're gonna die tonight' is an obvious lie of Zimmerman's to get out of the accusation he murdered someone for no good reason.

Well Mz Badahoor said he talked like that.

 

[ScienceRocks]

What happens if 90% of criminals and gangs are black? Somehow within your mind we should arrest(report) innocent people of other races to make it seem like it isn't so.

What kind of country do you people want? I don't want blacks being mistreated or wronged but for us not to realize reality is also very wrong.

 

[testarosa]

I'm back...

Divvy up amongst yourselves...

And one of those Big Macs is mine, Slim Goodbody.

I thought this place was supposed to be fast food. It took you hours.

The worst thing happened to me on the way out the door.

My wife handed me....a LIST!!!!

[youtube]bW7Op86ox9g[/youtube]​

LOL

No wonder it took you so long.

It's as hard on us as it is on you to give you A List.

;-)

 

[Jackson]

I think the number out of Zimmerman's nearly 50 calls which mentioned black people was 7.

Either 6 or 7.

Does it matter as this is a self defense case....A member of the kkk has the same rights to it as anyone else.

Unless we're becoming a very different society indeed.

If Zimmerman really did have it out for blacks as would be implied by him making 50 calls to the police complaining about them, that would matter. If he approached Martin with racial malice, then that could factor into the determination of his intent, which has long been taken into consideration in our society's courts.

Marc has been making stuff up about Zimmerman. I haven't been paying too close of attention to what all he has been saying, but that leapt out at me and serves as a symbol for Marc's disregard of the facts of this case and his willingness to believe anything bad about Zimmerman no matter how little truth there is in it.

Amelia, it has been stated before that most of the calls were on black males. Profiling isn't all that bad. It only makes sense when a rash of burglaries in the past have been done by black males and one should be on the look out for SUSPICIOUS people, and a little old lady would not be one, right?

However, where I have my problem, is that a black male cannot be merely walking by, but something more added to actually be suspicious and leading me to follow them. There were black people living in those homes, so it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to see someone just walking by. But seeing one looking in a window would be something else. Do you see what I mean?

 

[Amelia]

Most of them implicated black people, Templar.

You have no proof of this, Jackson. Stop running your mouth.

George Zimmerman’s relevant past

Meanwhile, over the course of eight years, Zimmerman made at least 46 calls to the Sanford (Fla.) Police Department reporting suspicious activity involving black males.

George Zimmerman?s relevant past

Fewer than 10 of his almost 50 calls mentioned blacks.

 

[25Caliber]

When the follower is also the eventual shooter...then call me skeptical on his version of events that cant be positively backed up. Cant be backed up...didnt happen...dont follow.

Furthermore, just one misstep...one embellishment...one solid inconsistency or lie....and you are toast. I count at least 3 for sure and I have my doubts on about a half a dozen others.

 

[Amelia]

Does it matter as this is a self defense case....A member of the kkk has the same rights to it as anyone else.

Unless we're becoming a very different society indeed.

If Zimmerman really did have it out for blacks as would be implied by him making 50 calls to the police complaining about them, that would matter. If he approached Martin with racial malice, then that could factor into the determination of his intent, which has long been taken into consideration in our society's courts.

Marc has been making stuff up about Zimmerman. I haven't been paying too close of attention to what all he has been saying, but that leapt out at me and serves as a symbol for Marc's disregard of the facts of this case and his willingness to believe anything bad about Zimmerman no matter how little truth there is in it.

Amelia, it has been stated before that most of the calls were on black males. Profiling isn't all that bad. It only makes sense when a rash of burglaries in the past have been done by black males and one should be on the look out for SUSPICIOUS people, and a little old lady would not be one, right?

However, where I have my problem, is that a black male cannot be merely walking by, but something more added to actually be suspicious and leading me to follow them. There were black people living in those homes, so it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to see someone just walking by. But seeing one looking in a window would be something else. Do you see what I mean?

If that was stated before, then it was wrong before.

Most of his calls were not about blacks.

Links have been posted to lists detailing the calls -- not just some blogger's perception about what they add up to.

And in those detailed lists, the figure I remember mentioning blacks is 7.

I know for sure it was less than 10.

 

[R.D.]

Again,

Martin Sucker Punches Zimmerman. This right here is not cause to fear for your life.
Zimmerman falls down and Martin climbs on top of him. Still no fear.
Martin pummels Zimmerman, "Ground and Pound". Still just a fight, no fear for life.
Zimmerman screams for help, none comes. Fear is starting to come about but still no reason to kill.
Zimmerman sees someone, that person walks away. Now there's fear, maybe not of death but great bodily harm.
Martin sees gun and says, "You going to die tonight" and goes for gun. Now you are in fear for your life.SELF DEFENSE!

Trayvon didn't say that. He was not a thug, not a killer, not a ganster. He never said that, he wouldn't talk or think like that. Only those who choose to believe he said that believe he said it. Whether you believe it because you are racist and think all black kids are gansters and thugs or because it just suits your pro-gun agenda, doesn't matter. To believe an ordinary teenager said something like that shows complete foolishness and wishful thinking because it is what you want to believe. I doubt Trayvon even reached for the gun. Saying he did and that he said 'you're gonna die tonight' is an obvious lie of Zimmerman's to get out of the accusation he murdered someone for no good reason.

It's "gangsta"

Insane rant, but spelled right otherwise

 

[MeBelle]

This is total bull shit. He has to have a REASONABLE belief that his life is in imminent danger or great bodily harm. A REAONBLE BELIEF. He doesn't just get to decide, if someone punches him in the nose or knocks him down, that his life is in imminent danger so he gets to use deadly force.

You contradicted yourself.

And yes he does get to decide even without getting punched in the nose or knocked to the ground.

YOU don't get to decide for him how he felt.

 

[Sunshine]

Eggzactly.. why on earth would anyone think screaming for someone to come help you win a fight is gonna get the guy winning the fight to stop attacking you.

More particularly why would a hispanic guy ask a white guy to help him restrain a black guy? Wouldn't the black guy get even more angry at the hispanic guy for asking the white guy to help him? duh?

It's almost as if GZ does not want the guy to stop. Or more particularly that he's really just trying to stop TM from "getting away."

You're making the argument for me there. "Stop attacking you" is continued aggression. Which would be precisely why a person would have a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury.

I understand your point. How can I explain...

When two guys meet in the middle of a yard that have been doing the dance (following each other and making obscene gestures)... it is not unusual for a verbal and / or physical interaction to occur. It happens.

Typically most of those interactions do not escalate. However, when issues of race are involved, and when prior acts are fresh in the minds of the two parties, they will sometimes do things they would not otherwise do. TM was freshly suspended (fact) and looking for someone to take it out on.. (my guess) GZ was freshly disappointed by "them getting away" (fact).

Thus it's not imagination to say one or both of them caused, in part, the incident to occur. GZ through negligence and stupidity, TM through youthful bravado and anger.

Given that they are in a fight.. there are unwritten rules in any given fight that civilized men are expected to adhere to. For example, you don't stab or shoot someone cause you lost the fight.

Stupid rule? Suicidal rule? Maybe... What we have is a society that simultaneously pushes for ZERO tolerance, but somehow 100% tolerance is expected in cases of self defense.

IMO there needs to be some sort of civil code where escalating a fight from fist to weapons is seen as an escalation. You appear to argue the busted nose and scratches and accusation of strangulation are evidence that he had to kill him.. but the nose was minor, the scratches, minor and the strangulation has no proof.

That is the dumbest statement I have ever read on a forum. DUMBrown, ALL the rules are written down. They are called laws.

 

[Missourian]

I thought this place was supposed to be fast food. It took you hours.

The worst thing happened to me on the way out the door.

My wife handed me....a LIST!!!!

[youtube]bW7Op86ox9g[/youtube]​

LOL

No wonder it took you so long.

It's as hard on us as it is on you to give you A List.

;-)

I told her y'all were waitin' on me.

She would have none of it.

She said I could play with my friends after my chores were done.

Missed the big rulin' and errithing...

 

[wharfrat]

Eggzactly.. why on earth would anyone think screaming for someone to come help you win a fight is gonna get the guy winning the fight to stop attacking you.

More particularly why would a hispanic guy ask a white guy to help him restrain a black guy? Wouldn't the black guy get even more angry at the hispanic guy for asking the white guy to help him? duh?

It's almost as if GZ does not want the guy to stop. Or more particularly that he's really just trying to stop TM from "getting away."

You're making the argument for me there. "Stop attacking you" is continued aggression. Which would be precisely why a person would have a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury.

I understand your point. How can I explain...

When two guys meet in the middle of a yard that have been doing the dance (following each other and making obscene gestures)... it is not unusual for a verbal and / or physical interaction to occur. It happens.

Typically most of those interactions do not escalate. However, when issues of race are involved, and when prior acts are fresh in the minds of the two parties, they will sometimes do things they would not otherwise do. TM was freshly suspended (fact) and looking for someone to take it out on.. (my guess) GZ was freshly disappointed by "them getting away" (fact).

Thus it's not imagination to say one or both of them caused, in part, the incident to occur. GZ through negligence and stupidity, TM through youthful bravado and anger.

Given that they are in a fight.. there are unwritten rules in any given fight that civilized men are expected to adhere to. For example, you don't stab or shoot someone cause you lost the fight.

Stupid rule? Suicidal rule? Maybe... What we have is a society that simultaneously pushes for ZERO tolerance, but somehow 100% tolerance is expected in cases of self defense.

IMO there needs to be some sort of civil code where escalating a fight from fist to weapons is seen as an escalation. You appear to argue the busted nose and scratches and accusation of strangulation are evidence that he had to kill him.. but the nose was minor, the scratches, minor and the strangulation has no proof.

You are referencing rules of honor. Rules of morality.

I am referencing rules of law. And in the rule of law, "initial aggressor" is very important when discussing self-defense.

Say I goad you at a bar. Call your woman a whore. I am clearly a sorry ass for doing so, and probably deserve a good beating. I'm dishonorable, clearly not on moral high ground. But in the eyes of the law, if you throw the first punch, you are the initial aggressor, and I can respond with the force necessary to defend myself.

EDIT: I see you added to your post. In this case, the defense is arguing that, in fact, Mr. Martin was armed. Not with a knife, but with the concrete sidewalk as a weapon.

 

[Ernie S.]

bu....bu.....bu....li'l trayvon's mother know huh li'l chile....huh li'l angel..

did she actually imply that trayvon was an angel? If she did, it opens a huge can of worms.

she did. And they showed the tweet on cnn. You got an extra fishing pole?

fulton posted on twitter friday, saying “i pray that god give me the strength to properly represent my angel trayvon.”

trayvon martin?s mother takes stand, tweets prayer for strength to ?properly represent? Son « cbs tampa

m.d.s.p.d.