The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Yurt]

You were certainly referring to it. It does matter if GZ started it, damn right, it does. TM had the right to defend himself, and he had no obligation to retreat, and if GZ had a gun, TM had the right to beat him into the ground. GZ could only shoot TM if he thought his life was in danger. It was not.

And learn "English" and "countersuit" and "courts-martial" and "sergeants-major" for plural.

If Martin was reaching for Zimmerman's gun, then there's reason to believe it was.

Only if, and this has not been proven, that GZ did not provoke an incident or attack. If he did not and TM reached for the, gun, then, yes, GZ was justified in shooting.

absolutely wrong. zimmerman can provoke an incident and still claim self defense.

how many times do i have to say this?

 

[R.D.]

Since Snook appears to have scurried off into it's hole...

Can anyone answer this question for me? Honestly, I'd like to know. I haven't followed every aspect of the case, but I don't understand how so many claim to be absolutely sure that Zimmerman followed and confronted Martin after being asked not to do so.

How do you know this?

The twisted logic is he wasn't in his car.

Okay, but wasn't it revealed in his sworn testimony that he was simply heading to where he knew the police would show up...to let them know he was the one that called 911?

I'm still looking for a cogent response. How are so many here just positive that Zimmerman followed and confronted Martin? Where is the evidence for that?

Anyone???

Yes, you're right.
It's my opinion they just need it to be the case to save face. They were played and that's a hard pill to swallow

 

[MeBelle]

Hey SF!

My point with the reaching is that if he is following in the dark and rain and is not identifying himself, then at the point of confrontation when he reaches could be argued an aggressive action.

Trayvon asking his follower why he is being followed is not unlawful either.

To me the prosecution should be trying to show that it was GZ who was the aggressor...sure, we all know now that GZ was the NH watch captain, but Tray didnt know at the time, nor would have any of us. It was just someone following him.

Disclaimer: I am not SF

Here's my question(s):
Why would GZ have to identify himself to anyone, except to the police, if he was running an errand and sitting in his parked vehicle?

In the same vein, why didn't TM share his identity instead of:
"TM, "Yo, you got a problem?" and walked toward [GZ].
GZ: "No, I don't have a problem," .
TM: 'You got a problem now.'

 

[RKMBrown]

I spent 25 years working where I saw plenty of thugs just like li'l Trayvon. They are professional victims. The world caused their failure. It was mean ole........... You name it. Their drug use, criminal activity, and other antisocial behavior had nothing to do with the mega failures their lives are. NOOOOOOOOOOOsireeeeeeeeee. And now he can't play the victim on his own accord, mamma and daddy are playing it for him. Never mind that he was more a victim of PPP than anything else. (Piss poor parenting.)

After working 25 years in psych, it takes me about 5 minutes to see right through you.

Tell us Sunshine, what gave you this impression that Trayvon is not worthy to live on your planet? Smoking weed? Why couldn't Trayvon have turned his life around like Obama did? Tray is a dead unarmed 17 year old teenager who was being followed in the rain in the dark by adult. Zim is the one with "priors" not Trayvon.

By your measure someone should've shot Barry before he had a chance to get elected.. oh nvm I'm wasting my time.

 

[The Rabbi]

The purpose of all of this is to find out if he is guilty of murdering that unarmed kid.

Saying he is innocent before a judgement is even read is ridiculous.

Wrong. No wonder you can't understand any of this.
Zimmerman shot and killed Martin. That part is undisputed. He should be guilty of manslaughter. His affirmative defense is that he did so in self defense. So the question becomes: Was he reasonably in fear of death or severe bodily harm when he fired at Martin? If the answer is Yes he should be acquitted.

I think cross examination of the PA today started down that path. It is pretty clear that there were more lesions and swelling to the head than can be seen on just the one pic that has circulated on the internet. There is no requirement that one sustain a life threatening injury to be in 'reasonable fear.' Reasonable fear is a subjective standard.

I'm not sure how the trial will conclude, but I don't see Zimmerman, at this point, spending his life in prison.

No, it's what a reasonable person would think in those circumstances. I can't imagine the ladies in the jury box thinking everything would be hunky dory with a large black man pounding their heads into the pavement.

 

[Ernie S.]

My question is why is it that (predictably) the rightwing tea party types are rooting so hard for Zimmerman?

Perhaps because we understand the concept of self defense.

 

[Yurt]

just to show how wrong jakey is, here is the FL statute that will be used in the trial:

Florida Statutes (Fla. Stat.)

Title XLVI. Crimes.

Chapter 776: JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—

The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

Law of Self Defense ? FL 776.041?Use of force by aggressor.?The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

 

[R.D.]

Can anyone answer this question for me? Honestly, I'd like to know. I haven't followed every aspect of the case, but I don't understand how so many claim to be absolutely sure that Zimmerman followed and confronted Martin after being asked not to do so.

How do you know this?

The twisted logic is he wasn't in his car.

Drum roll please....

Is it OK if I join the tea party and STILL think that the kid would be alive if Zimmerman had just stayed in his car? Is that reasonable?

 

[ScienceRocks]

The witness said
-Lighter colored man on bottom(Zimmerman)
-Darker on top(trayvon)
-Red coat man on bottom(Zimmerman)

Cuts on back of head and broken nose(Zimmerman)

A 5 year old can tell that Trayvon was beating up Zimmerman.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

My question is why is it that (predictably) the rightwing tea party types are rooting so hard for Zimmerman?

I for one am not 'rooting' for either side. I am interested in hearing why some here are just so damn sure Zimmerman followed, confronted and attacked Martin.

How can they possible know this?

'Cause they're psychicwannabes.

 

[Sunshine]

Typical 25 year old response. Do allow me to correct your misperceptions.

Actually I am not a lawyer. I have a JD. I am not a doctor. I am a board certified NP. And I am not a psychologist. My Master of Science in Nursing is in psychiatry. See, how far off you are reading into something what you want it to say. So far, that is all you have been doing. Filling in the blanks the way you want them filled. Those blanks are now being filled by witnesses. And I really hate that it upsets you, but I do know more about the law, medicine, and human nature than a lot of people on the earth know. The fact that I survived for 25 years of direct patient care, minus 3 years of teaching, with only one assault by a patient speaks well for my ability to read a situation that involves violence.

Li'l Trayvon is far more usual than most on here want to believe. At least in the world I have spent most of the past 25 years in. His parents both crapped out on his when he needed them the most. And now they HAVE to make their failure someone else's fault.

I do hope by the time you are my age, you will have gained some insight.

Tell us Sunshine, what gave you this impression that Trayvon is not worthy to live on your planet? Smoking weed? Why couldn't Trayvon have turned his life around like Obama did? Tray is a dead unarmed 17 year old teenager who was being followed in the rain in the dark by adult. Zim is the one with "priors" not Trayvon.

By your measure someone should've shot Barry before he had a chance to get elected.. oh nvm I'm wasting my time.

You too read what you want to read and not what is.

 

[RKMBrown]

Okay fine....I said I wasn't going to get involved. What a liar I am.
I'm pissed mostly about the fact that NONE of us can get into a good fist fight and expect that that's all it's going to be. You get your ass kicked?? Fine. Lick your wounds and go home. Busted noses....heads......whatever. Why is everyone packing now?? I'm full-on Irish.....I'll fight in a heartbeat. BUT NOW......bring guns to a fist fight.
I watched a little today and the thing that really got my attention was when the assholes from CNN said, MAYBE.....just MAYBE.....Trayvon was the one screaming for help as he was kicking GZ ass.
Please don't get me wrong....I fully understand where this trial is going.....but....what a *****. GZ was just LAYING for anyone to get into his sights.
BUT according to the law......he could do what he did.

^^ this.. yeah I'm half irish.. agree fist fights are a time honored way to settle disputes Bringing a knife fight or gun to a fist fight and killing someone if you are loosing? Ick. However, if it's possible Tray reached for the gun... then maybe GZ really was left with no choice.. maybe..

 

[skye]

Can anybody please tell me why did they choose an all women jury?

I've never heard of that before.

 

[IrishTexanChick]

Okay fine....I said I wasn't going to get involved. What a liar I am.
I'm pissed mostly about the fact that NONE of us can get into a good fist fight and expect that that's all it's going to be. You get your ass kicked?? Fine. Lick your wounds and go home. Busted noses....heads......whatever. Why is everyone packing now?? I'm full-on Irish.....I'll fight in a heartbeat. BUT NOW......bring guns to a fist fight.
I watched a little today and the thing that really got my attention was when the assholes from CNN said, MAYBE.....just MAYBE.....Trayvon was the one screaming for help as he was kicking GZ ass.
Please don't get me wrong....I fully understand where this trial is going.....but....what a *****. GZ was just LAYING for anyone to get into his sights.
BUT according to the law......he could do what he did.

^^ this.. yeah I'm half irish.. agree fist fights are a time honored way to settle disputes Bringing a knife fight or gun to a fist fight and killing someone if you are loosing? Ick. However, if it's possible Tray reached for the gun... then maybe GZ really was left with no choice.. maybe..

You are very correct.....it could be. Maybe...
BUT....if someone where trying to get a gun out of their pocket and you were trying to stop them. You definately try to (at the very least) divert the gun from your direction.
This is so bad.

 

[R.D.]

Okay fine....I said I wasn't going to get involved. What a liar I am.
I'm pissed mostly about the fact that NONE of us can get into a good fist fight and expect that that's all it's going to be. You get your ass kicked?? Fine. Lick your wounds and go home. Busted noses....heads......whatever. Why is everyone packing now?? I'm full-on Irish.....I'll fight in a heartbeat. BUT NOW......bring guns to a fist fight.
I watched a little today and the thing that really got my attention was when the assholes from CNN said, MAYBE.....just MAYBE.....Trayvon was the one screaming for help as he was kicking GZ ass.
Please don't get me wrong....I fully understand where this trial is going.....but....what a *****. GZ was just LAYING for anyone to get into his sights.
BUT according to the law......he could do what he did.

Actually he didn't 'bring a gun to a fist fight' the fistfight was started by a fool who didn't know there was a gun.

Wait for the defense, tray went for the gun.

 

[ScienceRocks]

It's a PC rat race that's why.

 

[RKMBrown]

Bias? Really! I don't find Zimmerman's version implausible. And FYI, I spent 25 years working where I saw plenty of thugs just like li'l Trayvon. They are professional victims. The world caused their failure. It was mean ole........... You name it. Their drug use, criminal activity, and other antisocial behavior had nothing to do with the mega failures their lives are. NOOOOOOOOOOOsireeeeeeeeee. And now he can't play the victim on his own accord, mamma and daddy are playing it for him. Never mind that he was more a victim of PPP than anything else. (Piss poor parenting.)

After working 25 years in psych, it takes me about 5 minutes to see right through you.

I know....I know...you are a lawyer, a doctor, a psychologist, and a youth developer specializing in gang life....lol...all of them for about 25 years.

Mr Z goooooood.....trayvon...baaaaaaaaad. Right. Z did everything right and trayvon did everything wrong, right? I look elsewhere for objective thinking...its not in your dna. Lata...and READ THIS!

Typical 25 year old response. Do allow me to correct your misperceptions.

Actually I am not a lawyer. I have a JD. I am not a doctor. I am a board certified NP. And I am not a psychologist. My Master of Science in Nursing is in psychiatry. See, how far off you are reading into something what you want it to say. So far, that is all you have been doing. Filling in the blanks the way you want them filled. Those blanks are now being filled by witnesses. And I really hate that it upsets you, but I do know more about the law, medicine, and human nature than a lot of people on the earth know. The fact that I survived for 25 years of direct patient care, minus 3 years of teaching, with only one assault by a patient speaks well for my ability to read a situation that involves violence.

Li'l Trayvon is far more usual than most on here want to believe. At least in the world I have spent most of the past 25 years in. His parents both crapped out on his when he needed them the most. And now they HAVE to make their failure someone else's fault.

I do hope by the time you are my age, you will have gained some insight.

IOW you spent a lifetime dealing with psych patients, and you are projecting your experience and anger on everyone on this board and trayvon, while simultaneously ignoring the fact that Zimmerman was reportedly on Temazepam and Adderall at the time of the fight. Correct?

 

[skye]

but can they do that? is that legal?

 

[Sunshine]

Okay fine....I said I wasn't going to get involved. What a liar I am.
I'm pissed mostly about the fact that NONE of us can get into a good fist fight and expect that that's all it's going to be. You get your ass kicked?? Fine. Lick your wounds and go home. Busted noses....heads......whatever. Why is everyone packing now?? I'm full-on Irish.....I'll fight in a heartbeat. BUT NOW......bring guns to a fist fight.
I watched a little today and the thing that really got my attention was when the assholes from CNN said, MAYBE.....just MAYBE.....Trayvon was the one screaming for help as he was kicking GZ ass.
Please don't get me wrong....I fully understand where this trial is going.....but....what a *****. GZ was just LAYING for anyone to get into his sights.
BUT according to the law......he could do what he did.

^^ this.. yeah I'm half irish.. agree fist fights are a time honored way to settle disputes Bringing a knife fight or gun to a fist fight and killing someone if you are loosing? Ick. However, if it's possible Tray reached for the gun... then maybe GZ really was left with no choice.. maybe..

The policeman who testified said that Zimmerman's coat was short enough that the gun was visible to another party. It almost sounded as if the gun had been in Trayvon's hand at one point. But he was telling what he was told, as he wasn't there to see it himself. Likely they will visit that issue with Zimmerman himself.

 

[MeBelle]

My question is why is it that (predictably) the rightwing tea party types are rooting so hard for Zimmerman?

My question is why do you ASSume the rightwing tea party types are rooting so hard for Zimmerman?

The majority are looking at established evidence and rooting for a clean trial.