The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Scalp Hematoma - blood pooling in the scalp due to head trauma.

https://twitter.com/WildAboutTrial/status/350723033507450880/photo/1

 

[RKMBrown]

Yes. John Good.

I thought Good said straddling in the MMA style. I did not hear him say slamming, pounding.. nothing more than on top. But I might have missed it had to do some work.

He said Martin was punching downward towards Zimmerman's head. He said Martin was on top of Zimmerman who was on the bottom flat on his back. He could not hear the strikes or see the strikes. He said it appeared to be Martin "ground & pounding" Zimmerman on the concrete.

Thanks. Was Zimmerman blocking in the MMA style? Was that even asked? If you are close enough to see it but don't hear... I'd guess Zim was blocking the blows. Were the blows slaps or were they punches..

 

[MeBelle]

FB Coach says Trayvon was a great kid. Non-confrontational.

What year did TM play FB?

Bering suspended from school = losing the privilege to play FB.

Annnnnnnnnd...how can anyone be non-confrontational if they do play FB, unless someone is the water boy? One has to be somewhat aggressive!!

Disclaimer: I am not implying that TM was a water boy.

 

[Trajan]

it appears things didn't go well for the prosecution today?

 

[Yurt]

I haven't paid a lot of attention to the thread until the last few minutes, but he's been remarkably lucid for a libtard.

I think you're arguing about two different things but if Z started the fight, he's got problems.

At the end of the Trial, either side can ask for 'Lesser Charges' to be considered by the Jury. I suspect the prosecution will do just that

explain to me then how jake can't grasp the concept that just because you start the fight, means you have no right to self defense.

i believe you understand that concept. why doesn't he?

You have the right to self-defense to the extent that you may not be eligible for a Murder I conviction. But Man II or Man I is a strong possibility.

You can't have a CCW in Florida and go around starting fights. You're going to jail if you do.

If it's ancillary, if you're defending another person.... It's called "Stand In Shoes" down here, then that's not starting a fight. Different ballgame. If you're chasing a bad guy that ran off with your personal property, that's also allowed. If you're defedning your porperty, your family, etc. Okay.

But if you just decide you don't like somebody's looks and start an altercation with him? Regardless of who escalates what, you got a problem.

I can't envision a man like Z doing that. Most of us with a CCW are very aware of the rules.

here is the main issue in this case: self defense.

even if zimmerman started the altercation, if martin escalated it beyond reasonable self defense, and zimmerman can prove killing martin was reasonable self defense, then zimmerman likely walks. no MS or anything else should be allowed if the killing is deemed justifiable. if the jury believes he had a right to defend himself in the manner he did, then he should be exonerated.

 

[MeBelle]

Zimmerman was "obeese".

Not as obeese at the time of the fight... additionally Zim was the one getting MMA training. The fight we saw of TM showed TM slapping hardly a trained fighter.

That was at the time of the fight. He's obeeser now

Z was obese @ the time of the shooting.

Search 'BMI Calculator'.

 

[KissMy]

Yes that guy is skinny, definitely not fat. He's also muscular.. muscles weigh more than fat. Was the boy muscular? I don't know. But we do know GZ was working out to become a fighter.

Trevon did play football. We can assume he was in good shape. Zimmerman was fat. He may have been training, but He was in no where near the condition of Martin.

Not if he was suspended from school.

Martin was still in shape because he was only suspended for 2 weeks prior to his death. He was in the care of a juvenile detention officer at the time of his death.

 

[RKMBrown]

ok.. yeah if he was blocking his hands had to be up.. and he could have been screaming for help while blocking... if TM felt the gun at that point he might have reached for it.. Then Zim would have had to fight for the gun.. the angle would have been wrong to get into the pocket for TM... Zim would have been able to get his hand in more easily.. then in the fight for the gun... as he's pulling it up and out..

Ok that all makes sense, is plausible.

 

[Edgetho]

explain to me then how jake can't grasp the concept that just because you start the fight, means you have no right to self defense.

i believe you understand that concept. why doesn't he?

You have the right to self-defense to the extent that you may not be eligible for a Murder I conviction. But Man II or Man I is a strong possibility.

You can't have a CCW in Florida and go around starting fights. You're going to jail if you do.

If it's ancillary, if you're defending another person.... It's called "Stand In Shoes" down here, then that's not starting a fight. Different ballgame. If you're chasing a bad guy that ran off with your personal property, that's also allowed. If you're defedning your porperty, your family, etc. Okay.

But if you just decide you don't like somebody's looks and start an altercation with him? Regardless of who escalates what, you got a problem.

I can't envision a man like Z doing that. Most of us with a CCW are very aware of the rules.

here is the main issue in this case: self defense.

even if zimmerman started the altercation, if martin escalated it beyond reasonable self defense, and zimmerman can prove killing martin was reasonable self defense, then zimmerman likely walks. no MS or anything else should be allowed if the killing is deemed justifiable. if the jury believes he had a right to defend himself in the manner he did, then he should be exonerated.

Maybe.

I'd like to see some case law on that.

 

[RKMBrown]

FB Coach says Trayvon was a great kid. Non-confrontational.

What year did TM play FB?

Bering suspended from school = losing the privilege to play FB.

Annnnnnnnnd...how can anyone be non-confrontational if they do play FB, unless someone is the water boy? One has to be somewhat aggressive!!

Disclaimer: I am not implying that TM was a water boy.

I believe the video I linked above shows Tray in FB the year of the incident.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

FB Coach says Trayvon was a great kid. Non-confrontational.

What year did TM play FB?

Bering suspended from school = losing the privilege to play FB.

Annnnnnnnnd...how can anyone be non-confrontational if they do play FB, unless someone is the water boy? One has to be somewhat aggressive!!

Disclaimer: I am not implying that TM was a water boy.

I haven't found anything saying he was playing football the last year he was in school, but these links do mention him being a varsity player:

Miami-Dade School Supt. Livid Over Leak Of Trayvon Martin?s Records « CBS Miami

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/30/us/trayvon-martin-profile

Change of Subject: On Trayvon Martin -- Updated

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

it appears things didn't go well for the prosecution today?

That would be correct. Their witnesses are more or less suited for the defense.

 

[RKMBrown]

Zona??? Where did you go?

Yes that guy is skinny, definitely not fat. He's also muscular.. muscles weigh more than fat. Was the boy muscular? I don't know. But we do know GZ was working out to become a fighter.

Do you think the MMA champ pictured above could beat up a 200 pound man?

Absolutely. While a trained heavy weight has an advantage, intent, skill, and the amount of fight in the dog also weigh heavily in any fight. Zimmerman does not appear have a lot of fight if you know what I mean.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

More from the medical records of Z the day after the incident:

He had 2 black eyes - possibly as an after-effect of the broken nose.

 

[RKMBrown]

it appears things didn't go well for the prosecution today?

That would be correct. Their witnesses are more or less suited for the defense.

IMO the state should be trying to get to the truth whatever that is.

 

[KissMy]

Stream is down. Does anyone have a link up that's working?

Nevermind, it just came up.

The Orlando Sentential has a good real time video stream.

 

[MeBelle]

it appears things didn't go well for the prosecution today?

Don't know, didn't watch.
The logical conclusion taken from the posts here would indicate you are correct, Spock.

Navigational pull and all

Beam Us Up! Scene from Star Trek Movie (2009) | MOVIECLIPS

 

[eflatminor]

His duty was not to confront but to call 911 according to the neighborhood watch rules and what the 911 guy told him.

And according to Zimmerman's sworn testimony, that's exactly what he did. Zimmerman claimed it was Martin that came back and assaulted him.

I'm not saying that's the truth (how could I know?), but I wonder how you're so damn sure it isn't. Care to explain?

TM's dead body.

You didn't answer the question. The fact Martin ended up dead does not mean Zimmerman confronted him after being asked by the 911 operator not to do so.

So, again, HOW DO YOU KNOW Zimmerman followed and confronted Martin? Stated differently how do you know Zimmerman lied? Looking for evidence, logic or reason.

 

[Yurt]

You have the right to self-defense to the extent that you may not be eligible for a Murder I conviction. But Man II or Man I is a strong possibility.

You can't have a CCW in Florida and go around starting fights. You're going to jail if you do.

If it's ancillary, if you're defending another person.... It's called "Stand In Shoes" down here, then that's not starting a fight. Different ballgame. If you're chasing a bad guy that ran off with your personal property, that's also allowed. If you're defedning your porperty, your family, etc. Okay.

But if you just decide you don't like somebody's looks and start an altercation with him? Regardless of who escalates what, you got a problem.

I can't envision a man like Z doing that. Most of us with a CCW are very aware of the rules.

here is the main issue in this case: self defense.

even if zimmerman started the altercation, if martin escalated it beyond reasonable self defense, and zimmerman can prove killing martin was reasonable self defense, then zimmerman likely walks. no MS or anything else should be allowed if the killing is deemed justifiable. if the jury believes he had a right to defend himself in the manner he did, then he should be exonerated.

Maybe.

I'd like to see some case law on that.

the plethora of case law on this will provide you ample opportunity to review the issue. i have, however, provided a more concise view in the california penal code:

CA Codes (pen:187-199)

see specifically for this case 197-199

 

[Yurt]

and yes, i know the case is from FL, but i just happen to know the CA code