The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[CrusaderFrank]

Maybe you are confused because of the Trinity Test. That was on a 100 foot tower. And the first detonation of a plutonium bomb was from that tower.

But please, try doing research instead of relying on decades old memories.

Please STFU.

Thank you

 

[Rigby5]

yet, here we are, with facts

WW2's Last Dogfight – Meet the Pilots Who Fought a Deadly Air Duel Over Tokyo the Day Japan Surrendered - MilitaryHistoryNow.com

Four Grumman Hellcats from the USS Yorktown were in the air near Tokyo when word of Japan's surrender was announced on Aug. 15, 1945. Moments later, the flight would find itself in a furious dogfight against 20 enemy warplanes.

militaryhistorynow.com

FEW HISTORY BOOKS mention the names Billy Hobbs, Eugene Mandeberg, Howard “Howdy” Harrison and Joseph Sahloff. Yet, these four American naval pilots earned themselves a grim place in the annals of the Second World War: All were shot down in a fierce dogfight that raged over the Japan on Aug. 15, 1945 – mere hours after Emperor Hirohito had announced his country’s unconditional surrender.


My most recent book, Dogfight over Tokyo, tells the story of these four men, the last Americans to die in combat in World War Two.

Wrong.
If you read it, these US planes were shot down by antiaircraft fire, NOT a dogfight.
{...
More losses would follow that month when the Air Group challenged Kure Naval Base, an enemy outpost protected by guns placed on nearby hills and more batteries anchored on warships. In fact, veteran fighter pilots cautioned the Air Group 88 aviators to “stay away from Kure.”

During the July 24, 1945 attack, multi-coloured antiaircraft bursts greeted the Air Group while it was still five miles from its target.

“They shot coloured tracers and everything they had,” said torpedo gunner Ralph Morlan. “[It was] the heaviest barrage I have ever seen yet.”

Seven Americans died in the attack on Kure, bringing the unit’s total battle casualties in only three weeks of action to 12.
...}

And obviously even that was desperation, where they had to resort to firing tracers, which are only useful at night.

 

[Rigby5]

If the Japanese had any significant aircraft left by then, then the long bombers that dropped the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki have easily been shot down.
They were alone, slow, and an easy target.
The fact they were not attacked, shows that Japan was essentially defenseless, and no longer had any airplanes they could put up.

 

[Rigby5]

The Hiroshima bomb was air burst.

{...
At 08:09, Tibbets started his bomb run and handed control over to his bombardier, Major Thomas Ferebee.[138] The release at 08:15 (Hiroshima time) went as planned, and the Little Boy containing about 64 kg (141 lb) of uranium-235 took 44.4 seconds to fall from the aircraft flying at about 31,000 feet (9,400 m) to a detonation height of about 1,900 feet (580 m) above the city.[139][140] Enola Gay traveled 11.5 mi (18.5 km) before it felt the shock waves from the blast.[141]
...}

Apparently so was the Nagasaki bomb.
{...
At 11:01 Japanese Time, a last-minute break in the clouds over Nagasaki allowed Bockscar's bombardier, Captain Kermit Beahan, to visually sight the target as ordered. The Fat Man weapon, containing a core of about 5 kg (11 lb) of plutonium, was dropped over the city's industrial valley. It exploded 47 seconds later at 11:02 Japanese Time[195] at 1,650 ± 33 ft (503 ± 10 m), above a tennis court,[209] halfway between the Mitsubishi Steel and Arms Works in the south and the Nagasaki Arsenal in the north. This was nearly 3 km (1.9 mi) northwest of the planned hypocenter; the blast was confined to the Urakami Valley and a major portion of the city was protected by the intervening hills.[210] The resulting explosion released the equivalent energy of 21 ± 2 kt (87.9 ± 8.4 TJ).[139] Big Stink spotted the explosion from a hundred miles away, and flew over to observe.[211]
...}

Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rigby5]

That was our fault?

We begged them to surrender.Blame the Japs Skippy

No, we would not LET them surrender.
The Japanese had been begging to surrender for over 6 months, and we would not let them.

 

[Rigby5]

We knew the Japanese were trying to surrender, but we would not let them.

{...
However, the overwhelming historical evidence from U.S. and Japanese archives indicates that Japan would have surrendered in August even if the atomic bombs had not been used, and the documents show that President Truman and his closest advisors knew this.

The Allied demand for unconditional surrender caused the Japanese to fear that the emperor, whom many considered a deity, would be tried as a war criminal and executed. A study by General Douglas MacArthur’s Southwest Pacific Command compared the emperor’s execution to “the crucifixion of Christ for us.”

“Unconditional surrender is the only obstacle to peace,” sent Foreign Minister Shigenori Togo to Ambassador Naotake Sato, who was in Moscow on July 12, 1945, trying to convince the Soviet Union to negotiate acceptable surrender terms on behalf of Japan.

But the Soviet Union’s entry into the war on August 8 changed everything for the Japanese leadership, which privately acknowledged the need to surrender quickly.

Allied intelligence services had been warning for months that the Soviet Union’s entry into the war would force the Japanese to surrender. As early as April 11, 1945, the Joint Chiefs of Staff Intelligence had predicted, “If at any time the USSR enters the war, all Japanese will understand that absolute defeat is inevitable.”

Truman knew that the Japanese were looking for a way to end the war; he had described the cable intercepted from Togo on July 12 as “a telegram from the Emperor of Japan asking for peace.”

Truman also knew that the Soviet invasion would put Japan out of the war. At the Potsdam summit in Germany on July 17, after Stalin assured him that the Soviets were arriving on time, Truman wrote in his diary, “Will be at war with Japan on August 15. There will be no more Japanese when that happens.” The next day he assured his wife, “Now we’ll end the war a year early, and think of the children who won’t die!”

The Soviets invaded Japanese-controlled Manchuria at midnight on August 8 and quickly destroyed the venerable Kwantung Army. Predictably, the attack traumatized the Japanese leadership. They could not fight a war on two fronts, and the threat of a communist takeover of Japanese territory was their worst nightmare.

On August 13, Prime Minister Kantaro Suzuki explained that Japan must surrender quickly because “the Soviet Union will take not only Manchuria, Korea and Karafuto, but also Hokkaido.” This would destroy the foundations of Japan. We must end the war when we can deal with the United States.”
...}

Truman knew that in 1945 Japan would have surrendered without dropping atomic bombs.

For 75 years in the United States it has been accepted that dropping the bombs on Hiroshima on August 6, 1945 and on Nagasaki three days later was the only way to end World War II without an invasi…

elcolectivodeuno.wordpress.com

 

[Rigby5]

Read the "Potsdam Diaries", by Truman.
He discussed with Stalin, how to pretend to not understand attempts at surrender, so we could test both nuclear devices.

 

[Zincwarrior]

The truth is not hate dumb ass.

Russobot.

 

[Dayton3]

If the Japanese had any significant aircraft left by then, then the long bombers that dropped the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki have easily been shot down.
They were alone, slow, and an easy target.
The fact they were not attacked, shows that Japan was essentially defenseless, and no longer had any airplanes they could put up.

Single bombers (or three in the case of Hiroshima) were not considered a significant threat which is why the Japanese didn't bother sounding the air raid sirens when Enola Gay, the instrument carrying bomber and the camera carrying bomber were sited.

 

[Rigby5]

Single bombers (or three in the case of Hiroshima) were not considered a significant threat which is why the Japanese didn't bother sounding the air raid sirens when Enola Gay, the instrument carrying bomber and the camera carrying bomber were sited.

Sure, but if they had any planes, they still would have launched them, to try to knock out such an easy target.

 

[Dayton3]

Sure, but if they had any planes, they still would have launched them, to try to knock out such an easy target.

Would they given how terribly low on usable fuel the Japanese were by then?

I mean come on. They were so bereft of fuel that they sent the battleship Yamato on a one way suicide mission.

 

[Rigby5]

Would they given how terribly low on usable fuel the Japanese were by then?

I mean come on. They were so bereft of fuel that they sent the battleship Yamato on a one way suicide mission.

Well that is the point, that they no longer had any significant defensive capability.
Conducting nuclear experiments on them then was pretty gross.

 

[Dayton3]

Well that is the point, that they no longer had any significant defensive capability.
Conducting nuclear experiments on them then was pretty gross.

What was wrong with that?

 

[AZrailwhale]

You should really read up on their invasion of Manchuria. They rolled the place up so quickly the puppet government didn't even have a chance to escape.

They had over 100 Division lined up... By October, they'd have been in Japan proper while we were still slogging on the beaches. Hokkaido was completely undefended.

The only problem with that fiction is that the Soviets had no way to get to Japan. The Soviet Pacific "Fleet" amounted to a tiny task force smaller than the DEI Navy was in 1941. The US had lent the Soviets enough landing craft to land a single infantry division without artillery or tank support. Operational losses would deplete the landing craft at at least a rate of twenty percent per wave, probably higher since the Soviet coxswains would be untrained, or at best badly trained green amateurs who would damage their own boats through bad boat handling.
The Japanese had at least two infantry divisions plus tens of thousands of militia on Hokkaido. Based upon the fighting on Okinawa the Japanese would have slaughtered the poorly armed and supplied Soviets. The Japanese were particularly tenacious when defending their own territory.

 

[Rigby5]

What was wrong with that?

Because nuclear weapons are illegal.
They are not a clean kill like a bullet.
They burn, poison, and kill slowly and painfully.

 

[Rigby5]

The only problem with that fiction is that the Soviets had no way to get to Japan. The Soviet Pacific "Fleet" amounted to a tiny task force smaller than the DEI Navy was in 1941. The US had lent the Soviets enough landing craft to land a single infantry division without artillery or tank support. Operational losses would deplete the landing craft at at least a rate of twenty percent per wave, probably higher since the Soviet coxswains would be untrained, or at best badly trained green amateurs who would damage their own boats through bad boat handling.
The Japanese had at least two infantry divisions plus tens of thousands of militia on Hokkaido. Based upon the fighting on Okinawa the Japanese would have slaughtered the poorly armed and supplied Soviets. The Japanese were particularly tenacious when defending their own territory.

Russia did attack Japan in WWII.

{...
At the February 1945 Yalta Conference, Stalin agreed that the Soviet Union would enter the war against Japan three months after Germany’s surrender. The Yalta declaration gave Moscow back southern Sakhalin, which Japan had seized during the Russo-Japanese War in 1904-05, as well as the Kurile Island chain to which Russia had renounced its claim in 1875. Mongolia was also to be recognized as an independent state (it was already a Soviet client), and Soviet interests in the naval base at the Chinese port of Port Arthur (Dalian) and the Manchurian railway that it had controlled before 1905 were to be respected.

A massive invasion of Manchuria began the day after the Soviet declaration of war. Soviet forces also conducted amphibious landings along Japan’s colonial periphery: Japan’s Northern Territories, on Sakhalin Island, and in the northern part of the Korean Peninsula. The Soviet invasion of Manchuria created a haven for Chinese communist forces, who had been fighting both the Japanese and Chiang Kai-shek’s Nationalists, aiding the communists’ eventual triumph in 1948.
...}

 

[AZrailwhale]

Because nuclear weapons are illegal.
They are not a clean kill like a bullet.
They burn, poison, and kill slowly and painfully.

Nukes weren’t illegal then and aren’t today. Bullets don’t kill cleanly in most cases, unless you are “lucky” enough to be hit in the brain or heart, you die slowly and in great pain.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Russia did attack Japan in WWII.

{...
At the February 1945 Yalta Conference, Stalin agreed that the Soviet Union would enter the war against Japan three months after Germany’s surrender. The Yalta declaration gave Moscow back southern Sakhalin, which Japan had seized during the Russo-Japanese War in 1904-05, as well as the Kurile Island chain to which Russia had renounced its claim in 1875. Mongolia was also to be recognized as an independent state (it was already a Soviet client), and Soviet interests in the naval base at the Chinese port of Port Arthur (Dalian) and the Manchurian railway that it had controlled before 1905 were to be respected.

A massive invasion of Manchuria began the day after the Soviet declaration of war. Soviet forces also conducted amphibious landings along Japan’s colonial periphery: Japan’s Northern Territories, on Sakhalin Island, and in the northern part of the Korean Peninsula. The Soviet invasion of Manchuria created a haven for Chinese communist forces, who had been fighting both the Japanese and Chiang Kai-shek’s Nationalists, aiding the communists’ eventual triumph in 1948.
...}

Those were small unit actions taken AFTER the Japanese surrender. Usually done by troops embarked on cargo ships sailing up to undefended docks. Manchuria was another thing entirely, the Soviets took months to pre-position a huge armored army and plenty of lend-lease supplies and overran the remaining poorly armed and equipped IJA troops that hadn’t been worth pulling back to defend the home islands. The Soviets already occupied half of Sakhalin island, so they massed troops on the side they controlled. None of what the Soviets did were amphibious landings as the WAllies and Japanese understood the term.

 

[Dayton3]

Because nuclear weapons are illegal.
They are not a clean kill like a bullet.
They burn, poison, and kill slowly and painfully.

None of that makes nuclear weapons "illegal".

And although the information is limited thus far (thankfully) evidence suggests that most people killed by nuclear weapons die very quickly.

 

[Mushroom]

Please STFU.

Thank you

Typical of liars that can not refute facts and truth. Sorry if I burst your little nonsense bubble.