The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[Hollie]

Israel's "defined borders" are the 1949 armistice lines. The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.

I find it hilarious to watch you contradict your own cut and paste arguments.

How is it that Israel’s “defined borders” are the 1949 armistice lines when you claim that those armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.

What is a “defined border”?

 

[rylah]

Deflection.

And yet your definition of colonialism
fits Arabs and their exact goals
in the Levant and Africa.

What is not true?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Israelis have had democratic governments regime changes seven times by free elections.

Israel was established by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. The project was funded by foreign money.

Of the 37 people who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence, only one was born in country and he was the son of settlers.

One third of the people wanted a Jewish state. Two thirds did not. It is amazing what you can do at the point of a gun.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I find it hilarious to watch you contradict your own cut and paste arguments.

How is it that Israel’s “defined borders” are the 1949 armistice lines when you claim that those armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.

What is a “defined border”?

What is a “defined border”?

Something Israel does not have.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's true. Read the Armistice Agreements.

That not a single Palestinian signed? LOL!

 

[Hollie]

Something Israel does not have.

Nice dance.

It’s still funny watching you dismantle the argument you cut and paste.

 

[rylah]

Israel was established by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. The project was funded by foreign money.

Of the 37 people who signed Israel's Declaration of Independence, only one was born in country and he was the son of settlers.

One third of the people wanted a Jewish state. Two thirds did not. It is amazing what you can do at the point of a gun.

The Arab Congress of 1913 (also known as the "Arab National Congress,[1]" "First Palestinian Conference," the "First Arab Congress,[2]" and the "Arab-Syrian Congress[3]") met in a hall
of the French Société de Géographie on June 18–23 in Paris

Arab Congress of 1913 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[P F Tinmore]

Something Israel does not have.

I rest my case.

 

[rylah]

I rest my case.

If this is your case then you've just contradicted it -
admitting these are neither territorial nor political lines.

What remains intact are the international borders defined for Jewish re-constitution.

 

[Hollie]

I rest my case.

What case did you rest?

What you cut and pasted was: Israel's "defined borders" are the 1949 armistice lines. The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.

Did you not realize the contradiction?

Do you not read what you cut and paste?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN, and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Civil and Political Rights
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

It's true. Read the Armistice Agreements.

(COMMENT)

This is misinformation.

You are trying to imply that the Armistice is used as an authority for the borders.

That is totally incorrect. The Treaties recognize the international borders. And the Treaty can use any set of lines it wants.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

 

[Mac-7]

This thread was created in order to attempt to fix the significant derailment of another thread without having to delete posts.

The topic of this thread is one that comes up with regularity in IP, and is also a frequent derailer of active threads so it will now have a thread of it's own which will be pinned as a "stickie".

I apologize ahead of time for the bumpy discontinuous beginnig of this, but I think it will smooth out as discussion goes on.

The topic is: The history involving the creation of Israel, the British Mandate, and the applicable actions of the UN in that history.

What is your problem?

Israel is a fact and complaining about it now is just a waste of time

 

[rylah]

 

[Coyote]

What is your problem?

Israel is a fact and complaining about it now is just a waste of time

What are you talking about?

 

[rylah]

 

[rylah]

The Jews of MENA - From Dhimmitude to Independence

www.MiddleEastStudio.com
They were more than a million Jews. Between 1946 and 1974, this million is the number of forgotten fugitives, expelled from the Arab world, and whom history would like to forget, while the victims themselves have hidden their fate under a veil of modesty. The Jews have been living in Arabic lands for thousands of years and seemed to accept their fate forever, some even considering their survival as a miracle.

But 1948, the beginning of their exodus, was also the birth of the State of Israel. And, while the Arab armies were preparing to invade the young refugee-country, while the survivors of the Shoah were piling up in dangerous boats to fulfill at last the return to the land of their dreams and their prayers, a few hundred thousand Arabs from Palestine were getting ready to flee their home, convinced that they would return as winners and conquerors.

They were soon going to fill up the refugee camps built on their brothers’ land, and – because of their refusal to integrate – pass on their refugee status to the next generations. But the Jews did not get any special status like them. They had just returned to the Land of their fathers

And if they came from Aden, Yemen, Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Morocco, Tunisia or Libya, if they had lost everything and sometimes even relatives, memories and cemeteries, it is in Israel and the west that they were ready to rebuild their lives. Without ever asking for any compensation, any right to return, or even wishing that their story be told…

 

[rylah]

Mizrahi Heritage Month - Historic Crossroads | Damascus Bloodlibel

The Damascus affair of 1840 refers to the arrest of several notable members of the Jewish community in Damascus on the accusation of murdering Father Thomas, a Christian monk, and his servant for the purpose of using their blood to bake matzo, an anti-semitic accusation also known as the blood libel.

The accused were imprisoned and interrogated under torture by the Egyptian governor of Damascus, after which they confessed to the murder. In the aftermath of the incident, Christian and Muslim violence against the Jewish population increased.

Egyptian YouTuber Tamer Hawas Recounts 19th Century Damascus Blood Libel​

In a new and groundbreaking effort, the American Jewish community of 15,000 protested in six American cities on behalf of their Syrian brethren. "For the first time in American Jewish life, Jews organized themselves politically to help Diaspora Jewry in distress.". With this incident, they became involved in the politics of foreign policy, persuading President Van Buren to protest officially.

According to Hasia R. Diner, "For the Jews, the Damascus affair launched modern Jewish politics on an international scale, and for American Jews it represented their first effort at creating a distinctive
political agenda.

Read more -

The Power of a Lie: The History of the Blood Libel

Staff from Facing History & Ourselves discuss the history and ramifications of the blood libel.

www.facinghistory.org

 

[Sixties Fan]

In 1936, an Indian Muslim group sent a letter to the British Viceroy there accusing Great Britain of anti-Arab behavior in Palestine.

This Palestine Post article doesn't quote the original letter, but the response summarizes the wild accusations. More importantly, it refutes some lies that have remained even 85 years later.

First of all, although the letter doesn't say it explicitly, it broadly implies that Arab immigration to Palestine - non-existent before 1919 - had exploded after Jews arrived, with the Arab population increasing by over 50% in only 14 years - and most of those Arabs moved to be near Jews and the booming economy that the Jews brought.

Secondly, the response notes that rather than Jewish farming taking away from Arab farming yields, the size of Arab citrus fields more than doubled in four years. Again, this was probably due to improved farming techniques and increased opportunities for export.

Great Britain answering Muslim lies about Palestine in 1936

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

The anti-Israel crowd is going nuts over this tweet:



There have been hundreds of angry responses and quote tweets, most over-the-top but few actually addressing the issue.


No, the IHRA Working Definition of Antisemitism cannot in any way make it illegal to say the word "nakba."

Is the word "nakba" itself antisemitic?

Originally, "nakba" in the context of Palestine was coined by Syrian historian Constantin Zureiq to describe Israel's defeat of combined Arab armies. “The defeat of the Arabs in Palestine is not a small downfall – naksa … It is a catastrophe – nakba – in every sense of the word....Seven Arab countries declare war on Zionism in Palestine….Seven countries go to war to abolish the partition and to defeat Zionism, and quickly leave the battle after losing much of the land of Palestine – even the part that was given to the Arabs in the Partition Plan.”

Nothing about Palestinian Arabs or refugees. The word described the shame of Arab armies losing a war to the Jews after bragging about their inevitable great victory. Zureiq intended to have the Arab world take responsibility for it mistakes.

Certainly, the original meaning of "nakba" could not be considered antisemitic. It was a word of shame and of resolve, but not of hate. It is not tied to Israel or Jews at all.

Over time, though, the term changed. The PLO originally stayed away from using the word, as it wanted to give the impression of victory through revolution and not emphasizing shameful loss. Most Palestinians didn't latch onto that term for decades.

As time went on, though, and the world started to give brownie points to the oppressed, the PLO decided that this was a role it could enthusiastically take. The meaning of the word changed from "the shameful defeat of the Arab world in 1948" to "the disaster that happened to Palestinians in 1948 as a result of Israel becoming a state."

Yasir Arafat only declared "Nakba Day" in 1998 - specifically as a response to Israel's 50th anniversary, and specifically choosing the date to coincide with the anniversary of Israel's independence. Thousands of Palestinians fled their homes as early as December 1947, and some (although a minority) were indeed expelled during the war. Other dates could have been considered for Nakba Day, such as the anniversary of the Deir Yassin events. But Arafat chose to commemorate the date that Israel became a state, tying the Nakba to Israel's very existence.

In Arabic, "nakba" is often defined as the birth of Israel without mentioning anything else..

That is indeed antisemitic.

(full article online)

The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

Israel's "defined borders" are the 1949 armistice lines. The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. I find it hilarious to watch you contradict your own cut and paste arguments. How is it that Israel’s “defined borders” are the 1949 armistice lines...

www.usmessageboard.com