The Moonbats Of The 9th Circuit

[GotZoom]

IMO, the problem is with the extremists who would rather pull out their own fingernails than allow non-Christian religions/cultures to be presented to kids in a manner that places them on equal footing with Christianity.

Much as the problem is with the ACLU who would rather pull out their own fingernails than allow Christian religioin/culture to be presented in a manner that places them on equal footing with non-Christian teachings?

 

[MissileMan]

I'll only speak for myself. I teach in a public school, I teach comparative religions within ancient history. One must go over polytheism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Confucionism. I happen to teach them when dealing with, in order: Greece/Rome, Middle Ages, next two are Mesopotamia, India for two, and China. In each case, religion takes 1/2 to 1 lesson-45 minutes. It's only the basics: A large religious difference also appeared in the area of Mesopotamia, monotheism...Teach Judaism-Moses and Abraham-covenant and commandments-Torah. That's it. For Islam: 5 pillars and the founder was Mohammad, no god but 'Allah'-Koran. One of the three monotheistic. Buddhism: Seach for ending of pain; not so much a religion as a philosophy-just try to have 11 year olds get that distinction-karma & motorcycles, no not really! Hinduism: striving for the right life-Dharma. Confucisionism: do the right thing; live a good life; do not bring shame-Confucious and some of his sayings.

Catholocism is dealt with in religion-where it belongs. In social studies, Christianity is taught with the same basic information as the others, of course the students are more familiar with it, so it takes much less time.

BTW, atheism and agnosticism are dealt with in religion, not social studies.

It sounds like a great class.

 

[MissileMan]

You keep referring to some Christians as though they are "extremists" for speaking up about excessive religious teaching it when it involves THEIR kids. Hmm, that kinda reminds me of the "extremist" minority parents who complained about Christian prayer in schools and got it removed.

IMO it is hypocritical liberals/whatever like you - who obviously also exist within the 9th Circuit - who apply two different standards to religious teachings within the schools. You think it's OK for the teacher to push Islam on students for 3 weeks running just because it is "packaged" differently.

Do you honestly believe the teacher was trying to convert kids to Islam? I'll bet you a six-pack the teacher was a Christian.

What wasn't presented in the article is whether the other religions and cultures were covered in a similar manner in this same class. If they only did this for Islam and ME culture, then it wasn't right. On the other hand, if the objective is to introduce kids to different cultures, it wouldn't make any sense to devote class time to introduce them to their own culture, they are living it.

 

[MissileMan]

Much as the problem is with the ACLU who would rather pull out their own fingernails than allow Christian religioin/culture to be presented in a manner that places them on equal footing with non-Christian teachings?

I disagree. As I said, IMO, it's the extreme Christians who are keeping the ACLU in business.

 

[Hobbit]

I disagree. As I said, IMO, it's the extreme Christians who are keeping the ACLU in business.

It's the other way around. I've never seen the Christians strike first in an ACLU battle. It's always them suing somebody to take a Christian symbol off something.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Do you honestly believe the teacher was trying to convert kids to Islam? I'll bet you a six-pack the teacher was a Christian.

What wasn't presented in the article is whether the other religions and cultures were covered in a similar manner in this same class. If they only did this for Islam and ME culture, then it wasn't right. On the other hand, if the objective is to introduce kids to different cultures, it wouldn't make any sense to devote class time to introduce them to their own culture, they are living it.

Whether or not the teacher was Christian or not (lots of idiotic liberal-programmed teachers around) or whether they were trying to convert is not relevant at this point. We are discussing the basic right of the teacher to be TEACHING RELIGION in a public school. I thought you believed in separation of church and state? Good Lord man, the ACLU sued a teacher just for having his own personal Bible sitting on his desk which they said would adversely "influence" the children. (he was such an "extremist"!) They also sued a teacher for wearing a cross around her neck for the same reason. (another "extremist"!) But for some reason, the Left is JUST FINE with this extensive 3 week course about Islam in which the children are reading the Koran, saying Muslim prayers, etc.

I'm glad you can at least recognize it was not right if they were not teaching about other religions. A step toward sanity on your part. Given the fact that the parents were up in arms, I would say that other religions were probably NOT represented equally. Also I cannot see other religions being given a full 3 weeks as well since this would be way too time-consuming.

Your other form of argument is to claim that this method of TEACHING RELIGION is just a form of "CULTURAL" instruction. This is just a sneaky form of repackaging the actual end result which is actually teaching about a religion. You can't deny that. If such "cultural" instruction is OK then why can't the Christian religion just be taught in the schools as a "cultural" class? I am sure that lots of parents would love for schools to teach extensively about the Christian religion, its history, its biblical teachings, etc. However, you multiculturalists are against such Christian "cultural" instruction for any reason you can think up such as the weak one you gave, not to mention that you shout separation of church and state. The only "cultures" that you people deem important enough to be taught are minority "cultures". In case you didn't know, multiculturalism is a technique of the Far Left to create the balkanization of America...essentially the breaking-down of the dominant Christian culture of America into many smaller groups which will result in a weakening of our country.

 

[Annie]

Do you honestly believe the teacher was trying to convert kids to Islam? I'll bet you a six-pack the teacher was a Christian.

What wasn't presented in the article is whether the other religions and cultures were covered in a similar manner in this same class. If they only did this for Islam and ME culture, then it wasn't right. On the other hand, if the objective is to introduce kids to different cultures, it wouldn't make any sense to devote class time to introduce them to their own culture, they are living it.

I'll bet you an expensive bubbling wine that she was a secularlist at best, more likely agnostic or atheistic. A Christian, even one as mild as myself, while wanting to make the kids 'aware' of something foreign to them, would not have gone so overboard. Which. was. done.

 

[MissileMan]

Whether or not the teacher was Christian or not (lots of idiotic liberal-programmed teachers around) or whether they were trying to convert is not relevant at this point.

I disagree, that is the significant point. It's a prime example of what I said earlier...extreme Christians are unwilling to have anything non-Christian given any validity in any forum.

I'm glad you can at least recognize it was not right if they were not teaching about other religions. A step toward sanity on your part. Given the fact that the parents were up in arms, I would say that other religions were probably NOT represented equally. Also I cannot see other religions being given a full 3 weeks as well since this would be way too time-consuming.

Your other form of argument is to claim that this method of TEACHING RELIGION is just a form of "CULTURAL" instruction. This is just a sneaky form of repackaging the actual end result which is actually teaching about a religion. You can't deny that. If such "cultural" instruction is OK then why can't the Christian religion just be taught in the schools as a "cultural" class? I am sure that lots of parents would love for schools to teach extensively about the Christian religion, its history, its biblical teachings, etc. However, you multiculturalists are against such Christian "cultural" instruction for any reason you can think up such as the weak one you gave, not to mention that you shout separation of church and state. The only "cultures" that you people deem important enough to be taught are minority "cultures". In case you didn't know, multiculturalism is a technique of the Far Left to create the balkanization of America...essentially the breaking-down of the dominant Christian culture of America into many smaller groups which will result in a weakening of our country.

First, Christianity isn't a culture, it's a religion. A class to introduce kids to any foreign culture, especially a culture whose religion is a cornerstone, would require some information about said religion. The Christian children here in the U.S. are living in the Christian American culture, at least the majority are...what possible need is there for classroom instruction in it? It would be like teaching the fundamentals of football to a professional football team.

 

[Annie]

I disagree, that is the significant point. It's a prime example of what I said earlier...extreme Christians are unwilling to have anything non-Christian given any validity in any forum.



First, Christianity isn't a culture, it's a religion. A class to introduce kids to any foreign culture, especially a culture whose religion is a cornerstone, would require some information about said religion. The Christian children here in the U.S. are living in the Christian American culture, at least the majority are...what possible need is there for classroom instruction in it? It would be like teaching the fundamentals of football to a professional football team.

Umm, just seems like you are going in circles here, secularlists are even more unwilling to allow anything 'Christian' to be even suggested. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just a fact.

Islam too is a religion, not a culture. One does not need to pretend to 'live' a culture or religion in order to learn the basic beliefs underlying them. Deeper appreciation of course, would involve more, but that isn't in any way a part of middle or even high school curriculum.

 

[MissileMan]

Umm, just seems like you are going in circles here, secularlists are even more unwilling to allow anything 'Christian' to be even suggested. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just a fact.

Islam too is a religion, not a culture. One does not need to pretend to 'live' a culture or religion in order to learn the basic beliefs underlying them. Deeper appreciation of course, would involve more, but that isn't in any way a part of middle or even high school curriculum.

I can't speak for all secularists, only myself. I AM in favor of a comparible religion course being taught in schools...probably in the 8th-10th grade range. Until such classes are offered, I see no harm in introducing kids to other cultures in their Social Studies classes. It sounds like maybe this teacher went too far. I can't say for sure, because I wasn't there, and there was no additional info given on what was covered how in the rest of the school year. If the kids had fun and actually learned something, I don't see a down side.

 

[Annie]

I can't speak for all secularists, only myself. I AM in favor of a comparible religion course being taught in schools...probably in the 8th-10th grade range. Until such classes are offered, I see no harm in introducing kids to other cultures in their Social Studies classes. It sounds like maybe this teacher went too far. I can't say for sure, because I wasn't there, and there was no additional info given on what was covered how in the rest of the school year. If the kids had fun and actually learned something, I don't see a down side.

The downside is indoctrination. Don't you understand, it doesn't matter what the religion is? Islam is not a culture, it's a religion.

 

[MissileMan]

The downside is indoctrination. Don't you understand, it doesn't matter what the religion is? Islam is not a culture, it's a religion.

I understand your point, but how could you teach about the Middle-Eastern culture without bringing up Islam? Their religion is their culture, or very near so.

 

[Annie]

I understand your point, but how could you teach about the Middle-Eastern culture without bringing up Islam? Their religion is their culture, or very near so.

The focus was NOT the middle east, but rather Islam. Read the original article again. I've made very clear that I agree with teaching comparative religions, but see very few teachers in Middle School competent to do so. With that said, teaching cultures in middle schools, tying the 'dominant religions' of those areas, is certainly required. Difference is, you are teaching the essential meanings of culture: surplus, main industries, social order, AND religion into a greater whole. The religion is an offshoot of the essential, not a main goal. In this case, there was some other agenda.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

The focus was NOT the middle east, but rather Islam. Read the original article again. I've made very clear that I agree with teaching comparative religions, but see very few teachers in Middle School competent to do so. With that said, teaching cultures in middle schools, tying the 'dominant religions' of those areas, is certainly required. Difference is, you are teaching the essential meanings of culture: surplus, main industries, social order, AND religion into a greater whole. The religion is an offshoot of the essential, not a main goal. In this case, there was some other agenda.

Excellent points and replies Kathianne.

I just can't understand why MM cannot recognize the difference between what is going on in the schools.

On one hand you have a teacher teaching Islam quite extensively for 3 weeks running and liberals think that is totally acceptable...oh gee, perhaps just a little excessive...but the parents are acting like "extremist Christians" in their protest against such a culturally broadening exercise...

On the other hand you have the liberals and the ACLU screaming about a teacher who just brings his own personal Bible to school to read quietly only by himself in his free time moments. They haul him into court and sue him for his "extremist" actions which are "breaking the wall of separation between church and state".

 

[Annie]

Excellent points and replies Kathianne.

I just can't understand why MM cannot recognize the difference between what is going on in the schools.

On one hand you have a teacher teaching Islam quite extensively for 3 weeks running and liberals think that is totally acceptable...oh gee, perhaps just a little excessive...but the parents are acting like "extremist Christians" in their protest against such a culturally broadening exercise...

On the other hand you have the liberals and the ACLU screaming about a teacher who just brings his own personal Bible to school to read quietly only by himself in his free time moments. They haul him into court and sue him for his "extremist" actions which are "breaking the wall of separation between church and state".

Thanks! I'm more concerned about the whole idea that she devoted 3 weeks to such an immersion methodology. I would be really curious to see her goals and objectives on the daily plan. 3 weeks is nearly 1/2 a grading period.

I'm also wondering what her background beliefs are. Is she Muslim? If not, where did she have enough knowledge to go so 'deeply' into this with 12/13 year olds? If she is Muslim, bigger problem than her just being foolish.

 

[archangel]

simply by offering a elective class in "Comparative Religions" in Middle as well as High School...to interject just one belief such as Islam into a history class is not only hypocricy...but downright discrimination!

 

[007]

Excellent points and replies Kathianne.

I just can't understand why MM cannot recognize the difference between what is going on in the schools.

I think he does understand S.E.. But getting a liberal to ADMIT something is wrong with their reasoning is virtually impossible. They will spew psycho-babble back at you until pigs fly, just to avoid saying "yeah, that was wrong".

 

[MissileMan]

I think he does understand S.E.. But getting a liberal to ADMIT something is wrong with their reasoning is virtually impossible. They will spew psycho-babble back at you until pigs fly, just to avoid saying "yeah, that was wrong".

Why is it that anyone who has a different take than yours on even a single issue is automatically a liberal. I'm no more a liberal than you are a Suzuki rider.

 

[Annie]

Why is it that anyone who has a different take than yours on even a single issue is automatically a liberal. I'm no more a liberal than you are a Suzuki rider.

I haven't called you a liberal or a Suzuki rider! What about my last post though? I don't think either of us need to know all the details, (though i sure would love to see those lesson plans!), to know that something was very amiss here.

 

[MissileMan]

I haven't called you a liberal or a Suzuki rider! What about my last post though? I don't think either of us need to know all the details, (though i sure would love to see those lesson plans!), to know that something was very amiss here.

There are several details I would like to know. For instance, what was the objective listed on the lesson plan? What kind of time was devoted to other cultures throughout the school year and how was it presented? Where did this instructional guide come from? What is the background of this teacher? Was this particular lesson plan approved by the local school board? I would like to know those things before I would say something's amiss.

I made the assumption that it was more than likely innocent because I believe any damning details like the teacher was Muslim, or had used a non-approved lesson plan in the past would have been included in the original article.