The Issue Of The Land

[MJB12741]

We hear from today's Palestinians that "Israel is stealing (or occupying) Palestinian land."
Is that true? Let us start at the beginning of human life on the land in question. The earliest documented inhabitants were the Natufians, mixed ethnic groups from around 12,500 to 9500 BCE. Since then we hear of Akkadians, Assyrians, Caananites, Phoenicians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Turks, British etc. all of which ruled the land at any given period of time.

Fact is but with one exception, this land is stolen land by every previous group including todays so called "Palestinians." The only exception to the land not being stolen is modern day Israel, established by a vote of the United Nations on resolution 181.

Interesting article below. Live & learn.

NATUFIANS (12,500-9500 B.C.): SETTLEMENTS, PROTO-AGRICULTURE, ARCHAEOLOGY | Facts and Details

factsanddetails.com

 

[Thunk]

We hear from today's Palestinians that "Israel is stealing (or occupying) Palestinian land."
Is that true?

All you need to do is look at a map to see the truth.

That tiny little fly speck on the map that you can barely see? Yup...that's Israel. They can't even fit the word "Israel" on the map inside the borders of Israel. (and it ain't like it's a long name).

Right next to massive egypt and many other large countries.

Plenty of "land" to go around in that region...which means it has nothing to do with "land".

 

[MartyNYC]

Prominent Muslim dignitary Yusuf Diya al-Khalidi, 1899, member of the Ottoman Empire parliament…

 

[MartyNYC]

 

[MartyNYC]

 

[MJB12741]

It is important to remember -----

While the State of Israel was established on 15 May 1948 and admitted to the United Nations, a Palestinian State was not established. The remaining territories of pre-1948 land, the West Bank - including East Jerusalem- and Gaza Strip, were administered from 1948 till 1967 by Jordan and Egypt, respectively.

 

[Kruska]

View attachment 785136

Applies to e.g. Germany just as well. Some called him Odin others Wotan - since according to "believers" there is only one God - it's obviously the same guy. And somehow this guy couldn't give a shit about the kingdom of Israel being wiped out - it's people being dispersed, persecuted and being faced with the holocaust.

Therefore logic and common sense dictates that God must be an anti Semite. Who undoubtedly did not want Jews/Hebrews/Israelite to remain there, but allowed/favored others to take over.
God also did not reinstate Jews to rule parts of Palestine - but the UN.

 

[MartyNYC]

Applies to e.g. Germany just as well. Some called him Odin others Wotan - since according to "believers" there is only one God - it's obviously the same guy. And somehow this guy couldn't give a shit about the kingdom of Israel being wiped out - it's people being dispersed, persecuted and being faced with the holocaust.

Therefore logic and common sense dictates that God must be an anti Semite. Who undoubtedly did not want Jews/Hebrews/Israelite to remain there, but allowed/favored others to take over.
God also did not reinstate Jews to rule parts of Palestine - but the UN.

 

[Kruska]

Don't get me wrong - for my part this isn't about Jews or antisemitism - but religious books as such.

The old testimony compiled by Jews aka Israelite's is composed of written (lost) and verbally communicated accounts that were undoubtedly contributed by diverse non Jewish/Israelite cultures spanning for thousands of years before the term Israelite ever appeared.
Israelite's are not recorded by other civilizations to be the inventors of monotheism, e.g. Egyptian dynasties already had brought up that concept around 500-1000 years before the old testament or other Jewish literature came up with this, or rather Israelite's claiming all this for themselves. Including to be Gods chosen ones.

ALL these Israeli claims are centered and anchored around a single book - written by themselves - respectively their ancestors.

So for whatever religion to claim - this is the only true book and has to be, since it was written by us - and therefore to lay any historic claims is simply ridiculous - one could also state - outrageous.

Also this Palestinian issue, has absolutely nothing to do with whatever findings someone compiled in regards to Arab agriculture of 1939.

There is enough abundant archeological evidence that the e.g. Canaanites - Jericho and multiple other sites, had build an advanced civilization (incl. irrigation systems) 2000 years and more before Israelite's arrived and ransacked the place in around 1200BC.

 

[MartyNYC]

Don't get me wrong - for my part this isn't about Jews or antisemitism - but religious books as such.

The old testimony compiled by Jews aka Israelite's is composed of written (lost) and verbally communicated accounts that were undoubtedly contributed by diverse non Jewish/Israelite cultures spanning for thousands of years before the term Israelite ever appeared.
Israelite's are not recorded by other civilizations to be the inventors of monotheism, e.g. Egyptian dynasties already had brought up that concept around 500-1000 years before the old testament or other Jewish literature came up with this, or rather Israelite's claiming all this for themselves. Including to be Gods chosen ones.

ALL these Israeli claims are centered and anchored around a single book - written by themselves - respectively their ancestors.

So for whatever religion to claim - this is the only true book and has to be, since it was written by us - and therefore to lay any historic claims is simply ridiculous - one could also state - outrageous.

Also this Palestinian issue, has absolutely nothing to do with whatever findings someone compiled in regards to Arab agriculture of 1939.

There is enough abundant archeological evidence that the e.g. Canaanites - Jericho and multiple other sites, had build an advanced civilization (incl. irrigation systems) 2000 years and more before Israelite's arrived and ransacked the place in around 1200BC.

Renowned Egyptologist Donald Redford, author, “Akhenaten Heretic King”: “There is little evidence to support the notion that Akhenaten was a progenitor of the full-blown monotheism that we find in the Bible.

The Monotheism of Akhenaten - Bible Odyssey

 

[MartyNYC]

Don't get me wrong - for my part this isn't about Jews or antisemitism - but religious books as such.

The old testimony compiled by Jews aka Israelite's is composed of written (lost) and verbally communicated accounts that were undoubtedly contributed by diverse non Jewish/Israelite cultures spanning for thousands of years before the term Israelite ever appeared.
Israelite's are not recorded by other civilizations to be the inventors of monotheism, e.g. Egyptian dynasties already had brought up that concept around 500-1000 years before the old testament or other Jewish literature came up with this, or rather Israelite's claiming all this for themselves. Including to be Gods chosen ones.

ALL these Israeli claims are centered and anchored around a single book - written by themselves - respectively their ancestors.

So for whatever religion to claim - this is the only true book and has to be, since it was written by us - and therefore to lay any historic claims is simply ridiculous - one could also state - outrageous.

Also this Palestinian issue, has absolutely nothing to do with whatever findings someone compiled in regards to Arab agriculture of 1939.

There is enough abundant archeological evidence that the e.g. Canaanites - Jericho and multiple other sites, had build an advanced civilization (incl. irrigation systems) 2000 years and more before Israelite's arrived and ransacked the place in around 1200BC.

Bernard Lewis, “Dean of Middle East historians”:

“The idea of monotheism was not entirely new. It appears, for example, in the hymns of Akhenaton, pharaoh of Egypt in the fourteenth century bce. But such ideas were sporadic and isolated, and their impact was temporary and local. The first to make ethical monotheism an essential part of their religion were the Jews, and the evolution of their beliefs from a primitive tribal cult to a universal ethical monotheism is reflected in the successive books of the Hebrew Bible. The same books reflect the growing Jewish awareness of how this belief isolated them among their idol- worshipping and polytheistic neighbours. In modern times, those who believe themselves to be in unique possession of the truth are easily convinced that the discovery of this truth was their achievement. For a devout people in ancient times, such a conviction would have been impossibly presumptuous. Confronted with the extraordinary fact of their uniqueness in knowing the truth about one God, the ancient Jews, unable even to consider the idea that they had chosen God, adopted the more humble belief that God had chosen them.”

 

[MartyNYC]

Don't get me wrong - for my part this isn't about Jews or antisemitism - but religious books as such.

The old testimony compiled by Jews aka Israelite's is composed of written (lost) and verbally communicated accounts that were undoubtedly contributed by diverse non Jewish/Israelite cultures spanning for thousands of years before the term Israelite ever appeared.
Israelite's are not recorded by other civilizations to be the inventors of monotheism, e.g. Egyptian dynasties already had brought up that concept around 500-1000 years before the old testament or other Jewish literature came up with this, or rather Israelite's claiming all this for themselves. Including to be Gods chosen ones.

ALL these Israeli claims are centered and anchored around a single book - written by themselves - respectively their ancestors.

So for whatever religion to claim - this is the only true book and has to be, since it was written by us - and therefore to lay any historic claims is simply ridiculous - one could also state - outrageous.

Also this Palestinian issue, has absolutely nothing to do with whatever findings someone compiled in regards to Arab agriculture of 1939.

There is enough abundant archeological evidence that the e.g. Canaanites - Jericho and multiple other sites, had build an advanced civilization (incl. irrigation systems) 2000 years and more before Israelite's arrived and ransacked the place in around 1200BC.

Israelites were Canaanites, among the earliest civilizations in Canaan, later Israel. Now, you know.

 

[MartyNYC]

Don't get me wrong - for my part this isn't about Jews or antisemitism - but religious books as such.

The old testimony compiled by Jews aka Israelite's is composed of written (lost) and verbally communicated accounts that were undoubtedly contributed by diverse non Jewish/Israelite cultures spanning for thousands of years before the term Israelite ever appeared.
Israelite's are not recorded by other civilizations to be the inventors of monotheism, e.g. Egyptian dynasties already had brought up that concept around 500-1000 years before the old testament or other Jewish literature came up with this, or rather Israelite's claiming all this for themselves. Including to be Gods chosen ones.

ALL these Israeli claims are centered and anchored around a single book - written by themselves - respectively their ancestors.

So for whatever religion to claim - this is the only true book and has to be, since it was written by us - and therefore to lay any historic claims is simply ridiculous - one could also state - outrageous.

Also this Palestinian issue, has absolutely nothing to do with whatever findings someone compiled in regards to Arab agriculture of 1939.

There is enough abundant archeological evidence that the e.g. Canaanites - Jericho and multiple other sites, had build an advanced civilization (incl. irrigation systems) 2000 years and more before Israelite's arrived and ransacked the place in around 1200BC.

League of Nations…

The Palestine Mandate​

The Council of the League of Nations:​

“Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them;

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people“

“Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country”

 

[Kruska]

“Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country”

No one who knows about the Middle East and it's history, would refute the "historical connection" of the Jewish people with Palestine.
What is refuted is the claim by Jews based upon an own written book - that it is their original homeland - given by God

 

[MartyNYC]

No one who knows about the Middle East and it's history, would refute the "historical connection" of the Jewish people with Palestine.
What is refuted is the claim by Jews based upon an own written book - that it is their original homeland - given by God

The Bible decrees Israel to Jews. Even the Koran decrees Israel to Jews.

 

[P F Tinmore]

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.

In a broader international context, the “Nationality law… showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship.”...Palestinian nationality, like any other nationality, constitutes the formula by which a certain group of individuals are being legally connected and enabled to form the people element of the state.

The status of Palestine and the nationality of its inhabitants were finally settled by the Treaty of Lausanne from the perspective of public international law. In a report submitted to the League of Nations, the British government pointed out: “The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in Aug., 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine.”123 And, thereafter, “Palestine could, at last, obtain a separate nationality.”124

Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”

The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”

 

[MartyNYC]

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.

In a broader international context, the “Nationality law… showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship.”...Palestinian nationality, like any other nationality, constitutes the formula by which a certain group of individuals are being legally connected and enabled to form the people element of the state.

The status of Palestine and the nationality of its inhabitants were finally settled by the Treaty of Lausanne from the perspective of public international law. In a report submitted to the League of Nations, the British government pointed out: “The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in Aug., 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine.”123 And, thereafter, “Palestine could, at last, obtain a separate nationality.”124

Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

League of Nations in the early 20th century authorized the Jewish National Home in “Palestine”. No national home for “palestinians“ as no such identity existed until the 1960s. First “palestinian“ charter was issued in 1964, reissued in 1968.

Abdul Ghani Salameh: There was nothing called a palestinian people

 

[Kruska]

Renowned Egyptologist Donald Redford, author, “Akhenaten Heretic King”: “There is little evidence to support the notion that Akhenaten was a progenitor of the full-blown monotheism that we find in the Bible.

Okay that is one mans opinion, off whom I also wouldn't know as to what he defines to be a "full blown monotheism".

There is abundant archeological evidence - that Akhenaten did follow the believe of there being just one God. And most likely he wasn't the first Egyptian.

It is however of notice that this Moses story - reflects occurrences in view of natural disasters and diseases during his reign- almost all his children got wiped out by pestilence. His military disaster with the Hittites had a consequential effect onto his remaining military - meaning he was not able to stop or prevent an uprising - such as his own Egyptian people being discontent with the overall situation - fear of an reactionary priesthood wanting to get rid of Monotheism. That the entire population did not just consist of Egyptians but many of those conquered territories or foreign war-factions is also known. However no Egyptian text at the time or before mentions Israelite's.

Moses according to Egyptian text's was an Egyptian who's family was into temple-service.

My thesis: it was Egyptians - that grew discontent with the idea of monotheism being abolished - and decided to leave for a fertile place that was well know due to hundreds of years of war with the Hittites - and far enough away from Egypt - with the Hittites offering a natural buffer-zone towards a then weakened Egyptian military. And this area (Canaan) was the only available place they could go to - at around 1340 BC, since anything else was under Egyptian, Assyrian or Hittite control.
After they ransacked the place the term Israel appears around 120 years later in Egypt - not as a state but people living in former Canaanite territory. And this Bible or whatever was started upon by people who called themselves Israelite, from a couple of hundred years later - in order to distinguish themselves as monotheists from those surrounding them and to ultimately lay claim onto a foreign territory.

This Egyptian text translates into:
The (foreign) chieftains lie prostrate, saying “Peace.” Not one lifts his head among the Nine Bows. Libya is captured, while Hatti is pacified. Canaan is plundered, Ashkelon (Canaanite) is carried off, and Gezer (Canaanite) is captured. Yenoam (also Canaanite) is made into non-existence; Israel is wasted, its seed is not; and Hurru (Palestinian Gaza) is become a widow because of Egypt. All lands united themselves in peace. Those who went about are subdued by the king of Upper and Lower Egypt … Merneptah

So after they ransacked Canaan - they were in turn obviously defeated by others (most likely by Egypt) who did not tolerate a new state by outsiders. Those who survived and remained, came up with this Bible story to enhance a future generation to establish themselves as a united, unique and Godly chosen people with an everlasting territorial claim - therefore most likely the biggest and sophisticated con story in all of human mankind.

And therefore I couldn't care less as to what this selfwritten Bible says or claims - or excerpts from the Bible that you post.

 

[MartyNYC]

Okay that is one mans opinion, off whom I also wouldn't know as to what he defines to be a "full blown monotheism".

There is abundant archeological evidence - that Akhenaten did follow the believe of there being just one God. And most likely he wasn't the first Egyptian.

It is however of notice that this Moses story - reflects occurrences in view of natural disasters and diseases during his reign- almost all his children got wiped out by pestilence. His military disaster with the Hittites had a consequential effect onto his remaining military - meaning he was not able to stop or prevent an uprising - such as his own Egyptian people being discontent with the overall situation - fear of an reactionary priesthood wanting to get rid of Monotheism. That the entire population did not just consist of Egyptians but many of those conquered territories or foreign war-factions is also known. However no Egyptian text at the time or before mentions Israelite's.

Moses according to Egyptian text's was an Egyptian who's family was into temple-service.

My thesis: it was Egyptians - that grew discontent with the idea of monotheism being abolished - and decided to leave for a fertile place that was well know due to hundreds of years of war with the Hittites - and far enough away from Egypt - with the Hittites offering a natural buffer-zone towards a then weakened Egyptian military. And this area (Canaan) was the only available place they could go to - at around 1340 BC, since anything else was under Egyptian, Assyrian or Hittite control.
After they ransacked the place the term Israel appears around 120 years later in Egypt - not as a state but people living in former Canaanite territory. And this Bible or whatever was started upon by people who called themselves Israelite, from a couple of hundred years later - in order to distinguish themselves as monotheists from those surrounding them and to ultimately lay claim onto a foreign territory.

This Egyptian text translates into:
The (foreign) chieftains lie prostrate, saying “Peace.” Not one lifts his head among the Nine Bows. Libya is captured, while Hatti is pacified. Canaan is plundered, Ashkelon (Canaanite) is carried off, and Gezer (Canaanite) is captured. Yenoam (also Canaanite) is made into non-existence; Israel is wasted, its seed is not; and Hurru (Palestinian Gaza) is become a widow because of Egypt. All lands united themselves in peace. Those who went about are subdued by the king of Upper and Lower Egypt … Merneptah

So after they ransacked Canaan - they were in turn obviously defeated by others (most likely by Egypt) who did not tolerate a new state by outsiders. Those who survived and remained, came up with this Bible story to enhance a future generation to establish themselves as a united, unique and Godly chosen people with an everlasting territorial claim - therefore most likely the biggest and sophisticated con story in all of human mankind.

And therefore I couldn't care less as to what this selfwritten Bible says or claims - or excerpts from the Bible that you post.

Who knows more about ancient Egypt, you or Donald Redford?

 

[MartyNYC]

Okay that is one mans opinion, off whom I also wouldn't know as to what he defines to be a "full blown monotheism".

There is abundant archeological evidence - that Akhenaten did follow the believe of there being just one God. And most likely he wasn't the first Egyptian.

It is however of notice that this Moses story - reflects occurrences in view of natural disasters and diseases during his reign- almost all his children got wiped out by pestilence. His military disaster with the Hittites had a consequential effect onto his remaining military - meaning he was not able to stop or prevent an uprising - such as his own Egyptian people being discontent with the overall situation - fear of an reactionary priesthood wanting to get rid of Monotheism. That the entire population did not just consist of Egyptians but many of those conquered territories or foreign war-factions is also known. However no Egyptian text at the time or before mentions Israelite's.

Moses according to Egyptian text's was an Egyptian who's family was into temple-service.

My thesis: it was Egyptians - that grew discontent with the idea of monotheism being abolished - and decided to leave for a fertile place that was well know due to hundreds of years of war with the Hittites - and far enough away from Egypt - with the Hittites offering a natural buffer-zone towards a then weakened Egyptian military. And this area (Canaan) was the only available place they could go to - at around 1340 BC, since anything else was under Egyptian, Assyrian or Hittite control.
After they ransacked the place the term Israel appears around 120 years later in Egypt - not as a state but people living in former Canaanite territory. And this Bible or whatever was started upon by people who called themselves Israelite, from a couple of hundred years later - in order to distinguish themselves as monotheists from those surrounding them and to ultimately lay claim onto a foreign territory.

This Egyptian text translates into:
The (foreign) chieftains lie prostrate, saying “Peace.” Not one lifts his head among the Nine Bows. Libya is captured, while Hatti is pacified. Canaan is plundered, Ashkelon (Canaanite) is carried off, and Gezer (Canaanite) is captured. Yenoam (also Canaanite) is made into non-existence; Israel is wasted, its seed is not; and Hurru (Palestinian Gaza) is become a widow because of Egypt. All lands united themselves in peace. Those who went about are subdued by the king of Upper and Lower Egypt … Merneptah

So after they ransacked Canaan - they were in turn obviously defeated by others (most likely by Egypt) who did not tolerate a new state by outsiders. Those who survived and remained, came up with this Bible story to enhance a future generation to establish themselves as a united, unique and Godly chosen people with an everlasting territorial claim - therefore most likely the biggest and sophisticated con story in all of human mankind.

And therefore I couldn't care less as to what this selfwritten Bible says or claims - or excerpts from the Bible that you post.

You evidently have a learning disability. I informed you that Israelites were Canaanites.