The Israeli Criminals Bombed A Funeral Today.

[Shusha]

My ancestors were from various places in Europe long ago too. Some of them were Polish and left because of Nazis. Some were Scottish and left because of British imperialism. It doesn't mean I can simply go there and set up shop and call myself citizen because my ancestors had roots there.

Except actually you can. You can claim citizenship in Poland and Scotland (UK) based on ancestry. But this isn't relevant to the conversation. You are conflating individual rights with collective rights. We are not discussing the rights of individuals, but the rights of collectives, specifically of peoples who have developed a national identity attached to a specific homeland.

You dont rightfully get to get to have whole states created for you because you had ancestors who lived there many hundreds or thousands of years ago.

The Jewish right to self-determination and sovereignty is identical to anyone else's claim and right to self-determination and sovereignty. The Jewish people are THE indigenous peoples of that land. Or ONE of the indigenous peoples, if you'd rather. The Jewish people have been living continuously in that land for thousands of years. (And even if you want to ridiculously argue that the Jewish people were entirely ethnically cleansed from the land, that does not extinguish their rights to it.)

If the claim to a State is not self-determination of a peoples with a national identity, what do you think it is? Your definition needs to apply to ALL peoples equally.

 

[Shusha]

How is someone from Kiev indigenous to Israel? don't be ridiculous, thats like saying i am indigenous to Normandy because some of my family ancestors arrived here in 1066 with William the Conqueror.

Where do you think you are indigenous to and why?

 

[Shusha]

Well they first started resisting the 1982 invasion of their Country Lebanon, and they have resisted Israeli aggression ever since.

You didn't answer my question. What is Hezbollah resisting? Guarding one's borders (as in repelling an "invasion") is simply that. Responding to "aggression" is merely self-defense. Neither of these is "resistance". What is Hezbollah resisting?

 

[Deadstick]

You didn't answer my question. What is Hezbollah resisting? Guarding one's borders (as in repelling an "invasion") is simply that. Responding to "aggression" is merely self-defense. Neither of these is "resistance". What is Hezbollah resisting?

I told you,are you thick? Hezbollah didn't exist before the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982, and Israel has never stopped attacking Lebanon to this day.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I told you,are you thick? Hezbollah didn't exist before the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982, and Israel has never stopped attacking Lebanon to this day.

the REALITY is that the PLO was attacking Isreal from Lebanon and the Lebanese Government did nothing about it, thus the Israeli's did.

 

[Shusha]

I told you,are you thick? Hezbollah didn't exist before the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982, and Israel has never stopped attacking Lebanon to this day.

So, Hezbollah is conducting acts of self-defense. Not resistance.

 

[Shusha]

BothWings

Sure, you "disagree", but can't articulate an explanation?

 

[Deadstick]

My ancestors were from various places in Europe long ago too. Some of them were Polish and left because of Nazis. Some were Scottish and left because of British imperialism. It doesn't mean I can simply go there and set up shop and call myself citizen because my ancestors had roots there. Should black people who had ancestors who were slaves here in the U.S. simply have been allowed to colonize Liberia? This was vehemently resisted by indigenous people already living in Liberia who were ever displaced. It was a forced colonization backed by U.S. military might. Pure horse shit. Same as the creation of the state of Israel backed by the U.S. and Britain. You dont rightfully get to get to have whole states created for you because you had ancestors who lived there many hundreds or thousands of years ago. The Zionists won the favor of those supporting military powers because they were willing to help the West exploit the East for another profiteering Crusade. And what a joint venture in globalist capitalism it has become. Israel is the navel of the New World Order. And to me that has absolutely nothing to do with religion or genetics so don't cry "racist". It doesn't apply.

The exact point many of us have made for a long time, it's preposterous and they know it, just an excuse to plunder and steal.

 

[Deadstick]

So, Hezbollah is conducting acts of self-defense. Not resistance.

Of course they are, there was a Ramadan massacre in Lebanon the other day when Israel carried out air strikes on several Lebanese towns

Except actually you can. You can claim citizenship in Poland and Scotland (UK) based on ancestry. But this isn't relevant to the conversation. You are conflating individual rights with collective rights. We are not discussing the rights of individuals, but the rights of collectives, specifically of peoples who have developed a national identity attached to a specific homeland.

The Jewish right to self-determination and sovereignty is identical to anyone else's claim and right to self-determination and sovereignty. The Jewish people are THE indigenous peoples of that land. Or ONE of the indigenous peoples, if you'd rather. The Jewish people have been living continuously in that land for thousands of years. (And even if you want to ridiculously argue that the Jewish people were entirely ethnically cleansed from the land, that does not extinguish their rights to it.)

If the claim to a State is not self-determination of a peoples with a national identity, what do you think it is? Your definition needs to apply to ALL peoples equally.

But bothwings is not allowed to turn up in Warsaw or Glasgow armed to the teeth and take a house and land that belongs to people already living there like this bastard in the video who came from New York,
you are talking Bollocks!

 

[Shusha]

Of course they are, there was a Ramadan massacre in Lebanon the other day when Israel carried out air strikes on several Lebanese towns

This only works if you deny that Hezbollah conducted attacks against Israel, including on October 8, and if you ignore that Hezbollah is supposed to be disarmed according to the ceasefire agreement.

 

[Deadstick]

This only works if you deny that Hezbollah conducted attacks against Israel, including on October 8, and if you ignore that Hezbollah is supposed to be disarmed according to the ceasefire agreement.

Hezbollah never agreed to disarm, that would be suicide and lead to the occupation of Lebanon by the Israelis.

 

[Shusha]

But bothwings is not allowed to turn up in Warsaw or Glasgow armed to the teeth and take a house and land that belongs to people already living there like this bastard in the video who came from New York

Bothwings doesn't have to turn up to Warsaw or Glasgow armed to the teeth, or armed at all. He just has to apply for citizenship in his country or countries of ancestry. That's the way individual citizenship works. It's the way it works in Israel too. No different from Scotland or Poland.

But we are not discussing individual citizenship. We are discussing the collective rights of a people to self-determination, including sovereignty. Israel did not "win" that right in armed conflict. It is an inherent right for all peoples. That right was recognized by the international community in 1922 in the legal document of the Mandate for Palestine. Israel was required to defend that right when it was attacked in 1948.

And Sheik Jarrah is hella complicated. Each individual case is different; the laws are complicated mixture of Ottoman, Jordanian, and Israeli; Jews were ethnically cleansed from their homes, then those homes were taken over by Arabs who now lay claim to them; illegal construction is rampant; court cases can take decades; paperwork is hard to come by. It's not a matter of simplicity.

 

[Shusha]

Hezbollah never agreed to disarm, that would be suicide and lead to the occupation of Lebanon by the Israelis.

Lebanon and Israel have an agreement. Lebanon is required to ensure Hezbollah is disarmed. Why would Israel occupy Lebanon?

 

[Deadstick]

Lebanon and Israel have an agreement. Lebanon is required to ensure Hezbollah is disarmed. Why would Israel occupy Lebanon?

Same reason they want chunks of other Countries in the area, greater Israel, who in Lebanon have a agreement? the clowns who would give their Country away, the Lebanese army are a joke, only Hezbollah has resisted Isaraeli aggression if not for them Israelis would be drinking beer on the Corniche.

 

[Shusha]

Same reason they want chunks of other Countries in the area, greater Israel, who in Lebanon have a agreement? the clowns who would give their Country away, the Lebanese army are a joke, only Hezbollah has resisted Isaraeli aggression if not for them Israelis would be drinking beer on the Corniche.

Ah, so you mean to say that Hezbollah is "resisting" the government of Lebanon? Because the government of Lebanon would give parts of their State away to Israel?

 

[Deadstick]

Ah, so you mean to say that Hezbollah is "resisting" the government of Lebanon? Because the government of Lebanon would give parts of their State away to Israel?

Hezbollah are part of the Lebanese Government, they have members in the Parliament, but there have always been collaborators in the Country, remember Saad Haddad who deserted the Lebanese army and formed the collaborationist force the South Lebanese army, armed by Israel, those are the people i am talking about and the murdering filth the Falange who slaughtered thousands of Palestinians in the Sabra and Shatila camp while the IDF stood watching.

 

[HikerGuy83]

If only the jews had put down their arms in the Warsaw Ghetto the SS would have stopped, if the French resistance had put down their guns the Nazis would have said ok let by gones be bygones they would have stood in the streets holding hands singing Kumbaya.

Hmmmm........

Let's see. The Jews were attacked. the french were attacked......

And who got attacked.....?

Oh yeah....Isreal.

Make stupid decisions.....get real stupid decisions.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Genocide means the systematic elimination of a race or group of people. Explain how the pals are being subjected to genocide when their population continues to GROW not shrink.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Genocide means the systematic elimination of a race or group of people. Explain how the pals are being subjected to genocide when their population continues to GROW not shrink.

All the hospitals bombed, their water supply destroyed and concrete poured into it. Clearly, Hamas favorite hiding places must be ICU units in hospitals, Christian churches, water pumping stations and olive groves

How is their population "growing"?