The Humanitarian Gaza Flotillas Saga

[flacaltenn]

The plain fact is that NGOs and governments have a policy of not allowing the oppressing party to distribute aid for the reasons stated. It really doesn't matter what you think.

Then virtually no aid would ever flow to Africa or Somalia or other worldly hellholes. In fact -- the GOVERNMENTS STEAL that aid and do a lousy job of distribution. Look at our mess just attempting to "aid" Somalia. YET -- THAT didn't stop NGOs from sending the goods in.. You are inventing NGO policies that don't apply to customs and security inspections..

 

[flacaltenn]

Israel did a great job of diffusing the provocation.

I am surprised though that the pro pals didn't provoke violence so that they could be the victims of the brutal Jews...er....zionists. LOL

Why can't Gazan's have humanitarian aid?

This shows just how sick your society is.

They can.. They need to go thru security and customs at Ashdod. Until such time that Hamas allows International Inspectors to investigate and verify their customs controls.. Do you know where the Gaza Naval Customs station is and what they attempt to interdict? All civilized nations do this.. And they comply with International treaties and Arms control...

All civilized nations allow International Inspectors to investigate and verify their custom controls?

Yes --- of course.. This news to you? They are subject to compliance with international law and subject to inspection in MANY trade agreements and pacts. This would all be all be news to Hamas savages, but I figured you might know that...

 

[aris2chat]

"A state" is a propaganda term.

The Israeli Defense Ministry confirmed today that there was absolutely no humanitarian aid aboard the recent flotilla, aside from a few strawberries.

Just illegals trying to enter Gaza

They should have put a blockade on all those illegal jewish immigrants back in the '30s

Too late now... that's a bitch, ain't it?

But Kondor3 , They were bringing in vital humanitarian aid. Check it out.


Pro-Palestinian activists aboard a Swedish vessel tried and failed to punch through Israel’s maritime blockade of Gaza this week. Israeli commandos boarded the vessel, searched the ship and brought it to an Israeli port.

The Israeli military called the operation “uneventful.” According to a report, Israel’s Channel 2, one of the activists was zapped with a taser. The foreign activists were detained and are being deported.

In the scope of Middle East confrontations, it was a minor, though publicized, affair.

Afterwards, Israel’s defense minister Moshe Yaalon said, “there was no aid on board” the activist ship.

Not necessarily so — but pretty close. We checked. You decide.


The humanitarian aid aboard a recent flotilla to Gaza fit in two cardboard boxes

solar panel and the smaller the nebulizer. Not at the top of any vital item list.
A nebulizer can easily be made from a water bottle and tape.

If one of those boxes were filled with tape it might be urgently needed as well as duel use by terrorists.................................
as for the solar panel, that could have arrived in a small light weight bow of solar film and it could be put together easily in gaza. A boat load of solar film could have supplied power to most of gaza city.

Maybe all the real supplies were on the other boats that did not make it gaza?

If they wasted gas for the boat's engine, it was a waste of money.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Most donors, in any such situation, refuse to allow the oppressor to be a middle man in providing humanitarian aid. This has been the policy of NGOs and Governments in almost every case throughout the world. The reason for this is that oppressors manipulate access to the aid to suit the oppressor's interests. The U.S. took this position in Darfur, for example. Not allowing Sudan to distribute aid. It is just common sense.

Like Israel is likely to steal a crate of Band-Aid and box of Maalox.. "middleman" -- no.. Acting to assure customs compliance to International standards -- yes. Ask the Government of Gaza to get on the ball and get internationally recognized and inspected to do that job..

And "good luck with all that"...

What happened to all that cement that was on a previous flotilla? I don't recall anyone mentioning it.

The Palestinians have already requested international inspections of imports.

What are the inspection requirements for exports?

 

[montelatici]

The plain fact is that NGOs and governments have a policy of not allowing the oppressing party to distribute aid for the reasons stated. It really doesn't matter what you think.

Then virtually no aid would ever flow to Africa or Somalia or other worldly hellholes. In fact -- the GOVERNMENTS STEAL that aid and do a lousy job of distribution. Look at our mess just attempting to "aid" Somalia. YET -- THAT didn't stop NGOs from sending the goods in.. You are inventing NGO policies that don't apply to customs and security inspections..

Humanitarian aid delivery policy is designed to avoid the possibility that belligerents can use the delay, acceleration and ultimate delivery of aid (manipulation) as a means of gaining an advantage in a struggle military, political or otherwise. Neutrality of aid organizations is a primary necessity.

 

[flacaltenn]

The plain fact is that NGOs and governments have a policy of not allowing the oppressing party to distribute aid for the reasons stated. It really doesn't matter what you think.

Then virtually no aid would ever flow to Africa or Somalia or other worldly hellholes. In fact -- the GOVERNMENTS STEAL that aid and do a lousy job of distribution. Look at our mess just attempting to "aid" Somalia. YET -- THAT didn't stop NGOs from sending the goods in.. You are inventing NGO policies that don't apply to customs and security inspections..

Humanitarian aid delivery policy is designed to avoid the possibility that belligerents can use the delay, acceleration and ultimate delivery of aid (manipulation) as a means of gaining an advantage in a struggle military, political or otherwise. Neutrality of aid organizations is a primary necessity.

THese seem like how you WANT things to be. Rather than how they are. Aid organizations are kissing ass of corrupt governments all the time. As far as belligerent delays --- I encounter them every week. Used to be the Chinese would DISMANTLE any electronics I sent over there. Often arrived with pieces missing or just a pile of parts. Cry me a river...

HOWEVER --- if you have evidence that there ARE belligerent delays at the Israeli port -- we can discuss that.
If there wasn't a military government in charge of Gaza -- there would be less chances that Gaza is trying to gain a military advantage eh?

If you have to pull the ship's apart to find rocket kits and weapons -- that's how it is.. Happens on our borders all the freaking time. From your perspective -- humanitarian aid would INCLUDE rockets and explosives.. Am I right?

 

[flacaltenn]

If Hamas hadn't staged their bloody Gaza coupe.. There'd be an Intl Airport AND an Intl Seaport there RIGHT NOW !!! It's part of the poor prioritization on important things to the folks of Gaza who ALLOW this political dysfunction..

 

[Billo_Really]

If Hamas hadn't staged their bloody Gaza coupe.. There'd be an Intl Airport AND an Intl Seaport there RIGHT NOW !!! It's part of the poor prioritization on important things to the folks of Gaza who ALLOW this political dysfunction..

They didn't stage a bloody coup. The won a fair and democratic election.

 

[Billo_Really]

THese seem like how you WANT things to be. Rather than how they are. Aid organizations are kissing ass of corrupt governments all the time. As far as belligerent delays --- I encounter them every week. Used to be the Chinese would DISMANTLE any electronics I sent over there. Often arrived with pieces missing or just a pile of parts. Cry me a river...

HOWEVER --- if you have evidence that there ARE belligerent delays at the Israeli port -- we can discuss that.
If there wasn't a military government in charge of Gaza -- there would be less chances that Gaza is trying to gain a military advantage eh?

If you have to pull the ship's apart to find rocket kits and weapons -- that's how it is.. Happens on our borders all the freaking time. From your perspective -- humanitarian aid would INCLUDE rockets and explosives.. Am I right?

Let me put it this way, Israel has no right at all to stop anything going into Gaza.

 

[flacaltenn]

THese seem like how you WANT things to be. Rather than how they are. Aid organizations are kissing ass of corrupt governments all the time. As far as belligerent delays --- I encounter them every week. Used to be the Chinese would DISMANTLE any electronics I sent over there. Often arrived with pieces missing or just a pile of parts. Cry me a river...

HOWEVER --- if you have evidence that there ARE belligerent delays at the Israeli port -- we can discuss that.
If there wasn't a military government in charge of Gaza -- there would be less chances that Gaza is trying to gain a military advantage eh?

If you have to pull the ship's apart to find rocket kits and weapons -- that's how it is.. Happens on our borders all the freaking time. From your perspective -- humanitarian aid would INCLUDE rockets and explosives.. Am I right?

Let me put it this way, Israel has no right at all to stop anything going into Gaza.

Figured that was your position. I'm sure we (USA) don't have any right to contain other countries that pose a threat to our security either..

 

[P F Tinmore]

If Hamas hadn't staged their bloody Gaza coupe.. There'd be an Intl Airport AND an Intl Seaport there RIGHT NOW !!! It's part of the poor prioritization on important things to the folks of Gaza who ALLOW this political dysfunction..

After the so called coup:

The president was still the president.
The prime minister was still the prime minister.
No cabinet minister was changed.
No members of parliament were changed.
No laws were changed.
The constitution was still in force.

This was the weirdest coup in history. Or maybe it was just a lie.

 

[flacaltenn]

If Hamas hadn't staged their bloody Gaza coupe.. There'd be an Intl Airport AND an Intl Seaport there RIGHT NOW !!! It's part of the poor prioritization on important things to the folks of Gaza who ALLOW this political dysfunction..

They didn't stage a bloody coup. The won a fair and democratic election.

Yeah -- after a bloody fight for control. The Freedom of Gaza was NOT given to Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist organization. The WORLD immediately isolated Gaza after the infection that you call an election..

When is the NEXT PA Election jerk-off? When was the LAST ONE ??

 

[flacaltenn]

Point is -- Plans and CONSTRUCTION of both an airport and a seaport for the Gazans were in the works....

The people of Gaza did not VALUE those things.. They supported Hamas. Their Loss.. NOT my problem...

 

[montelatici]

The plain fact is that NGOs and governments have a policy of not allowing the oppressing party to distribute aid for the reasons stated. It really doesn't matter what you think.

Then virtually no aid would ever flow to Africa or Somalia or other worldly hellholes. In fact -- the GOVERNMENTS STEAL that aid and do a lousy job of distribution. Look at our mess just attempting to "aid" Somalia. YET -- THAT didn't stop NGOs from sending the goods in.. You are inventing NGO policies that don't apply to customs and security inspections..

Humanitarian aid delivery policy is designed to avoid the possibility that belligerents can use the delay, acceleration and ultimate delivery of aid (manipulation) as a means of gaining an advantage in a struggle military, political or otherwise. Neutrality of aid organizations is a primary necessity.

THese seem like how you WANT things to be. Rather than how they are. Aid organizations are kissing ass of corrupt governments all the time. As far as belligerent delays --- I encounter them every week. Used to be the Chinese would DISMANTLE any electronics I sent over there. Often arrived with pieces missing or just a pile of parts. Cry me a river...

HOWEVER --- if you have evidence that there ARE belligerent delays at the Israeli port -- we can discuss that.
If there wasn't a military government in charge of Gaza -- there would be less chances that Gaza is trying to gain a military advantage eh?

If you have to pull the ship's apart to find rocket kits and weapons -- that's how it is.. Happens on our borders all the freaking time. From your perspective -- humanitarian aid would INCLUDE rockets and explosives.. Am I right?

Where the heck do you come up with "From your perspective -- humanitarian aid would INCLUDE rockets and explosives.."? How can stating that humanitarian aid purveyors must be and appear neutral lead you to believe that I would believe that humanitarian aid would include arms?

The government in charge in Gaza is facing a military blockade and an adversary that has never lifted control over the territory's land borders, territorial sea or air space.

Manipulation of aid delivery by a belligerent is not limited to delays. The Israelis could for example, instead of releasing the aid to the Gaza people could insist on releasing it to the PLO, this would enhance the PLO's standing affecting neutrality vis-a-vis political factions.

 

[flacaltenn]

Here's where I came up with Humanitarian Aid would include rockets and explosives --- Billo just essentially said that when he said Israel has no right to inspect ANYTHING going into Gaza.. Do you agree with that statement?

You'll have to take that issue up with the past few Egyptian govts as well since they aren't gonna allow an Iranian Proxy terrorist army to camp out on THEIR border either.

Having Israel DIVERT aid to the Fatah factions would just make things worse. They don't WANT to divert aid -- they want to keep weapons out of Hamas hands.

Why do you ignore the CHOICE that Gazans made?? They valued Intifada MORE than a Seaport or Airport or International recognition.. There was process and funding and help for those things as a settlement between Israel and the PA ---- BEFORE their Civil War for power.

It was their choice -- you should respect that. They could be a booming Med economy today -- but chose to install leadership that ended any pretense of Democratic process in the entire PA...

 

[P F Tinmore]

Point is -- Plans and CONSTRUCTION of both an airport and a seaport for the Gazans were in the works....

The people of Gaza did not VALUE those things.. They supported Hamas. Their Loss.. NOT my problem...

Opened in 1998. Bombed in 2000.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Point is -- Plans and CONSTRUCTION of both an airport and a seaport for the Gazans were in the works....

The people of Gaza did not VALUE those things.. They supported Hamas. Their Loss.. NOT my problem...

In 1994, the Dutch Government committed some NLG45 million (circa €23 million) to the Gaza Sea Port project; France committed additional US$20 million. The same year, the Palestinian Authority (PA) and the Dutch-French European Gaza Development Group (EGDG) signed a contract for the project. It was difficult to reach consensus with Israel on issues regarding engineering, operations and security. Due to Israeli obstruction, the 1994 contract expired before the works could start.[5]

On 20 April 2000, the parties signed a new contract. Phase one of the project started on 18 July.[6] The construction was halted, as Israel refused to facilitate the supply of needed construction materials.[7] On 17 and 18 September 2000, Israeli tanks destroyed the project site.[8] In October, Israel bombed the building site in response to an incident in Ramallah. Following this, the Donor States ceased funding the project and the work on the port stopped.[9]

Gaza Seaport plans - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[flacaltenn]

Point is -- Plans and CONSTRUCTION of both an airport and a seaport for the Gazans were in the works....

The people of Gaza did not VALUE those things.. They supported Hamas. Their Loss.. NOT my problem...

Opened in 1998. Bombed in 2000.

Kinda ruins the argument that Israel NEVER released control of Gaza airspace or commerce. Even BEFORE the withdrawal..

As part of the withdrawal, there were plans and process set up to REOPEN and rebuild the Airport..
Was not very important to the Gazans evidently.. THey KNEW a Hamas govt would end any chance of that happening. THEY made the decision..

 

[P F Tinmore]

Point is -- Plans and CONSTRUCTION of both an airport and a seaport for the Gazans were in the works....

The people of Gaza did not VALUE those things.. They supported Hamas. Their Loss.. NOT my problem...

Opened in 1998. Bombed in 2000.

Kinda ruins the argument that Israel NEVER released control of Gaza airspace or commerce. Even BEFORE the withdrawal..

As part of the withdrawal, there were plans and process set up to REOPEN and rebuild the Airport..
Was not very important to the Gazans evidently.. THey KNEW a Hamas govt would end any chance of that happening. THEY made the decision..

The airport was bombed long before Israeli liars started blaming Hamas.

 

[montelatici]

Here's where I came up with Humanitarian Aid would include rockets and explosives --- Billo just essentially said that when he said Israel has no right to inspect ANYTHING going into Gaza.. Do you agree with that statement?

You'll have to take that issue up with the past few Egyptian govts as well since they aren't gonna allow an Iranian Proxy terrorist army to camp out on THEIR border either.

Having Israel DIVERT aid to the Fatah factions would just make things worse. They don't WANT to divert aid -- they want to keep weapons out of Hamas hands.

Why do you ignore the CHOICE that Gazans made?? They valued Intifada MORE than a Seaport or Airport or International recognition.. There was process and funding and help for those things as a settlement between Israel and the PA ---- BEFORE their Civil War for power.

It was their choice -- you should respect that. They could be a booming Med economy today -- but chose to install leadership that ended any pretense of Democratic process in the entire PA...

As long as Israel is the occupying power, it has the right to inspect. On the other hand a blockaded entity has the right, actually duty, to attempt to break the blockade.

The Gazans, like all Palestinians, value independence and national liberation. There was an airport, the Israelis bombed it during the first Intifada in retaliation for disturbances on the West Bank. In any case it was a joke sovereignty-wise as the Israelis controlled it.


"Israel first bombed Gaza airport in 2001, in answer to Palestinian militant attacks on Israelis in the West Bank. The second Palestinian Intifada had erupted a few months earlier. Israel's F-16s later repeatedly rocketed the runway and knocked down the tower.Palestinian Airlines shifted operations to Egypt and Jordan; the airport never reopened......in the old airport's brief life, passengers and baggage were monitored by Israeli security staff as they passed in and out."


Gaza s Shattered Airport Once A Symbol Of Sovereignty Parallels NPR