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The Great Socialism Gap: Socialism doesn’t freak out Democratic voters the way it freaks out other..

The Purge

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...Americans. That’s a problem.

And an article from of all places...
Slate ^ | February 24, 2020 | William Saletan

For the past month, the centrist Democrats running against Sen. Bernie Sanders have begged Democratic voters not to nominate him. Former Vice President Joe Biden, former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, and Sen. Amy Klobuchar have argued that putting a socialist atop the ticket would help President Donald Trump and hurt Democratic candidates down the ballot. These warnings are well-founded, but they haven’t worked. Sanders has won the popular vote in Iowa, New Hampshire, and Nevada.

Why, despite the warnings, is Sanders still winning? One reason is that a lot of people like him and what he stands for. Another reason is that other candidates are splitting the votes of moderate Democrats, leaving him with a plurality on the left. But there’s a third reason: Socialism doesn’t freak out Democratic voters the way it freaks out other Americans. On this subject, Democrats are very different not just from Republicans, but also from independents, who represent about 40 percent of Americans and about 30 percent of the electorate. Socialism is a loser among independents, and this makes it a liability in a general election. But Democrats don’t feel an aversion to socialism. So perhaps they don’t see the extent of the political danger.

The detachment starts with Sanders voters. In a September poll taken by Data for Progress, 37 percent of them identified themselves not as progressives or liberals, but as socialists, democratic socialists, or communists. Nearly all of them endorsed democratic socialism. In a January NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, most Sanders voters endorsed socialism even without the word “democratic” in front of it. Only 4 percent of them opposed it. These people aren’t likely to buy the argument that nominating a socialist is an unnecessary risk. For them, electing a socialist is the ballgame.

------------

There's a very interesting novel written in 1888 by Edward Bellamy regarding the perfect (socialist) Utopian world in the year 2000.

In the 1930s, it was declared by a number of magazines to be the most important novel of the previous 50 years.

Check out the plot summary in the Wikipedia article below.

Looking Backward (Wikipedia)

In a Gallup poll taken last month, Democrats didn’t differ much from independents in their stated willingness to vote for a black, female, gay, or atheist presidential nominee. For a Muslim nominee, the gap was more then 30 net percentage points. For a socialist, it was more than 60 points.
 

forkup

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...Americans. That’s a problem.

And an article from of all places...
Slate ^ | February 24, 2020 | William Saletan

For the past month, the centrist Democrats running against Sen. Bernie Sanders have begged Democratic voters not to nominate him. Former Vice President Joe Biden, former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, and Sen. Amy Klobuchar have argued that putting a socialist atop the ticket would help President Donald Trump and hurt Democratic candidates down the ballot. These warnings are well-founded, but they haven’t worked. Sanders has won the popular vote in Iowa, New Hampshire, and Nevada.

Why, despite the warnings, is Sanders still winning? One reason is that a lot of people like him and what he stands for. Another reason is that other candidates are splitting the votes of moderate Democrats, leaving him with a plurality on the left. But there’s a third reason: Socialism doesn’t freak out Democratic voters the way it freaks out other Americans. On this subject, Democrats are very different not just from Republicans, but also from independents, who represent about 40 percent of Americans and about 30 percent of the electorate. Socialism is a loser among independents, and this makes it a liability in a general election. But Democrats don’t feel an aversion to socialism. So perhaps they don’t see the extent of the political danger.

The detachment starts with Sanders voters. In a September poll taken by Data for Progress, 37 percent of them identified themselves not as progressives or liberals, but as socialists, democratic socialists, or communists. Nearly all of them endorsed democratic socialism. In a January NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, most Sanders voters endorsed socialism even without the word “democratic” in front of it. Only 4 percent of them opposed it. These people aren’t likely to buy the argument that nominating a socialist is an unnecessary risk. For them, electing a socialist is the ballgame.

------------

There's a very interesting novel written in 1888 by Edward Bellamy regarding the perfect (socialist) Utopian world in the year 2000.

In the 1930s, it was declared by a number of magazines to be the most important novel of the previous 50 years.

Check out the plot summary in the Wikipedia article below.

Looking Backward (Wikipedia)

In a Gallup poll taken last month, Democrats didn’t differ much from independents in their stated willingness to vote for a black, female, gay, or atheist presidential nominee. For a Muslim nominee, the gap was more then 30 net percentage points. For a socialist, it was more than 60 points.
I think it's a direct result of the simple fact that in the US in general and on the right in particular Socialism, Communism... even Fascism get conflated. To the point that nobody knows what they mean.

So the right opposes it, even when what Bernie is suggesting is simply a form of Social Democracy like in Europe, which is Capitalism with a strong social safety net. they condemn it as Communism which it surely isn't.

The left supports it even going as far supporting Communism which I'm pretty sure those that say they support it know nothing about.

From a political standpoint keeping it nice, a vague makes sense. It's much easier to attack somebody for being Communist than having to explain to people why it's not in their best interest to have access to healthcare regardless of how rich you are. Or to explain why it is in their best interest to have a healthcare system that makes you pay twice as much for worse results compared to other Western nations. Or to explain why it makes sense to pay back loans for 20 years to go to college.

This is the conundrum for Bernie. How do you explain to people what you actually represent when there's a huge echo chamber misrepresenting what you stand for?
 

occupied

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Socialism is not scary because American capitalism has become little more than an unstable debt trap for the working class. Simple as that.
 

pknopp

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"Socialism" doesn't freak out anyone once you get them to be honest concerning all the socialism they accept now. Ask people on Medicare if they are willing to get rid of it. Ask anyone with a 401k if they are willing to end the massive pumping by the Federal Reserve. Ask Trump supporters to condemn his bail outs.

"Well, that's not Socialism". Yes it is and it's most certainly the kind of "socialism" others condemn.
 

pknopp

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Socialism is not scary because American capitalism has become little more than an unstable debt trap for the working class. Simple as that.
American Capitalism does not work without a socialist support system.
 

Mac1958

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Trumpism is ugly, and Leftism is absurd
That's what happens when Trumpsters scream SOCIALISM AAAUUUGGGHHH at every last fucking thing that moves. The term becomes diluted and damn near worthless.

Just like the way the PC/Identity Politics zealots scream RACISM AAAUUUGGGHHH at every last fucking thing that moves. It doesn't have the same effect as it used to.

So similar, these two whacked-out ends.
.
 

occupied

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Socialism is not scary because American capitalism has become little more than an unstable debt trap for the working class. Simple as that.
American Capitalism does not work without a socialist support system.
That's true. It should be a national shame that so many working people have to seek assistance.
 

Flash

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Socialism is not scary because American capitalism has become little more than an unstable debt trap for the working class. Simple as that.
American Capitalism does not work without a socialist support system.

You are confused Moon Bat.

This filthy ass idea of taking money away from the people that earned it to give to the shitheads that didn't earn it destroys the wealth that was created under capitalism. Since Socialism doesn't create jackshit it only works as long as the Socialist bosses can steal the money that was made under Capitalism.

I have an idea Moon Bat. You pay your bills and I will pay mine and we will leave the government out of stealing money to pay other people's bills. Sounds good and fair, doesn't it?

These welfare programs that we already have have hurt this country. Like the trillions we have spent and have not changed the poverty level, curtailed economic growth, have destroyed the families in the minority community and resulted in poverty being exported to the US,. More socialism is the wrong thing and will turn this country into a shithole like other countries.
 
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pknopp

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MisterBeale

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"Socialism" doesn't freak out anyone once you get them to be honest concerning all the socialism they accept now. Ask people on Medicare if they are willing to get rid of it. Ask anyone with a 401k if they are willing to end the massive pumping by the Federal Reserve. Ask Trump supporters to condemn his bail outs.

"Well, that's not Socialism". Yes it is and it's most certainly the kind of "socialism" others condemn.
You are ignorant.

What federally owned government industries do Americans accept now?
 

Flash

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Bernie's followers willing to believe in Communism shows the tremendous power of deception.

Bernie looks like a meek old man, but Communists ultimately use loss of freedoms, violence and death as tools to control others and to squash dissent.

Do not be deceived by meek little Bernie. Dictators have to start somewhere.
 

forkup

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Socialism is not scary because American capitalism has become little more than an unstable debt trap for the working class. Simple as that.
American Capitalism does not work without a socialist support system.

You are confused Moon Bat.

This filthy ass idea of taking money away from the people that earned it to give to the shitheads that didn't earn it destroys the wealth that was created under capitalism. Since Socialism doesn't create jackshit it only works as long as the Socialist bosses can steal the money that was made under Capitalism.

I have an idea Moon Bat. You pay your bills and I will pay mine and we will leave the government out of stealing money to pay other people's bills. Sounds good and fair, doesn't it?

These welfare programs that we already have have hurt this country. Like the trillions we have spent and have not changed the poverty level, curtailed economic growth, have destroyed the families in the minority community and resulted in poverty being exported to the US,. More socialism is the wrong thing and will turn this country into a shithole like other countries.
Oh giving away money too oil companies does make sense?
 

Flash

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Socialism is not scary because American capitalism has become little more than an unstable debt trap for the working class. Simple as that.
American Capitalism does not work without a socialist support system.

You are confused Moon Bat.
If you want to discuss this without the juvenile name calling that would be great.

You Moon Bats are incapable of being educated on simple things like basic Economics so you deserve to be ridiculed. You are as ignorant of Economics as you are ignorant of History, Climate Science, Biology, Ethics and the Constitution.

If you don't want to be ridiculed how about commenting on this idea: You pay your bills and I will pay mine and we will leave the government out of stealing money to pay other people's bills. Sounds good and fair, doesn't it?
 

occupied

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Socialism is not scary because American capitalism has become little more than an unstable debt trap for the working class. Simple as that.
American Capitalism does not work without a socialist support system.

You are confused Moon Bat.

This filthy ass idea of taking money away from the people that earned it to give to the shitheads that didn't earn it destroys the wealth that was created under capitalism. Since Socialism doesn't crate jackshit it only works as long as the Socialist bosses can steal the money that was made under Capitalism.

I have an idea Moon Bat. You pay your bills and I will pay mine and we will leave the government out of stealing money to pay other people's bills. Sounds good and fair, doesn't it?

These welfare programs that we already have have hurt this country. Like the trillions we have spent and have not changed the poverty level, curtailed economic growth, have destroyed the families in the minority community and resulted in poverty being exported to the US,. More socialism is the wrong thing and will turn this country into a shithole like other countries.
You love our system so much you need to work to save it from itself. Socialism always arises from the failure of capitalism to serve the needs of society. Providing for genuine opportunity and stability used to be the American way and it built the world you grew up in. Quit telling the youth they do not deserve what you had you selfish bastard.
 

Golfing Gator

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...Americans. That’s a problem.

And an article from of all places...
Slate ^ | February 24, 2020 | William Saletan

For the past month, the centrist Democrats running against Sen. Bernie Sanders have begged Democratic voters not to nominate him. Former Vice President Joe Biden, former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, and Sen. Amy Klobuchar have argued that putting a socialist atop the ticket would help President Donald Trump and hurt Democratic candidates down the ballot. These warnings are well-founded, but they haven’t worked. Sanders has won the popular vote in Iowa, New Hampshire, and Nevada.

Why, despite the warnings, is Sanders still winning? One reason is that a lot of people like him and what he stands for. Another reason is that other candidates are splitting the votes of moderate Democrats, leaving him with a plurality on the left. But there’s a third reason: Socialism doesn’t freak out Democratic voters the way it freaks out other Americans. On this subject, Democrats are very different not just from Republicans, but also from independents, who represent about 40 percent of Americans and about 30 percent of the electorate. Socialism is a loser among independents, and this makes it a liability in a general election. But Democrats don’t feel an aversion to socialism. So perhaps they don’t see the extent of the political danger.

The detachment starts with Sanders voters. In a September poll taken by Data for Progress, 37 percent of them identified themselves not as progressives or liberals, but as socialists, democratic socialists, or communists. Nearly all of them endorsed democratic socialism. In a January NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, most Sanders voters endorsed socialism even without the word “democratic” in front of it. Only 4 percent of them opposed it. These people aren’t likely to buy the argument that nominating a socialist is an unnecessary risk. For them, electing a socialist is the ballgame.

------------

There's a very interesting novel written in 1888 by Edward Bellamy regarding the perfect (socialist) Utopian world in the year 2000.

In the 1930s, it was declared by a number of magazines to be the most important novel of the previous 50 years.

Check out the plot summary in the Wikipedia article below.

Looking Backward (Wikipedia)

In a Gallup poll taken last month, Democrats didn’t differ much from independents in their stated willingness to vote for a black, female, gay, or atheist presidential nominee. For a Muslim nominee, the gap was more then 30 net percentage points. For a socialist, it was more than 60 points.
This is what happens when a word is over used and misused, it loses it meanings and thus its importance.
 

Golfing Gator

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"Socialism" doesn't freak out anyone once you get them to be honest concerning all the socialism they accept now. Ask people on Medicare if they are willing to get rid of it. Ask anyone with a 401k if they are willing to end the massive pumping by the Federal Reserve. Ask Trump supporters to condemn his bail outs.

"Well, that's not Socialism". Yes it is and it's most certainly the kind of "socialism" others condemn.
You are ignorant.

What federally owned government industries do Americans accept now?
And thus is the problem with the word and why it does not freak people out...it is used in a 1000 different ways.

Some say that food stamps and welfare are Socialism, but they are not federally owned industries so by your definition they are not.
 

pknopp

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"Socialism" doesn't freak out anyone once you get them to be honest concerning all the socialism they accept now. Ask people on Medicare if they are willing to get rid of it. Ask anyone with a 401k if they are willing to end the massive pumping by the Federal Reserve. Ask Trump supporters to condemn his bail outs.

"Well, that's not Socialism". Yes it is and it's most certainly the kind of "socialism" others condemn.
You are ignorant.

What federally owned government industries do Americans accept now?
You can avoid the point if you wish. We have covered this over and over already. Do you disagree that people are against the socialism I pointed out?
 

Flash

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[Q

Oh giving away money too oil companies does make sense?
Explain how we "give money away to oil companies".

You are not one of these stupid uneducated low information Moon Bats that think it is wrong for the tax code to allow a legitimate tax deduction for the expense of energy exploration, are you? One of these idiots that complain about things like that but support the filthy ass government providing subsidies to the solar and wind farm industries and then tax credits to the dumbshits that buy the technology.

How about joining Conservatives like me and advocate doing away with all government transfers of payments? All welfare, subsidies, grants, bailouts and entitlements. We will start twill stopping all those stupid subsidies to the Environmental Wacko industries.
 

22lcidw

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Socialism is not scary because American capitalism has become little more than an unstable debt trap for the working class. Simple as that.
American Capitalism does not work without a socialist support system.

You are confused Moon Bat.
If you want to discuss this without the juvenile name calling that would be great.
I can not say it is name calling because everyone should know this about political/economic systems going in. What the founders tried to imprint on people even with a flaw in its own constitution is that freedom was the reason for it. At the time there was no capitalism or socialism or communism. At least officially. At the same time we have uplifted socialist policies, we have taken away unalienable rights. The rights of the whole. And they most likely will not come back and will be expanded on.
 

Flash

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Socialism is not scary because American capitalism has become little more than an unstable debt trap for the working class. Simple as that.
American Capitalism does not work without a socialist support system.

You are confused Moon Bat.

This filthy ass idea of taking money away from the people that earned it to give to the shitheads that didn't earn it destroys the wealth that was created under capitalism. Since Socialism doesn't crate jackshit it only works as long as the Socialist bosses can steal the money that was made under Capitalism.

I have an idea Moon Bat. You pay your bills and I will pay mine and we will leave the government out of stealing money to pay other people's bills. Sounds good and fair, doesn't it?

These welfare programs that we already have have hurt this country. Like the trillions we have spent and have not changed the poverty level, curtailed economic growth, have destroyed the families in the minority community and resulted in poverty being exported to the US,. More socialism is the wrong thing and will turn this country into a shithole like other countries.
You love our system so much you need to work to save it from itself. Socialism always arises from the failure of capitalism to serve the needs of society. Providing for genuine opportunity and stability used to be the American way and it built the world you grew up in. Quit telling the youth they do not deserve what you had you selfish bastard.

You are confused Moon Bat.

Capitalism always creates wealth and serves the need of the Economy. It is when the greedy assholes shitholes that think they are entitled to the money made by other people when Socialism is advocated. Simple greed.

Greedy assholes think it is unfair that other people make more money than they do and Socialism is these shitheads using the government to steal that money. Despicable, isn't it?

I am not poorer because somebody else is richer. However, I am poorer when the filthy government takes my money and gives it to somebody else that didn't earn it.

How about you paying your bills and I'll pay mine and we will leave the government out of the business of stealing money? How about not be a greedy asshole and not think the government should steal money from other people to pay your bills?
 

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