The G.O.P. Stalinists Invade Upstate New York

[Bfgrn]

Wow.

Stalinists are calling other people Stalinists.

Can't anyone show Mao some love?

Oh, wait...

SURE...

Sex and power inside "the C Street House"

Sanford, Ensign, and other regulars receive guidance from the invisible fundamentalist group known as the Family

By Jeff Sharlet
...Family...They're followers of a political religion that embraces elitism, disdains democracy, and pursues power for its members the better to "advance the Kingdom." They say they're working for Jesus, but their Christ is a power-hungry, inside-the-Beltway savior not many churchgoers would recognize. Sexual peccadilloes aside, the Family acts today like the most powerful lobby in America that isn't registered as a lobby -- and is thus immune from the scrutiny attending the other powerful organizations like Big Pharma and Big Insurance that exert pressure on public policy.

The Family likes to call itself a "Christian Mafia," but it began 74 years ago as an anti-New Deal coalition of businessmen convinced that organized labor was under the sway of Satan. The Great Depression, they believed, was a punishment from God for what they viewed as FDR's socialism. The Family's goal was the "consecration" of America to God, first through the repeal of New Deal reforms, then through the aggressive expansion of American power during the Cold War. They called this a "Worldwide Spiritual Offensive," but in Washington, it amounted to the nation's first fundamentalist lobby.

If the Family men who stood over John Ensign as he wrote a baldly insincere breakup letter to his mistress were naive about hearts that want what they want, they don't claim ignorance about the strongmen with whom they build bonds of prayer and foreign aid. They admire them. Counseling Rep. Tiahrt, Doug Coe offered Pol Pot and Osama bin Laden as men whose commitment to their causes is to be emulated. Preaching on the meaning of Christ's words, he says, "You know Jesus said 'You got to put Him before mother-father-brother sister? Hitler, Lenin, Mao, that's what they taught the kids. Mao even had the kids killing their own mother and father. But it wasn't murder. It was for building the new nation. The new kingdom."

Serious question - can you actually forumuate your own thoughts and opinions or do you just regurgitate those of other people?

Debate me coward and find out...

BTW what does forumuate mean, does it have something to do with a court or tribunal?

 

[California Girl]

SURE...

Sex and power inside "the C Street House"

Sanford, Ensign, and other regulars receive guidance from the invisible fundamentalist group known as the Family

By Jeff Sharlet
...Family...They're followers of a political religion that embraces elitism, disdains democracy, and pursues power for its members the better to "advance the Kingdom." They say they're working for Jesus, but their Christ is a power-hungry, inside-the-Beltway savior not many churchgoers would recognize. Sexual peccadilloes aside, the Family acts today like the most powerful lobby in America that isn't registered as a lobby -- and is thus immune from the scrutiny attending the other powerful organizations like Big Pharma and Big Insurance that exert pressure on public policy.

The Family likes to call itself a "Christian Mafia," but it began 74 years ago as an anti-New Deal coalition of businessmen convinced that organized labor was under the sway of Satan. The Great Depression, they believed, was a punishment from God for what they viewed as FDR's socialism. The Family's goal was the "consecration" of America to God, first through the repeal of New Deal reforms, then through the aggressive expansion of American power during the Cold War. They called this a "Worldwide Spiritual Offensive," but in Washington, it amounted to the nation's first fundamentalist lobby.

If the Family men who stood over John Ensign as he wrote a baldly insincere breakup letter to his mistress were naive about hearts that want what they want, they don't claim ignorance about the strongmen with whom they build bonds of prayer and foreign aid. They admire them. Counseling Rep. Tiahrt, Doug Coe offered Pol Pot and Osama bin Laden as men whose commitment to their causes is to be emulated. Preaching on the meaning of Christ's words, he says, "You know Jesus said 'You got to put Him before mother-father-brother sister? Hitler, Lenin, Mao, that's what they taught the kids. Mao even had the kids killing their own mother and father. But it wasn't murder. It was for building the new nation. The new kingdom."

Serious question - can you actually forumuate your own thoughts and opinions or do you just regurgitate those of other people?

Debate me coward and find out...

BTW what does forumuate mean, does it have something to do with a court or tribunal?

LOL. Best you can come back with - a typo? Hey, at least that means I'm not cutting and pasting!

Idiot boy, how many times do we have to go through the 'debate' thing? Debate - on a forum like this - is not possible. Live with it. Debates need rules. Come to a real debate forum and find out.... You wouldn't last more than a day. No cutting and pasting there, mate.

 

[Bfgrn]

Serious question - can you actually forumuate your own thoughts and opinions or do you just regurgitate those of other people?

Debate me coward and find out...

BTW what does forumuate mean, does it have something to do with a court or tribunal?

LOL. Best you can come back with - a typo? Hey, at least that means I'm not cutting and pasting!

Idiot boy, how many times do we have to go through the 'debate' thing? Debate - on a forum like this - is not possible. Live with it. Debates need rules. Come to a real debate forum and find out.... You wouldn't last more than a day. No cutting and pasting there, mate.

Yes, you right wing conformists latch on to a word like "debate"; then your little fear driven intellect needs to add rules and authority figures... Hey here's an idea, let's just pick a topic and "wing it" or we could scour Thesaurus for a synonym that doesn't inflame you right wing fears and dogma?

My God, the rigid anal retentive right wing mind would require kids having a choose up game of stick ball to hire major league umpires...

Hey Cali girl, did you ever go for a coffee or a soda with a friend and discuss issues? Were there moderators or officials there?


"We have all seen these circus elephants complete with tusks, ivory in their head and thick skins, who move around the circus ring and grab the tail of the elephant ahead of them."
John F. Kennedy


Debate
to engage in argument or discussion

 

[SFC Ollie]

Fact is that the "Republican" was dropped out because she could no longer fool the Conservatives in the area with her Liberal believes. So they went out and got a real Conservative.

This election in NY District 23 won't be about Party affiliation but about the real issues; Liberal vs Conservative. And so far it looks real good for conservatism.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

To "challenge" someone to debate, you actually have to have a debate - with the rules that accompany debate. This forum is not that place.

Not to be harsh, but if you want High School Debate, you should probably look elsewhere. Insisting on structured rules of conduct outside of a debate hall is like taking a knife to a gun fight, you'll lose everytime.

 

[Oddball]

Not to be harsh, but if you want High School Debate, you should probably look elsewhere. Insisting on structured rules of conduct outside of a debate hall is like taking a knife to a gun fight, you'll lose everytime.

I've seen it done numerous times on the interwebs.

Anyone can start anything at any time, the principals can agree to rules of engagement and you're off.

 

[garyd]

BFGRN quoting Sharet on REpublicans is like quoting Stalinists on Trotsky.

 

[California Girl]

To "challenge" someone to debate, you actually have to have a debate - with the rules that accompany debate. This forum is not that place.

Not to be harsh, but if you want High School Debate, you should probably look elsewhere. Insisting on structured rules of conduct outside of a debate hall is like taking a knife to a gun fight, you'll lose everytime.

Not to state the obvious but in order to have a serious debate, you need to have some agreement on who is participating and accepted sources for materials used to back up any argument etc. On a board like this, that ain't gonna happen and since that is why I post here, that suits me fine. I am a member of a structured debate forum and that works well for formal, structured, debate. What I don't do is debate with people using the media as a 'source'. It's a joke and I say so every time anyone backs up their stance by usuing the media as a 'source' because the media are too partisan.

 

[California Girl]

Debate me coward and find out...

BTW what does forumuate mean, does it have something to do with a court or tribunal?

LOL. Best you can come back with - a typo? Hey, at least that means I'm not cutting and pasting!

Idiot boy, how many times do we have to go through the 'debate' thing? Debate - on a forum like this - is not possible. Live with it. Debates need rules. Come to a real debate forum and find out.... You wouldn't last more than a day. No cutting and pasting there, mate.

Yes, you right wing conformists latch on to a word like "debate"; then your little fear driven intellect needs to add rules and authority figures... Hey here's an idea, let's just pick a topic and "wing it" or we could scour Thesaurus for a synonym that doesn't inflame you right wing fears and dogma?

My God, the rigid anal retentive right wing mind would require kids having a choose up game of stick ball to hire major league umpires...

Hey Cali girl, did you ever go for a coffee or a soda with a friend and discuss issues? Were there moderators or officials there?


"We have all seen these circus elephants complete with tusks, ivory in their head and thick skins, who move around the circus ring and grab the tail of the elephant ahead of them."
John F. Kennedy


Debate
to engage in argument or discussion

Dear child, stop the whining. When I want to debate, I go to a forum where debate is done. That is not why I am a member of this site. I'm a member of this site because I can say just about anything I feel inclined to say. I like that. It's refreshing for me. I don't expect you to grasp that but since I spend my working life writing grown up stuff, the last thing I want to do in my free time is do more of the same.

Now, you can bemoan that all you want. I don't care. But the fact is that I have no intention of getting into a pisssing contest with you. Get over it.

 

[eagleseven]

I still think that informal debates are not only possible, but do happen here, if you know where to look. Unless you're actively participating in one, however, they can be hard to find, as the 1000-post flamefests tend to always find their way to the top of most subforums.

Here, rather than maintaning hard rules, the lead debaters carry guns and shoot any hecklers...and most people are smart enough to avoid walking outside of the OK Corral.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mnFsrmsA94"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mnFsrmsA94[/ame]

That said, I do frequent a more academic forum for the rigorous intellectual debates that are uncommon here.

 

[California Girl]

I still think that informal debates are not only possible, but do happen here, if you know where to look. Unless you're actively participating in one, however, they can be hard to find, as the 1000-post flamefests tend to always find their way to the top of most subforums.

Here, rather than maintaning hard rules, the lead debaters carry guns and shoot any hecklers...and most people are smart enough to avoid walking outside of the OK Corral.

That said, I do frequent a more academic forum for the rigorous intellectual debates that are uncommon here.

*Emphasis mine*

Me too! How embarrassing! I come here because it's gloves off, I certainly don't want to play by the rules here - how dull would that be?

 

[eagleseven]

I challenged you to discuss Barry Goldwater and his libertarianism

It sounds like he is the anti-Christ...or at least that is what Olbermann told me?


All sarcasm aside, it would appear that Barry Goldwater rejected unionism, the welfare state, and big government because he found them a waste of time and money in his own life. Rather than leave abandoned American veterans to the whims of a corrupt and inefficient government, he offered them his personal jet.

If only all Democrats were more like Barry Goldwater, we might have eliminated poverty in America, rather than have generated a permanent underclass. Of course, with no permanent underclass, the Democrats would have no base...

 

[PatekPhilippe]

I challenged you to discuss Barry Goldwater and his libertarianism

It sounds like he is the anti-Christ...or at least that is what Olbermann told me?


All sarcasm aside, it would appear that Barry Goldwater rejected unionism, the welfare state, and big government because he found them a waste of time and money in his own life. Rather than leave abandoned American veterans at the whims of corrupt and inefficient government planning, he offered them his personal jet.

If only all Democrats were more like Barry Goldwater, we might have eliminated poverty in America, rather than have generated a permanent underclass. Of course, with no permanent underclass, the Democrats would have no base...

Correct!!!! I'm glad I'm not the only one to see this FACT!!!!

 

[California Girl]

I challenged you to discuss Barry Goldwater and his libertarianism

It sounds like he is the anti-Christ...or at least that is what Olbermann told me?


All sarcasm aside, it would appear that Barry Goldwater rejected unionism, the welfare state, and big government because he found them a waste of time and money in his own life. Rather than leave abandoned American veterans to the whims of a corrupt and inefficient government, he offered them his personal jet.

If only all Democrats were more like Barry Goldwater, we might have eliminated poverty in America, rather than have generated a permanent underclass. Of course, with no permanent underclass, the Democrats would have no base...

If the Democrats were Goldwater Democrats, I might be inclined to consider them as a vote worth casting.

 

[Bfgrn]

I challenged you to discuss Barry Goldwater and his libertarianism

It sounds like he is the anti-Christ...or at least that is what Olbermann told me?


All sarcasm aside, it would appear that Barry Goldwater rejected unionism, the welfare state, and big government because he found them a waste of time and money in his own life. Rather than leave abandoned American veterans to the whims of a corrupt and inefficient government, he offered them his personal jet.

If only all Democrats were more like Barry Goldwater, we might have eliminated poverty in America, rather than have generated a permanent underclass. Of course, with no permanent underclass, the Democrats would have no base...

Really, when did Olbermann ever disparage Barry Goldwater? Did he slipped it in unnoticed when he interviewed one of Goldwater's closest friends? A guy that wrote a book based on his personal conversations with Goldwater about the current state of the conservative movement...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF0g-u-gM9I]YouTube - Conservatives Without Conscience[/ame]


Conservatives Without Conscience

Over a decade ago, John W. Dean, a former White House counsel, and the late Arizona Senator Barry M. Goldwater began a joint inquiry into what was happening to conservatism. At the time, the movement was first becoming increasingly radical, religious, and self-righteous. When Senator Goldwater's health precluded his continued work on their planned book, the project was set aside. But Dean did not stop searching for answers to their questions, particularly the failed effort by conservative Republicans to overturn the 1996 presidential election by impeaching President Clinton. Dean's interest is in understanding why conservative Republicans are doing what they are doing, and he found the striking explanation for the behavior of contemporary conservatives in the empirical studies of social scientists, who have been studying authoritarianism since World War II.

In Conservatives Without Conscience, Dean explains this body of scientific work to general readers and shows its direct relevance to contemporary conservatism.

 

[Bfgrn]

LOL. Best you can come back with - a typo? Hey, at least that means I'm not cutting and pasting!

Idiot boy, how many times do we have to go through the 'debate' thing? Debate - on a forum like this - is not possible. Live with it. Debates need rules. Come to a real debate forum and find out.... You wouldn't last more than a day. No cutting and pasting there, mate.

Yes, you right wing conformists latch on to a word like "debate"; then your little fear driven intellect needs to add rules and authority figures... Hey here's an idea, let's just pick a topic and "wing it" or we could scour Thesaurus for a synonym that doesn't inflame you right wing fears and dogma?

My God, the rigid anal retentive right wing mind would require kids having a choose up game of stick ball to hire major league umpires...

Hey Cali girl, did you ever go for a coffee or a soda with a friend and discuss issues? Were there moderators or officials there?


"We have all seen these circus elephants complete with tusks, ivory in their head and thick skins, who move around the circus ring and grab the tail of the elephant ahead of them."
John F. Kennedy


Debate
to engage in argument or discussion

Dear child, stop the whining. When I want to debate, I go to a forum where debate is done. That is not why I am a member of this site. I'm a member of this site because I can say just about anything I feel inclined to say. I like that. It's refreshing for me. I don't expect you to grasp that but since I spend my working life writing grown up stuff, the last thing I want to do in my free time is do more of the same.

Now, you can bemoan that all you want. I don't care. But the fact is that I have no intention of getting into a pisssing contest with you. Get over it.

I was "over it" before it began...I was fully aware you would never debate me before I challenged you...it is the right wing pea brain fear filled way... so your cowardice was already ingrained into your pea, I just brought it to light for all to see...and it's always fun to watch right wing pea brains try to justify their cowardice...

 

[Maple]

Yes and they are gonna invade Washington D. C on Thursday in opposition to the 2000 page monstrosity that they call health care reform, which is really just another takeover of 6% of our economy.LOL

 

[California Girl]

Yes, you right wing conformists latch on to a word like "debate"; then your little fear driven intellect needs to add rules and authority figures... Hey here's an idea, let's just pick a topic and "wing it" or we could scour Thesaurus for a synonym that doesn't inflame you right wing fears and dogma?

My God, the rigid anal retentive right wing mind would require kids having a choose up game of stick ball to hire major league umpires...

Hey Cali girl, did you ever go for a coffee or a soda with a friend and discuss issues? Were there moderators or officials there?


"We have all seen these circus elephants complete with tusks, ivory in their head and thick skins, who move around the circus ring and grab the tail of the elephant ahead of them."
John F. Kennedy


Debate
to engage in argument or discussion

Dear child, stop the whining. When I want to debate, I go to a forum where debate is done. That is not why I am a member of this site. I'm a member of this site because I can say just about anything I feel inclined to say. I like that. It's refreshing for me. I don't expect you to grasp that but since I spend my working life writing grown up stuff, the last thing I want to do in my free time is do more of the same.

Now, you can bemoan that all you want. I don't care. But the fact is that I have no intention of getting into a pisssing contest with you. Get over it.

I was "over it" before it began...I was fully aware you would never debate me before I challenged you...it is the right wing pea brain fear filled way... so your cowardice was already ingrained into your pea, I just brought it to light for all to see...and it's always fun to watch right wing pea brains try to justify their cowardice...

Stop fucking whining. I participate in this forum because it is no holes barred - which, because of my career and the other forums I participate in - is entertaining. That is this what passes for 'debate' in your world is sad, but I am not here to help you debate skills. Idiot.

 

[Bfgrn]

Dear child, stop the whining. When I want to debate, I go to a forum where debate is done. That is not why I am a member of this site. I'm a member of this site because I can say just about anything I feel inclined to say. I like that. It's refreshing for me. I don't expect you to grasp that but since I spend my working life writing grown up stuff, the last thing I want to do in my free time is do more of the same.

Now, you can bemoan that all you want. I don't care. But the fact is that I have no intention of getting into a pisssing contest with you. Get over it.

I was "over it" before it began...I was fully aware you would never debate me before I challenged you...it is the right wing pea brain fear filled way... so your cowardice was already ingrained into your pea, I just brought it to light for all to see...and it's always fun to watch right wing pea brains try to justify their cowardice...

Stop fucking whining. I participate in this forum because it is no holes barred - which, because of my career and the other forums I participate in - is entertaining. That is this what passes for 'debate' in your world is sad, but I am not here to help you debate skills. Idiot.

All the "whine" is coming from you...I'm just enjoying watching you continue to justify your cowardice...so in "real life" you are a master debater...but you're not allowed to show it off here...it's a career thing...

 

[Bfgrn]

To "challenge" someone to debate, you actually have to have a debate - with the rules that accompany debate. This forum is not that place.

Not to be harsh, but if you want High School Debate, you should probably look elsewhere. Insisting on structured rules of conduct outside of a debate hall is like taking a knife to a gun fight, you'll lose everytime.

Not to state the obvious but in order to have a serious debate, you need to have some agreement on who is participating and accepted sources for materials used to back up any argument etc. On a board like this, that ain't gonna happen and since that is why I post here, that suits me fine. I am a member of a structured debate forum and that works well for formal, structured, debate. What I don't do is debate with people using the media as a 'source'. It's a joke and I say so every time anyone backs up their stance by usuing the media as a 'source' because the media are too partisan.

REALLY??? But you DO use an organization that "calls" itself a media watchdog run by a guy that also runs an organization that helps elect conservatives?

I know MRC well. They are one of the most legitimate sources of information - I use them constantly in my job.

Media Research Center Inc. (MRC) is a conservative media watchdog group run by president and founder Brent Bozell.

L. Brent Bozell III is the founder and President of the Media Research Center, which calls itself a conservative media watchdog organization.

Bozell is Executive Director of the Conservative Victory Committee (CVC), "an independent multi-candidate political action committee that has helped elect dozens of conservative candidates over the past ten years.
Sourcewatch