The Fastest and Most Effective Solution to School Shooting.

[westwall]

Be aware that non-lethal options for self defense are often completely ineffective and leave the defender with a false sense of security.

The CED, commonly called a TASER, is only effective when two wires make body contact to center mass within a certain distance. Heavy clothing will defeat them. If the assailant makes sudden turning moves, the fragile wires will disengage. IF the shot is perfect (you only get one, two with some models), the charge only incapacitates the assailant for the 5-6 seconds the charge is active. There is no stun effect. Once the charge is depleted the assailant regains full muscle control and will probably be super-pissed off.

Police are trained to used TASERS to incapacitate a non-firearm wielding offender just long enough for a second officer to get in and cuff them And it's a very short window.

OC, or pepper, spray, is often ineffective against angry or substance affected people. The effects of the spray often won't kick in until after several minutes. OC spray requires you be within 2-3 yards of the assailant and get the stream of spray onto the assailant's face. Bug sprays, if they get into they eyes, can blur the vision, or force the assailant to close their eyes for several seconds. It won't incapacitate them.

If you're going up against an armed gunman, particularly one that has already demonstrated he will shoot and take victims, your best alternative is to continue shooting the assailant in center mass until they stop doing what they are doing. One shot is often, but not always sufficient, to achieve that objective.

No, you shoot two to center mass, then switch to the head. Every body has body armor now.

 

[eagle1462010]

Be aware that non-lethal options for self defense are often completely ineffective and leave the defender with a false sense of security.

The CED, commonly called a TASER, is only effective when two wires make body contact to center mass within a certain distance. Heavy clothing will defeat them. If the assailant makes sudden turning moves, the fragile wires will disengage. IF the shot is perfect (you only get one, two with some models), the charge only incapacitates the assailant for the 5-6 seconds the charge is active. There is no stun effect. Once the charge is depleted the assailant regains full muscle control and will probably be super-pissed off.

Police are trained to used TASERS to incapacitate a non-firearm wielding offender just long enough for a second officer to get in and cuff them And it's a very short window.

OC, or pepper, spray, is often ineffective against angry or substance affected people. The effects of the spray often won't kick in until after several minutes. OC spray requires you be within 2-3 yards of the assailant and get the stream of spray onto the assailant's face. Bug sprays, if they get into they eyes, can blur the vision, or force the assailant to close their eyes for several seconds. It won't incapacitate them.

If you're going up against an armed gunman, particularly one that has already demonstrated he will shoot and take victims, your best alternative is to continue shooting the assailant in center mass until they stop doing what they are doing. One shot is often, but not always sufficient, to achieve that objective.

I'm for any and all solutions. I prefer the weapon. But if not I'd rather they at least have a can of Wasp Spray. Get in the eyes they can't see for shit. 15 20 foot range. PKP will temp blind too. Range 15 to 20 feet..........can also blind.......If wearing a mask will still dust the mask to a point you can't see.

Added advantage is the teacher may get to close the range and ram that metal cylinder into his nuts til he sings like an OPERA STAR.

Bottom line.............Better than nothing but waiting to get shot in the head.

 

[eagle1462010]

No, you shoot two to center mass, then switch to the head. Every body has body armor now.

Stun him close and then put one under the chin.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Be aware that non-lethal options for self defense are often completely ineffective and leave the defender with a false sense of security.

The CED, commonly called a TASER, is only effective when two wires make body contact to center mass within a certain distance. Heavy clothing will defeat them. If the assailant makes sudden turning moves, the fragile wires will disengage. IF the shot is perfect (you only get one, two with some models), the charge only incapacitates the assailant for the 5-6 seconds the charge is active. There is no stun effect. Once the charge is depleted the assailant regains full muscle control and will probably be super-pissed off.

Police are trained to used TASERS to incapacitate a non-firearm wielding offender just long enough for a second officer to get in and cuff them And it's a very short window.

OC, or pepper, spray, is often ineffective against angry or substance affected people. The effects of the spray often won't kick in until after several minutes. OC spray requires you be within 2-3 yards of the assailant and get the stream of spray onto the assailant's face. Bug sprays, if they get into they eyes, can blur the vision, or force the assailant to close their eyes for several seconds. It won't incapacitate them.

If you're going up against an armed gunman, particularly one that has already demonstrated he will shoot and take victims, your best alternative is to continue shooting the assailant in center mass until they stop doing what they are doing. One shot is often, but not always sufficient, to achieve that objective.

I watched a PCP junkie take a taser in the chest. He looked down, laughed, ripped the probes out and took off running.

 

[fncceo]

No, you shoot two to center mass, then switch to the head. Every body has body armor now.

I wear body armor every day ... I wouldn't trust it to stop a paper clip shot with a rubber band. Actually, not true --- we have tried that and it seems to be effective.

I have not experienced it but, I have it on good authority that getting shot in the jacket, even if it doesn't fully penetrate the jacket, still hurts like a mo-fo. Much more than being tased or sprayed.

Personally, and this is because I have been trained that way, head shots are not practical for a moving assailant. The head moves more than any part of our body and the chances of a miss are exponentially increased. A missed shot will continue to be lethal for up to 1.000 yards and anyone in its way could be a casualty.

Putting a security round into the head of an offender already on the ground, while a really good way to be sure he won't get up, would end you up in court for excessive force.

 

[fncceo]

Stun him close and then put one under the chin.

If you have the gun ... why do you want the stupid TASER?

 

[eagle1462010]

If you have the gun ... why do you want the stupid TASER?

LOL

I'm giving multiple solutions............I'd rather have a gun if I didn't then I'd want to know other things to use.........

Scalding water will make you drop your gun. I might get shot trying but I'd have at least tried or have burnt the fuck out of you before I die.

They will not arm everyone............so put a can of wasp spray in your desk and a club.

 

[fncceo]

I'm for any and all solutions. I prefer the weapon. But if not I'd rather they at least have a can of Wasp Spray. Get in the eyes they can't see for shit. 15 20 foot range. PKP will temp blind too. Range 15 to 20 feet..........can also blind.......If wearing a mask will still dust the mask to a point you can't see.

Added advantage is the teacher may get to close the range and ram that metal cylinder into his nuts til he sings like an OPERA STAR.

Bottom line.............Better than nothing but waiting to get shot in the head.

I agree, no point in getting shot on your knees. Lots of things in a classroom will inflict damage (or so I remember from being in school). The odds are astronomically against you stopping the shooter. But, you won't go out like a punk.

However, I'd hate to see schools telling parents, "You kids are all safe now. We've issued each teacher with a can of Raid".

 

[fncceo]

Scalding water will make you drop your gun.

Wait right there while I boil this water ...

 

[eagle1462010]

I agree, no point in getting shot on your knees. Lots of things in a classroom will inflict damage (or so I remember from being in school). The odds are astronomically against you stopping the shooter. But, you won't go out like a punk.

However, I'd hate to see schools telling parents, "You kids are all safe now. We've issued each teacher with a can of Raid".

Why would we telegraph why the wasp spray is there. LOL

I get it in your eyes before you shoot me......I will make it to you and fuck you up. That's me. A old teacher not so much. Granny needs a gun.

 

[eagle1462010]

Wait right there while I boil this water ...

View attachment 650272

Ok... Go fuck yourself.

I'm ex military. Wanna fucking throw the fuck down.

I know you have posted you are ex LEO.......I don't give a shit.

I give small examples of anything to help defend yourself even if you die in the process.

As you said it's better than dying on your fucking knees.

Oh and by the way,. SCREW YOUR MOCKERY OF IT.

 

[fncceo]

Wanna fucking throw the fuck down.

When cops fight, we bring friends and gear. Fair fights are for suckers.

 

[eagle1462010]

When cops fight, we bring friends and gear. Fair fights are for suckers.

View attachment 650274

So. I still don't give a shit.

I told you to fuck off because you were trolling me.

Is that picture supposed to scare military........I don't fucking think so.

I have nothing against cops.............Just you for the moment being a dick head.

 

[eagle1462010]

I'll bring my friends.......have a blast Mr. Troll tonight that I usually agree with.

 

[fncceo]

So. I still don't give a shit.

I told you to fuck off because you were trolling me.

Is that picture supposed to scare military........I don't fucking think so.

I have nothing against cops.............Just you for the moment being a dick head.

I don't doubt your exemplary fighting skills. You probably have belts in martial arts in colors that only bees can see. I have no doubt that you're a fighting force to be reckoned with.

However, for the rest of us, who couldn't kick Steven Seagal's arse in a movie, we're discussing effective ways for a teacher in a classroom to deal with an active shooter.

It takes considerably less time to pull a firearm out of safe in the teacher's desk, load it, and point it at the door to fire at the first thing that comes in (hopefully not a first responder), than it does to sharpen a chair leg, boil up some water, or run down to Home Depot for a can of Raid.

My position is anything less than a loaded firearm is an ineffective option and feel-good measure to make people feel more secure when it does no such thing.

You are free to disagree with that position.

 

[eagle1462010]

I don't doubt your exemplary fighting skills. You probably have belts in martial arts in colors that only bees can see. I have no doubt that you're a fighting force to be reckoned with.

However, for the rest of us, who couldn't kick Steven Seagal's arse in a movie, we're discussing effective ways for a teacher in a classroom to deal with an active shooter.

It takes considerably less time to pull a firearm out of safe in the teacher's desk, load it, and point it at the door to fire at the first thing that comes in (hopefully not a first responder), than it does to sharpen a chair leg, boil up some water, or run down to Home Depot for a can of Raid.

My position is anything less than a loaded firearm is an ineffective option and feel-good measure to make people feel more secure when it does no such thing.

You are free to disagree with that position.

I disagree with your position and your mockery again.

preferred is a gun.........if not allowed I'd rather have a can of raid than nothing but my dick against a gun.

You do know they aren't gonna arm all the teachers.........in a few weeks this will die down and back to the same ole.

So if we are finished mocking each other. Why did they wait so long to go in again? Knowing children were being murdered.

 

[fncceo]

if not allowed I'd rather have a can of raid than nothing but my dick against a gun.

No argument. The important question is not what you're holding in your hand. The question to answer is why ... in a country with a Constitutional Right to carry a firearm ... is it NOT allowed?

In Texas for frak sake!

 

[eagle1462010]

No argument. The important question is not what you're holding in your hand. The question to answer is why ... in a country with a Constitutional Right to carry a firearm ... is it NOT allowed?

In Texas for frak sake!

I agree there............and think those willing in schools should have guns........And I'd think some self defense training and practice on top of it........

There is no argument there and never has been............other options are when the system screws you and doesn't allow.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Israeli gun laws are smarter.

In Israel, the school teachers carry guns.

 

[fncceo]

Why did they wait so long to go in again?

Don't know, wasn't there.

I can tell you that in the past few years, many departments, including mine, have changed policy. Instead of waiting for a tactical response.

In a very specific scenario, called Active Armed Offender where:

1. Offender is currently armed
2. Has demonstrated they will take victims (has fired shots)
3. And still has access to victims (not in an empty building)

The policy is, don't wait for SWAT, anyone from plain-clothed to rookie street cop, if you're armed, you go in, preferably in numbers (pairs working to clear rooms), and keep going until the AAO has been put down.

However, there are nearly 5,000 separate police departments in America, all with different policies, procedures, and resources. What policies this PD had in place is really up to their city government and leadership.

A note about this. In the training, all cops are told to wear hi-vis vests over their uniform. The reason being that in scenario after scenario, you chances of being shot by one of your fellow cops who is also in the building is a lot higher than being shot by the AAO. But, that's just part of the job.