The extent of the Political Damage is Stupendous.....more that I had ever imagined it would be

[justoffal]

I am going to go on record right now as agreeing with the Shut down of the Afghanistan War theatre. If you have followed or listened to even a handful of the congressional oversight hearings over the past 15-20 years on this matter you know that a continuing theme of theft, graft and lack of accountability has plagued this war effort from the very start. Let the buyer beware is a good place to start with that particular boondoggle. I heard a figure not too long ago....$85,000,000.00/day for the expenditures associated with fielding and maintaining our presence there...simply breathtaking.

Should we take the war to the terrorists? Yes! But Afghanistan was not an example of that strategy IMO...instead it was the perfect example how the Military Industrial complex has no peers when it comes to the absolute rape of US taxpayer money. Yes some military goals were achieved and it may be that we will have to field another force there in the future....but not the same way. Somebody had to pull the plug on this vampiric beast and it was Biden that did it....had Trump been re-elected he would also have done it. So to be settled about the issue I say it's good that it is gone for now.

However what did we see in the implementation and actuation of this effort? What appears to have happened here is that Politics usurped Military acumen and we saw the resulting cataclysm of thirteenth century butchery overtaking the modern era. Was there another way to do this???...well I don't know ... I am not a Military Logistician and would not even venture into the guessing associated with the subject. I keep reading an hearing however that there were indeed voices inside the Pentagon that were absolutely screaming about the possible results of this method of pulling out....seems they were correct.

Here is what I do know: I am simply stunned and amazed at the unified global condemnation of this action....I guess I have to reexamine my opinion of this event because what I am seeing, hearing and reading of it is an unwavering judgement of horrific even from the more liberal governments like France and Germany....it's astounding actually. Something I never would have expected which brings us to another crossroads and an important question. How deep is this Political Damage? So far it's massive but I don't think we even have a clue as to HOW massive just yet. Is it fair to make this judgement against the current POTUS? Not sure...but it is being made and that is the important point here. In a few short months This POTUS has managed to summon up one of the most epic events of the past 100 years and probably the next 100 even thinking about 9-11-2001..... This thing is Big....I mean really big....I mean History book Big and I am not really sure what to think of the results...But I have a gut feeling they are also going to be BIG.

JO

 

[surada]

I am going to go on record right now as agreeing with the Shut down of the Afghanistan War theatre. If you have followed or listened to even a handful of the congressional oversight hearings over the past 15-20 years on this matter you know that a continuing theme of theft, graft and lack of accountability has plagued this war effort from the very start. Let the buyer beware is a good place to start with that particular boondoggle. I heard a figure not too long ago....$85,000,000.00/day for the expenditures associated with fielding and maintaining our presence there...simply breathtaking.

Should we take the war to the terrorists? Yes! But Afghanistan was not an example of that strategy IMO...instead it was the perfect example how the Military Industrial complex has no peers when it comes to the absolute rape of US taxpayer money. Yes some military goals were achieved and it may be that we will have to field another force there in the future....but not the same way. Somebody had to pull the plug on this vampiric beast and it was Biden that did it....had Trump been re-elected he would also have done it. So to be settled about the issue I say it's good that it is gone for now.

However what did we see in the actuation of this effort? What appears to have happened here is that Politics usurped Military acumen and we saw the resulting cataclysm of thirteenth century butchery overtaking the modern era. Was there another way to do this???...well I don't know ... I am not a Military Logistician and would not even venture into the guessing associated with the subject. I keep reading an hearing however that there were indeed voices inside the Pentagon that were absolutely screaming about the possible results of this method of pulling out....seems they were correct.

Here is what I do know: I am simply stunned and amazed the unified global condemnation of this action....I guess I have to reexamine my opinion of this event because what I am seeing, hearing and reading of it is an unwavering judgement of horrific even from the more liberal governments like France and Germany....it's astounding actually. Something I never would have expected which brings us to another crossroads and an important question. How deep is this Political Damage? So far it's massive but I don't think we even have a clue as to HOW massive just yet. Is it fair to make this judgement against the current POTUS? Not sure...but it is being made and that is the important point here. In a few short months This POTUS has managed to summon up one of the most epic events of the past 100 years and probably the next 100..... This is Big....I mean really big and I am not really sure what to think of the results...But I have a gut feeling they are also going to be BIG.

JO

The British and the French are free to invade Afghanistan and start a whole new war if they choose. Were they upset when Trump met with the Taliban in Doha last year?

 

[harmonica]

..wars cost mucho $$$$...yes contractors charge robbery prices ......a big part of that is travel/shipping/transport/etc to and from Afghanistan--half a world away .......those fighter jets/etc cost mucho $$$$ ....these are not refrigerators..B52s drop mucho bombs in one sortie .....
......I just talked to a contractor that was over there--he said there was a lot of waste/etc--but you had the ''same'' shit in WW2
....

 

[justoffal]

..wars cost mucho $$$$...yes contractors charge robbery prices ......a big part of that is travel/shipping/transport/etc to and from Afghanistan--half a world away .......those fighter jets/etc cost mucho $$$$ ....these are not refrigerators..B52s drop mucho bombs in one sortie .....
......I just talked to a contractor that was over there--he said there was a lot of waste/etc--but you had the ''same'' shit in WW2
....

How much of those Pentagon procurements boomeranged back into the pockets of the committee members here? A lot of it is my guess....

 

[justoffal]

The British and the French are free to invade Afghanistan and start a whole new war if they choose. Were they upset when Trump met with the Taliban in Doha last year?

The actual facts of the matter seem to pale in comparison to the perception of it....in the end it is the perception that will move the cause and effect....not the facts. The Damage is amazingly bad.....and frankly I did not see this coming at all.

JO

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

..wars cost mucho $$$$...yes contractors charge robbery prices ......a big part of that is travel/shipping/transport/etc to and from Afghanistan--half a world away .......those fighter jets/etc cost mucho $$$$ ....these are not refrigerators..B52s drop mucho bombs in one sortie .....
......I just talked to a contractor that was over there--he said there was a lot of waste/etc--but you had the ''same'' shit in WW2
....

Talking about waste, just look at what poor people purchase.. Oreo's, packs of cigs, Schlitz Malt Liquor. Really good way of bringing yourself out of poverty...

 

[justoffal]

Talking about waste, just look at what poor people purchase.. Oreo's, packs of cigs, Schlitz Malt Liquor. Really good way of bringing yourself out of poverty...

100 years from now no one is going to be talking about Oreo cookies but they will be talking about the Afghanistan withdrawal. Now look....I'm going out of my way to get out of my political skin and just examine this thing for its intrinsic social impact. I more or less expected a lockstep back pat from the usual suspects not the scathing fire storm of criticism and screaming condemnation....it is an extraordinary departure from the political currents of the past several decades....almost like the titanic taking a sharp turn....it's really hard to estimate the full global reach this thing is having and hard to understand it as well. If I had to venture a guess I would say that we are looking at a massive resurgence of identity based nationalism. It is more or less tantamount to standing on the beach and being told a Tsunami is only five minutes out....

JO

 

[harmonica]

andaronjim KFC! that's expensive ''fast food'''

 

[Augustine_]

I am going to go on record right now as agreeing with the Shut down of the Afghanistan War theatre. If you have followed or listened to even a handful of the congressional oversight hearings over the past 15-20 years on this matter you know that a continuing theme of theft, graft and lack of accountability has plagued this war effort from the very start. Let the buyer beware is a good place to start with that particular boondoggle. I heard a figure not too long ago....$85,000,000.00/day for the expenditures associated with fielding and maintaining our presence there...simply breathtaking.

Should we take the war to the terrorists? Yes! But Afghanistan was not an example of that strategy IMO...instead it was the perfect example how the Military Industrial complex has no peers when it comes to the absolute rape of US taxpayer money. Yes some military goals were achieved and it may be that we will have to field another force there in the future....but not the same way. Somebody had to pull the plug on this vampiric beast and it was Biden that did it....had Trump been re-elected he would also have done it. So to be settled about the issue I say it's good that it is gone for now.

However what did we see in the implementation and actuation of this effort? What appears to have happened here is that Politics usurped Military acumen and we saw the resulting cataclysm of thirteenth century butchery overtaking the modern era. Was there another way to do this???...well I don't know ... I am not a Military Logistician and would not even venture into the guessing associated with the subject. I keep reading an hearing however that there were indeed voices inside the Pentagon that were absolutely screaming about the possible results of this method of pulling out....seems they were correct.

Here is what I do know: I am simply stunned and amazed at the unified global condemnation of this action....I guess I have to reexamine my opinion of this event because what I am seeing, hearing and reading of it is an unwavering judgement of horrific even from the more liberal governments like France and Germany....it's astounding actually. Something I never would have expected which brings us to another crossroads and an important question. How deep is this Political Damage? So far it's massive but I don't think we even have a clue as to HOW massive just yet. Is it fair to make this judgement against the current POTUS? Not sure...but it is being made and that is the important point here. In a few short months This POTUS has managed to summon up one of the most epic events of the past 100 years and probably the next 100 even thinking about 9-11-2001..... This thing is Big....I mean really big....I mean History book Big and I am not really sure what to think of the results...But I have a gut feeling they are also going to be BIG.

JO

Now we know how much the "deep state" needs to have us in a constant state of warfare

 

[shockedcanadian]

I am going to go on record right now as agreeing with the Shut down of the Afghanistan War theatre. If you have followed or listened to even a handful of the congressional oversight hearings over the past 15-20 years on this matter you know that a continuing theme of theft, graft and lack of accountability has plagued this war effort from the very start. Let the buyer beware is a good place to start with that particular boondoggle. I heard a figure not too long ago....$85,000,000.00/day for the expenditures associated with fielding and maintaining our presence there...simply breathtaking.

Should we take the war to the terrorists? Yes! But Afghanistan was not an example of that strategy IMO...instead it was the perfect example how the Military Industrial complex has no peers when it comes to the absolute rape of US taxpayer money. Yes some military goals were achieved and it may be that we will have to field another force there in the future....but not the same way. Somebody had to pull the plug on this vampiric beast and it was Biden that did it....had Trump been re-elected he would also have done it. So to be settled about the issue I say it's good that it is gone for now.

However what did we see in the implementation and actuation of this effort? What appears to have happened here is that Politics usurped Military acumen and we saw the resulting cataclysm of thirteenth century butchery overtaking the modern era. Was there another way to do this???...well I don't know ... I am not a Military Logistician and would not even venture into the guessing associated with the subject. I keep reading an hearing however that there were indeed voices inside the Pentagon that were absolutely screaming about the possible results of this method of pulling out....seems they were correct.

Here is what I do know: I am simply stunned and amazed at the unified global condemnation of this action....I guess I have to reexamine my opinion of this event because what I am seeing, hearing and reading of it is an unwavering judgement of horrific even from the more liberal governments like France and Germany....it's astounding actually. Something I never would have expected which brings us to another crossroads and an important question. How deep is this Political Damage? So far it's massive but I don't think we even have a clue as to HOW massive just yet. Is it fair to make this judgement against the current POTUS? Not sure...but it is being made and that is the important point here. In a few short months This POTUS has managed to summon up one of the most epic events of the past 100 years and probably the next 100 even thinking about 9-11-2001..... This thing is Big....I mean really big....I mean History book Big and I am not really sure what to think of the results...But I have a gut feeling they are also going to be BIG.

JO

I'm just a dumb Canadian who don't know nothing about nothing. I thought Trump could win this last election (I knew it would be close), and stated that if he lost it would be because of the mail-out votes.

Once Trump lost I was unequivical, "we are going to witness the greatest shift in global influence in our lifetimes, possibly ever in such a short period of time".

I never understood Harris as V.P. The result of Identity Politics (as Trump received the most black vote for GOP). This is what happens when powerful people and their MSM want "power by any means". I never understood the rapid interest in reversing so many Trump policies overnight.

The reaction from Germany when they signed the trade agreement with China after Biden won, gave me insight into what was going to follow. Global citizen reaction to Election Night in America created quite a division too. Americans would be surprised to know that most comments I saw were overwhelmingly in favor of Trump. Just the facts Jack. I was slightly surprised tbh.

No one doubted America having to leave Afghanistan, there are greatest threats elsewhere. To be so wrong about the Talibans ability to move in and the Afghan unwilling to fight said MUCH more about U.S intel and potentially even military malfeasance over 20 years. U.S allies had to think, "are we grossly over estimating Americas capabilities and competence"?

Then leaving all the military machinery behind created greater problems for Americans allies and their own military capabilities now that all the bad guys have choppers and drones to reverse engineer.

I've always said that I root for America to succeed. I've done all I can with one hand tied behind my back in Canada to convince our citizens that America isn't perfect, but, it's the best ally to have and the best system for all of us.

 

[asaratis]

I am going to go on record right now as agreeing with the Shut down of the Afghanistan War theatre. If you have followed or listened to even a handful of the congressional oversight hearings over the past 15-20 years on this matter you know that a continuing theme of theft, graft and lack of accountability has plagued this war effort from the very start. Let the buyer beware is a good place to start with that particular boondoggle. I heard a figure not too long ago....$85,000,000.00/day for the expenditures associated with fielding and maintaining our presence there...simply breathtaking.

Should we take the war to the terrorists? Yes! But Afghanistan was not an example of that strategy IMO...instead it was the perfect example how the Military Industrial complex has no peers when it comes to the absolute rape of US taxpayer money. Yes some military goals were achieved and it may be that we will have to field another force there in the future....but not the same way. Somebody had to pull the plug on this vampiric beast and it was Biden that did it....had Trump been re-elected he would also have done it. So to be settled about the issue I say it's good that it is gone for now.

However what did we see in the actuation of this effort? What appears to have happened here is that Politics usurped Military acumen and we saw the resulting cataclysm of thirteenth century butchery overtaking the modern era. Was there another way to do this???...well I don't know ... I am not a Military Logistician and would not even venture into the guessing associated with the subject. I keep reading an hearing however that there were indeed voices inside the Pentagon that were absolutely screaming about the possible results of this method of pulling out....seems they were correct.

Here is what I do know: I am simply stunned and amazed at the unified global condemnation of this action....I guess I have to reexamine my opinion of this event because what I am seeing, hearing and reading of it is an unwavering judgement of horrific even from the more liberal governments like France and Germany....it's astounding actually. Something I never would have expected which brings us to another crossroads and an important question. How deep is this Political Damage? So far it's massive but I don't think we even have a clue as to HOW massive just yet. Is it fair to make this judgement against the current POTUS? Not sure...but it is being made and that is the important point here. In a few short months This POTUS has managed to summon up one of the most epic events of the past 100 years and probably the next 100 even thinking about 9-11-2001..... This thing is Big....I mean really big....I mean History book Big and I am not really sure what to think of the results...But I have a gut feeling they are also going to be BIG.

JO

It is enormously big because it was extremely badly done by an inept POTUS. Whether it was a result of Biden's complete incompetence or his being ill-advised regarding strategic planning, assuming his abandonment of Bagram was part of his advice from the Joint Chiefs of Staff remains to be seen. I await sworn testimony from the Joint Chiefs on that. They're likely all afraid of saying anything in opposition to what Biden has already claimed (that they all agreed on it).

That was not his only blunder. He:

• He set a date certain​
• He held to it in spite of the Taliban's breach of the original agreement​
• He left Americans and allies behind​
• He encouraged the President of Afghanistan to downplay the speed of the Taliban takeover​

...and in the end, Biden had the audacity to claim the operation was a success. It was a massive failure.

 

[surada]

..wars cost mucho $$$$...yes contractors charge robbery prices ......a big part of that is travel/shipping/transport/etc to and from Afghanistan--half a world away .......those fighter jets/etc cost mucho $$$$ ....these are not refrigerators..B52s drop mucho bombs in one sortie .....
......I just talked to a contractor that was over there--he said there was a lot of waste/etc--but you had the ''same'' shit in WW2
....

No one bids in a war zone.. Its strictly cost plus.

 

[shockedcanadian]

It is enormously big because it was extremely badly done by an inept POTUS. Whether it was a result of Biden's complete incompetence or his being ill-advised regarding strategic planning, assuming his abandonment of Bagram was part of his advice from the Joint Chiefs of Staff remains to be seen. I await sworn testimony from the Joint Chiefs on that. They're likely all afraid of saying anything in opposition to what Biden has already claimed (that they all agreed on it).

That was not his only blunder. He:

• He set a date certain​
• He held to it in spite of the Taliban's breach of the original agreement​
• He left Americans and allies behind​
• He encouraged the President of Afghanistan to downplay the speed of the Taliban takeover​

...and in the end, Biden had the audacity to claim the operation was a success. It was a massive failure.

To be honest, I'd feel MUCH better if American intelligence were adamant and consistent in their message about how quickly Afghanistan might fall but Biden ignored them rather than them NOT being right and Biden agreeing with them and withdrawing as he did.

We live and die through Intelligence agencies. I have never claimed to be the smartest guy, but I am far more cautious and street smart than I used to be. If you have unimpressive, political hacks making decisions in the Intelligence community, you are in deep trouble.

Clinton didn't listen to the C.I.A when they warned him about the rise of China (WTO) and terrorists. A few months later the attack on the WTC occurred n the basement, which thankfully failed when the structure held. We al know what happened a decade later.

Here is the issue that America faces, and it's far worse than when Trump was in office. You can't just re-do the election, Biden will be president for three more years. With Trump, the Establishment felt they could impeach him as they were confident in Pences abilities.

He made a decision. That alone isn't impeachable, no matter how much we disagree with it.

 

[Crepitus]

I am going to go on record right now as agreeing with the Shut down of the Afghanistan War theatre. If you have followed or listened to even a handful of the congressional oversight hearings over the past 15-20 years on this matter you know that a continuing theme of theft, graft and lack of accountability has plagued this war effort from the very start. Let the buyer beware is a good place to start with that particular boondoggle. I heard a figure not too long ago....$85,000,000.00/day for the expenditures associated with fielding and maintaining our presence there...simply breathtaking.

Should we take the war to the terrorists? Yes! But Afghanistan was not an example of that strategy IMO...instead it was the perfect example how the Military Industrial complex has no peers when it comes to the absolute rape of US taxpayer money. Yes some military goals were achieved and it may be that we will have to field another force there in the future....but not the same way. Somebody had to pull the plug on this vampiric beast and it was Biden that did it....had Trump been re-elected he would also have done it. So to be settled about the issue I say it's good that it is gone for now.

However what did we see in the implementation and actuation of this effort? What appears to have happened here is that Politics usurped Military acumen and we saw the resulting cataclysm of thirteenth century butchery overtaking the modern era. Was there another way to do this???...well I don't know ... I am not a Military Logistician and would not even venture into the guessing associated with the subject. I keep reading an hearing however that there were indeed voices inside the Pentagon that were absolutely screaming about the possible results of this method of pulling out....seems they were correct.

Here is what I do know: I am simply stunned and amazed at the unified global condemnation of this action....I guess I have to reexamine my opinion of this event because what I am seeing, hearing and reading of it is an unwavering judgement of horrific even from the more liberal governments like France and Germany....it's astounding actually. Something I never would have expected which brings us to another crossroads and an important question. How deep is this Political Damage? So far it's massive but I don't think we even have a clue as to HOW massive just yet. Is it fair to make this judgement against the current POTUS? Not sure...but it is being made and that is the important point here. In a few short months This POTUS has managed to summon up one of the most epic events of the past 100 years and probably the next 100 even thinking about 9-11-2001..... This thing is Big....I mean really big....I mean History book Big and I am not really sure what to think of the results...But I have a gut feeling they are also going to be BIG.

JO

Public option is as fickle as the wind if not more so.

This is a big deal right now because everyone has been waiting to pounce on the first thing that didn't go perfectly. Even the so called main stream media that Republicans are convinced doesn't show bad press about Democrats. So this is a big deal right now, but it will be forgotten in a month if not a week.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Public option is as fickle as the wind if not more so.

This is a big deal right now because everyone has been waiting to pounce on the first thing that didn't go perfectly. Even the so called main stream media that Republicans are convinced doesn't show bad press about Democrats. So this is a big deal right now, but it will be forgotten in a month if not a week.

It won't be forgotten by the International Community. Ironic, since so many proclaimed that Trump had ruined Americas image and you were now back.

Nothing Trump did comes close to this in terms of damage. I never wish America to fail, but this withdrawal went about as bad as possible, It ranks up there with historic failures.

 

[Crepitus]

It won't be forgotten by the International Community.

Yeah, it will. They want to forget it. They want America back as a world leader.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Yeah, it will. They want to forget it. They want America back as a world leader.

I agree with a caveat. There are two Super Powers in the world today. Similar situation as the 1980s. The difference is today that China is FAR more accepted economically and even through global tourism and corporate movement of jobs there.

Thus, they will be forced to make a decision, "which way do we go to prosperity and our own long term success?".

Bidens team will have to go harder to regain faith and keep allies on side. The sudden Japanese PM resignation could be a bad sign, or, it could be a positive sign if the right replacement is elected.

I believe much will be revealed by the upcoming election there.

 

[Smiley321]

It is enormously big because it was extremely badly done by an inept POTUS. Whether it was a result of Biden's complete incompetence or his being ill-advised regarding strategic planning, assuming his abandonment of Bagram was part of his advice from the Joint Chiefs of Staff remains to be seen. I await sworn testimony from the Joint Chiefs on that. They're likely all afraid of saying anything in opposition to what Biden has already claimed (that they all agreed on it).

That was not his only blunder. He:

• He set a date certain​
• He held to it in spite of the Taliban's breach of the original agreement​
• He left Americans and allies behind​
• He encouraged the President of Afghanistan to downplay the speed of the Taliban takeover​

...and in the end, Biden had the audacity to claim the operation was a success. It was a massive failure.

Yeah, the stain of incompetence may stick to Biden, He can't do anything well. Getting out was going to be a sh*tstorm regardless, Bush ensured that when he took ownership of that hellhole. Tens of thousands of people dependent on our presence there. It's only right that Biden gets to hold the bag, after he spent 2020 blaming Trump for Covid.

 

[Lastamender]

Yeah, it will. They want to forget it. They want America back as a world leader.

With Biden in control? You have to be kidding. They want Obama back and it is what they are getting. The US grows weaker everyday. Globalists are having a field day.

 

[surada]

It won't be forgotten by the International Community. Ironic, since so many proclaimed that Trump had ruined Americas image and you were now back.

Nothing Trump did comes close to this in terms of damage. I never wish America to fail, but this withdrawal went about as bad as possible, It ranks up there with historic failures.

Come now.. The war was lost years ago.