The end of the autism/vaccine debate?

[2Parties]

Odd conspiracy I've wondered about: What if the government is doing an experiment on some people? What if 99% of the vaccines are safe and what the government claims about them is true, but 1% are filled with something that screws some kids up?

It wouldn't be the first time, and surely wouldn't be the last time they'd preform experiments like this.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

SOrry bout that,

1. I'm not backpedalling, I'm ******* still outraged that there are morons like you ******* bastards!
2. I do infact blame all you ******* pediatricians, health departments, and governmant agencies; All you mother fuckers are ******* *GUILTY*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh you're not backpedaling, you're just changing your uninformed ideas from "50 shots" to something much less than 50. Right.

When you say that you're "outraged that there are morons like you ******* bastards", are you referring to doctor or researchers or some other group of highly educated highly experienced group that uses evidence to make informed decisions? Which highly skilled morons are you referring to?



1. Yes, *ANY* mother ****** who condones overlaoding children with these shots!!! are you in the medical trades? Because I blame all you mother fuckers!!!!





See this is what makes you a moron and bad parent. You see smart people can and DO change their minds when evidence is presented before them. A reasonable person would see the evidence, and drop their personal bias to correct their understanding. You, on the other hand, lack the capacity for such insight and adaptivity for higher learning. I'd guess your education stopped at the high school level. Maybe community college.



2. There is no proof that all these shots do not cause autism.

4. *OVER DOSAGE OF VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM*
5. Whats insane, is America has been burning one child out of a hundred and fifty for twenty years, and still those *GUILTY BASTARDS* keep shooting these chidren up with all these ******* shots, and are too ******* stupid to see it.
6. *YOU GUILTY BASTRDS*

Well the problem with your well rehearsed ignorance is that when other concerned parents got scared and refused to get their children vaccinated, their children were diagnosed with autism AT THE EXACT SAME RATE as those who received the vaccines.






3. ******* bullshit!!!!!




So to recap: both groups were equally at risk for autism, and the unvaccinated group was at risk for deadly diseases as well. Yes, there is reproducible evidence that supports this, but something as insignificant as facts seem to not phase your worldview.

It's hilarious because I claim you wouldn't change your mind regardless of what evidence there is. You respond by saying there's no evidence. When I say there is evidence which has been clearly documented and can be confirmed, you claim it's not true, proving the first point I made about you lacking the capacity for insight and adaptivity for higher learning. You just proved me right!

4. ******* blarney, the ******* vaccines are causing autism and some day this will be known for a fact, I'm just one of many who are pissed by those in the medical fields actively involved with this *Junk Science* on our children!
5. The fact that I said 50, or 60, or whatever the ****, I don't keep count to how many the exact number actually is, but I did search it, and it looks like its something like 36 or something, and I bet thats still not all that is required, wheres you ******* numbers *BUCKWHEAT*!!!

Is buckwheat a slang curse or racial slur or bad name or something? What does it mean?

Just curious though: how do you explain the kids who didn't get vaccinated and who still got autism at the exact same rate as the kids who did? Is the delusion that the people lied? Or the researchers lied? Or that someone "infected" the unvaccinated kids so that later verification of the facts always determined they had autism? How do you explain the evidence that shows you to be wrong?

6. Also my two year old has only had 4 shots, which makes her way behind,..... and I plan on keeping her behind too!!!! so **** you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You kid is "behind" for having a parent like you in the first place.

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. I see no ******* evidense *BUCKWHEAT*!!!!!
2. I see you saying theres some evidence, but I ain't seeing it.
3. You head on down there with your child then, and get him/her shot full of vaccines.
4. I will protect my child from ******* people like you!
5. I guess we agree to disagree.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Look here, I was punching around on my computer, on google and found this little jewel.
2. Seems the Amish who do not vaccinate, have *ZERO* cases of autism.
3. Those amish who do vaccinate, have the same rates of autism as the rest of the nation who vaccinate.
4. ******** CASE CLOSED MOTHER FUCKERS*!!!!!!!
5. Just like when I was a kid, no one got autism, lets go back to that you, ******** MORONS*!!!
6. Link and sample:NO AUTISM FOR UNVACCINATED AMISH?


"NO AUTISM FOR UNVACCINATED AMISH?
The Age of Autism: 'A pretty big secret'
UPI | December 7, 2005
By DAN OLMSTED

It's a far piece from the horse-and-buggies of Lancaster County, Pa., to the cars and freeways of Cook County, Ill.

But thousands of children cared for by Homefirst Health Services in metropolitan Chicago have at least two things in common with thousands of Amish children in rural Lancaster: They have never been vaccinated. And they don't have autism.

"We have a fairly large practice. We have about 30,000 or 35,000 children that we've taken care of over the years, and I don't think we have a single case of autism in children delivered by us who never received vaccines," said Dr. Mayer Eisenstein, Homefirst's medical director who founded the practice in 1973. Homefirst doctors have delivered more than 15,000 babies at home, and thousands of them have never been vaccinated.

The few autistic children Homefirst sees were vaccinated before their families became patients, Eisenstein said. "I can think of two or three autistic children who we've delivered their mother's next baby, and we aren't really totally taking care of that child -- they have special care needs. But they bring the younger children to us. I don't have a single case that I can think of that wasn't vaccinated."

The autism rate in Illinois public schools is 38 per 10,000, according to state Education Department data; the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention puts the national rate of autism spectrum disorders at 1 in 166 -- 60 per 10,000.

"We do have enough of a sample," Eisenstein said. "The numbers are too large to not see it. We would absolutely know. We're all family doctors. If I have a child with autism come in, there's no communication. It's frightening. You can't touch them. It's not something that anyone would miss."

No one knows what causes autism, but federal health authorities say it isn't childhood immunizations. Some parents and a small minority of doctors and scientists, however, assert vaccines are responsible.

This column has been looking for autism in never-vaccinated U.S. children in an effort to shed light on the issue. We went to Chicago to meet with Eisenstein at the suggestion of a reader, and we also visited Homefirst's office in northwest suburban Rolling Meadows. Homefirst has four other offices in the Chicago area and a total of six doctors. "

7. Also people who home schooled and didn't get thier children vaccinated, hey guess what, *ZERO* cases of ******** AUTISM*!!!!!


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[geauxtohell]

1. I see no ******* evidense *BUCKWHEAT*!!!!!

Oh, the irony.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Sorry bout that,


1. I see no ******* evidense *BUCKWHEAT*!!!!!
2. I see you saying theres some evidence, but I ain't seeing it.
3. You head on down there with your child then, and get him/her shot full of vaccines.
4. I will protect my child from ******* people like you!
5. I guess we agree to disagree.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

I can only assume "buckwheat" is some hick attempt at insult, but it's best the other person knows what the insult means for it to be effective.

We don't agree to disagree. You're a moron. The evidence is clear.
-- Immunization Safety Review: Vaccines and Autism -- NCBI Bookshelf
Lancet retracts 12-year-old article linking autism to MMR vaccines
Good but long overview of the entire thing: Mercury, Vaccines, and Autism
Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines and Autistic Spectrum Disorder: A Critical Review of Published Original Data -- Parker et al. 114 (3): 793 -- Pediatrics
Association between thimerosal-containing vaccine ... [JAMA. 2003] - PubMed result

1. Look here, I was punching around on my computer, on google and found this little jewel.
2. Seems the Amish who do not vaccinate, have *ZERO* cases of autism.
3. Those amish who do vaccinate, have the same rates of autism as the rest of the nation who vaccinate.
4. ******** CASE CLOSED MOTHER FUCKERS*!!!!!!!
5. Just like when I was a kid, no one got autism, lets go back to that you, ******** MORONS*!!!
6. Link and sample:NO AUTISM FOR UNVACCINATED AMISH?

I see your opinion there from 5 years ago says that. Unfortunately, that myth has been debunked countless times.
Autism Among the Amish: A Vaccination Myth Deconstructed
Do The Amish Vaccinate? Indeed They Do, AND Their Autism Rates May be Lower
Opposing Views: Myth: "Amish Don't Have Autism"


There are studies that compare children who get vaccines with thimerasal against those who are vaccinated without the additive, there are studies of children who are vaccinated against those not vaccinated, and there are studies of the studies to make sure no one study is skewed. The reason you're not seeing the evidence is because your eyes are closed. These are peer reviewed scrutinized papers published in multiple countries across the world in some of the most prestigious scientific journals. Your source is a BLOG with information I just debunked as completely fictitious.

So tell me: why do you think you are smarter or in a better position to draw conclusions than all these reports, all of these direct comparisons of vaccinated vs unvaccinated children? Do you still think the world is flat too because the horizon looks so?

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. I read your links, and all they are saying is, *We Double Down*.
2. No proof the vaccines don't cause *AUTISM*!!!!!!!
3. One of your links tries to attack the Amish link I supplied, its a failure!!!
4. Why does it say this?


"Wakefield, Andrew and others THE LANCET Ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia, non-specific colitis, and pervasive developmental disorder in children 1998 Feb 28;351(9103):637-41"

5. Same man who started this debate, back when he agreed with you, in 1998, but wrote a paper on just how bad the MMR was causing autism in this century, can you get some new links?.
6. The medical commuity are all sticking together on this, and as we know already, there is a court case in America that went for the *VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM*, with a hefty payout going to the winners.
7. Problem is your holding onto old ******* information, back when all the data was scewed towards your side of the argument.
8. Those times are gone mother ******!
9. The times they are a changing moron, soon we only vaccinate the medical commuities children with MMR, and change the way we vaccinate *ALL* other children.
10. Just to make it fair, and seeing this is what you fuckers believe, make your children eat it!!!


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Further reading your links, this links bullshit!!!
2. Do The Amish Vaccinate? Indeed They Do, AND Their Autism Rates May be Lower

"The Amish do vaccinate. But in other ways they live very differently from the rest of us. I can't help but wonder whether they have a great deal to teach us relative to our children with autism. "


*SOME DO SOME DON'T*, *THEM WHO DON'T, DON'T GET AUTISM*!!!!!!!!


3. Yeah they ride horse and buggie, and don't get thier kids there on time to get over dosed with all the ******* shots you prescribe and when you fuckers prescribe them!!!!!!



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[SmarterThanHick]

1. I read your links, and all they are saying is, *We Double Down*.
2. No proof the vaccines don't cause *AUTISM*!!!!!!!
3. One of your links tries to attack the Amish link I supplied, its a failure!!!
4. Why does it say this?

Clearly you did not actually read any of the links if that's all you thought they said. One of them was an overview of how Wakefield conducted unethical research. One of them is a study directly comparing vaccinated vs unvaccinated children and finding both groups get autism at the same rate. There is nothing unclear about those findings. Another is a study that investigates thimerosal vaccinationed children vs vaccinated children who didn't receive the additive, which ALSO found both groups got autism at the same rate.

There is no uncertainty or lack of clarity in these findings. So it's obvious to me that you in no way actually read the evidence. And then you say you've never seen the evidence because you didn't read it, and then you say none exists. Exactly as I said before: your eyes are closed.

"Wakefield, Andrew and others THE LANCET Ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia, non-specific colitis, and pervasive developmental disorder in children 1998 Feb 28;351(9103):637-41"

5. Same man who started this debate, back when he agreed with you, in 1998, but wrote a paper on just how bad the MMR was causing autism in this century, can you get some new links?.

Yes, this was the paper by Wakefield conducted under unethical standards, which was RETRACTED by the journal LANCET, and cost Wakefield his medical license. Again, had you actually READ the links I gave you, you would have seen the SECOND LINK goes over that. Hell you could have figured it out even if you didn't click on the link but instead just read the title.

This is why you're a moron and a bad parent.

7. Problem is your holding onto old ******* information, back when all the data was scewed towards your side of the argument.
8. Those times are gone mother ******!
9. The times they are a changing moron, soon we only vaccinate the medical commuities children with MMR, and change the way we vaccinate *ALL* other children.

This would be a valid argument IF you were smart enough to actually look at the dates on these articles. Note the one you provided, the very same one which was retracted and cost the author his medical license, was from 1998. Note how ALL of my links came after that time. This may be a difficult concept for you to grasp, but that means YOUR information is older, outdated, and inaccurate.

So your inane idea that new information shows vaccines cause autism is completely false, as I just proved. Not only is it wrong, it's exactly backwards: YOU are using outdated information, and I am providing link after link of newer information that agrees with me and debunks you.

Now what did I say a moron was? Oh yes: someone who lacks the insight and adaptive capacity to change their viewpoint once new evidence is presented before them. I'm guessing, despite just proving yourself wrong, you still won't change your mind. You meet the criteria.

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Wakefield was rail roaded, we all know that now.
2. Just promise me after *ALL* the truth comes out about how MMR is causing Autism, that your children will remain taking it, and thier children too.
3. Yeah, times ticking on all this crap you bastards are prescribing!!!


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,



1. The cases against all the dosages that they pile up on the children will over throw all the ******* medical experts.
2. Sooner or later they method will fall.
3. And we Americans and other nations will relize that if you over dose children, they will get burnt.
4. And then the medical and government will slow down the pace and spread out the delivery of all these vaccines.
5. Anyone have a problem with this?
6. *BRING IT MOTHER FUCKERS*!!!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/11/health/main2911164.shtml


"The parents of 12-year-old Michelle Cedillo asked a federal court Monday to find that their child's autism was caused by common childhood vaccines, a precedent-setting case that could pave the way for thousands of autistic children to receive compensation from a government fund set up to help people injured by the shots.

Wearing noise-canceling headphones, Michelle, of Yuma, Ariz., was brought into the courtroom in a wheelchair at the start of the proceedings before the U.S. Court of Federal Claims. She stayed only a short time.

Her parents, Theresa and Michael Cedillo, allege a preservative called thimerosal that had been used in vaccines weakened their daughter's immune system and prevented her body from clearing the measles virus after she was immunized for the disease at age 15 months.

Today, Michelle suffers from a litany of health problems, including severe autism, inflammatory bowel disease, glaucoma and epilepsy.

"We hope to find out what happened and hopefully get the help she needs," said Theresa Cedillo, who takes care of her daughter full time at home.

Special Master George Hastings Jr. thanked the family for allowing theirs to be the first of nine test cases that will help guide the resolution of some of the nearly 5,000 similar claims lodged with the government."



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[SmarterThanHick]

1. Wakefield was rail roaded, we all know that now.
2. Just promise me after *ALL* the truth comes out about how MMR is causing Autism, that your children will remain taking it, and thier children too.
3. Yeah, times ticking on all this crap you bastards are prescribing!!!

There is no mystery to how and why Wakefield's paper is unethical. He didn't follow the same standards as everyone else, basing a conclusion off a small number of cherry picked children. It's easy to see how his methods were just plain wrong, if you read the link I provided...... which you didn't.

So the truth remains that when kids are divided into two groups, one which receives vaccinations and one which doesn't, both groups get autism at the same rate. This is fact. This has been demonstrated through numerous publications.

And IF in the future some different factual evidence does surface, I will change my opinion. But as the score stands now, we have one unethical publication that is clearly misleading against countless reproductions of Wakefield's model using legitimate scientific reasoning that completely disprove him and show without any doubt that there is no correlation between vaccination and autism.

Given those FACTS, I'm going to side with the evidence, and you can continue your completely unsupported conspiracy theory that requires the following events to work:

1. Wakefield's paper was really valid
2. Wakefield was incorrectly discredited
3. All the aspects of his paper which appear unethical and cherry picked are somehow valid scientific methods
4. All the standardized ethical research that examined this topic was fabricated
5. All the children who didn't get vaccinated but still got autism were "infected" to appear AS IF things were equal
6. Independent public health organizations around the world are in on the conspiracy
7. Governments from around the world are also in on the conspiracy
8. But hicks such as yourself with no scientific education or experience figured out the "truth" all along

Seeing as you're incapable of reading evidence while concurrently claiming there is no evidence, let's see if your attention span can last a minute and a half on watching something:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo&feature=related]YouTube - Penn and Teller on Vaccinations[/ame]

 

[eots]

anyone that uses penn and teller in a debate on anything has just lost the debate

 

[SmarterThanHick]

I think you mean hitler. I am not familiar with their usual musings, but I saw this elsewhere on the forum, and on this issue, the example is spot on: vaccines don't cause autism, and but even IF they did, lack of vaccination is a much worse fate from a public health perspective.

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Oh you will have to change your mind.
2. When the medical quacks change thiers.
3. Oh yes, be ******* safe, go with the crowd.
4. I will not go with the crowd on this issue, never!
5. Pin Head and Teller, are just ******* clowns, and thier claim is, *Look at what we are preventing!*, thats how most of the medical industry looks at this issue.
6. I ******* don't!!!!!
7. What is needed is the health departments need to slow down the exposure, no more combo drugs!!!!!
8. No combo drugs with other shots, where they pile on many shots in one day!!!!
9. This is the *CRUX* of the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10. And sooner or later we will have to win this, for the childrens sakes!!!!!!!!!
11. The way the system is now, from a administer point of view from doctors and nurses, is, *Get The ******* Kids In Here And Shoot The **** Out Of Them So We Dont Have To See Them Again For Awhile, Lets Get This ******* Over People!!!!!*, the children get too much, and burn out.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[eots]

I think you mean hitler. I am not familiar with their usual musings, but I saw this elsewhere on the forum, and on this issue, the example is spot on: vaccines don't cause autism, and but even IF they did, lack of vaccination is a much worse fate from a public health perspective.

you say lack of vaccination..how vague..just because vaccines are able to protect against some illnesses does not mean that we sit and dine at the all you can eat vaccine buffet..and these statistics of benefits attribute all improvement in lessing the instances of these illness to vaccination when other factors may of significantly contributed to lowering rates of contraction and mortality from these illnesses

 

[Againsheila]

SOrry bout that,

1. I'm not backpedalling, I'm ******* still outraged that there are morons like you ******* bastards!
2. I do infact blame all you ******* pediatricians, health departments, and governmant agencies; All you mother fuckers are ******* *GUILTY*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh you're not backpedaling, you're just changing your uninformed ideas from "50 shots" to something much less than 50. Right.

When you say that you're "outraged that there are morons like you ******* bastards", are you referring to doctor or researchers or some other group of highly educated highly experienced group that uses evidence to make informed decisions? Which highly skilled morons are you referring to?

3. I am not ever going to change my mind.

See this is what makes you a moron and bad parent. You see smart people can and DO change their minds when evidence is presented before them. A reasonable person would see the evidence, and drop their personal bias to correct their understanding. You, on the other hand, lack the capacity for such insight and adaptivity for higher learning. I'd guess your education stopped at the high school level. Maybe community college.

4. *OVER DOSAGE OF VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM*
5. Whats insane, is America has been burning one child out of a hundred and fifty for twenty years, and still those *GUILTY BASTARDS* keep shooting these chidren up with all these ******* shots, and are too ******* stupid to see it.
6. *YOU GUILTY BASTRDS*

Well the problem with your well rehearsed ignorance is that when other concerned parents got scared and refused to get their children vaccinated, their children were diagnosed with autism AT THE EXACT SAME RATE as those who received the vaccines. So to recap: both groups were equally at risk for autism, and the unvaccinated group was at risk for deadly diseases as well. Yes, there is reproducible evidence that supports this, but something as insignificant as facts seem to not phase your worldview.

Do you happen to have a site for that source? I have NEVER heard that.

 

[geauxtohell]

I think you mean hitler. I am not familiar with their usual musings, but I saw this elsewhere on the forum, and on this issue, the example is spot on: vaccines don't cause autism, and but even IF they did, lack of vaccination is a much worse fate from a public health perspective.

you say lack of vaccination..how vague..just because vaccines are able to protect against some illnesses does not mean that we sit and dine at the all you can eat vaccine buffet..and these statistics of benefits attribute all improvement in lessing the instances of these illness to vaccination when other factors may of significantly contributed to lowering rates of contraction and mortality from these illnesses

Which ones would you cut out and why?

 

[eots]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIq_0Q7adZk]YouTube - Tony Perkins on Mandatory HPV Vaccinations[/ame]

 

[eots]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1z7KSEnyxw[/ame]