The Cuts and the Constitution

DGS49

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Our "newspapers" and other news sources are flooded these days with stories of events, benefits, services, and wonders that either will or might not happen because of President Trump's campaign to...what would you say?...take a chainsaw to Federal government spending. The linked article is just one of thousands like it.

It is interesting to me that none of the stories mentions the proverbial "elephant in the room," that beast being the uniform unconstitutionality of all the stuff that is being deleted from the Federal cornucopia of goodies.

The Constitutional matter is not complicated, and should be familiar to anyone who remained awake in their high school Civics class. A bit of truncated history might be illuminating in this regard.

When the Articles of Confederation had been deemed a failure and our Founders got together to write a new constitution, there was a fundamental principle that they agreed on. The 13 "states" (former colonies) wanted to retain their individual sovereignty to the greatest extent possible, while ceding certain powers to a central government where it made sense to do so. So the central government took over, for example, the obligation of raising and funding an army and navy, establishing currency, establishing and maintaining the post office (and post roads), handling patents and copyrights, and so on - the tasks that made sense for the common government, while leaving "everything else" to the individual States.

The essence of this compromise can be found in two places: Section 8 of Article I (a listing of Congress' powers), and the Tenth Amendment (the formal declaration that all the other powers were retained by the States).

So to this day, the States have control over real estate law, commercial law*, estates and trusts, criminal law, civil law, and so on. The powers of the Federal government are LIMITED, which your Civics teacher undoubtedly repeated on many occasions.

But politicians are both predictable and evil, and starting in the 1930's the U.S. Congress has slowly eroded these principles, getting involved in a giant pile of matters that, technically, they have no "power" to get involved in. Today, we look at EDUCATION as a main point of contention, but the broad issue also involves healthcare, housing, feeding the poor, saving the planet, and so on. In fact, most of the discretionary spending that Congress does comes OUTSIDE its powers under Article I, and is thus unconstitutional.

A good illustration of the early machinations dealing with this conundrum is the creation of Social Security. Congress has no power to create or fund a compulsory national retirement program. In effect, the Democrats in Congress made a deal with the newly-Left-Wing Supreme Court. Rather than funding SS benefits with "tax" dollars, they created a fictitious "trust fund" that was kept solvent with "payroll taxes" (FICA), and the retirement benefits were taken from this trust fund - an arrangement that remains the case until this very day. Indeed, if the SS trust fund runs dry, Congress CANNOT make up the difference with "tax" dollars, and SS would have to go on a pay-as-you-go basis, paying benefits out of current FICA contributions.

Getting back to the point, virtually all of the program cuts that DOGE is raising today are reductions or elimination of programs that are unconstitutional. Nothing that is done by the Department of Education is authorized by Article I...not the student grants and loans, not the special lunch and other programs, none of it. And most of what it is doing will not be eliminated, merely shifted to other Federal Departments. For example, the college student grants and loans will probably be administered by the Department or Revenue. Enforcement of anti-discrimination laws will revert to DoJ. And so on.

I want to know when they will get around to TSA, an agency that apparently spends more of their taxpayer-funded effort at internal union work than they do screening passengers.

So as you read these heart-rending articles about all the free stuff and goodies that DOGE is threatening to take away, keep in mind that all of it is unconstitutional anyway, so no harm done(?).

___________________________
* U.S. commercial law is an interesting case. It would have been a chaotic situation if every single state had its own code of commercial laws, but Congress had no power to pass commercial legislation. National companies would have had a nightmare of complying with 50 different sets of State laws. So the states GOT TOGETHER, believe it or not, and agreed on a comprehensive set of laws, and all of them individually passed those laws - the same in every State. It's called the Uniform Commercial Code.
 

Our "newspapers" and other news sources are flooded these days with stories of events, benefits, services, and wonders that either will or might not happen because of President Trump's campaign to...what would you say?...take a chainsaw to Federal government spending. The linked article is just one of thousands like it.

It is interesting to me that none of the stories mentions the proverbial "elephant in the room," that beast being the uniform unconstitutionality of all the stuff that is being deleted from the Federal cornucopia of goodies.

The Constitutional matter is not complicated, and should be familiar to anyone who remained awake in their high school Civics class. A bit of truncated history might be illuminating in this regard.

When the Articles of Confederation had been deemed a failure and our Founders got together to write a new constitution, there was a fundamental principle that they agreed on. The 13 "states" (former colonies) wanted to retain their individual sovereignty to the greatest extent possible, while ceding certain powers to a central government where it made sense to do so. So the central government took over, for example, the obligation of raising and funding an army and navy, establishing currency, establishing and maintaining the post office (and post roads), handling patents and copyrights, and so on - the tasks that made sense for the common government, while leaving "everything else" to the individual States.

The essence of this compromise can be found in two places: Section 8 of Article I (a listing of Congress' powers), and the Tenth Amendment (the formal declaration that all the other powers were retained by the States).

So to this day, the States have control over real estate law, commercial law*, estates and trusts, criminal law, civil law, and so on. The powers of the Federal government are LIMITED, which your Civics teacher undoubtedly repeated on many occasions.

But politicians are both predictable and evil, and starting in the 1930's the U.S. Congress has slowly eroded these principles, getting involved in a giant pile of matters that, technically, they have no "power" to get involved in. Today, we look at EDUCATION as a main point of contention, but the broad issue also involves healthcare, housing, feeding the poor, saving the planet, and so on. In fact, most of the discretionary spending that Congress does comes OUTSIDE its powers under Article I, and is thus unconstitutional.

A good illustration of the early machinations dealing with this conundrum is the creation of Social Security. Congress has no power to create or fund a compulsory national retirement program. In effect, the Democrats in Congress made a deal with the newly-Left-Wing Supreme Court. Rather than funding SS benefits with "tax" dollars, they created a fictitious "trust fund" that was kept solvent with "payroll taxes" (FICA), and the retirement benefits were taken from this trust fund - an arrangement that remains the case until this very day. Indeed, if the SS trust fund runs dry, Congress CANNOT make up the difference with "tax" dollars, and SS would have to go on a pay-as-you-go basis, paying benefits out of current FICA contributions.

Getting back to the point, virtually all of the program cuts that DOGE is raising today are reductions or elimination of programs that are unconstitutional. Nothing that is done by the Department of Education is authorized by Article I...not the student grants and loans, not the special lunch and other programs, none of it. And most of what it is doing will not be eliminated, merely shifted to other Federal Departments. For example, the college student grants and loans will probably be administered by the Department or Revenue. Enforcement of anti-discrimination laws will revert to DoJ. And so on.

I want to know when they will get around to TSA, an agency that apparently spends more of their taxpayer-funded effort at internal union work than they do screening passengers.

So as you read these heart-rending articles about all the free stuff and goodies that DOGE is threatening to take away, keep in mind that all of it is unconstitutional anyway, so no harm done(?).

___________________________
* U.S. commercial law is an interesting case. It would have been a chaotic situation if every single state had its own code of commercial laws, but Congress had no power to pass commercial legislation. National companies would have had a nightmare of complying with 50 different sets of State laws. So the states GOT TOGETHER, believe it or not, and agreed on a comprehensive set of laws, and all of them individually passed those laws - the same in every State. It's called the Uniform Commercial Code.
Yes, the Constitution gives Congress the power to create departments and agencies in the executive branch of the federal government. Congress can also define the duties of the officers who work in these departments.

Explanation
  • The Constitution assumes that there will be federal departments, but it doesn't explicitly state that Congress has the power to create them.

  • The Supreme Court has ruled that Congress has broad authority to establish and shape the federal bureaucracy.

  • The Necessary and Proper Clause gives Congress the power to establish federal offices.

  • Congress can also determine the functions and jurisdiction of these offices, as well as the qualifications and rules of eligibility for appointees.

  • Congress can also set the term and compensation for appointees.

  • Congress can also fund the departments and confirm the appointment of their top leaders.
The President can appoint the heads of executive branch departments, but the Senate must confirm these appointments.



United States, 272 U.S. 52, 129 (1926) ( To Congress under its legislative power is given the establishment of offices, the determination of their functions and jurisdiction, the prescribing of reasonable and relevant qualifications and rules of eligibility of appointees, and the fixing of the term for which they are ...

ArtII.S2.C2.3.6 Creation of Federal Offices​



The Constitution assigned to Congress responsibility for organizing the executive and judicial branches, raising revenue, declaring war, and making all laws necessary for executing these powers.

Constitution of the United States - Senate.gov​

 
Give us our money or stay home!
 
All rather 10ther provocation here.......~S~
 
Show us in the Constitution where the president has line item veto power.
Trump is assuming unprecedented Presidential power
The power to do what he wants

Republicans in Congress are afraid to anger him. Democrats just pout.

The TRUMP Court has declared that a President can’t be prosecuted and will support almost anything he wants. Even when the courts say NO, Trump just ignores them.
What are you going to do to me?
 
Trump is assuming unprecedented Presidential power
The power to do what he wants

Republicans in Congress are afraid to anger him. Democrats just pout.

The TRUMP Court has declared that a President can’t be prosecuted and will support almost anything he wants. Even when the courts say NO, Trump just ignores them.
What are you going to do to me?
There is nothing, this is the loophole other presidents did not exploit.
 
The courts determines constitutionality, NOT THE PRESIDENT. If the president by himself thinks a department is unconstitutional, he needs to fight it out in the courts, legally....not DICTATE it, by himself without any oversight.

You would think the op would KNOW THIS.

Congress has the power of the purse, also.....

not the President.

You would think the op would know that also....?

What elon musk-rat and Trump are doing, is unconstitutional....what the house is doing by doing nothing is also unconstitutional and shameful!!!!!!!!!!! We the people lose all representation that the constitution gives us!

Of the people, by the people, for the people....is no more!
 
Care4all

Is an ordinary citizen with a complete understanding of the English language, neither lawyer nor politician, able to determine whether any given law is constitutional or not? Or is it that only men and women wearing black robes on an altar able to do that?
 
Care4all

Is an ordinary citizen with a complete understanding of the English language, neither lawyer nor politician, able to determine whether any given law is constitutional or not? Or is it that only men and women wearing black robes on an altar able to do that?
Oh, I think some or even many every day folk can tell....

But the only way to legally challenge it, is through the court, those black robe guys and gals.... otherwise it becomes lawlessness....

We are a Nation of laws, not men (women).
 
Oh, I think some or even many every day folk can tell....

But the only way to legally challenge it, is through the court, those black robe guys and gals.... otherwise it becomes lawlessness....

We are a Nation of laws, not men (women).

No where in the Powers of Executive does it give the president to freeze funds already allocated by Congress. Congress controls the purse strings, NOT the WH.
 
The courts determines constitutionality, NOT THE PRESIDENT. If the president by himself thinks a department is unconstitutional, he needs to fight it out in the courts, legally....not DICTATE it, by himself without any oversight.

You would think the op would KNOW THIS.

Congress has the power of the purse, also.....

not the President.

You would think the op would know that also....?

What elon musk-rat and Trump are doing, is unconstitutional....what the house is doing by doing nothing is also unconstitutional and shameful!!!!!!!!!!! We the people lose all representation that the constitution gives us!

Of the people, by the people, for the people....is no more!
Executive MANAGES THE FEDERAL AGENCIES.

They can CUT WORKFORCES. THEY CAN REFUSE TO SPEND IT..

Clinton FIRED 377000 Federal employees
 
eagle1462010

And he did it over 8 years, and the Vice President was put in charge of it,

not a Musk-rat unelected, Cruelty Meister, who for the sake of expediency is hastily cutting... without thought or reason of what, or who he has been cutting, or without a nano second of being humane, or just simply being considerate of the situation with employees, or even act with decency or consider how these programs being cut will affect their citizenry, programs of which Congress voted for, and appropriated, to help them....

(I was in corporate management for 20 or so years, even through a couple of restructuring bankruptcies, and also through just simpler reduction or elimination of departments or chain stores within divisions, etc.

and never in a million, gazillion years would I hastily make the cuts needed without a thorough analyses so I could make the best and most efficient cuts to the businesses and areas I oversaw, nor would anyone else in management at any of the corporations I worked for....)

Anyway, back to the actual topic....
Clinton WENT TO CONGRESS and got them to agree via a vote on a bill on the restructuring reduction action he was taking... with 3.5 billion in cuts, and payouts to those being let go and pink slipped workers were given a respectable notice ahead of time etc....

This is not something only govt would do, most all large corporation would show the same decency and respect towards the workers they were having to let go.

Clinton/Gore's team, got 400 employees from various agencies to help them make streamlining and efficiency decisions and took 6 months before making the first layoffs....

With the Musk-rat, Haste Makes Waste fits perfectly, with the chaos of firing experts then having to rehire them fiasco...
 
eagle1462010

And he did it over 8 years, and the Vice President was put in charge of it,

not a Musk-rat unelected, Cruelty Meister, who for the sake of expediency is hastily cutting... without thought or reason of what, or who he has been cutting, or without a nano second of being humane, or just simply being considerate of the situation with employees, or even act with decency or consider how these programs being cut will affect their citizenry, programs of which Congress voted for, and appropriated, to help them....

(I was in corporate management for 20 or so years, even through a couple of restructuring bankruptcies, and also through just simpler reduction or elimination of departments or chain stores within divisions, etc.

and never in a million, gazillion years would I hastily make the cuts needed without a thorough analyses so I could make the best and most efficient cuts to the businesses and areas I oversaw, nor would anyone else in management at any of the corporations I worked for....)

Anyway, back to the actual topic....
Clinton WENT TO CONGRESS and got them to agree via a vote on a bill on the restructuring reduction action he was taking... with 3.5 billion in cuts, and payouts to those being let go and pink slipped workers were given a respectable notice ahead of time etc....

This is not something only govt would do, most all large corporation would show the same decency and respect towards the workers they were having to let go.

Clinton/Gore's team, got 400 employees from various agencies to help them make streamlining and efficiency decisions and took 6 months before making the first layoffs....

With the Musk-rat, Haste Makes Waste fits perfectly, with the chaos of firing experts then having to rehire them fiasco...
Onky an idiot would support doing the same bs over and over that got us here.

Gingrich forced Clinton to do the cuts.

36 Trillion time for games to end.

BTW Doge has only cut 55 Billion so far
 
Oh, I think some or even many every day folk can tell....

But the only way to legally challenge it, is through the court, those black robe guys and gals.... otherwise it becomes lawlessness....

We are a Nation of laws, not men (women).
I don't think we are really a nation of laws. Yes, that's what we're supposed to believe, but it ain't true. Trump and his Israelites have just declared the First Amendment null and void. Congress declared the Fourth Amendment null and void 20 years ago with the Patriot Act.
 

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