The Cosmological Arguments for God's Existence

[ding]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

What the fuck did you just say?

I love how Christians say god loved us so much that he gave us his only begotten son. That’s it? How about stop giving kids cancer. If you love us so much do something more than sacrifice one person 2000 years ago. Bfd

So you want to only experience good things?

Is it your belief that their can be no God unless everything is the garden of eden?

 

[G.T.]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

There it is!

Big deal. Think about all the suffering that happens daily. If he loved us he needs to stop being a deadbeat dad who bounced 2000 years ago.

Exactly!

Its not even in the top 30 worst fates I can think of...let alone would I mind as much knowing that Im all powerful and eternal. One a scale of one... to cry me a river...a guy that has the knowledge that he will live for eternity as the master of everything that will ever exist...calling NOT EVEN one of the worst HUMAN, MORTAL fates you can face a "sacrifice," is like a welfare queen spending her EBT Debit card on Lobster.

Give me a fuckin break.

 

[buttercup]

The First Cause does not have a cause.

Yes, we get it, it's the oldest ruse in the book, meant for children and gullible, desperate people.

"Everything had to have a cause, except for my sky daddy, who had no cause ."

No, dude, that is not what anyone here is saying. The argument says: everything that begins to exist has a cause. Not "everything had to have a cause." Try again.

Also, your childish name-calling only reflects right back on you, and no one else.

 

[ding]

The First Cause does not have a cause.

Yes, we get it, it's the oldest ruse in the book, meant for children and gullible, desperate people.

"Everything had to have a cause, except for my sky daddy, who had no cause ."

I’m still waiting for you to disprove God’s existence that you said anyone who was college educated could make.

I guess you aren’t college educated.

You know no one can disprove gods existence. So for you to ask that tells me you aren’t being intellectually honest here.

What we can prove is every religion is full of shit.

Every Jew agrees with us atheists that jesus wasn’t the son of god. Muslims deny that too.

So the burden of proof is on you, no?

Fortfun said any one with college education could.

 

[G.T.]

adam and eve...

humanity is "fallen" for eating from the tree of knowledge as though they were supposed to "know" not to do that

give shakespesre a cracker!!!

 

[ding]

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

There it is!

Big deal. Think about all the suffering that happens daily. If he loved us he needs to stop being a deadbeat dad who bounced 2000 years ago.

Exactly!

Its not even in the top 30 worst fates I can think of...let alone would I mind as much knowing that Im all powerful and eternal. One a scale of one... to cry me a river...a guy that has the knowledge that he will live for eternity as the master of everything that will ever exist...calling NOT EVEN one of the worst HUMAN, MORTAL fates you can face a "sacrifice," is like a welfare queen spending her EBT Debit card on Lobster.

Give me a fuckin break.

You can tell him how unimpressed you are when you meet your maker.

 

[ding]

adam and eve...

humanity is "fallen" for eating from the tree of knowledge as though they were supposed to "know" not to do that

give shakespesre a cracker!!!

That’s the tree of knowledge of good and evil and it doesn’t mean what you probably believe it does.

 

[G.T.]

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

There it is!

Big deal. Think about all the suffering that happens daily. If he loved us he needs to stop being a deadbeat dad who bounced 2000 years ago.

Exactly!

Its not even in the top 30 worst fates I can think of...let alone would I mind as much knowing that Im all powerful and eternal. One a scale of one... to cry me a river...a guy that has the knowledge that he will live for eternity as the master of everything that will ever exist...calling NOT EVEN one of the worst HUMAN, MORTAL fates you can face a "sacrifice," is like a welfare queen spending her EBT Debit card on Lobster.

Give me a fuckin break.

You can tell him how unimpressed you are when you meet your maker.

If heshe is real, I'll spit in their face on everyone's behalf for condoning all the things condoned in Mosaic Law, and for being as superficial and self centered as ding on the internet and requiring "worship."

 

[G.T.]

adam and eve...

humanity is "fallen" for eating from the tree of knowledge as though they were supposed to "know" not to do that

give shakespesre a cracker!!!

That’s the tree of knowledge of good and evil and it doesn’t mean what you probably believe it does.

Yeah.

It presumes they were supposed to know right from wrong before eating from the tree that teaches right from wrong.

Amongst all of the dumb shit in your fairy tale that requires "speshull" interpretation, which is really just your insecure rationalizations for incoherent story telling...that one is among the category: "awesome!"

Especially if Ding on the internet believes it. Thats thorough enough justification that its as dumb as it sounds upon reflection....just like an all powerful being experiencing "sacrifice."

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No, dude, that is not what anyone here is saying. The argument says: everything that begins to exist has a cause. Not "everything had to have a cause." T

Those are the same thing. What is wrong with you? The only (non)difference is that you have given yourself space to wedge in your fetish that god is eternal; infortunately for your fake objection, that doesnt delineate any difference. There is literally no difference at all between that and what i said. You are simply pulling your own taffy to keep the discussion spinning its wheels.

See, this is the horseshit i am talking about, when it comes to ding. Now, you're getting in on the act, too.

This is what religion does to a human mind. All things must defend the religion,and everything said must be right, even when it is wrong.

 

[ding]

The definition of faith is putting complete trust in something or someone.

And this is why everyone makes fun of ding the 10 cent charlatan.

I didn’t know other people also thought ding was fos. Glad to learn I’m not alone.

Of course he is. Ding's entire MO is to "win" by exhaustion. He thinks that, if he says enough ridiculous things , people will get tired of having no actual, honest discussion -- instead having to swat away his false horseshit constantly, never quite getting back to the meat of the topic -- and that people will simply tire of his anti intellectual, childish nonsense and give up trying to discuss anything with him.

Don’t you have a proof to make?

You were the one that said anyone with a college education could disprove God, Right?

 

[ding]

adam and eve...

humanity is "fallen" for eating from the tree of knowledge as though they were supposed to "know" not to do that

give shakespesre a cracker!!!

That’s the tree of knowledge of good and evil and it doesn’t mean what you probably believe it does.

Yeah.

It presumes they were supposed to know right from wrong before eating from the tree that teaches right from wrong.

Amongst all of the dumb shit in your fairy tale that requires "speshull" interpretation, which is really just your insecure rationalizations for incoherent story telling...that one is among the category: "awesome!"

Especially if Ding on the internet believes it. Thats thorough enough justification that its as dumb as it sounds upon reflection....just like an all powerful being experiencing "sacrifice."

No. That’s not it.

 

[ding]

Speaking of not being alone..do you think if you sacrificed yourself, to yourself, to appease yourself....for how your self-made garden shed "creation" falling apart.... made you feel....

That you'd consider yourself .....a rational agent?

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

There it is!

Big deal. Think about all the suffering that happens daily. If he loved us he needs to stop being a deadbeat dad who bounced 2000 years ago.

Exactly!

Its not even in the top 30 worst fates I can think of...let alone would I mind as much knowing that Im all powerful and eternal. One a scale of one... to cry me a river...a guy that has the knowledge that he will live for eternity as the master of everything that will ever exist...calling NOT EVEN one of the worst HUMAN, MORTAL fates you can face a "sacrifice," is like a welfare queen spending her EBT Debit card on Lobster.

Give me a fuckin break.

You can tell him how unimpressed you are when you meet your maker.

If heshe is real, I'll spit in their face on everyone's behalf for condoning all the things condoned in Mosaic Law, and for being as superficial and self centered as ding on the internet and requiring "worship."

Good luck with that but I suspect when you meet the creator of existence who willed the material world into existence you’re not going to be so bold.

 

[ding]

adam and eve...

humanity is "fallen" for eating from the tree of knowledge as though they were supposed to "know" not to do that

give shakespesre a cracker!!!

That’s the tree of knowledge of good and evil and it doesn’t mean what you probably believe it does.

Yeah.

It presumes they were supposed to know right from wrong before eating from the tree that teaches right from wrong.

Amongst all of the dumb shit in your fairy tale that requires "speshull" interpretation, which is really just your insecure rationalizations for incoherent story telling...that one is among the category: "awesome!"

Especially if Ding on the internet believes it. Thats thorough enough justification that its as dumb as it sounds upon reflection....just like an all powerful being experiencing "sacrifice."

Let me give you a hint. Is the concept of good and evil a human construct?

 

[buttercup]

No, dude, that is not what anyone here is saying. The argument says: everything that begins to exist has a cause. Not "everything had to have a cause." T

Those are the same thing. What is wrong with you?

See, this is the horseshit i am talking about, when it comes to ding. Now, you're getting in on the act, too.

Are you high? No, they are absolutely not the same thing. And btw, you're contradicting yourself. I just read a post of yours earlier on the thread where you asserted that the "multiverse" always existed. (Or at least that it was a possibility) Now you're saying that everything that begins to exist is the same thing as everything that has always existed, which implies that you believe everything has a beginning. You're all over the place and posting illogical statements.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

"Nothing can come from nothing!

Except my sky daddy. He can come from nothing.

Oh, and except for everything that there is, as it came from the sky daddy, and he came from nothing."

 

[G.T.]

When you put it that way it sounds crazy.

But when I say it it doesn’t.

God loved man so much that he chose to be born into this world to testify to the truth and sacrifice himself to reconcile justice with mercy.

There it is!

Big deal. Think about all the suffering that happens daily. If he loved us he needs to stop being a deadbeat dad who bounced 2000 years ago.

Exactly!

Its not even in the top 30 worst fates I can think of...let alone would I mind as much knowing that Im all powerful and eternal. One a scale of one... to cry me a river...a guy that has the knowledge that he will live for eternity as the master of everything that will ever exist...calling NOT EVEN one of the worst HUMAN, MORTAL fates you can face a "sacrifice," is like a welfare queen spending her EBT Debit card on Lobster.

Give me a fuckin break.

You can tell him how unimpressed you are when you meet your maker.

If heshe is real, I'll spit in their face on everyone's behalf for condoning all the things condoned in Mosaic Law, and for being as superficial and self centered as ding on the internet and requiring "worship."

Good luck with that but I suspect when you meet the creator of existence who willed the material world into existence you’re not going to be so bold.

Its no different than being bold to a parent, each individual's creator... and if my mom were a rape ordering, baby killing, slavery condoning.."jealous," and demanding of "worship" narcissistic scumlord like the heathen that created Mosaic Law...Id have no fear in showing my wrath toward that sort of gross lack of character.

Im not a sock puppet with daddy worship issues.

 

[Hollie]

The cosmological arguments for God's existence are predicated on the first principles of ontology, i.e., the fundamental facts of existence per the imperatives of logic. Many fail to appreciate the intermediate premises of these arguments, particularly those of the KCA.


The following includes my own sub-premises for the first premise and my summary argument for the conclusion:

The Kalam Cosmological Argument (Horizontal Argument)

1. That which begins to exist must have a cause of its existence.

1.1. Something exists.

1.2. Existence from nonexistence is absurd.

1.3. Something has always existed.
​

2. The universe began to exist.

Argument based on the impossibility of an actual infinite.
2.11. An actual infinite cannot exist.
2.12. An infinite temporal regress of events is an actual infinite.
2.13. Therefore, an infinite temporal regress of events cannot exist.

AND

Argument based on the impossibility of the formation of an actual infinite by successive addition.
2.21. A collection formed by successive addition cannot be actually infinite.
2.22. The temporal series of past events is a collection formed by successive addition.
2.23. Therefore, the temporal series of past events cannot be actually infinite.​

3. The universe has a cause of its existence.

3.1. If the cause of the universe's existence were impersonal, it would be operationally mechanical.

3.2. An operationally mechanical cause would be a material existent.

3.3. The causal conditions for the effect of an operationally mechanical cause would be given from eternity.

3.4. But a material existent is a contingent entity of continuous change and causality!

3.5. An infinite temporal series of past causal events cannot be traversed to the present.

3.6. Indeed, an actual infinite cannot exist.

3.7. Hence, a temporal existent cannot have a beginningless past.

3.8. Hence, time began to exist.

3.9. A material existent is a temporal existent.

3.10. Hence, materiality began to exist.

3.11. The universe is a material existent.

3.12. Hence, the universe began to exist.

3.13. Hence, the cause of the universe's existence cannot be material (per 3.10.).

3.14. Hence, the cause of the universe's existence cannot be operationally mechanical (per 3.2., 3.10.).

3.15. Hence, the eternally self-subsistent cause of the universe's existence is wholly transcendent: timeless, immaterial and immutable (3.13.).

3.16. The only kind of timeless entity that could cause the beginning of time sans any external, predetermining causal conditions would be a personal agent of free will (per 3.3., 3.14.).

3.17. Hence, the eternally self-subsistent cause of the universe's existence is a personal agent of free will.


The Vertical Cosmological Argument​

1. If something exists, there must exist what it takes for that thing to exist.
2. The universe—the collection of beings in space and time—exists.
3. Therefore, there must exist what it takes for the universe to exist.
4. What it takes for the universe to exist cannot exist within the universe or be bounded by space and time.
5. Therefore, what it takes for the universe to exist must transcend both space and time.

If God exists, then who made god?

Are you suggesting that existence arose from nonexistence?

Isn't that how you contend that god was made?

Do you honestly not know the answer to that question, or are you trolling? The First Cause does not have a cause. OBVIOUSLY. If The First Cause had a cause, then that cause would be God.

God is eternal. I thought that even atheists knew that, whether you believe it or not.

So by asking that question, you either have to be trolling or you're ignorant as to what God is by definition.

Hold on. The gods by definition being eternal is nothing more than unverifiable gainsay, by definition. We have no evidence for any gods, therefore, claims to various attributes assigned to the gods are mere speculation, by definition,

 

[G.T.]

adam and eve...

humanity is "fallen" for eating from the tree of knowledge as though they were supposed to "know" not to do that

give shakespesre a cracker!!!

That’s the tree of knowledge of good and evil and it doesn’t mean what you probably believe it does.

Yeah.

It presumes they were supposed to know right from wrong before eating from the tree that teaches right from wrong.

Amongst all of the dumb shit in your fairy tale that requires "speshull" interpretation, which is really just your insecure rationalizations for incoherent story telling...that one is among the category: "awesome!"

Especially if Ding on the internet believes it. Thats thorough enough justification that its as dumb as it sounds upon reflection....just like an all powerful being experiencing "sacrifice."

Let me give you a hint. Is the concept of good and evil a human construct?

You have nothing to offer me, lets be crystal clear.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Now you're saying that everything that begins to exist is the same thing as everything that has always existed

Correct, in your paradigm where everything had a cause. You are the one who has constrained yourself. Pay attention to your own nonsense....you go down the rabbit hole and forget what you said 5 minutes ago, as your arguments are meandering horseshit prescribed to reach a conclusion you already deemed true. As such, you make error after error and contradiction after contradiction.

You will do it again, and i will point it out again.