The Argument for a Palestinian State

[DGS49]

A Palestinian state is inevitable. Biden should speed up the process.

I call on U.S. President Joe Biden to recognize a Palestinian state now.

thehill.com

There it is. Read it and understand the perspective.

But on the other hand,

• There is no legitimate entity that could be deemed a "State." Neither the Palestinian Authority nor Hamas has any electoral legitimacy. Neither has held an election in more than a decade, and the idea that any fair and free election could even be held in "Palestine" is a sick joke.
• Poll after poll indicates that fewer than 20% of "Palestinians" can envision a time, EVER, when a Palestinian State could live in peace alongside the Jewish State. You cannot legitimize a mob whose very reason for existence is the obliteration of a neighboring State.
• "Palestine" would be a "welfare state." It has no economy. It produces nothing of value. It would be entirely dependent on donations (whatever you call them) from other States and organizations for its existence.
• The "culture" of Palestine is an awful mess. Its children have been raised and taught in school that their highest aspiration would be to die in the act of killing a Jew or Jews.
• The "Palestinians" are universally shunned in the Arab/Muslim world. Its refugees are denied citizenship rights in almost every country to which they have fled over the years. Even those countries recognize that they are a cancer.

The ONLY reason why this Administration would today recognize a Palestinian State would be to win votes in Michigan and Minnesota. Such a blatant, cynical move would be...unsurprising.

 

[JoeB131]

A Palestinian state is inevitable. Biden should speed up the process.

I call on U.S. President Joe Biden to recognize a Palestinian state now.

thehill.com

There it is. Read it and understand the perspective.

But on the other hand,

• There is no legitimate entity that could be deemed a "State." Neither the Palestinian Authority nor Hamas has any electoral legitimacy. Neither has held an election in more than a decade, and the idea that any fair and free election could even be held in "Palestine" is a sick joke.
• Poll after poll indicates that fewer than 20% of "Palestinians" can envision a time, EVER, when a Palestinian State could live in peace alongside the Jewish State. You cannot legitimize a mob whose very reason for existence is the obliteration of a neighboring State.
• "Palestine" would be a "welfare state." It has no economy. It produces nothing of value. It would be entirely dependent on donations (whatever you call them) from other States and organizations for its existence.
• The "culture" of Palestine is an awful mess. Its children have been raised and taught in school that their highest aspiration would be to die in the act of killing a Jew or Jews.
• The "Palestinians" are universally shunned in the Arab/Muslim world. Its refugees are denied citizenship rights in almost every country to which they have fled over the years. Even those countries recognize that they are a cancer.

The ONLY reason why this Administration would today recognize a Palestinian State would be to win votes in Michigan and Minnesota. Such a blatant, cynical move would be...unsurprising.

Actually, the Two-state solution is the best way forward.

The alternative would be to incorporate Palestinians into Israel and give them all the same rights and privileges Jews have. Do that, and they will vote "Israel" out of existence.

Israel is trying a variation on the "Homeland" stuff that South Africa tried to pull in attempts to keep Apartheid going in the fact of international condemnation. It didn't work then, and it won't work now.

 

[Esdraelon]

Actually, the Two-state solution is the best way forward

That plan has been offered to the Palestinians many times and they always refuse it. They want all the land and will accept nothing less. Just for the sake of discussion let's say a deal gets made and borders are set for a shiny new sovereign Palestine. What happens if, once they've gotten their state they begin shooting Jews again? There is no reason to believe they would stop.

 

[JoeB131]

That plan has been offered to the Palestinians many times and they always refuse it. They want all the land and will accept nothing less. Just for the sake of discussion let's say a deal gets made and borders are set for a shiny new sovereign Palestine. What happens if, once they've gotten their state they begin shooting Jews again? There is no reason to believe they would stop.

Well,the Jews can always go back to Europe where they came from.

Seems to me that if you move next door to people who want to kill you, you really shouldn't bitch when they try to kill you.

I know, let's keep a boot to their neck in perpetuity! That'll make them not want to kill us!

 

[José]

Esdraelon is 100% correct, Joe. The day after the founding of a Palestinian state the rockets would start raining down on Jerusalem from the palestinian highlands.

You see... Esdraelon and I are poles apart as far as this conflict is concerned.

Esdraelon, CarlinAnnArbour and JGalt are evangelical christians waiting for the fulfillment of biblical prophesy.

I'm an agnostic who believes that the social paradigms of the super-humanization of Jews and the dehumanization of the arab people of Palestine brought about by WWII have to come to an end.

But we both agree on one thing:

The palestinians don't want peace, they want justice.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well,the Jews can always go back to Europe where they came from.

Seems to me that if you move next door to people who want to kill you, you really shouldn't bitch when they try to kill you.

I know, let's keep a boot to their neck in perpetuity! That'll make them not want to kill us!

Well,the Jews can always go back to Europe where they came from.

And the Arabs can go back to Arabia.

 

[bendog]

Actually, the Two-state solution is the best way forward.

The alternative would be to incorporate Palestinians into Israel and give them all the same rights and privileges Jews have. Do that, and they will vote "Israel" out of existence.

Israel is trying a variation on the "Homeland" stuff that South Africa tried to pull in attempts to keep Apartheid going in the fact of international condemnation. It didn't work then, and it won't work now.

Imo, Likud is actually worse than than S. Africa's apartheid govts. The land in question in Palestine is not, and never has been, legally part of Israel, unless you count the Talmud as a property deed. In S. Africa's case, the lands in question were always part of S.Africa, the only changes were from blacks running the show, to the Boers running the show, to the Brits, to the white S. Africans, and then with DeKlerk opening S. Africa to multi-ethnic voting.

But the question is ..... how does the world keep a Palestine or arab state ... demiliterized.

 

[MJB12741]

Actually, the Two-state solution is the best way forward.

The alternative would be to incorporate Palestinians into Israel and give them all the same rights and privileges Jews have. Do that, and they will vote "Israel" out of existence.

Israel is trying a variation on the "Homeland" stuff that South Africa tried to pull in attempts to keep Apartheid going in the fact of international condemnation. It didn't work then, and it won't work now.

Get serious. A Palestinian state would mean two states at endless war.

 

[bendog]

Get serious. A Palestinian state would mean two states at endless war.

Not necessarily, if a Pale state was similar to a native american reservation. The problem is .... how does the world keep them from getting more weapons and tunnels.

 

[JoeB131]

Get serious. A Palestinian state would mean two states at endless war.

How is that any different than what they have now?

 

[bendog]

A Palestinian state is inevitable. Biden should speed up the process.

I call on U.S. President Joe Biden to recognize a Palestinian state now.

thehill.com

There it is. Read it and understand the perspective.

But on the other hand,

• There is no legitimate entity that could be deemed a "State." Neither the Palestinian Authority nor Hamas has any electoral legitimacy. Neither has held an election in more than a decade, and the idea that any fair and free election could even be held in "Palestine" is a sick joke.
• Poll after poll indicates that fewer than 20% of "Palestinians" can envision a time, EVER, when a Palestinian State could live in peace alongside the Jewish State. You cannot legitimize a mob whose very reason for existence is the obliteration of a neighboring State.
• "Palestine" would be a "welfare state." It has no economy. It produces nothing of value. It would be entirely dependent on donations (whatever you call them) from other States and organizations for its existence.
• The "culture" of Palestine is an awful mess. Its children have been raised and taught in school that their highest aspiration would be to die in the act of killing a Jew or Jews.
• The "Palestinians" are universally shunned in the Arab/Muslim world. Its refugees are denied citizenship rights in almost every country to which they have fled over the years. Even those countries recognize that they are a cancer.

The ONLY reason why this Administration would today recognize a Palestinian State would be to win votes in Michigan and Minnesota. Such a blatant, cynical move would be...unsurprising.

Well there are some 30K casualties to be considered. The problem is, some terrorist entity will arize from the Palestinians ..... unless they are forcibly disarmed and don't control the entry of goods.

 

[MJB12741]

How is that any different than what they have now?

Exactly my point. So why create any Palestinian state?

 

[bendog]

Yes, Mr. Kirby ... if Biden wants a second term there will have to be conditions on how Likud uses the bombs we give them ... free of charges.

“Right, but these are verbal urgings, verbal commitments. There’s no other incentive besides the urgency of the discussion yesterday,” Wang pushed back.

“I know. You want us to hang some sort of condition over their neck,” Kirby snapped back. “And what I’m telling you is that we continue to work with the Israelis to make sure that they are as precise as they can be and that more aid is getting in, and we’re going to continue to take that approach.”

Kirby to reporter who questions U.S. assistance to Israel: “You want us to hang some sort of condition over their neck.”

So how can the U.S. continue to send aid to Israel without any conditions? Yes, they have already – We're not sending aid to Israel. We're sending aid into Gaza, and that's – Weapons. How can they – how can the U.S. continue to send military aid to Israel without any conditions? Military...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Rawley]

Actually, the Two-state solution is the best way forward.

The alternative would be to incorporate Palestinians into Israel and give them all the same rights and privileges Jews have. Do that, and they will vote "Israel" out of existence.

Israel is trying a variation on the "Homeland" stuff that South Africa tried to pull in attempts to keep Apartheid going in the fact of international condemnation. It didn't work then, and it won't work now.

Israeli Arabs have the same rights as Israeli Jews.

 

[Shusha]

...The land in question in Palestine is not, and never has been, legally part of Israel...

How would your view change if you knew this not to be true?

But the question is ..... how does the world keep a Palestine or arab state ... demiliterized.

De-radicalization and supervision.

 

[JoeB131]

Israeli Arabs have the same rights as Israeli Jews.

Only the ones who live withing the 1967 borders... Quit lying.

 

[Rawley]

Only the ones who live withing the 1967 borders...

The ones living in the state of Israel, the only place Israel can give them rights.

Quit lying.

You big poopyhead. I win

 

[Shusha]

Only the ones who live withing the 1967 borders... Quit lying.

This is kinda the bottom line, isn't it? What is the status of the Arabs living in Gaza and the West Bank? Are they citizens of Israel? (In which case, they, obviously, should have the same rights as Jewish Israelis. But this would also end the idea of a future State of Palestine.) OR are they citizens of Palestine? (In which case, could you argue that a State of Palestine already exists?)

 

[martybegan]

Only the ones who live withing the 1967 borders... Quit lying.

Not lying. Palestinians aren't Israeli Arabs.

 

[Rawley]

This is kinda the bottom line, isn't it? What is the status of the Arabs living in Gaza and the West Bank? Are they citizens of Israel? (In which case, they, obviously, should have the same rights as Jewish Israelis. But this would also end the idea of a future State of Palestine.) OR are they citizens of Palestine? (In which case, could you argue that a State of Palestine already exists?)

Seems Joe wants it both ways.