The amazing story of an indentured servant (slave white guy) thrown off the Mayflower and saved.

[jon_berzerk]

Cool beans.
He was never a "slave," though. Indentured servants had a contract, served their time, and were free.

That is the spiel and many think of them somewhat like those characteers in the T.V. series upstairs downstair where the servants were treated like family...very kindly and the master was just so genteel.

Reality is quite different....and though many,many Americans can over as indentured servants...most do not even know that and know even less about the very harsh conditions they endured.

First of all they had no legal rights....they were at the mercy of their master...some were good...many if not most were not. They were supposed to be released after 7 yrs. but often this was not the case...the master would scheme to keep them in his debt and then force them to keep working to supposedly pay off the debt.

'In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, more than 300,000 white people were shipped to America as slaves. Urchins were swept up from London’s streets to labor in the tobacco fields, where life expectancy was no more than two years. Brothels were raided to provide “breeders” for Virginia. Hopeful migrants were duped into signing as indentured servants, unaware they would become personal property who could be bought, sold, and even gambled away. Transported convicts were paraded for sale like livestock.

Drawing on letters crying for help, diaries, and court and government archives, Don Jordan and Michael Walsh demonstrate that the brutalities usually associated with black slavery alone were perpetrated on whites throughout British rule. The trade ended with American independence, but the British still tried to sell convicts in their former colonies, which prompted one of the most audacious plots in Anglo-American history.

This is a saga of exploration and cruelty spanning 170 years that has been submerged under the overwhelming memory of black slavery. White Cargo brings the brutal, uncomfortable story to the surface.'White Cargo

Thanks for the details. I know it wasn't by any means an idyllic existence, but their children were not property and there was a way out at the end of their servitude--and courts to hold owners to their obligations.
I don't really think it is accurate to refer to them as "slaves." They have a name, "indentured servants." Use it.

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

it is called willful ignorance

how many times on this site has this been pointed out

 

[Cellblock2429]

His name was John Howland.

It is truly an amazing story. Yes, an indentured servant. I mean can you believe it? A white slave? Huh, I did not know they were allowed to be slaves. Go figure.

Aaaanyway, he was thrown overboard by powerful waves during the voyage of the Mayflower to the new world. He was somehow saved and this is what happened.



List of famous descendants.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt
President George H. W. Bush
President George W. Bush
Chevy Chase
Alexander 'Alec' Baldwin
Humphrey Bogart
Christopher Lloyd
Sarah Palin
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Benjamin Spock

/----/ We were taught about Indentured servants in the 7th grade ( 1964) Some of my ancestors worked their way across the Atlantic from Europe that way. After a few years (5 or 6 maybe) they were free.

 

[OldLady]

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

 

[MacTheKnife]

Cool beans.
He was never a "slave," though. Indentured servants had a contract, served their time, and were free.

That is the spiel and many think of them somewhat like those characteers in the T.V. series upstairs downstair where the servants were treated like family...very kindly and the master was just so genteel.

Reality is quite different....and though many,many Americans can over as indentured servants...most do not even know that and know even less about the very harsh conditions they endured.

First of all they had no legal rights....they were at the mercy of their master...some were good...many if not most were not. They were supposed to be released after 7 yrs. but often this was not the case...the master would scheme to keep them in his debt and then force them to keep working to supposedly pay off the debt.

'In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, more than 300,000 white people were shipped to America as slaves. Urchins were swept up from London’s streets to labor in the tobacco fields, where life expectancy was no more than two years. Brothels were raided to provide “breeders” for Virginia. Hopeful migrants were duped into signing as indentured servants, unaware they would become personal property who could be bought, sold, and even gambled away. Transported convicts were paraded for sale like livestock.

Drawing on letters crying for help, diaries, and court and government archives, Don Jordan and Michael Walsh demonstrate that the brutalities usually associated with black slavery alone were perpetrated on whites throughout British rule. The trade ended with American independence, but the British still tried to sell convicts in their former colonies, which prompted one of the most audacious plots in Anglo-American history.

This is a saga of exploration and cruelty spanning 170 years that has been submerged under the overwhelming memory of black slavery. White Cargo brings the brutal, uncomfortable story to the surface.'White Cargo

Thanks for the details. I know it wasn't by any means an idyllic existence, but their children were not property and there was a way out at the end of their servitude--and courts to hold owners to their obligations.
I don't really think it is accurate to refer to them as "slaves." They have a name, "indentured servants." Use it.

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

 

[Theowl32]

That is the spiel and many think of them somewhat like those characteers in the T.V. series upstairs downstair where the servants were treated like family...very kindly and the master was just so genteel.

Reality is quite different....and though many,many Americans can over as indentured servants...most do not even know that and know even less about the very harsh conditions they endured.

First of all they had no legal rights....they were at the mercy of their master...some were good...many if not most were not. They were supposed to be released after 7 yrs. but often this was not the case...the master would scheme to keep them in his debt and then force them to keep working to supposedly pay off the debt.

'In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, more than 300,000 white people were shipped to America as slaves. Urchins were swept up from London’s streets to labor in the tobacco fields, where life expectancy was no more than two years. Brothels were raided to provide “breeders” for Virginia. Hopeful migrants were duped into signing as indentured servants, unaware they would become personal property who could be bought, sold, and even gambled away. Transported convicts were paraded for sale like livestock.

Drawing on letters crying for help, diaries, and court and government archives, Don Jordan and Michael Walsh demonstrate that the brutalities usually associated with black slavery alone were perpetrated on whites throughout British rule. The trade ended with American independence, but the British still tried to sell convicts in their former colonies, which prompted one of the most audacious plots in Anglo-American history.

This is a saga of exploration and cruelty spanning 170 years that has been submerged under the overwhelming memory of black slavery. White Cargo brings the brutal, uncomfortable story to the surface.'White Cargo

Thanks for the details. I know it wasn't by any means an idyllic existence, but their children were not property and there was a way out at the end of their servitude--and courts to hold owners to their obligations.
I don't really think it is accurate to refer to them as "slaves." They have a name, "indentured servants." Use it.

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

In classic liberal fashion, she claims how much she hates slavery. Of course her only real problem with slavery is white American "capitalists" who were guilty of engaging in it.

She did not even address and so therefore ignore the facts presented. She clearly does not give one flying fuck about the Trans Sahara slave trade. She has no fucking clue. The only thing she knows is capitalism is bad, and socialism good.

She knows that all blacks are innocent of white man tyranny. That is it.

 

[MacTheKnife]

Thanks for the details. I know it wasn't by any means an idyllic existence, but their children were not property and there was a way out at the end of their servitude--and courts to hold owners to their obligations.
I don't really think it is accurate to refer to them as "slaves." They have a name, "indentured servants." Use it.

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

In classic liberal fashion, she claims how much she hates slavery. Of course her only real problem with slavery is white American "capitalists" who were guilty of engaging in it.

She did not even address and so therefore ignore the facts presented. She clearly does not give one flying fuck about the Trans Sahara slave trade. She has no fucking clue. The only thing she knows is capitalism is bad, and socialism good.

She knows that all blacks are innocent of white man tyranny. That is it.

Yes.....typical of progressive/liberals/socialists/marxists....will never admit to a mistake....I think down deep she probably knows she is wrong but simply will not admit it.

 

[OldLady]

That is the spiel and many think of them somewhat like those characteers in the T.V. series upstairs downstair where the servants were treated like family...very kindly and the master was just so genteel.

Reality is quite different....and though many,many Americans can over as indentured servants...most do not even know that and know even less about the very harsh conditions they endured.

First of all they had no legal rights....they were at the mercy of their master...some were good...many if not most were not. They were supposed to be released after 7 yrs. but often this was not the case...the master would scheme to keep them in his debt and then force them to keep working to supposedly pay off the debt.

'In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, more than 300,000 white people were shipped to America as slaves. Urchins were swept up from London’s streets to labor in the tobacco fields, where life expectancy was no more than two years. Brothels were raided to provide “breeders” for Virginia. Hopeful migrants were duped into signing as indentured servants, unaware they would become personal property who could be bought, sold, and even gambled away. Transported convicts were paraded for sale like livestock.

Drawing on letters crying for help, diaries, and court and government archives, Don Jordan and Michael Walsh demonstrate that the brutalities usually associated with black slavery alone were perpetrated on whites throughout British rule. The trade ended with American independence, but the British still tried to sell convicts in their former colonies, which prompted one of the most audacious plots in Anglo-American history.

This is a saga of exploration and cruelty spanning 170 years that has been submerged under the overwhelming memory of black slavery. White Cargo brings the brutal, uncomfortable story to the surface.'White Cargo

Thanks for the details. I know it wasn't by any means an idyllic existence, but their children were not property and there was a way out at the end of their servitude--and courts to hold owners to their obligations.
I don't really think it is accurate to refer to them as "slaves." They have a name, "indentured servants." Use it.

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

 

[rightwinger]

His name was John Howland.

It is truly an amazing story. Yes, an indentured servant. I mean can you believe it? A white slave? Huh, I did not know they were allowed to be slaves. Go figure.

Aaaanyway, he was thrown overboard by powerful waves during the voyage of the Mayflower to the new world. He was somehow saved and this is what happened.



List of famous descendants.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt
President George H. W. Bush
President George W. Bush
Chevy Chase
Alexander 'Alec' Baldwin
Humphrey Bogart
Christopher Lloyd
Sarah Palin
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Benjamin Spock

Interesting history

Your white slave spin is incorrect though. An indenture is a contract that both sides willfully agree to

 

[MacTheKnife]

Thanks for the details. I know it wasn't by any means an idyllic existence, but their children were not property and there was a way out at the end of their servitude--and courts to hold owners to their obligations.
I don't really think it is accurate to refer to them as "slaves." They have a name, "indentured servants." Use it.

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

/—-/ Say what?

 

[MacTheKnife]

Thanks for the details. I know it wasn't by any means an idyllic existence, but their children were not property and there was a way out at the end of their servitude--and courts to hold owners to their obligations.
I don't really think it is accurate to refer to them as "slaves." They have a name, "indentured servants." Use it.

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

First of all Indentured Servitude was institutionalized.

Slavery was thousands of years old...and is still practiced in certain areas in Africa and China.

Plantations required cheap labor to survive much as today the produce farmers in Calif. and elsewhere need cheap labor to survive aka illegal mexican labor....I think calling them greedy is a mischaracterization--if you do not allow farmers to make a profit you will go hungry and eventually starve....like they did in Russia and China at various times under communism....now you want to talk about discrimination....another topic. This thread is about indentured servitude.

And you try and make a big deal out of the so-called contracts which were nothing but a piece of paper and no one enforced them...it was left up to the master whether or not he wanted to live up to it....He had absolute power over his servants/slaves...he could do what he wanted. Some of them as pointed out did live up to the contract but many, many more if not most did not. It was very easy to get around the contract....and as has been pointed out most of the servants/slaves died before their supposed time of release even came up...worked to death.

It is shameful how you attempt to lessen the harsh reality of that system by saying oh...they had a contract...they were not slaves...utter bullllshittttte!!!!! A worthless unenforceable contract such as those poor souls supposedly had was nothing more than a formality to enslave them by.

Your spurious claim of ignored facts rests on you ...and even more than that you do not understand the difference between bogus claims and reality.....the slave owners did not want to admit they held white slaves...but used the term 'indentured servitude' camouflage what was actually going on............slavery and a very cruel form....much worse than the black slavery that came later.....the blacks were not worked to death, were fed very well and had adequate clothing and shelter because they were considered property...and only a fool would mistreat his property.

Thanks for the details. I know it wasn't by any means an idyllic existence, but their children were not property and there was a way out at the end of their servitude--and courts to hold owners to their obligations.
I don't really think it is accurate to refer to them as "slaves." They have a name, "indentured servants." Use it.

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

Thanks for the details. I know it wasn't by any means an idyllic existence, but their children were not property and there was a way out at the end of their servitude--and courts to hold owners to their obligations.
I don't really think it is accurate to refer to them as "slaves." They have a name, "indentured servants." Use it.

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

Thanks for the details. I know it wasn't by any means an idyllic existence, but their children were not property and there was a way out at the end of their servitude--and courts to hold owners to their obligations.
I don't really think it is accurate to refer to them as "slaves." They have a name, "indentured servants." Use it.

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

His name was John Howland.

It is truly an amazing story. Yes, an indentured servant. I mean can you believe it? A white slave? Huh, I did not know they were allowed to be slaves. Go figure.

Aaaanyway, he was thrown overboard by powerful waves during the voyage of the Mayflower to the new world. He was somehow saved and this is what happened.



List of famous descendants.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt
President George H. W. Bush
President George W. Bush
Chevy Chase
Alexander 'Alec' Baldwin
Humphrey Bogart
Christopher Lloyd
Sarah Palin
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Benjamin Spock

Interesting history

Your white slave spin is incorrect though. An indenture is a contract that both sides willfully agree to

A unenforceable contract is no contract boyo.

 

[Theowl32]

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

First of all Indentured Servitude was institutionalized.

Slavery was thousands of years old...and is still practiced in certain areas in Africa and China.

Plantations required cheap labor to survive much as today the produce farmers in Calif. and elsewhere need cheap labor to survive aka illegal mexican labor....I think calling them greedy is a mischaracterization--if you do not allow farmers to make a profit you will go hungry and eventually starve....like they did in Russia and China at various times under communism....now you want to talk about discrimination....another topic. This thread is about indentured servitude.

And you try and make a big deal out of the so-called contracts which were nothing but a piece of paper and no one enforced them...it was left up to the master whether or not he wanted to live up to it....He had absolute power over his servants/slaves...he could do what he wanted. Some of them as pointed out did live up to the contract but many, many more if not most did not. It was very easy to get around the contract....and as has been pointed out most of the servants/slaves died before their supposed time of release even came up...worked to death.

It is shameful how you attempt to lessen the harsh reality of that system by saying oh...they had a contract...they were not slaves...utter bullllshittttte!!!!! A worthless unenforceable contract such as those poor souls supposedly had was nothing more than a formality to enslave them by.

Your spurious claim of ignored facts rests on you ...and even more than that you do not understand the difference between bogus claims and reality.....the slave owners did not want to admit they held white slaves...but used the term 'indentured servitude' camouflage what was actually going on............slavery and a very cruel form....much worse than the black slavery that came later.....the blacks were not worked to death, were fed very well and had adequate clothing and shelter because they were con

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

His name was John Howland.

It is truly an amazing story. Yes, an indentured servant. I mean can you believe it? A white slave? Huh, I did not know they were allowed to be slaves. Go figure.

Aaaanyway, he was thrown overboard by powerful waves during the voyage of the Mayflower to the new world. He was somehow saved and this is what happened.



List of famous descendants.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt
President George H. W. Bush
President George W. Bush
Chevy Chase
Alexander 'Alec' Baldwin
Humphrey Bogart
Christopher Lloyd
Sarah Palin
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Benjamin Spock

Interesting history

Your white slave spin is incorrect though. An indenture is a contract that both sides willfully agree to

A unenforceable contract is no contract boyo.

The left will be the same ones crushing any white republican president if all of a sudden produce skyrocketed in price due to high cost of labor.

They have no clue how the economy works. What they tell each other and what they believe is all profits are evil.

Yet, they are the same ones that cannot and will not answer why if things are soooo great for the poor in socialist countries, then why are they so desperate to get here and not the other way around?

When was the last time we saw poor Americans trying to escape the "evils" of a free market to a socialist paradise?

The left are so stupid that they will equate the Trump wall with the Berlin wall. They are so pathetic that they don't know the Berlin wall was a prison wall, built to KEEP PEOPLE IN. No one was ever trying to break into East Germany to live in that commie shit.

Good Lord they are such creepy people.

 

[OldLady]

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

First of all Indentured Servitude was institutionalized.

Slavery was thousands of years old...and is still practiced in certain areas in Africa and China.

Plantations required cheap labor to survive much as today the produce farmers in Calif. and elsewhere need cheap labor to survive aka illegal mexican labor....I think calling them greedy is a mischaracterization--if you do not allow farmers to make a profit you will go hungry and eventually starve....like they did in Russia and China at various times under communism....now you want to talk about discrimination....another topic. This thread is about indentured servitude.

And you try and make a big deal out of the so-called contracts which were nothing but a piece of paper and no one enforced them...it was left up to the master whether or not he wanted to live up to it....He had absolute power over his servants/slaves...he could do what he wanted. Some of them as pointed out did live up to the contract but many, many more if not most did not. It was very easy to get around the contract....and as has been pointed out most of the servants/slaves died before their supposed time of release even came up...worked to death.

It is shameful how you attempt to lessen the harsh reality of that system by saying oh...they had a contract...they were not slaves...utter bullllshittttte!!!!! A worthless unenforceable contract such as those poor souls supposedly had was nothing more than a formality to enslave them by.

Your spurious claim of ignored facts rests on you ...and even more than that you do not understand the difference between bogus claims and reality.....the slave owners did not want to admit they held white slaves...but used the term 'indentured servitude' camouflage what was actually going on............slavery and a very cruel form....much worse than the black slavery that came later.....the blacks were not worked to death, were fed very well and had adequate clothing and shelter because they were considered property...and only a fool would mistreat his property.

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

His name was John Howland.

It is truly an amazing story. Yes, an indentured servant. I mean can you believe it? A white slave? Huh, I did not know they were allowed to be slaves. Go figure.

Aaaanyway, he was thrown overboard by powerful waves during the voyage of the Mayflower to the new world. He was somehow saved and this is what happened.



List of famous descendants.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt
President George H. W. Bush
President George W. Bush
Chevy Chase
Alexander 'Alec' Baldwin
Humphrey Bogart
Christopher Lloyd
Sarah Palin
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Benjamin Spock

Interesting history

Your white slave spin is incorrect though. An indenture is a contract that both sides willfully agree to

A unenforceable contract is no contract boyo.

what was actually going on............slavery and a very cruel form....much worse than the black slavery that came later.....the blacks were not worked to death, were fed very well and had adequate clothing and shelter because they were considered property...and only a fool would mistreat his property.
And you call me ignorant?

 

[Theowl32]

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

First of all Indentured Servitude was institutionalized.

Slavery was thousands of years old...and is still practiced in certain areas in Africa and China.

Plantations required cheap labor to survive much as today the produce farmers in Calif. and elsewhere need cheap labor to survive aka illegal mexican labor....I think calling them greedy is a mischaracterization--if you do not allow farmers to make a profit you will go hungry and eventually starve....like they did in Russia and China at various times under communism....now you want to talk about discrimination....another topic. This thread is about indentured servitude.

And you try and make a big deal out of the so-called contracts which were nothing but a piece of paper and no one enforced them...it was left up to the master whether or not he wanted to live up to it....He had absolute power over his servants/slaves...he could do what he wanted. Some of them as pointed out did live up to the contract but many, many more if not most did not. It was very easy to get around the contract....and as has been pointed out most of the servants/slaves died before their supposed time of release even came up...worked to death.

It is shameful how you attempt to lessen the harsh reality of that system by saying oh...they had a contract...they were not slaves...utter bullllshittttte!!!!! A worthless unenforceable contract such as those poor souls supposedly had was nothing more than a formality to enslave them by.

Your spurious claim of ignored facts rests on you ...and even more than that you do not understand the difference between bogus claims and reality.....the slave owners did not want to admit they held white slaves...but used the term 'indentured servitude' camouflage what was actually going on............slavery and a very cruel form....much worse than the black slavery that came later.....the blacks were not worked to death, were fed very well and had adequate clothing and shelter because they were considered property...and only a fool would mistreat his property.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

His name was John Howland.

It is truly an amazing story. Yes, an indentured servant. I mean can you believe it? A white slave? Huh, I did not know they were allowed to be slaves. Go figure.

Aaaanyway, he was thrown overboard by powerful waves during the voyage of the Mayflower to the new world. He was somehow saved and this is what happened.



List of famous descendants.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt
President George H. W. Bush
President George W. Bush
Chevy Chase
Alexander 'Alec' Baldwin
Humphrey Bogart
Christopher Lloyd
Sarah Palin
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Benjamin Spock

Interesting history

Your white slave spin is incorrect though. An indenture is a contract that both sides willfully agree to

A unenforceable contract is no contract boyo.

what was actually going on............slavery and a very cruel form....much worse than the black slavery that came later.....the blacks were not worked to death, were fed very well and had adequate clothing and shelter because they were considered property...and only a fool would mistreat his property.
And you call me ignorant?

Do you know or care that many blacks proudly fought for the confederacy?



That was because not every slave owner (1.5 percent of the population at its height) were cruel towards their slaves.

I get it. You, in your popular, socially accepted stereotype vision, they all whipped their slaves. Raped their slave women. Played banjos. Got it. We know how you were taught.

Of course you also don't know, and I bet don't care that Native American tribes owned slaves and fought for the confederacy also.

What do you care? Now, go tell your friends how mean white conservatives were to you for pointing out facts that contradict your paradigm.

 

[Vastator]

Cool beans.
He was never a "slave," though. Indentured servants had a contract, served their time, and were free.

That is the spiel and many think of them somewhat like those characteers in the T.V. series upstairs downstair where the servants were treated like family...very kindly and the master was just so genteel.

Reality is quite different....and though many,many Americans can over as indentured servants...most do not even know that and know even less about the very harsh conditions they endured.

First of all they had no legal rights....they were at the mercy of their master...some were good...many if not most were not. They were supposed to be released after 7 yrs. but often this was not the case...the master would scheme to keep them in his debt and then force them to keep working to supposedly pay off the debt.

'In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, more than 300,000 white people were shipped to America as slaves. Urchins were swept up from London’s streets to labor in the tobacco fields, where life expectancy was no more than two years. Brothels were raided to provide “breeders” for Virginia. Hopeful migrants were duped into signing as indentured servants, unaware they would become personal property who could be bought, sold, and even gambled away. Transported convicts were paraded for sale like livestock.

Drawing on letters crying for help, diaries, and court and government archives, Don Jordan and Michael Walsh demonstrate that the brutalities usually associated with black slavery alone were perpetrated on whites throughout British rule. The trade ended with American independence, but the British still tried to sell convicts in their former colonies, which prompted one of the most audacious plots in Anglo-American history.

This is a saga of exploration and cruelty spanning 170 years that has been submerged under the overwhelming memory of black slavery. White Cargo brings the brutal, uncomfortable story to the surface.'White Cargo

Thanks for the details. I know it wasn't by any means an idyllic existence, but their children were not property and there was a way out at the end of their servitude--and courts to hold owners to their obligations.
I don't really think it is accurate to refer to them as "slaves." They have a name, "indentured servants." Use it.

Politically correct bullshit.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

Willful ignorance...

 

[MacTheKnife]

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

First of all Indentured Servitude was institutionalized.

Slavery was thousands of years old...and is still practiced in certain areas in Africa and China.

Plantations required cheap labor to survive much as today the produce farmers in Calif. and elsewhere need cheap labor to survive aka illegal mexican labor....I think calling them greedy is a mischaracterization--if you do not allow farmers to make a profit you will go hungry and eventually starve....like they did in Russia and China at various times under communism....now you want to talk about discrimination....another topic. This thread is about indentured servitude.

And you try and make a big deal out of the so-called contracts which were nothing but a piece of paper and no one enforced them...it was left up to the master whether or not he wanted to live up to it....He had absolute power over his servants/slaves...he could do what he wanted. Some of them as pointed out did live up to the contract but many, many more if not most did not. It was very easy to get around the contract....and as has been pointed out most of the servants/slaves died before their supposed time of release even came up...worked to death.

It is shameful how you attempt to lessen the harsh reality of that system by saying oh...they had a contract...they were not slaves...utter bullllshittttte!!!!! A worthless unenforceable contract such as those poor souls supposedly had was nothing more than a formality to enslave them by.

Your spurious claim of ignored facts rests on you ...and even more than that you do not understand the difference between bogus claims and reality.....the slave owners did not want to admit they held white slaves...but used the term 'indentured servitude' camouflage what was actually going on............slavery and a very cruel form....much worse than the black slavery that came later.....the blacks were not worked to death, were fed very well and had adequate clothing and shelter because they were considered property...and only a fool would mistreat his property.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

Ask the old lady about the Barbary Coast Slave Trade, or the Trans Sahara Slave Trade. She thinks white Europeans went to Africa with nets and kidnapped the Africans.

She does not know that nearly every black person shipped to the new word were already slaves. The Trans Sahara trade was going on for nearly 700 years before the Trans Atlantic even began.

LOL

They of course never discuss the Barbary Coast slave trade where nearly 1.5 million Europeans (WHITES) were enslaved, during BLACK HISTORY MONTH. (more left wing black patronizing month)

They of course never discuss the Trans Sahara Slave Trade during BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I wonder why.

As a result, we have people like Old Lady, all comfortable in their ignorance.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

His name was John Howland.

It is truly an amazing story. Yes, an indentured servant. I mean can you believe it? A white slave? Huh, I did not know they were allowed to be slaves. Go figure.

Aaaanyway, he was thrown overboard by powerful waves during the voyage of the Mayflower to the new world. He was somehow saved and this is what happened.



List of famous descendants.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt
President George H. W. Bush
President George W. Bush
Chevy Chase
Alexander 'Alec' Baldwin
Humphrey Bogart
Christopher Lloyd
Sarah Palin
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Benjamin Spock

Interesting history

Your white slave spin is incorrect though. An indenture is a contract that both sides willfully agree to

A unenforceable contract is no contract boyo.

what was actually going on............slavery and a very cruel form....much worse than the black slavery that came later.....the blacks were not worked to death, were fed very well and had adequate clothing and shelter because they were considered property...and only a fool would mistreat his property.
And you call me ignorant?

You prove it time and again....do you mistreat your property....does anyone? Only a fool. Do you deny the Africans were property in every legal sense?

Economists Robert Fogel and Stanly Engerman take a financial look at the practice of slavery. Their main argument is that it makes economic sense for a slaveholder to keep his slaves healthy. A healthy slave can do more work than a sick or beaten one can. Slave owners are in the business of making money and they want to avoid anything that would minimize their profit. This would include beating or harming slaves. In regards to renting out a slave, Fogel and Engerman note that an economic conscious slave owner would either not rent our his slave to someone who has a history of harming slaves. This would allow him to avoid the potential for damages to property. If he were to rent a slave out to someone like this, it would make economic sense to charge a high rate. This logic was taken into account by Thomas Ruffin when he made his decision in State v. Mann.

 

[Vastator]

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

First of all Indentured Servitude was institutionalized.

Slavery was thousands of years old...and is still practiced in certain areas in Africa and China.

Plantations required cheap labor to survive much as today the produce farmers in Calif. and elsewhere need cheap labor to survive aka illegal mexican labor....I think calling them greedy is a mischaracterization--if you do not allow farmers to make a profit you will go hungry and eventually starve....like they did in Russia and China at various times under communism....now you want to talk about discrimination....another topic. This thread is about indentured servitude.

And you try and make a big deal out of the so-called contracts which were nothing but a piece of paper and no one enforced them...it was left up to the master whether or not he wanted to live up to it....He had absolute power over his servants/slaves...he could do what he wanted. Some of them as pointed out did live up to the contract but many, many more if not most did not. It was very easy to get around the contract....and as has been pointed out most of the servants/slaves died before their supposed time of release even came up...worked to death.

It is shameful how you attempt to lessen the harsh reality of that system by saying oh...they had a contract...they were not slaves...utter bullllshittttte!!!!! A worthless unenforceable contract such as those poor souls supposedly had was nothing more than a formality to enslave them by.

Your spurious claim of ignored facts rests on you ...and even more than that you do not understand the difference between bogus claims and reality.....the slave owners did not want to admit they held white slaves...but used the term 'indentured servitude' camouflage what was actually going on............slavery and a very cruel form....much worse than the black slavery that came later.....the blacks were not worked to death, were fed very well and had adequate clothing and shelter because they were considered property...and only a fool would mistreat his property.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

I know about it, but I don't see that it lets anyone off the hook for the slave trade in this country. How does it? It's okay to buy slaves because someone else in a foreign country had already enslaved them? Alrighty, then. Great argument.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.

Okay. I see what you're up to. Dishonestly change "indentured servitude" to "slavery" to erroneously "prove" that being a "slave" doesn't make your descendants dysfunctional criminals, as some of you believe is the argument.

You're all ignorant as hell about slavery, or you wouldn't be comparing the two. What actually causes generational dysfunction happens to any group of humans who are stripped of their culture, traditions, belief systems, language and country, deprived of the right to have even a family safe from violation, and being totally powerless, generation after generation.

It is obviously making you racists feel a whole lot better though. OP tricked me with this one, but you brought it back to what was intended. See ya.

No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

His name was John Howland.

It is truly an amazing story. Yes, an indentured servant. I mean can you believe it? A white slave? Huh, I did not know they were allowed to be slaves. Go figure.

Aaaanyway, he was thrown overboard by powerful waves during the voyage of the Mayflower to the new world. He was somehow saved and this is what happened.



List of famous descendants.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt
President George H. W. Bush
President George W. Bush
Chevy Chase
Alexander 'Alec' Baldwin
Humphrey Bogart
Christopher Lloyd
Sarah Palin
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Benjamin Spock

Interesting history

Your white slave spin is incorrect though. An indenture is a contract that both sides willfully agree to

A unenforceable contract is no contract boyo.

what was actually going on............slavery and a very cruel form....much worse than the black slavery that came later.....the blacks were not worked to death, were fed very well and had adequate clothing and shelter because they were considered property...and only a fool would mistreat his property.
And you call me ignorant?

You prove it time and again....do you mistreat your property....does anyone? Only a fool. Do you deny the Africans were property in every legal sense?

The negros were most often treated better than the Irish. The negros had market value whereas the Irish did not.

 

[MacTheKnife]

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.
No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

First of all Indentured Servitude was institutionalized.

Slavery was thousands of years old...and is still practiced in certain areas in Africa and China.

Plantations required cheap labor to survive much as today the produce farmers in Calif. and elsewhere need cheap labor to survive aka illegal mexican labor....I think calling them greedy is a mischaracterization--if you do not allow farmers to make a profit you will go hungry and eventually starve....like they did in Russia and China at various times under communism....now you want to talk about discrimination....another topic. This thread is about indentured servitude.

And you try and make a big deal out of the so-called contracts which were nothing but a piece of paper and no one enforced them...it was left up to the master whether or not he wanted to live up to it....He had absolute power over his servants/slaves...he could do what he wanted. Some of them as pointed out did live up to the contract but many, many more if not most did not. It was very easy to get around the contract....and as has been pointed out most of the servants/slaves died before their supposed time of release even came up...worked to death.

It is shameful how you attempt to lessen the harsh reality of that system by saying oh...they had a contract...they were not slaves...utter bullllshittttte!!!!! A worthless unenforceable contract such as those poor souls supposedly had was nothing more than a formality to enslave them by.

Your spurious claim of ignored facts rests on you ...and even more than that you do not understand the difference between bogus claims and reality.....the slave owners did not want to admit they held white slaves...but used the term 'indentured servitude' camouflage what was actually going on............slavery and a very cruel form....much worse than the black slavery that came later.....the blacks were not worked to death, were fed very well and had adequate clothing and shelter because they were considered property...and only a fool would mistreat his property.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.
No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.
No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

My Dear, I think you misunderstand his point.
No, my Dear you are the one displaying ignorance/coinfusion.....in the real world things often are not what they are made up to be. Such is the case with so called Indentured Servitude.

Indentured Servitude was in reality just a cover for another form of slavery...there was supposedly a contract that guranteed the servant/slave some rights...however unfortunately in many if not most cases...these contracts were not enforced. There was no one to enforce them.

The servant/slave had no one to protect them or look out for them...the master was all powerful as all slave owners were......their servants/slaves were in reality at their complete mercy.

Luckily for some --they were bought by good masters who did not work them to death and let them go after they served the specified time....unfortunately most of them died before their supposed release date came up.

One half to two-thirds of all immigrants to Colonial America arrived as indentured servants. At times, as many as 75% of the population of some colonies were under the terms of indenture! Children were also indentured servants from the family they traveled with. The conditions of these indentured families were very harsh. The voyage overseas to this new land was filled with misery, stench, fumes, horror, vomit and stomach problems, sea sickness, fever, dysentery, heat and mouth-rot. Most problems arose from the old and sharply salted meat they were given to eat along with the foul drinking water. Most died before even seeing their new country. Once they reached this new land, conditions were not that much better. Winters were harsh and summers were extremely hot. Instead of working in their accustomed trade, most were forced to work the field under horrible conditions. Their living quarters were small with only the essentials to live on. Food was always scarce. Many of the men were abused and taken advantage of. If they did not perform their duties to their master's wish, their contract time/fee was extended to longer times/fines. Many men would escape for their freedom. The Virginia Colony courts realize their servants were escaping. They came up with a system using Identification Cards for documenting these servants and required these ID cards for travel. This made it more difficult for escape as his master would keep his ID card. It also made the indentured servant more like property, so they were traded or sold using this card system. Gradually, as time went by, the typical indentured servant became scarce. They served their term, bought their freedom or escaped. The farmers had to find a way to ease their labor shortage. Eventually, the final attempt to ease labor shortages was enslavement of Africans. Wherever you find slavery, you first find indentured servants.

I am not denying what has been said about indentured servitude and the abuses to the system made by greedy men out to make the fastest buck they could. All I am objecting to is equating it with institutionalized slavery, which had no contract and never ended, even for its descendants. We did not discriminate against the descendants of those indentured servants for so many generations, even after slavery was abolished, that laws had to be passed forcing equitable dealings. I am not "missing" anything. I am including a whole other list of facts that OP is for some reason ignoring. I still don't understand exactly why.

His name was John Howland.

It is truly an amazing story. Yes, an indentured servant. I mean can you believe it? A white slave? Huh, I did not know they were allowed to be slaves. Go figure.

Aaaanyway, he was thrown overboard by powerful waves during the voyage of the Mayflower to the new world. He was somehow saved and this is what happened.



List of famous descendants.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt
President George H. W. Bush
President George W. Bush
Chevy Chase
Alexander 'Alec' Baldwin
Humphrey Bogart
Christopher Lloyd
Sarah Palin
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Benjamin Spock

Interesting history

Your white slave spin is incorrect though. An indenture is a contract that both sides willfully agree to

A unenforceable contract is no contract boyo.

what was actually going on............slavery and a very cruel form....much worse than the black slavery that came later.....the blacks were not worked to death, were fed very well and had adequate clothing and shelter because they were considered property...and only a fool would mistreat his property.
And you call me ignorant?

You prove it time and again....do you mistreat your property....does anyone? Only a fool. Do you deny the Africans were property in every legal sense?

The negros were most often treated better than the Irish. The negros had market value whereas the Irish did not.

A plantation owners wealth was measured by how many slaves he had. There is so much ignorance about slavery....both white and black slavery. The progressives usually know nothing about slavery they have not gleaned from hollywood movies or from some incompetent p.c. public school so called teacher.

'Wage slavery is a term used to draw an analogy between slavery and wage labor by focusing on similarities between owning and renting a person. It is usually used to refer to a situation where a person's livelihood depends on wages or a salary, especially when the dependence is total and immediate.

The term "wage slavery" has been used to criticize exploitation of labour and social stratification, with the former seen primarily as unequal bargaining power between labor and capital (particularly when workers are paid comparatively low wages, e.g. in sweatshops)and the latter as a lack of workers' self-management, fulfilling job choices and leisure in an economy. The criticism of social stratification covers a wider range of employment choices bound by the pressures of a hierarchical society to perform otherwise unfulfilling work that deprives humans of their "species character"not only under threat of starvation or poverty, but also of social stigma and status diminution.

Similarities between wage labor and slavery were noted as early as Cicero in Ancient Rome, such as in De Officiis. With the advent of the Industrial Revolution, thinkers such as Pierre-Joseph Proudhon and Karl Marx elaborated the comparison between wage labor and slavery, while Luddites emphasized the dehumanization brought about by machines. Before the American Civil War, Southern defenders of African American slavery invoked the concept of wage slavery to favorably compare the condition of their slaves to workers in the North.

The United States abolished slavery after the Civil War, but labor union activists found the metaphor useful and appropriate. According to Lawrence Glickman, in the Gilded Age "[r]eferences abounded in the labor press, and it is hard to find a speech by a labor leader without the phrase".

The introduction of wage labor in 18th-century Britain was met with resistance, giving rise to the principles of syndicalism. Historically, some labor organizations and individual social activists have espoused workers' self-management or worker cooperatives as possible alternatives to wage labor'

Wage slavery - Wikipedia

 

[RodISHI]

That is the spiel and many think of them somewhat like those characteers in the T.V. series upstairs downstair where the servants were treated like family...very kindly and the master was just so genteel.

Reality is quite different....and though many,many Americans can over as indentured servants...most do not even know that and know even less about the very harsh conditions they endured.

First of all they had no legal rights....they were at the mercy of their master...some were good...many if not most were not. They were supposed to be released after 7 yrs. but often this was not the case...the master would scheme to keep them in his debt and then force them to keep working to supposedly pay off the debt.

'In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, more than 300,000 white people were shipped to America as slaves. Urchins were swept up from London’s streets to labor in the tobacco fields, where life expectancy was no more than two years. Brothels were raided to provide “breeders” for Virginia. Hopeful migrants were duped into signing as indentured servants, unaware they would become personal property who could be bought, sold, and even gambled away. Transported convicts were paraded for sale like livestock.

Drawing on letters crying for help, diaries, and court and government archives, Don Jordan and Michael Walsh demonstrate that the brutalities usually associated with black slavery alone were perpetrated on whites throughout British rule. The trade ended with American independence, but the British still tried to sell convicts in their former colonies, which prompted one of the most audacious plots in Anglo-American history.

This is a saga of exploration and cruelty spanning 170 years that has been submerged under the overwhelming memory of black slavery. White Cargo brings the brutal, uncomfortable story to the surface.'White Cargo

Thanks for the details. I know it wasn't by any means an idyllic existence, but their children were not property and there was a way out at the end of their servitude--and courts to hold owners to their obligations.
I don't really think it is accurate to refer to them as "slaves." They have a name, "indentured servants." Use it.

Politically correct bullshit.

Show me where their children and all their descendants were sold into "indentured servitude."
Obviously they took their cases to court when greedy owners violated the contract, or we wouldn't know about them, would we?
My points aren't bullshit and calling indentured servants "slaves" is not accurate.
I still want to know why you insist.

Sadly, A Great Many Of Them Were Mistreated And Died

Working on a plantation was difficult work. Many indentured servants were overworked, and, when they were even remotely insubordinate, they were beaten. This violence – along with disease – led to a high mortality rate among indentured servants. Some masters also sexually assaulted their female servants or beat them to death. In fact, there were instances where some servants organized protests for the way they were treated... only to be hanged in response.

All I can say is, it's a damned good thing someone invented tractors and harvesters, because if they weren't around, there would still be greedy, immoral capitalists using their fellow humans as disposable livestock. Probably actual slavery, too.

There are still employers that believe that employees are property and try to treat them as such. There will always be assholes around in the world. Lessons to be learn by young and gullible people too. My very first job outside of family, neighbors or friend the guy tried to tell me I could not quit. He even threatened to call the police and told me I could not leave the property with his uniform on so I may as well get to work. I had to consider it all and mull it over in my mind asking self if there was anything illegal about quitting a job. The guy kept on saying the same bullshit over and over. He made a verbal agreement with me when I took the job and now had backed out on it telling me, "Your problems are not my problems". He was yelling at the point I told him for the third time I was no longer in his employment. After he told me how he didn't have anyone else to work that shift I told him his own words back, "Your problems are not my problems". He then again threatened to call the police if I left the building with his uniform on. I kept telling him I would bring it back in the morning and that wasn't good enough for him so I took a deep breath (wishing silently I wasn't so damn poor that I couldn't afford a slip) and proceeded to unzip the uniform to take it off and give it back to him. I knew it was going to be awful embarrassing to walk out of that place with only bra and panties on but I was not willing to stay one more minute in that place. Lots of asses in this old world that live outside the gates. A few years later I was called to that same business and asked to paint the windows for them. I told the guy you betch ya. I charged them double of what I would have charged anyone else and made a lil over a hundred dollars an hour. That was back in the 80's.

 

[Marion Morrison]

His name was John Howland.

It is truly an amazing story. Yes, an indentured servant. I mean can you believe it? A white slave? Huh, I did not know they were allowed to be slaves. Go figure.

Aaaanyway, he was thrown overboard by powerful waves during the voyage of the Mayflower to the new world. He was somehow saved and this is what happened.



List of famous descendants.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt
President George H. W. Bush
President George W. Bush
Chevy Chase
Alexander 'Alec' Baldwin
Humphrey Bogart
Christopher Lloyd
Sarah Palin
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Benjamin Spock

It's nice to see something different and besides for a change, thanks!