The 47% Strawman

[Skull Pilot]

The average 'poor' person who is paying no federal income taxes is probably using exemptions, deductions, and credits to knock 2 or 3 or 4 thousand dollars off his tax bill.

Compare that to a rich person who uses a variety of the same to knock 10 or 20 or 30 or 100 thousand off his tax bill,

then tell us who's getting the freer ride.

And many are also using refundable tax credits to receive more money back than they paid in.

Just getting rid of those will put a nice dent in the deficit.

The tax code should not be an income redistribution tool

 

[RDD_1210]

The average 'poor' person who is paying no federal income taxes is probably using exemptions, deductions, and credits to knock 2 or 3 or 4 thousand dollars off his tax bill.

Compare that to a rich person who uses a variety of the same to knock 10 or 20 or 30 or 100 thousand off his tax bill,

then tell us who's getting the freer ride.

And many are also using refundable tax credits to receive more money back than they paid in.

Just getting rid of those will put a nice dent in the deficit.

The tax code should not be an income redistribution tool

Like it has been for years, sending money to the top.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The average 'poor' person who is paying no federal income taxes is probably using exemptions, deductions, and credits to knock 2 or 3 or 4 thousand dollars off his tax bill.

Compare that to a rich person who uses a variety of the same to knock 10 or 20 or 30 or 100 thousand off his tax bill,

then tell us who's getting the freer ride.

And many are also using refundable tax credits to receive more money back than they paid in.

Just getting rid of those will put a nice dent in the deficit.

The tax code should not be an income redistribution tool

Like it has been for years, sending money to the top.

How many rich people get more back in taxes than they pay in?

You have yet to prove that the tax code takes money from the poor and gives it to the so called rich.

So why don't you prove it now?

 

[RDD_1210]

And many are also using refundable tax credits to receive more money back than they paid in.

Just getting rid of those will put a nice dent in the deficit.

The tax code should not be an income redistribution tool

Like it has been for years, sending money to the top.

How many rich people get more back in taxes than they pay in?

You have yet to prove that the tax code takes money from the poor and gives it to the so called rich.

So why don't you prove it now?

The bank bailouts come to mind.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ah. Too daft to tackle more than one example or idea at a time? Okay, lemme dumb it down for ya there, Junior.

First, there is a point abot depreciating things. This is where you made a counter about "unmovable, useless machinery" etc... and I retorted with the fact that 150 laptops could probably be both moved and used - which you have now dodged.

Then there was another point. It is a "different" point. It displays how Forrest Labs, makes billions off Lexapro and by opening a facility in Ireland, pays ZERO taxes on all those profits. I think this is not good! What do you think? Hmmm. Better go look in your Little Book of Conserv Replies. Uh oh. Might not have on in there for either of these points.

I suggest you keep dodging!

The single point I am arguing here is that no company gets a tax break for outsourcing jobs, and I challenged you to prove otherwise. Rather than admit that, after talking to your CPA you found out that I was right that no one actually gets a tax break for moving jobs overseas you are making thing up.

BS. I proved you wrong. A tax break is any deduction a person or company would not receive in the normal course of business. The accelartion of depreciation is a "break". If you were just a liiiitle bit smarter, you would realize this but I know - in your case, ideology trumps intellect. Got it.

Depreciation is not a tax break for moving jobs overseas. If the tax code allow a business to accelerate the depreciation of laptops after they move a business from Illinois to Arizona it is wrong, but it is far from the dumbest thing in the tax code.

Guess who else does not pay taxes on profits they make in Iceland? Icelandic Air. My question is, why should they? Do you think the US should be able to level taxes on other countries? Does that mean Iceland should be able to force you to pay taxes because you have a business in the US?

Your desperation is showing, you are making less sense every time you post.

Dude are you REALLY that daft? I really don't think I can dumb this down any more:

All Lexapro is produced in the USA
All Lexapro is sold in the USA
All profits are made in the USA.
Zero taxes are paid on those profits in the USA.
They are "offshored" through a loophole known as the Double Irish (Not Iceland genius).

You were saying?

Let me get this straight, even though this has nothing to do with offshore jobs at all you are holding this up as an example of offshoring jobs and getting a tax credit for it? I am even more confused than I was before.

If you want to complain about the complexity of the tax code please let me know, I can provide a lot more examples than you can. If, on the other hand, your complaining is a tax credit you still haven't found, please stop complaining about other things.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The average 'poor' person who is paying no federal income taxes is probably using exemptions, deductions, and credits to knock 2 or 3 or 4 thousand dollars off his tax bill.

Compare that to a rich person who uses a variety of the same to knock 10 or 20 or 30 or 100 thousand off his tax bill,

then tell us who's getting the freer ride.

Not only that - the rich man writes a check to the government while the government writes a check to the poor man.

The rich pay money.

The poor receive money.

The governments wont take money unless you earn X amount.

This is exactly what I was talking about: The Rich vs. The Poor. That's the strawman because the issue isn't Rich vs. Poor, it's Rich vs. Middle to Upper-Middle Class.

I don't dispute the poor get money from the government and pay no taxes. This is a given. BUT the Rich and corporations are able to use tax breaks that are specifically designed only to benefit them.
Now. I don't think the rich should pay a higher marginal rate. Are we clear? I don't think they should be punished just for being rich. Is this clear? I ask only because so many people immediately jump on the dichotomy.
What I think is:
We should eliminate corporate and individual tax breaks that only the rich can use and are just plain unfair. An example of this would be like deferred comp or SO's breaks. Can you live on 10% of your income? Most people can't. So if the COO at GE is GUARANTEED $20M in income this year, but has it deferred and then shuffled through trusts etc... so that he ends up paying 1/3 of what a guy making $70K makes, is that fair? Or if he is given Stock Options worth $10M but not taxed on them, how is that something the gal working at Denny's could ever have access to.
Yes it's all legal. My point is that it shouldn't be. It's a sham.
As a business owner, I get to deduct my car, computers etc...
As a citizen, I used to get the same breaks as businesses! This spurred buying! Then they took all those deductions away. This gave us a Recession!
I would like to see the playing field leveled.

And what we give major international companies that ship jobs overseas, while ignoring the great American small to medium sized businesses that hire 100% American and pay their taxes 100% in America, is just plain bullshit.

Our tax code is screwed. It most helps those who need the least help. It least helps those who need the most help and can contribute the most (No, NOT the poor!).
We need to change our tax code.

Actually, since the rich cannot posssibly foot the bill for the givernment, it is the poor against the middle class. Go check the numbers, the middle class pays over 80% of the taxes in the country.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Like it has been for years, sending money to the top.

How many rich people get more back in taxes than they pay in?

You have yet to prove that the tax code takes money from the poor and gives it to the so called rich.

So why don't you prove it now?

The bank bailouts come to mind.

So now a bank is a person?

And if the so called poor people who have paid no income taxes or get welfare via income taxes didn't pay any taxes after the bailouts then the money was not taken from them was it?

 

[RDD_1210]

How many rich people get more back in taxes than they pay in?

You have yet to prove that the tax code takes money from the poor and gives it to the so called rich.

So why don't you prove it now?

The bank bailouts come to mind.

So now a bank is a person?

And if the so called poor people who have paid no income taxes or get welfare via income taxes didn't pay any taxes after the bailouts then the money was not taken from them was it?

Sure, I was told corporations are people. You love playing the semantics game don't you? Is that your fall back when you have nothing else? You know full well what I meant, yet you had to be an ass about. Well done.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The bank bailouts come to mind.

So now a bank is a person?

And if the so called poor people who have paid no income taxes or get welfare via income taxes didn't pay any taxes after the bailouts then the money was not taken from them was it?

Sure, I was told corporations are people. You love playing the semantics game don't you? Is that your fall back when you have nothing else? You know full well what I meant, yet you had to be an ass about. Well done.

I have never subscribed to the corporations are people argument but funny that's what you fall back on.

 

[edthecynic]

Why instead of "guessing" USE the internet and find the following TAX LOOPHOLES used to reduce the tax payments!

In 2008 - these are the specific deductions
1) $131 billion - Exclusion of employer medical insurance premiums and medical care
2) $117 billion - Net exclusion of pension contributions and earnings
3) $88 - Mortgage interest on owner-occupied homes
4) $55 - Accelerated depreciation of machinery and equipment
5) $49 - Deductibility of non business state and local taxes
6) $46 - Deductibility of charitable contributions
7) $31 - Deferral of income from controlled foreign corporations
8) $30 - Capital gains exclusion on home sales
9) $29 - Deductibility of State and local property tax on owner-occupied homes
10) $28 - Child credit
11) $24 - Capital gains (except agriculture,timber, and coal)
12) $21 - Step-up basis of capital gains at death

What are the largest tax expenditures?


OBAMA took less the 14% of his $1.7 million taxable income in donations! LOOP HOLE!
OBAMA has written off an average of $100,000 a YEAR EACH YEAR for NOL! LOOP HOLE!

NOW you Obama.."tax the millionaires,billionaires???
AGAIN go to the FACTS from the IRS and see what people pay in Federal TAXES!

SOI Tax Stats - Individual Statistical Tables by Size of Adjusted Gross Income

You will if YOU TAKE THE TIME AS I have that:
THOSE FILTHY EVIL people that stole $5 million to $10 million or more a year???
those 14,236 people PAID 29.1% of their INCOME in taxes!!!

THESE filthy evil people PAID THE LARGEST percentage of taxable income of the 140 million returns!

Oh come on now, even your MessiahRushie admits the filthy rich pay no income tax. Your numbers are only for WAGE EARNERS, wage earners pay the highest taxes not the wealthy! The filthy rich do not work for the common wage.

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

The Truth About Taxes
August 6, 2007
RUSH: I've told you before: the income tax is designed to keep people like his [Buffett's] secretary from becoming wealthy! There is no "wealth" tax. So this is a big misnomer. ...
But there's no tax on wealth. There is a tax on income, and the tax on income is designed to keep everybody who is not wealthy from getting there.

I'm talking about genuine wealth, not the way Democrats define "rich."

 

[RDD_1210]

So now a bank is a person?

And if the so called poor people who have paid no income taxes or get welfare via income taxes didn't pay any taxes after the bailouts then the money was not taken from them was it?

Sure, I was told corporations are people. You love playing the semantics game don't you? Is that your fall back when you have nothing else? You know full well what I meant, yet you had to be an ass about. Well done.

I have never subscribed to the corporations are people argument but funny that's what you fall back on.

Of course you haven't. Just another person who's argument changes conveniently depending on the situation. Must be nice.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The bank bailouts come to mind.

So now a bank is a person?

And if the so called poor people who have paid no income taxes or get welfare via income taxes didn't pay any taxes after the bailouts then the money was not taken from them was it?

Sure, I was told corporations are people. You love playing the semantics game don't you? Is that your fall back when you have nothing else? You know full well what I meant, yet you had to be an ass about. Well done.

I was told the moon is made of green cheese. I happen to be intelligent enough to examine the facts and discover that the person who told me that was pulling my leg. Hopefully you will learn to examine the facts and make up your own mind about the facts someday, until you do I advise you to keep your mouth shut about things you do not understand.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sure, I was told corporations are people. You love playing the semantics game don't you? Is that your fall back when you have nothing else? You know full well what I meant, yet you had to be an ass about. Well done.

I have never subscribed to the corporations are people argument but funny that's what you fall back on.

Of course you haven't. Just another person who's argument changes conveniently depending on the situation. Must be nice.

Show me where I have ever said corporations are people.

My positions are more consistent than yours.

 

[RDD_1210]

So now a bank is a person?

And if the so called poor people who have paid no income taxes or get welfare via income taxes didn't pay any taxes after the bailouts then the money was not taken from them was it?

Sure, I was told corporations are people. You love playing the semantics game don't you? Is that your fall back when you have nothing else? You know full well what I meant, yet you had to be an ass about. Well done.

I was told the moon is made of green cheese. I happen to be intelligent enough to examine the facts and discover that the person who told me that was pulling my leg. Hopefully you will learn to examine the facts and make up your own mind about the facts someday, until you do I advise you to keep your mouth shut about things you do not understand.

This is amazing coming from you. Truly.

 

[RDD_1210]

I have never subscribed to the corporations are people argument but funny that's what you fall back on.

Of course you haven't. Just another person who's argument changes conveniently depending on the situation. Must be nice.

Show me where I have ever said corporations are people.

My positions are more consistent than yours.

LOL, sure they are.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Of course you haven't. Just another person who's argument changes conveniently depending on the situation. Must be nice.

Show me where I have ever said corporations are people.

My positions are more consistent than yours.

LOL, sure they are.

Back up your mouth asswipe.

Show me where I have ever supported the corporations are people meme.

 

[RDD_1210]

Show me where I have ever said corporations are people.

My positions are more consistent than yours.

LOL, sure they are.

Back up your mouth asswipe.

Show me where I have ever supported the corporations are people meme.

Right after you show me how your positions are more consistent than mine.

 

[Skull Pilot]

LOL, sure they are.

Back up your mouth asswipe.

Show me where I have ever supported the corporations are people meme.

Right after you show me how your positions are more consistent than mine.

You showed me in this very thread when you started using the corps are people argument

 

[RDD_1210]

Back up your mouth asswipe.

Show me where I have ever supported the corporations are people meme.

Right after you show me how your positions are more consistent than mine.

You showed me in this very thread when you started using the corps are people argument

LOL. THATS your evidence? Jesus, why do I even bother. The point was sarcasm highlighting the ridiculousness of that notion, but ok.... I'll play your game. Where did I ever say corporations weren't people then? Where is my inconsistency?

This should be good.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Right after you show me how your positions are more consistent than mine.

You showed me in this very thread when you started using the corps are people argument

LOL. THATS your evidence? Jesus, why do I even bother. The point was sarcasm highlighting the ridiculousness of that notion, but ok.... I'll play your game. Where did I ever say corporations weren't people then? Where is my inconsistency?

This should be good.

Hey fucknut you accused me of changing my position so the onus of proof is on you not me.