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The 2012 Election & Thomas Jefferson

PLYMCO_PILGRIM

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Jefferson said:
"I do not know whether it is to yourself or Mr. Adams I am to give my thanks for the copy of the new constitution. I beg leave through you to place them where due. It will be yet three weeks before I shall receive them from America. There are very good articles in it: and very bad. I do not know which preponderate.

What we have lately read in the history of Holland, in the chapter on the Stadtholder, would have sufficed to set me against a Chief magistrate eligible for a long duration, if I had ever been disposed towards one: and what we have always read of the elections of Polish kings should have forever excluded the idea of one continuable for life. Wonderful is the effect of impudent and persevering lying. The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, and what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves.

Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusets? And can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness.

God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13 states independant 11 years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state.

What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusets: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen yard in order. I hope in god this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted."

- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, Paris, 13 Nov. 1787

I feel that the things Jefferson said sort of ring true today....the one part that really struck me and seemed to mimick the 2012 election for me was this "The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.".

Basically I take this as motivation to not be silent about what I think is a bunch of misinformation being fed to the partisans of both parties, its time for some truth to see the light of day in the public and the media.
 
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Dante

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And Jefferson later came to his senses and regretted ever writing such nonsense. :laugh2:

Jefferson was later embarrassed because he had supported the crazy blood lust and murder and mayhem of the French Revolution

people like PeePeePoop need to read history, not cliff notes and quotation pages
 
OP
PLYMCO_PILGRIM

PLYMCO_PILGRIM

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And Jefferson later came to his senses and regretted ever writing such nonsense. :laugh2:

Jefferson was later embarrassed because he had supported the crazy blood lust and murder and mayhem of the French Revolution

people like PeePeePoop need to read history, not cliff notes and quotation pages

LOL I've read several books on Jefferson..most recently "Jefferson's War"

Keep on being an ignorant troll though.
 

LadyGunSlinger

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And Jefferson later came to his senses and regretted ever writing such nonsense. :laugh2:

Jefferson was later embarrassed because he had supported the crazy blood lust and murder and mayhem of the French Revolution

people like PeePeePoop need to read history, not cliff notes and quotation pages

LOL I've read several books on Jefferson..most recently "Jefferson's War"

Keep on being an ignorant troll though.

He cannot refute history so he makes up a bunch of propaganda to serve his librul purpose. It's done all the time here.. I don't know who he thinks he's fooling?
 

rightwinger

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"The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.".



Founding Fathers' dirty campaign - CNN

Negative campaigning in America was sired by two lifelong friends, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. Back in 1776, the dynamic duo combined powers to help claim America's independence, and they had nothing but love and respect for one another. But by 1800, party politics had so distanced the pair that, for the first and last time in U.S. history, a president found himself running against his vice president.

Things got ugly fast. Jefferson's camp accused President Adams of having a "hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman."

In return, Adams' men called Vice President Jefferson "a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father."

As the slurs piled on, Adams was labeled a fool, a hypocrite, a criminal, and a tyrant, while Jefferson was branded a weakling, an atheist, a libertine, and a coward.
 
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Si modo

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Jefferson said:
"I do not know whether it is to yourself or Mr. Adams I am to give my thanks for the copy of the new constitution. I beg leave through you to place them where due. It will be yet three weeks before I shall receive them from America. There are very good articles in it: and very bad. I do not know which preponderate.

What we have lately read in the history of Holland, in the chapter on the Stadtholder, would have sufficed to set me against a Chief magistrate eligible for a long duration, if I had ever been disposed towards one: and what we have always read of the elections of Polish kings should have forever excluded the idea of one continuable for life. Wonderful is the effect of impudent and persevering lying. The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, and what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves.

Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusets? And can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness.

God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13 states independant 11 years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state.

What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusets: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen yard in order. I hope in god this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted."

- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, Paris, 13 Nov. 1787

I feel that the things Jefferson said sort of ring true today....the one part that really struck me and seemed to mimick the 2012 election for me was this "The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.".

Basically I take this as motivation to not be silent about what I think is a bunch of misinformation being fed to the partisans of both parties, its time for some truth to see the light of day in the public and the media.
This, too:

The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, and what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves.
 
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PLYMCO_PILGRIM

PLYMCO_PILGRIM

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And Jefferson later came to his senses and regretted ever writing such nonsense. :laugh2:

Jefferson was later embarrassed because he had supported the crazy blood lust and murder and mayhem of the French Revolution

people like PeePeePoop need to read history, not cliff notes and quotation pages

LOL I've read several books on Jefferson..most recently "Jefferson's War"

Keep on being an ignorant troll though.

He cannot refute history so he makes up a bunch of propaganda to serve his librul purpose. It's done all the time here.. I don't know who he thinks he's fooling?

Nelli is just one of my fanboy stalkers, his ignorant trolling and random neg-reps out of frustration amuse me.
 
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PLYMCO_PILGRIM

PLYMCO_PILGRIM

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Jefferson said:
"I do not know whether it is to yourself or Mr. Adams I am to give my thanks for the copy of the new constitution. I beg leave through you to place them where due. It will be yet three weeks before I shall receive them from America. There are very good articles in it: and very bad. I do not know which preponderate.

What we have lately read in the history of Holland, in the chapter on the Stadtholder, would have sufficed to set me against a Chief magistrate eligible for a long duration, if I had ever been disposed towards one: and what we have always read of the elections of Polish kings should have forever excluded the idea of one continuable for life. Wonderful is the effect of impudent and persevering lying. The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, and what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves.

Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusets? And can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness.

God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13 states independant 11 years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state.

What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusets: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen yard in order. I hope in god this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted."

- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, Paris, 13 Nov. 1787

I feel that the things Jefferson said sort of ring true today....the one part that really struck me and seemed to mimick the 2012 election for me was this "The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.".

Basically I take this as motivation to not be silent about what I think is a bunch of misinformation being fed to the partisans of both parties, its time for some truth to see the light of day in the public and the media.
This, too:

The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, and what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves.

Just swap British Ministry with Main Stream media and there you have it.

I find it sad when history repeats itself but we are too uninformed to see it.
 

Dante

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And Jefferson later came to his senses and regretted ever writing such nonsense. :laugh2:

Jefferson was later embarrassed because he had supported the crazy blood lust and murder and mayhem of the French Revolution

people like PeePeePoop need to read history, not cliff notes and quotation pages

LOL I've read several books on Jefferson..most recently "Jefferson's War"

Keep on being an ignorant troll though.

you evidently missed the parts where history proves Jefferson later came to regret his imbecilities
 

g5000

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The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive.

Sounds like he is talking about Fox News! :badgrin:

.
 

g5000

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And Jefferson later came to his senses and regretted ever writing such nonsense. :laugh2:

Jefferson was later embarrassed because he had supported the crazy blood lust and murder and mayhem of the French Revolution

people like PeePeePoop need to read history, not cliff notes and quotation pages

LOL I've read several books on Jefferson..most recently "Jefferson's War"

Keep on being an ignorant troll though.

If you have not read it, then I highly recommend Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville.

.
 

Si modo

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Who knew that valuing protest and the opposition was "imbecilic"?

We need to amend the Constitution.
 

rightwinger

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And Jefferson later came to his senses and regretted ever writing such nonsense. :laugh2:

Jefferson was later embarrassed because he had supported the crazy blood lust and murder and mayhem of the French Revolution

people like PeePeePoop need to read history, not cliff notes and quotation pages

LOL I've read several books on Jefferson..most recently "Jefferson's War"

Keep on being an ignorant troll though.

He cannot refute history so he makes up a bunch of propaganda to serve his librul purpose. It's done all the time here.. I don't know who he thinks he's fooling?

What are you doing here?

bodecea is looking for you. Something about paying up on a signature bet
 

g5000

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"The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.".



Founding Fathers' dirty campaign - CNN

Negative campaigning in America was sired by two lifelong friends, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. Back in 1776, the dynamic duo combined powers to help claim America's independence, and they had nothing but love and respect for one another. But by 1800, party politics had so distanced the pair that, for the first and last time in U.S. history, a president found himself running against his vice president.

Things got ugly fast. Jefferson's camp accused President Adams of having a "hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman."

In return, Adams' men called Vice President Jefferson "a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father."

As the slurs piled on, Adams was labeled a fool, a hypocrite, a criminal, and a tyrant, while Jefferson was branded a weakling, an atheist, a libertine, and a coward.

My favorite was when, during the 1824 election, Jackson was smeared by his opponents who claimed his mother was the British Army's whore during the Revolution.

I have frequently mentioned that as the low water mark of American electioneering. And then just a couple weeks before this past election, rumors started being spread about Obama's mother being a prostitute.

So this election is now tied for worst.

.
 

Dante

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Who knew that valuing protest and the opposition was "imbecilic"?

We need to amend the Constitution.

you obviously missed the parts about the violence, murder and mayhem of the French Revolution and Jefferson's early support of it, that imbeciles here at USMB and other places use to justify and give credence to ignorant and ill-informed premises for their idiotic arguments

stop saying anyone here thinks protest and opposition is imbecilic. :cuckoo:
 

Si modo

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"The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.".



Founding Fathers' dirty campaign - CNN

Negative campaigning in America was sired by two lifelong friends, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. Back in 1776, the dynamic duo combined powers to help claim America's independence, and they had nothing but love and respect for one another. But by 1800, party politics had so distanced the pair that, for the first and last time in U.S. history, a president found himself running against his vice president.

Things got ugly fast. Jefferson's camp accused President Adams of having a "hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman."

In return, Adams' men called Vice President Jefferson "a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father."

As the slurs piled on, Adams was labeled a fool, a hypocrite, a criminal, and a tyrant, while Jefferson was branded a weakling, an atheist, a libertine, and a coward.

My favorite was when, during the 1824 election, Jackson was smeared by his opponents who claimed his mother was the British Army's whore during the Revolution.

I have frequently mentioned that as the low water mark of American electioneering. And then just a couple weeks before this past election, rumors started being spread about Obama's mother being a prostitute.

So this election is now tied for worst.

.
I don't conflate a candidate doing a smear and a goober on the net doing a smear.

But, that's just me, perhaps.

Regardless of all this, Jefferson's message is clear.

But, let's smear Jefferson because that's much better than looking at the message. :thup:
 

Si modo

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Who knew that valuing protest and the opposition was "imbecilic"?

We need to amend the Constitution.

you obviously missed the parts about the violence, murder and mayhem of the French Revolution and Jefferson's early support of it, that imbeciles here at USMB and other places use to justify and give credence to ignorant and ill-informed premises for their idiotic arguments

stop saying anyone here thinks protest and opposition is imbecilic. :cuckoo:
Meh. The French Revolution was a clusterfuck.

I'm looking more at the message of this particular communication. Jefferson has a point...many of them.

Liberty isn't free. What is liberty without a rebellion from time to time (the Mass rebellion in particular)? What lies politicians tell to the masses? What the masses actually come to believe?

Too bad we don't focus on logic and critical thought in our education, at least any longer. It's a great plan for the few powerful men, and by design.
 

Dante

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Who knew that valuing protest and the opposition was "imbecilic"?

We need to amend the Constitution.

you obviously missed the parts about the violence, murder and mayhem of the French Revolution and Jefferson's early support of it, that imbeciles here at USMB and other places use to justify and give credence to ignorant and ill-informed premises for their idiotic arguments

stop saying anyone here thinks protest and opposition is imbecilic. :cuckoo:
Meh. The French Revolution was a clusterfuck.1)

I'm looking more at the message of this particular communication. Jefferson has a point...many of them.

2) Liberty isn't free. What is liberty without a rebellion from time to time (the Mass rebellion in particular)? What lies politicians tell to the masses? What the masses actually come to believe?

Too bad we don't focus on logic and critical thought in our education, at least any longer. It's a great plan for the few powerful men, and by design.

1) :lol:

2) The Massachusetts rebellion was crazy. And the problems that brought about the discontent came from the trouble of having a weak national government. States rights folks would do well to actually read what Shay's rebellion and the Whiskey rebellion were all about and what preceded them.

Funny how people like the Tea Party Imbeciles speak about representation and revolution. The Declaration of Independence was about not having representation, not about having lost every election and complaining about representation.

After the Revolutionary War, the former Colonists under the Article of Confederation, and later Americans under the United States Constitution, had representation.
 

Chris

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Jefferson believed in the seperation of church and state.

Jefferson would be a Democrat today.
 

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