That Ugly "A" Word Again..."Apartheid."

[sealadaigh]

What Israel actually needs to do is implement the "real one state solution". Namely they need to lay claim over land they justly conquered in past wars and deport the population to countries where they belong, like Jordan. No other country would put up with the terrorist crap that Israel has had to put up with. Telling Uncle to stick it would go a long way here.

that really wasn't the question, rabbi.

do you really think ethnic cleansing, acts of genocide, and the violation of numerous internationaal laws and conventions is a good idea? i have run across a lot of jewish people and some gentiles who think that that is the way to go until you put it in those simple but accurate terms. i think the long term efects of such a "real one state" final solution would be disasterous for israel and cause a backlash against jewish people worldwide.

not very practical either. i think it would be easier to ethnically cleanse the area of the jewish population than the palestinian population, despite the great strides already put forth to accomplish the latter...and not to mention the positive long term effects would be more enduring.

but like i said, i think ethnic cleansing is not the way to achieve peace. the question was, i think...lol...was that palestinian officials have expressed a desire to sit down and negotiate and israeli officials have refused and i can see no reason why they should not sit down at the table, given their claim that peace is what they want.

 

[sealadaigh]

The term "apartheid" is also a bit rash.. There are 17 current ARAB members of the Knesset.. The Arabs have ALWAYS had representation in Israel governance.

It's hard to be speaking in apartheid terms when there is no evidence that Arab citizens of Israel proper haven't been incorporated.

What do you call "jew only" roads? What do you call the "Nakba Law"? What do you call the Minister of the Interior saying there should be segregation between Israeli's and arabs?

That's not liberty and justice for all, that's apartheid.

Jew-roads exist because of Jewish deaths due to Palestinian terror.

The Nakba law is very much moral and needed. It says that Israel will not fund any organizations which deny its existence or state that Israel's establishment is a disaster.

Very much fair. Only those who are Jew haters see those kind of things "apartheid".

apartheid is a palestinian propaganda.

jewish only roads exist to accomodate land theft and an illegal occupation and to protect jewish colonizers from the righteous resistance of the indigenous arab population.

the nakba law looks like it is right out of the playbook of george III and how he was to deal with the american colonies. the nakba law goes considerably further than what you state and rivals the revisionist histories that jewish people frequently and rightfully complain about. it amounts to a suspension of the right to free speech that is the cornerstone of all true democracies. such a law should be an anathema to any and all citizens of a state claims to be "a light unto the nations" and "the only democracy in the mideast.

apartheid is a condition of unequal and discriminatory trearment against the indigenous arab population that exists in the state of israel, or so say nelson mandela and desmond tutu, nobel peace prize winners from the former apartheid state of south africa, as well as other nobel peace prize winners, notable human rights organisations, and etc. it seems more people of goodwill, intelligence, and influence have been using the word. some israelis claim it is palestinian propaganda. that doesn't make it any less true.

the question i had asked, and am not getting any luck with an answer is "if palestine haas made offers to sit down and negotiate, why has israel, who claims to want peace, refused to do so?"

 

[The Rabbi]

What Israel actually needs to do is implement the "real one state solution". Namely they need to lay claim over land they justly conquered in past wars and deport the population to countries where they belong, like Jordan. No other country would put up with the terrorist crap that Israel has had to put up with. Telling Uncle to stick it would go a long way here.

that really wasn't the question, rabbi.

do you really think ethnic cleansing, acts of genocide, and the violation of numerous internationaal laws and conventions is a good idea? i have run across a lot of jewish people and some gentiles who think that that is the way to go until you put it in those simple but accurate terms. i think the long term efects of such a "real one state" final solution would be disasterous for israel and cause a backlash against jewish people worldwide.

not very practical either. i think it would be easier to ethnically cleanse the area of the jewish population than the palestinian population, despite the great strides already put forth to accomplish the latter...and not to mention the positive long term effects would be more enduring.

but like i said, i think ethnic cleansing is not the way to achieve peace. the question was, i think...lol...was that palestinian officials have expressed a desire to sit down and negotiate and israeli officials have refused and i can see no reason why they should not sit down at the table, given their claim that peace is what they want.

Except we arent talking about "ethnic cleansing"--yet another canard of the anti-semites on the Left. We are talking about taking control of an area justly won in war, and insuring security. Palestinians largely came from Jordon and immigrated to Palestine in the 19th century. They can just as easily go back to Jordan, which was the original second state of the "two state solution."

 

[sealadaigh]

What Israel actually needs to do is implement the "real one state solution". Namely they need to lay claim over land they justly conquered in past wars and deport the population to countries where they belong, like Jordan. No other country would put up with the terrorist crap that Israel has had to put up with. Telling Uncle to stick it would go a long way here.

that really wasn't the question, rabbi.

do you really think ethnic cleansing, acts of genocide, and the violation of numerous internationaal laws and conventions is a good idea? i have run across a lot of jewish people and some gentiles who think that that is the way to go until you put it in those simple but accurate terms. i think the long term efects of such a "real one state" final solution would be disasterous for israel and cause a backlash against jewish people worldwide.

not very practical either. i think it would be easier to ethnically cleanse the area of the jewish population than the palestinian population, despite the great strides already put forth to accomplish the latter...and not to mention the positive long term effects would be more enduring.

but like i said, i think ethnic cleansing is not the way to achieve peace. the question was, i think...lol...was that palestinian officials have expressed a desire to sit down and negotiate and israeli officials have refused and i can see no reason why they should not sit down at the table, given their claim that peace is what they want.

Except we arent talking about "ethnic cleansing"--yet another canard of the anti-semites on the Left. We are talking about taking control of an area justly won in war, and insuring security. Palestinians largely came from Jordon and immigrated to Palestine in the 19th century. They can just as easily go back to Jordan, which was the original second state of the "two state solution."

i believe what you just described is ethnic cleansing. most of those displaced palestinians and the ones currentlu living there have been their for generations, and far longer than most of the jews.

i got a plan. let's let the newest comers leave, i mean if you want to go the helen thomas route.

but, and again, i see palesinian officials asking for peace negotiations and israel nixing it which sort of indicates to me who really wants peace and who benefits from continueing the conflict. why, rabbi? be aware, there will come a time when the arab peoples will gain the upper hand.

 

[The Rabbi]

that really wasn't the question, rabbi.

do you really think ethnic cleansing, acts of genocide, and the violation of numerous internationaal laws and conventions is a good idea? i have run across a lot of jewish people and some gentiles who think that that is the way to go until you put it in those simple but accurate terms. i think the long term efects of such a "real one state" final solution would be disasterous for israel and cause a backlash against jewish people worldwide.

not very practical either. i think it would be easier to ethnically cleanse the area of the jewish population than the palestinian population, despite the great strides already put forth to accomplish the latter...and not to mention the positive long term effects would be more enduring.

but like i said, i think ethnic cleansing is not the way to achieve peace. the question was, i think...lol...was that palestinian officials have expressed a desire to sit down and negotiate and israeli officials have refused and i can see no reason why they should not sit down at the table, given their claim that peace is what they want.

Except we arent talking about "ethnic cleansing"--yet another canard of the anti-semites on the Left. We are talking about taking control of an area justly won in war, and insuring security. Palestinians largely came from Jordon and immigrated to Palestine in the 19th century. They can just as easily go back to Jordan, which was the original second state of the "two state solution."

i believe what you just described is ethnic cleansing. most of those displaced palestinians and the ones currentlu living there have been their for generations, and far longer than most of the jews.

i got a plan. let's let the newest comers leave, i mean if you want to go the helen thomas route.

but, and again, i see palesinian officials asking for peace negotiations and israel nixing it which sort of indicates to me who really wants peace and who benefits from continueing the conflict. why, rabbi? be aware, there will come a time when the arab peoples will gain the upper hand.

BEcause Israel conquered those lands. Victors make the peace, not losers. And the Palis are the biggest losers on the planet. Even other Arabs can't stand them.
Helen Thomas was an anti-semite and Jew-hater of the classic mold. Invoking her name does nothing.

 

[sealadaigh]

What Israel actually needs to do is implement the "real one state solution". Namely they need to lay claim over land they justly conquered in past wars and deport the population to countries where they belong, like Jordan. No other country would put up with the terrorist crap that Israel has had to put up with. Telling Uncle to stick it would go a long way here.

that really wasn't the question, rabbi.

do you really think ethnic cleansing, acts of genocide, and the violation of numerous internationaal laws and conventions is a good idea? i have run across a lot of jewish people and some gentiles who think that that is the way to go until you put it in those simple but accurate terms. i think the long term efects of such a "real one state" final solution would be disasterous for israel and cause a backlash against jewish people worldwide.

not very practical either. i think it would be easier to ethnically cleanse the area of the jewish population than the palestinian population, despite the great strides already put forth to accomplish the latter...and not to mention the positive long term effects would be more enduring.

but like i said, i think ethnic cleansing is not the way to achieve peace. the question was, i think...lol...was that palestinian officials have expressed a desire to sit down and negotiate and israeli officials have refused and i can see no reason why they should not sit down at the table, given their claim that peace is what they want.

Except we arent talking about "ethnic cleansing"--yet another canard of the anti-semites on the Left. We are talking about taking control of an area justly won in war, and insuring security. Palestinians largely came from Jordon and immigrated to Palestine in the 19th century. They can just as easily go back to Jordan, which was the original second state of the "two state solution."

and again, rabbi, transporting an indigenous population off the land that they have been inhabiting for generations to another land is called ethnic cleansing, and when that relocation makes the aspirations of nationhood for that people impossible, that is called genocide, your opinions about the details notwithstanding.

you also may want to check UN resolution 181. the same resolution that allowed the israeli state to come into being does not make the palestinians jordanian. the west bank belongs, de juris, to the palestinian people.

furthermore, jordan has no obligation whatsoever to take in these palestinians. that is ridiculous. why? because they are arabs. that is so racist it isn't even worth addressing. the land was not justly won in war, either.

 

[sealadaigh]

Except we arent talking about "ethnic cleansing"--yet another canard of the anti-semites on the Left. We are talking about taking control of an area justly won in war, and insuring security. Palestinians largely came from Jordon and immigrated to Palestine in the 19th century. They can just as easily go back to Jordan, which was the original second state of the "two state solution."

i believe what you just described is ethnic cleansing. most of those displaced palestinians and the ones currentlu living there have been their for generations, and far longer than most of the jews.

i got a plan. let's let the newest comers leave, i mean if you want to go the helen thomas route.

but, and again, i see palesinian officials asking for peace negotiations and israel nixing it which sort of indicates to me who really wants peace and who benefits from continueing the conflict. why, rabbi? be aware, there will come a time when the arab peoples will gain the upper hand.

BEcause Israel conquered those lands. Victors make the peace, not losers. And the Palis are the biggest losers on the planet. Even other Arabs can't stand them.
Helen Thomas was an anti-semite and Jew-hater of the classic mold. Invoking her name does nothing.

the similarities between your arguments and those of helen thomas could not go unnoticed. it is almost as if you are calling yourself a racist. actually, the jews moving back to their or their ancestor"s native lands in europe, asia, and the americas makes more sense as they are the colonial force.

i think you are whistling past the grave yard if you think israel has conquered anything, not the least of whom are the palestinians. i think israel, who could has had the opportunity for a safe and secure homeland and a chance to make many allies in the arab world, is now less safe and secure than ever. do you really think iran and any arab states are allies? they are getting closer to that.

now we have abbas asking for negotiations and israel refuses.

but thank you for illustrating what type of problems the palestinians have to deal with and revealing israels reasons for not negotiating.

 

[The Rabbi]

i believe what you just described is ethnic cleansing. most of those displaced palestinians and the ones currentlu living there have been their for generations, and far longer than most of the jews.

i got a plan. let's let the newest comers leave, i mean if you want to go the helen thomas route.

but, and again, i see palesinian officials asking for peace negotiations and israel nixing it which sort of indicates to me who really wants peace and who benefits from continueing the conflict. why, rabbi? be aware, there will come a time when the arab peoples will gain the upper hand.

BEcause Israel conquered those lands. Victors make the peace, not losers. And the Palis are the biggest losers on the planet. Even other Arabs can't stand them.
Helen Thomas was an anti-semite and Jew-hater of the classic mold. Invoking her name does nothing.

the similarities between your arguments and those of helen thomas could not go unnoticed. it is almost as if you are calling yourself a racist. actually, the jews moving back to their or their ancestor"s native lands in europe, asia, and the americas makes more sense as they are the colonial force.

i think you are whistling past the grave yard if you think israel has conquered anything, not the least of whom are the palestinians. i think israel, who could has had the opportunity for a safe and secure homeland and a chance to make many allies in the arab world, is now less safe and secure than ever. do you really think iran and any arab states are allies? they are getting closer to that.

now we have abbas asking for negotiations and israel refuses.

but thank you for illustrating what type of problems the palestinians have to deal with and revealing israels reasons for not negotiating.

So Israel did not win the 67 war and the Yom Kippur war? News to everyone else.
Abbas doesnt speak for the Palestinians. Hamas speaks for the Palestinians. Enough of them anyway. And Hamas is pledged to destroy Israel. You don't negotiate the further existence of your country.

 

[sealadaigh]

BEcause Israel conquered those lands. Victors make the peace, not losers. And the Palis are the biggest losers on the planet. Even other Arabs can't stand them.
Helen Thomas was an anti-semite and Jew-hater of the classic mold. Invoking her name does nothing.

the similarities between your arguments and those of helen thomas could not go unnoticed. it is almost as if you are calling yourself a racist. actually, the jews moving back to their or their ancestor"s native lands in europe, asia, and the americas makes more sense as they are the colonial force.

i think you are whistling past the grave yard if you think israel has conquered anything, not the least of whom are the palestinians. i think israel, who could has had the opportunity for a safe and secure homeland and a chance to make many allies in the arab world, is now less safe and secure than ever. do you really think iran and any arab states are allies? they are getting closer to that.

now we have abbas asking for negotiations and israel refuses.

but thank you for illustrating what type of problems the palestinians have to deal with and revealing israels reasons for not negotiating.

So Israel did not win the 67 war and the Yom Kippur war? News to everyone else.
Abbas doesnt speak for the Palestinians. Hamas speaks for the Palestinians. Enough of them anyway. And Hamas is pledged to destroy Israel. You don't negotiate the further existence of your country.

what has israel won if they are further away from their stated goal of peace and a secure homeland now more than ever.

there is a third intifada ust around the corner. you can almost smell it.

abbas is the recognised representative of the palestinians at this juncture.

israel has pledged to destroy HAMAS. these pledges are resolved by negotiation.

israel will lose.

i think i have my answer as to why israel won't negotiate. thank you.

 

[The Rabbi]

the similarities between your arguments and those of helen thomas could not go unnoticed. it is almost as if you are calling yourself a racist. actually, the jews moving back to their or their ancestor"s native lands in europe, asia, and the americas makes more sense as they are the colonial force.

i think you are whistling past the grave yard if you think israel has conquered anything, not the least of whom are the palestinians. i think israel, who could has had the opportunity for a safe and secure homeland and a chance to make many allies in the arab world, is now less safe and secure than ever. do you really think iran and any arab states are allies? they are getting closer to that.

now we have abbas asking for negotiations and israel refuses.

but thank you for illustrating what type of problems the palestinians have to deal with and revealing israels reasons for not negotiating.

So Israel did not win the 67 war and the Yom Kippur war? News to everyone else.
Abbas doesnt speak for the Palestinians. Hamas speaks for the Palestinians. Enough of them anyway. And Hamas is pledged to destroy Israel. You don't negotiate the further existence of your country.

what has israel won if they are further away from their stated goal of peace and a secure homeland now more than ever.

there is a third intifada ust around the corner. you can almost smell it.

abbas is the recognised representative of the palestinians at this juncture.

israel has pledged to destroy HAMAS. these pledges are resolved by negotiation.

israel will lose.

i think i have my answer as to why israel won't negotiate. thank you.

Israel has won every war it ever waged against another country. They are closer because after the last one the Arabs were afraid to attack them. Arabs understand strength. The despise weakness.
Hamas won the only legitimate election in the PA. They arguably represent the Palis more than Abbas, who is merely a figurehead. Israel has pledged to destroy Hamas because it is a terrorist organization.
Israel will win. It will win because Palestinians are stupid ignorant people. Because Israel is well armed and well trained. And because G-d is on the side of the Jews.

 

[sealadaigh]

So Israel did not win the 67 war and the Yom Kippur war? News to everyone else.
Abbas doesnt speak for the Palestinians. Hamas speaks for the Palestinians. Enough of them anyway. And Hamas is pledged to destroy Israel. You don't negotiate the further existence of your country.

what has israel won if they are further away from their stated goal of peace and a secure homeland now more than ever.

there is a third intifada ust around the corner. you can almost smell it.

abbas is the recognised representative of the palestinians at this juncture.

israel has pledged to destroy HAMAS. these pledges are resolved by negotiation.

israel will lose.

i think i have my answer as to why israel won't negotiate. thank you.

Israel has won every war it ever waged against another country. They are closer because after the last one the Arabs were afraid to attack them. Arabs understand strength. The despise weakness.
Hamas won the only legitimate election in the PA. They arguably represent the Palis more than Abbas, who is merely a figurehead. Israel has pledged to destroy Hamas because it is a terrorist organization.
Israel will win. It will win because Palestinians are stupid ignorant people. Because Israel is well armed and well trained. And because G-d is on the side of the Jews.
.

as or israel winning all the wars and being well armed and well trained...two words...litani river. maybe that g-d of yours should have taken some lessons from his baby boy and learned how to walk on water. he might have gotten that brave IDF further north.

how about those rockets...oh wait...there are none. you won. YAYYYYYYY.

and the question remains.

pyrrhus at heraclea and asculum...(another such victory, over the palestinians, and you are undone. the world will never forgive you.)

 

[jillian]

My personal opinion, Israel doesnt want a Palestinian state. Both the notion of giving over land and having the palestinians form a nation that will, im sure, be aided by enemies of Israel, and the idea of allowing Palestinians who despise Israel to be considered equal citizens with equal voice and vote is untenable.

i'm sure egypt and jordan would be surprised to hear that israel doesn't exchange land for peace.

 

[Billo_Really]

...but it is the best interest of the palestinian officials to make peace...

It is not possible for a population under a belligerent occupation of a foreign force to make peace. For the simple fact that they do not control their own destiny and as long as their territory is "occupied", they have every legal right to resist. It is an unfair and unjust burden to impose this condition on a population under such conditions. The occupying power is in control of the events that can take place.

As soon as the occupation ends, then and only then, is it fair to expect the Palestinian's to share the burden for peace.

 

[Billo_Really]

What Israel actually needs to do is implement the "real one state solution". Namely they need to lay claim over land they justly conquered in past wars and deport the population to countries where they belong, like Jordan. No other country would put up with the terrorist crap that Israel has had to put up with. Telling Uncle to stick it would go a long way here.

Unfortunately, ever since WWII, it has been illegal to acquire territory by force. And it is also illegal to change the demographics of a population under occupation.

The Palestinian's shouldn't have to put up with being shot at when they are farming or fishing. That's terrorism too!

 

[Polk]

The corrupt PA and HAMAS "leadership" - like so many other oligarchies in Arab and Muslim lands! - benefit, by the BILLIONS in their Swiss bank accounts.

As do the corrupt "rulers" of so many Muslim-majority nations who point to Israel as the source and reason for whatever ails their lands.

that's your opinion and it isn't true. what muslim maority nations point to israel as the source of all their problems?,

but so what if it was true? israel's problem with palestine is seperate from the alleged problems you mention israel has with the muslim world. are you saying israel shouldn't negotiate with palestine because senegal has some sort of problem of another with israel.

abbas wants to negotiate.

Many leaders in the Middle East blame Israel for their domestic problems.

 

[Polk]

Why don't you look up that 'proposal' and link to it, so we can ALL see the details?

To date, not a single 'AL' proposal has even acknowledged the Jewish Arab refugees of '48 - some 950,000 people stripped of their citizenship as well as everything they owned simply because they were Jews in Arab nations (and Iran).

If the 'refugee' problem is to be solved, it needs to be solved for ALL the refugees - or it isn't solved at all.

Because it's not an actual issue in the peace process. The Palestinians weren't the ones who pushed Jews out of Iran, et al. Even if they were, I doubt (m)any Jews would want to return to Tehran.

 

[flacaltenn]

that really wasn't the question, rabbi.

do you really think ethnic cleansing, acts of genocide, and the violation of numerous internationaal laws and conventions is a good idea? i have run across a lot of jewish people and some gentiles who think that that is the way to go until you put it in those simple but accurate terms. i think the long term efects of such a "real one state" final solution would be disasterous for israel and cause a backlash against jewish people worldwide.

not very practical either. i think it would be easier to ethnically cleanse the area of the jewish population than the palestinian population, despite the great strides already put forth to accomplish the latter...and not to mention the positive long term effects would be more enduring.

but like i said, i think ethnic cleansing is not the way to achieve peace. the question was, i think...lol...was that palestinian officials have expressed a desire to sit down and negotiate and israeli officials have refused and i can see no reason why they should not sit down at the table, given their claim that peace is what they want.

Except we arent talking about "ethnic cleansing"--yet another canard of the anti-semites on the Left. We are talking about taking control of an area justly won in war, and insuring security. Palestinians largely came from Jordon and immigrated to Palestine in the 19th century. They can just as easily go back to Jordan, which was the original second state of the "two state solution."

and again, rabbi, transporting an indigenous population off the land that they have been inhabiting for generations to another land is called ethnic cleansing, and when that relocation makes the aspirations of nationhood for that people impossible, that is called genocide, your opinions about the details notwithstanding.

you also may want to check UN resolution 181. the same resolution that allowed the israeli state to come into being does not make the palestinians jordanian. the west bank belongs, de juris, to the palestinian people.

furthermore, jordan has no obligation whatsoever to take in these palestinians. that is ridiculous. why? because they are arabs. that is so racist it isn't even worth addressing. the land was not justly won in war, either.

Sorry kid == your revisionist history and racist baiting doesn't fly even with his majesty the King of Jordan.. From HIS website...

http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/his_periods9.html

Consequently, in December 1948, a group of Palestinian leaders and notables from the West Bank convened a historic conference in Jericho, where they called for King Abdullah to take immediate steps to unite the two banks of the Jordan into a single state under his leadership.

On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.

The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan now included nearly one and a half million people, more than half a million of whom were refugees evicted from Jewish-occupied Palestine. All automatically became citizens of Jordan, a right that had first been offered in December 1949 to all Palestinians who wished to claim it. Although the Arab League opposed this plan, and no other Arab government followed Jordan’s lead, the Hashemite Kingdom offered the possibility of normal life for many people who would have otherwise remained stateless refugees.
When the final UN cease-fire was imposed on June 11, Israel stood in possession of a wide swath of Arab land, including the Egyptian Sinai, Syria’s Golan Heights, and, most significantly, what remained of Arab Palestine—the West Bank, including Arab East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.

Of the states participating in the conflict, Jordan paid by far the heaviest price. As a result of the war, more than 300,000 Palestinian Arabs became refugees and fled to Jordan. For many of them, this was the second uprooting in less than two decades, having been driven from their original homes in 1948. Jordan’s economy was also devastated. About 70% of Jordan’s agricultural land was located in the West Bank, which produced 60 to 65% of its fruits and vegetables. Half of the Kingdom’s industrial establishments were located in the West Bank, while the loss of Jerusalem and other religious sites devastated the tourism industry. Altogether, areas now occupied by Israel had accounted for approximately 38% of Jordan’s gross national product.

The partnership with the Palestinians desired by King Hussein fell apart in September, 1970. The pervasive and chaotic presence of armed Palestinian fedayeen groups who expected immunity from Jordan’s laws was leading to a state of virtual anarchy throughout the Kingdom. Moderate Palestinian leaders were unable to reign in extremist elements, who ambushed the king’s motorcade twice and perpetrated a series of spectacular hijackings. Forced to respond decisively in order to preserve his country from anarchy, King Hussein ordered the army into action.The situation prompted different reactions throughout the Arab world. While most leaders privately expressed sympathy with the position of King Hussein, many took a public stance in favor of the fedayeen in order to embellish their credentials as “Arab nationalists.” The conflict reached a crisis point in September when some 200 Syrian tanks, camouflaged rather unconvincingly as Palestinian Liberation Army tanks, crossed into Jordan. The Syrians were bereft of air cover, however, and Jordanian aircraft forced a Syrian retreat within three days. In a brief yet intense campaign ending in July 1971, the Jordanian army put an end to the chaotic actions of these Palestinians guerrillas in Amman.

On July 28, 1988, King Hussein announced the cessation of a $1.3 billion development program for the West Bank, explaining that the measure was designed to allow the PLO more responsibility for the area. Two days later, he formally dissolved Parliament, ending West Bank representation in the legislature. Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.

When I asked you above why JORDAN didn't want it's West Bank back --- THIS is the answer.. THe PLO was driving Jordan to anarchy. So Abdullah KICKED THEIR BUTTS to the curb in 1988 and washed his hands of the whole affair. At GREAT COST to his kingdom BTW..

Israel is not the ONLY NATION that has had difficulties negotiating and making agreements with the radical Pali groups.. You just refuse to recognize the problems of dealing with militant orgs that want to reduce your civilization to anarchy..

Go argue with King Abdullah about racist statements of duties to "assimilate Arabs". Or who had title to the West Bank prior to the 1967 war... Let me know how it turns out...

 

[sealadaigh]

Except we arent talking about "ethnic cleansing"--yet another canard of the anti-semites on the Left. We are talking about taking control of an area justly won in war, and insuring security. Palestinians largely came from Jordon and immigrated to Palestine in the 19th century. They can just as easily go back to Jordan, which was the original second state of the "two state solution."

and again, rabbi, transporting an indigenous population off the land that they have been inhabiting for generations to another land is called ethnic cleansing, and when that relocation makes the aspirations of nationhood for that people impossible, that is called genocide, your opinions about the details notwithstanding.

you also may want to check UN resolution 181. the same resolution that allowed the israeli state to come into being does not make the palestinians jordanian. the west bank belongs, de juris, to the palestinian people.

furthermore, jordan has no obligation whatsoever to take in these palestinians. that is ridiculous. why? because they are arabs. that is so racist it isn't even worth addressing. the land was not justly won in war, either.

Sorry kid == your revisionist history and racist baiting doesn't fly even with his majesty the King of Jordan.. From HIS website...

Jordan - History - Disengagement from the West Bank

Consequently, in December 1948, a group of Palestinian leaders and notables from the West Bank convened a historic conference in Jericho, where they called for King Abdullah to take immediate steps to unite the two banks of the Jordan into a single state under his leadership.

On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.

The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan now included nearly one and a half million people, more than half a million of whom were refugees evicted from Jewish-occupied Palestine. All automatically became citizens of Jordan, a right that had first been offered in December 1949 to all Palestinians who wished to claim it. Although the Arab League opposed this plan, and no other Arab government followed Jordan’s lead, the Hashemite Kingdom offered the possibility of normal life for many people who would have otherwise remained stateless refugees.
When the final UN cease-fire was imposed on June 11, Israel stood in possession of a wide swath of Arab land, including the Egyptian Sinai, Syria’s Golan Heights, and, most significantly, what remained of Arab Palestine—the West Bank, including Arab East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.

Of the states participating in the conflict, Jordan paid by far the heaviest price. As a result of the war, more than 300,000 Palestinian Arabs became refugees and fled to Jordan. For many of them, this was the second uprooting in less than two decades, having been driven from their original homes in 1948. Jordan’s economy was also devastated. About 70% of Jordan’s agricultural land was located in the West Bank, which produced 60 to 65% of its fruits and vegetables. Half of the Kingdom’s industrial establishments were located in the West Bank, while the loss of Jerusalem and other religious sites devastated the tourism industry. Altogether, areas now occupied by Israel had accounted for approximately 38% of Jordan’s gross national product.

The partnership with the Palestinians desired by King Hussein fell apart in September, 1970. The pervasive and chaotic presence of armed Palestinian fedayeen groups who expected immunity from Jordan’s laws was leading to a state of virtual anarchy throughout the Kingdom. Moderate Palestinian leaders were unable to reign in extremist elements, who ambushed the king’s motorcade twice and perpetrated a series of spectacular hijackings. Forced to respond decisively in order to preserve his country from anarchy, King Hussein ordered the army into action.The situation prompted different reactions throughout the Arab world. While most leaders privately expressed sympathy with the position of King Hussein, many took a public stance in favor of the fedayeen in order to embellish their credentials as “Arab nationalists.” The conflict reached a crisis point in September when some 200 Syrian tanks, camouflaged rather unconvincingly as Palestinian Liberation Army tanks, crossed into Jordan. The Syrians were bereft of air cover, however, and Jordanian aircraft forced a Syrian retreat within three days. In a brief yet intense campaign ending in July 1971, the Jordanian army put an end to the chaotic actions of these Palestinians guerrillas in Amman.

On July 28, 1988, King Hussein announced the cessation of a $1.3 billion development program for the West Bank, explaining that the measure was designed to allow the PLO more responsibility for the area. Two days later, he formally dissolved Parliament, ending West Bank representation in the legislature. Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.

When I asked you above why JORDAN didn't want it's West Bank back --- THIS is the answer.. THe PLO was driving Jordan to anarchy. So Abdullah KICKED THEIR BUTTS to the curb in 1988 and washed his hands of the whole affair. At GREAT COST to his kingdom BTW..

Israel is not the ONLY NATION that has had difficulties negotiating and making agreements with the radical Pali groups.. You just refuse to recognize the problems of dealing with militant orgs that want to reduce your civilization to anarchy..

Go argue with King Abdullah about racist statements of duties to "assimilate Arabs". Or who had title to the West Bank prior to the 1967 war... Let me know how it turns out...

there is no revisionist history. the only states that gave de juris reccognition that the west bank was part of jordan were jordan and the UK...i suggest you go argue with the UN, and to include israel and the united states, with your own revisionist interpretation of history.

and you cannot acquire land by means of war...and the expulsion of people from their land because of war is also against international law, depite your, i assume, new found loyalty to king abdullah.

but i really, really do appreciate seeing zionists finally speak out in favour of genocide and ethnic cleansing. it really is refreshing for them to acknowledge what i have been saying for the past so many years about israeli desires for the west bank only to be met with "no, no, no. we don't want the west bank. all we want is safe and secure borders."

 

[flacaltenn]

I am kinda fond of King Abdullah.. And I WISH he had gotten better thanks from the Palis for his support. But the Palis proved to be too much for the King to handle.. And he was willing to cut loose 38% of GNP in order to get rid of them.. Did the KING perform "ethnic cleansing" when Jordan renounced claim to the West Bank?

If the Palis had been serious about creating a TRUE HOMELAND -- the PLO which the Jordanian King helped CREATE -- wouldn't have turned on the country giving them support and shelter.

Had that not happened -- ISRAEL could have gotten assurances from Jordan (and Egypt and Lebanon) in terms of ASSURING their security from a stable responsible govt(s) -- instead of from Hamas. And we would be both celebrating the creation of a STABLE Pali homeland instead of watching radicals in a constant state of agitation and confrontation with WHATEVER powers stand in their way of wiping out Israel...

The Arab neighbors don't WANT and don't RESPECT the Pali extremists too much either. That's why the peace process is going no where...

 

[sealadaigh]

I am kinda fond of King Abdullah.. And I WISH he had gotten better thanks from the Palis for his support. But the Palis proved to be too much for the King to handle.. And he was willing to cut loose 38% of GNP in order to get rid of them.. Did the KING perform "ethnic cleansing" when Jordan renounced claim to the West Bank?

If the Palis had been serious about creating a TRUE HOMELAND -- the PLO which the Jordanian King helped CREATE -- wouldn't have turned on the country giving them support and shelter.

Had that not happened -- ISRAEL could have gotten assurances from Jordan (and Egypt and Lebanon) in terms of ASSURING their security from a stable responsible govt(s) -- instead of from Hamas. And we would be both celebrating the creation of a STABLE Pali homeland instead of watching radicals in a constant state of agitation and confrontation with WHATEVER powers stand in their way of wiping out Israel...

The Arab neighbors don't WANT and don't RESPECT the Pali extremists too much either. That's why the peace process is going no where...

the arab peace initiative is still on the tablr.

HAMAS rose to political power after israel refused to negotiate with the PA.

none of the above matters or changes anything. abbas still says "yes", negotiate, and israel says "no".