Tesla Semi

[Slash]

We shall see.

At this point, they can't deliver their promised vehicles or any profit.

At some point, the tax incentives are going to go away, and unless they make $$$$$ , investors are going to bale.

They are delivering their vehicles. Making cars isn't rocket science. And by the way this guy makes the best rockets in the world. They'll get the cars figured out, just like they did when everyone said the Model S would never come out, then said the Model X would never come out, then said the home battery system would never come out.. It gets old hearing people throwing out the same claim over and over and over.

Think of when the Iphone or Playstation or a movie comes out how many people are standing in line on that first day to get them. And for every person in line, there's another 20 saying "I'll just wait until their next manufacturing push or my phone to really need to upgrade, or give it a few more weeks". There's 450,000 people in that line for the Model 3. The issue isn't the tech, its the suppliers and working out the kinks of mass production. That's not going to stop them.

And they've said from the start, growth is more important than profit at this point, instead of profit, lets build a factory to build a LOT more cars. And yes that tax incentive is going away. Just like Cash for Clunkers went away.

 

[Zander]

We shall see.

At this point, they can't deliver their promised vehicles or any profit.

At some point, the tax incentives are going to go away, and unless they make $$$$$ , investors are going to bale.

They are delivering their vehicles. Making cars isn't rocket science. And by the way this guy makes the best rockets in the world. They'll get the cars figured out, just like they did when everyone said the Model S would never come out, then said the Model X would never come out, then said the home battery system would never come out.. It gets old hearing people throwing out the same claim over and over and over.

Think of when the Iphone or Playstation or a movie comes out how many people are standing in line on that first day to get them. And for every person in line, there's another 20 saying "I'll just wait until their next manufacturing push or my phone to really need to upgrade, or give it a few more weeks". There's 450,000 people in that line for the Model 3. The issue isn't the tech, its the suppliers and working out the kinks of mass production. That's not going to stop them.

And they've said from the start, growth is more important than profit at this point, instead of profit, lets build a factory to build a LOT more cars. And yes that tax incentive is going away. Just like Cash for Clunkers went away.

Feel free to invest in them.

 

[DrLove]

It's no secret, Tesla has had how many Quarters in the black? One? Two? They lost 600 million last Quarter. The only way to keep that sinking ship afloat is to get more suckers to keep it above water. They aren't giving more cash for the products already on offer, so you have to come up with something "new".

Same old game, same old system, just the newest bunch of suckers.

Nay, the Model 3 starting at 35k is going to save them. Production issues - yep, but they are being solved.

Model 3

 

[Slash]

Feel free to invest in them.

Nah, I did in some other companies that worked out but didn't get into them at the start. Not saying they are perfect, but when people keep repeating the same old story and again and again they are proven wrong, it kinda gets old doesn't it? It's like saying now "Brady can never win another SB"... Yeah, at some point that may be true. But the last 5 times you said that you were wrong.

It's just kind of a lazy tactic now. That and the battery one is hilarious. Ok We've had these batteries in vehicles now for 20 years. We've been putting billions of miles on them. The "you need to replace them every couple years" BS is just tired at this point.

 

[DGS49]

Any commercial truck buyer will know exactly what his needs are before investing in an electric truck/tractor. If it is required to go more miles between major stops than the Tesla can provide, then maybe an electric is not for them, but...

I saw a whole fleet of Tesla taxis in Amsterdam. I never would have expected that, but they were providing great service under very demanding conditions.

Tesla is doing exciting things and apparently making great cars. I just wonder if the "Big Three" are just around the corner with even better electric cars, since they have lots more money to invest in development. But I read several car mags every month and I haven't seen anything to indicate that. Chevy Bolt is OK, but not better than the Tesla 3.

 

[Zander]

Feel free to invest in them.

Nah, I did in some other companies that worked out but didn't get into them at the start. Not saying they are perfect, but when people keep repeating the same old story and again and again they are proven wrong, it kinda gets old doesn't it? It's like saying now "Brady can never win another SB"... Yeah, at some point that may be true. But the last 5 times you said that you were wrong.

It's just kind of a lazy tactic now. That and the battery one is hilarious. Ok We've had these batteries in vehicles now for 20 years. We've been putting billions of miles on them. The "you need to replace them every couple years" BS is just tired at this point.

I love solar power (have it on my house) and electric/hybrid vehicles. I think hybrid technology is better because of the flexibility and longer range.

My issue with Tesla (besides their massive cash burn and lack of profits) are the taxpayer subsidies. Tesla (and Solar City) continue to report massive losses after more than a decade in business, but the stock value (of both companies) has soared on "potential". Musk and his investors enjoy the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost.

To me, Tesla is the face of crony capitalism.

 

[Slash]

Feel free to invest in them.

Nah, I did in some other companies that worked out but didn't get into them at the start. Not saying they are perfect, but when people keep repeating the same old story and again and again they are proven wrong, it kinda gets old doesn't it? It's like saying now "Brady can never win another SB"... Yeah, at some point that may be true. But the last 5 times you said that you were wrong.

It's just kind of a lazy tactic now. That and the battery one is hilarious. Ok We've had these batteries in vehicles now for 20 years. We've been putting billions of miles on them. The "you need to replace them every couple years" BS is just tired at this point.

I love solar power (have it on my house) and electric/hybrid vehicles. I think hybrid technology is better because of the flexibility and longer range.

My issue with Tesla (besides their massive cash burn and lack of profits) are the taxpayer subsidies. Tesla (and Solar City) continue to report massive losses after more than a decade in business, but the stock value (of both companies) has soared on "potential". Musk and his investors enjoy the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost.

To me, Tesla is the face of crony capitalism.

I agree on hybrid as that middle step right now until fully electric is fully capable. But looks like its hitting it's stride in the next few weeks.

As for the Subsidies, they are well under anything any other US auto maker ever got. So I mean if you want to go after those. Heck, Coal, big oil, GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc.. have at them. And Tesla is the only automaker not moving any of it's production outside of the US while getting that money.

Something like 3.4 billion in subsidies and tax breaks for Tesla in its entire life and in under 2 years GM got over 50 billion.

Again, if that's a massive loss, how is GM in just 3 months losing 6 times what Tesla lost in 8 years.

Feel free to invest in them.

Nah, I did in some other companies that worked out but didn't get into them at the start. Not saying they are perfect, but when people keep repeating the same old story and again and again they are proven wrong, it kinda gets old doesn't it? It's like saying now "Brady can never win another SB"... Yeah, at some point that may be true. But the last 5 times you said that you were wrong.

It's just kind of a lazy tactic now. That and the battery one is hilarious. Ok We've had these batteries in vehicles now for 20 years. We've been putting billions of miles on them. The "you need to replace them every couple years" BS is just tired at this point.

I love solar power (have it on my house) and electric/hybrid vehicles. I think hybrid technology is better because of the flexibility and longer range.

My issue with Tesla (besides their massive cash burn and lack of profits) are the taxpayer subsidies. Tesla (and Solar City) continue to report massive losses after more than a decade in business, but the stock value (of both companies) has soared on "potential". Musk and his investors enjoy the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost.

To me, Tesla is the face of crony capitalism.

I think the Hybrid will be a great in between tech that bridges gas to full electric and that's what it's done as electric tech has increased. I don't see it as a long term vehicle though. Kinda like the clamshell phone. Nice to bridge between the big handsets and the full screen ones.

I still don't see the massive losses. GM for example in 3 months lost over 5 times what Tesla has in it's entire existence. I mean since 1987, the Big 3 are net negative on profit. Some years up, but overall they've lost in that time span.

Also the bailout reason makes no sense. Over 2 years in the mid-2000's, GM got 55 billion in bailouts/tax breaks. Tesla is around 3.4 billion in total (most in a loan that was paid back early). And GM and Ford after another round of handouts (see 1950's, 1970's 1990's) move production outside of the US. GM says they can't pay back the US government what they should since it would "upset their stockholders" Chrysler takes it's 30 billion in bailout to regain solvency long enough to get production ramped up in Canada and sell itself to Italy. And there have always been tax breaks on vehicles in different ways. Cash for clunkers cost billions in taxpayer money alone.

I am not a fan of gov't handouts either but unless you have a political position Tesla is WAYYYYY down the list.

 

[Zander]

Feel free to invest in them.

Nah, I did in some other companies that worked out but didn't get into them at the start. Not saying they are perfect, but when people keep repeating the same old story and again and again they are proven wrong, it kinda gets old doesn't it? It's like saying now "Brady can never win another SB"... Yeah, at some point that may be true. But the last 5 times you said that you were wrong.

It's just kind of a lazy tactic now. That and the battery one is hilarious. Ok We've had these batteries in vehicles now for 20 years. We've been putting billions of miles on them. The "you need to replace them every couple years" BS is just tired at this point.

I love solar power (have it on my house) and electric/hybrid vehicles. I think hybrid technology is better because of the flexibility and longer range.

My issue with Tesla (besides their massive cash burn and lack of profits) are the taxpayer subsidies. Tesla (and Solar City) continue to report massive losses after more than a decade in business, but the stock value (of both companies) has soared on "potential". Musk and his investors enjoy the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost.

To me, Tesla is the face of crony capitalism.

I agree on hybrid as that middle step right now until fully electric is fully capable. But looks like its hitting it's stride in the next few weeks.

As for the Subsidies, they are well under anything any other US auto maker ever got. So I mean if you want to go after those. Heck, Coal, big oil, GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc.. have at them. And Tesla is the only automaker not moving any of it's production outside of the US while getting that money.

Something like 3.4 billion in subsidies and tax breaks for Tesla in its entire life and in under 2 years GM got over 50 billion.

Again, if that's a massive loss, how is GM in just 3 months losing 6 times what Tesla lost in 8 years.

Feel free to invest in them.

Nah, I did in some other companies that worked out but didn't get into them at the start. Not saying they are perfect, but when people keep repeating the same old story and again and again they are proven wrong, it kinda gets old doesn't it? It's like saying now "Brady can never win another SB"... Yeah, at some point that may be true. But the last 5 times you said that you were wrong.

It's just kind of a lazy tactic now. That and the battery one is hilarious. Ok We've had these batteries in vehicles now for 20 years. We've been putting billions of miles on them. The "you need to replace them every couple years" BS is just tired at this point.

I love solar power (have it on my house) and electric/hybrid vehicles. I think hybrid technology is better because of the flexibility and longer range.

My issue with Tesla (besides their massive cash burn and lack of profits) are the taxpayer subsidies. Tesla (and Solar City) continue to report massive losses after more than a decade in business, but the stock value (of both companies) has soared on "potential". Musk and his investors enjoy the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost.

To me, Tesla is the face of crony capitalism.

I think the Hybrid will be a great in between tech that bridges gas to full electric and that's what it's done as electric tech has increased. I don't see it as a long term vehicle though. Kinda like the clamshell phone. Nice to bridge between the big handsets and the full screen ones.

I still don't see the massive losses. GM for example in 3 months lost over 5 times what Tesla has in it's entire existence. I mean since 1987, the Big 3 are net negative on profit. Some years up, but overall they've lost in that time span.

Also the bailout reason makes no sense. Over 2 years in the mid-2000's, GM got 55 billion in bailouts/tax breaks. Tesla is around 3.4 billion in total (most in a loan that was paid back early). And GM and Ford after another round of handouts (see 1950's, 1970's 1990's) move production outside of the US. GM says they can't pay back the US government what they should since it would "upset their stockholders" Chrysler takes it's 30 billion in bailout to regain solvency long enough to get production ramped up in Canada and sell itself to Italy. And there have always been tax breaks on vehicles in different ways. Cash for clunkers cost billions in taxpayer money alone.

I am not a fan of gov't handouts either but unless you have a political position Tesla is WAYYYYY down the list.

Like I said, I have no problem with electric cars. I think they are the next wave. But I do have a problem with Bailouts and handouts.

IMHO, GM should not be in business, nor Chrysler. But the Federal Government bailed them out, ostensibly, for the "Union" jobs they were "saving".

Ford, by contrast, was not bailed out. They've been consistently profitable since 2009 and with the exception of a few bad years that any company can experience, they've been a profitable company since their inception. They produce 2.5 MILLION cars a year. Tesla has sold less than 250,000 in 10 years. (Ford also pays a nice 5% dividend)

I want government out of the business of picking winners and losers. Is that unreasonable?

 

[Old Rocks]

Any commercial truck buyer will know exactly what his needs are before investing in an electric truck/tractor. If it is required to go more miles between major stops than the Tesla can provide, then maybe an electric is not for them, but...

I saw a whole fleet of Tesla taxis in Amsterdam. I never would have expected that, but they were providing great service under very demanding conditions.

Tesla is doing exciting things and apparently making great cars. I just wonder if the "Big Three" are just around the corner with even better electric cars, since they have lots more money to invest in development. But I read several car mags every month and I haven't seen anything to indicate that. Chevy Bolt is OK, but not better than the Tesla 3.

I think that the companies you need to watch for advanced EV's that compete with Tesla will come from China.

 

[Old Rocks]

Feel free to invest in them.

Nah, I did in some other companies that worked out but didn't get into them at the start. Not saying they are perfect, but when people keep repeating the same old story and again and again they are proven wrong, it kinda gets old doesn't it? It's like saying now "Brady can never win another SB"... Yeah, at some point that may be true. But the last 5 times you said that you were wrong.

It's just kind of a lazy tactic now. That and the battery one is hilarious. Ok We've had these batteries in vehicles now for 20 years. We've been putting billions of miles on them. The "you need to replace them every couple years" BS is just tired at this point.

I love solar power (have it on my house) and electric/hybrid vehicles. I think hybrid technology is better because of the flexibility and longer range.

My issue with Tesla (besides their massive cash burn and lack of profits) are the taxpayer subsidies. Tesla (and Solar City) continue to report massive losses after more than a decade in business, but the stock value (of both companies) has soared on "potential". Musk and his investors enjoy the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost.

To me, Tesla is the face of crony capitalism.

I agree on hybrid as that middle step right now until fully electric is fully capable. But looks like its hitting it's stride in the next few weeks.

As for the Subsidies, they are well under anything any other US auto maker ever got. So I mean if you want to go after those. Heck, Coal, big oil, GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc.. have at them. And Tesla is the only automaker not moving any of it's production outside of the US while getting that money.

Something like 3.4 billion in subsidies and tax breaks for Tesla in its entire life and in under 2 years GM got over 50 billion.

Again, if that's a massive loss, how is GM in just 3 months losing 6 times what Tesla lost in 8 years.

Feel free to invest in them.

Nah, I did in some other companies that worked out but didn't get into them at the start. Not saying they are perfect, but when people keep repeating the same old story and again and again they are proven wrong, it kinda gets old doesn't it? It's like saying now "Brady can never win another SB"... Yeah, at some point that may be true. But the last 5 times you said that you were wrong.

It's just kind of a lazy tactic now. That and the battery one is hilarious. Ok We've had these batteries in vehicles now for 20 years. We've been putting billions of miles on them. The "you need to replace them every couple years" BS is just tired at this point.

I love solar power (have it on my house) and electric/hybrid vehicles. I think hybrid technology is better because of the flexibility and longer range.

My issue with Tesla (besides their massive cash burn and lack of profits) are the taxpayer subsidies. Tesla (and Solar City) continue to report massive losses after more than a decade in business, but the stock value (of both companies) has soared on "potential". Musk and his investors enjoy the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost.

To me, Tesla is the face of crony capitalism.

I think the Hybrid will be a great in between tech that bridges gas to full electric and that's what it's done as electric tech has increased. I don't see it as a long term vehicle though. Kinda like the clamshell phone. Nice to bridge between the big handsets and the full screen ones.

I still don't see the massive losses. GM for example in 3 months lost over 5 times what Tesla has in it's entire existence. I mean since 1987, the Big 3 are net negative on profit. Some years up, but overall they've lost in that time span.

Also the bailout reason makes no sense. Over 2 years in the mid-2000's, GM got 55 billion in bailouts/tax breaks. Tesla is around 3.4 billion in total (most in a loan that was paid back early). And GM and Ford after another round of handouts (see 1950's, 1970's 1990's) move production outside of the US. GM says they can't pay back the US government what they should since it would "upset their stockholders" Chrysler takes it's 30 billion in bailout to regain solvency long enough to get production ramped up in Canada and sell itself to Italy. And there have always been tax breaks on vehicles in different ways. Cash for clunkers cost billions in taxpayer money alone.

I am not a fan of gov't handouts either but unless you have a political position Tesla is WAYYYYY down the list.

Like I said, I have no problem with electric cars. I think they are the next wave. But I do have a problem with Bailouts and handouts.

IMHO, GM should not be in business, nor Chrysler. But the Federal Government bailed them out, ostensibly, for the "Union" jobs they were "saving".

Ford, by contrast, was not bailed out. They've been consistently profitable since 2009 and with the exception of a few bad years that any company can experience, they've been a profitable company since their inception. They produce 2.5 MILLION cars a year. Tesla has sold less than 250,000 in 10 years. (Ford also pays a nice 5% dividend)

I want government out of the business of picking winners and losers. Is that unreasonable?

Yes,it is. Had not the government got into the business of picking winners and losers, the Transcontinental railroad would not have happened when it did. It would have been another 20 years later, at least.

 

[Shrimpbox]

I am not a scientist, and I don’t know anything about lithium batteries, but the amount of energy and heat generated by charging semi truck batteries in a half hour would severely degrade regular batteries. It is not because I don’t want it to be true, but I am going to have to see it to believe it that truck batteries can be charged at this rate 300 times a year for five years and still give optimum performance.

And all of,this has to be true for trucking companies to come on board. The bottom line is the ONLY thing this crowd is concerned about.

 

[Shrimpbox]

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This graph displays the number of full-time employees working at Tesla Motors between July 2010 and December 2016. The number of people employed by Tesla came to 2,964 in 2012. This figure is considerably lower than that of other vehicle manufacturers: General Motors employed around 213,000 people in 2012. The California-headquartered automaker manufactures and sells electric cars and electric vehicle powertrain components.

I agree with much of what you say slash, investing for the long term, etc. but when you acknowledge the fed ex or the Tupperware you fail to also acknowledge the 1000s of companies that failed and never made it . In so doing you seem to insinuate that there is no way for tesla to fail. That it’s success is a foregone conclusion, or put another way, the devil is really not in the details. We will see. The latest articles I have read say teslas borrowing ability has about run its course and the only thing left is to issue more stock diluting the value. So maybe gm or Mercedes steps in and buys the company, I don’t know how it will end.

Let’s just take your subsidy argument. I posted the employee numbers to try to get some scale. Of course none of gms numbers take into account suppliers, parts houses, service mechanics, dealerships, etc. let’s just say it is a huge ecosystem. Tesla, not at all. So 50billion went to gm and 3.4 went to tesla. For the sake of argument let’s just say tesla has 1% of the employees gm does. So to be comparable, 340 billion would of had to go to gm to have a similar employee to subsidy ratio. Not really comparable.

This is interesting.........

It looks like the state of California is bailing out Tesla

 

[Viacheslav]

1.9 seconds 0-60 4.2 seconds 0-100 top end 250+ mph range 620 miles

Something to relax in after a day of driving that semi.

As for me, this is not good news. I think that the future of Tesla depends only on of the successful launch of the mass production of Tesla 3. Tesla spends hundreds of millions of dollars every month, and only mass sale of Tesla 3 will save Tesla. This roadster or S-model has a very narrow market, and i afraid that Roadster or Semi is just an attempt to divert attention from problems with the mass production of Tesla 3.

 

[Old Rocks]

That roadster will serve the same function for Tesla as the GT40 did for Ford. It establishes an image for the brand name. You dream of owning a Roadster, but you buy the Tesla 3. It is a form of advertising.

 

[westwall]

That roadster will serve the same function for Tesla as the GT40 did for Ford. It establishes an image for the brand name. You dream of owning a Roadster, but you buy the Tesla 3. It is a form of advertising.

Wrong on all counts. The GT40 was a product of revenge. Henry Ford II wanted to buy Ferrari and when Enzo backed out at the last second, Ford was pissed so told his point man (Don Frey) to "go win Le Mans" because that was Ferrari's main claim to fame. Ford wanted to beat Ferrari at their own game.

 

[Old Rocks]

And Tesla wants to beat all the high end sports car producers at their own game by producing a vehicle that exceeds their vehicles at 1/2 to 1/10 the price. And he will probably do just that. And force those manufacturers to go to an EV vehicle to compete. Same as he is forcing all the large automobile manufacturers to bring out EV's with his S,3,X line. And he is going to be in position to supply batteries for these other manufacturers. So, he will either go broke, or end up very rich.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Tesla is taking orders for their electric semi truck now. They've shown a prototype.

This is Tesla’s big new all-electric truck – the Tesla Semi

300 mile or 500 mile range with a full load, 3 times the acceleration of a diesel truck, and independent computer-controlled motors on each of 4 wheels that make jackknifing nearly impossible.

Good move by Tesla. The mass market is where they should be concentrating. 80% of the semi fleet travels less than 250 miles a day, so that 80% is the market. Such vehicles can work during the day, then go the charging station at night, when the grid has the extra capacity.

Tesla hasn't stated the price. More expensive than a diesel truck, but Tesla says fuel and maintenance savings will make up the difference in cost in 2 years.

So you want semis to have better acceleration?
I prefer em being slow since those things are a MFer to stop.
And new big rigs already have traction control.
Hell,my old 2007 FJ had it.

 

[Viacheslav]

That roadster will serve the same function for Tesla as the GT40 did for Ford. It establishes an image for the brand name. You dream of owning a Roadster, but you buy the Tesla 3. It is a form of advertising.

This will make sense if Tesla launches mass production of Tesla 3 (100 - 200 thousand cars per month), and not later than 2019. Ford produces millions of cars a year.

 

[westwall]

And Tesla wants to beat all the high end sports car producers at their own game by producing a vehicle that exceeds their vehicles at 1/2 to 1/10 the price. And he will probably do just that. And force those manufacturers to go to an EV vehicle to compete. Same as he is forcing all the large automobile manufacturers to bring out EV's with his S,3,X line. And he is going to be in position to supply batteries for these other manufacturers. So, he will either go broke, or end up very rich.

Good luck with that. He is completely outclassed. Hell his Roadster was a Lotus Elise that he ripped the powertrain out of. He had never actually built a car until the S.

 

[Viacheslav]

And Tesla wants to beat all the high end sports car producers at their own game by producing a vehicle that exceeds their vehicles at 1/2 to 1/10 the price.

And for what? The market of sports cars is very limited, and for me Tesla should do everything possible for Tesla 3 as soon as possible, and to spend resources on Semi and roadster is not a reasonable way (in my opinion, of course)