Ted Cruz wants to increase H-1B visas from 65,000 to 325,000 annually

[The Rabbi]

...The job market isn't finite...

I believe this is incorrect on both a literal and metaphorical level, but I won't belabor the point further.

...but it doesn't grow at an infinite rate...

Indeed. Oftentimes, it shrinks. Just ask Pittsburgh or Detroit or Gary or South Bend or any other rust-belt town that is (or was) heavily dependent upon manufacturing jobs.

...Here's the bottom line: the more people you have competing for the same job, the lower the wage for that job. To refute that point you have to reject the basic principles of economics.

Agreed.

3 American workers, competing for a Roofing Laborer job, and the winning Laborer has a living wage.

3 American workers and 10 Illegal Aliens, competing for a Roofing Laborer job, and the winning Laborer has enough to buy gasoline, fat-and-gristle sandwiches, and cat food, to store in the cardboard box, under the bridge where he lives.

You clearly dont know much about roofing.

He obviously knows more than you. My brother used to have a construction business. However he had to fold because companies staffed with cheap Mexican labor were always underbidding him.

Oh yeah? My wife's third cousin had a job as CEO of the local power company and he got replaced by a Mexican tomato picker. True story!

 

[The Rabbi]

Ted Cruz never had my vote..................
Found out his wife worked for Goldman Sacked............ditched him already....
Increasing foreign labor when we already have so many out of work..........Exclamation mark.

People who make important decisions based on superficial factoids like you are exactly why the Founders favored property and other qualifications for voting.

 

[The Rabbi]

...Yes those thngs are unlimited. Why? What do you think the limits are? There was a limit to the number of horses you could have in Manhattan on a purely theoretic basis in the 19th century. We were running out of horse space. IT was going to be a crisis, not enough horses for transportation etc. And guess what happened. Human ingenuity invented cars. We were running out of sperm whale oil for lights in the 19th century. And a wonderful thing happened: we got electric lights. Human ingenuity. If the supply of jobs is limited please post what that limit is.

In a given town...

1. there are a finite number of roofs that require re-shingling this warm season

2. there are a finite number of companies providing such services for that town

3. there are a finite number of roofing contracts that each vendor can bid for and win

4. there are finite number of payroll jobs that each of those vendors (contractors) can offer

And, if you're a roofing laborer, once the jobs dry-up (a sure-fire indicator of their finite-ness), you're out of luck (and work).

And, if you're competing with not only your fellow Americans but dozens of Illegal Aliens whom the contractors can (and do) hire for a song, you're double shit-out-of-luck.

And, of course, there a thousand-and-one additional Real-World examples to demonstrate the finite nature of the job market - in simple terms of supply and demand.

Enough said.

There are not a finite number of roofs in any town. If that were the case every major city would have one roofer.

 

[The Rabbi]

...The job market isn't finite...

I believe this is incorrect on both a literal and metaphorical level, but I won't belabor the point further.

...but it doesn't grow at an infinite rate...

Indeed. Oftentimes, it shrinks. Just ask Pittsburgh or Detroit or Gary or South Bend or any other rust-belt town that is (or was) heavily dependent upon manufacturing jobs.

...Here's the bottom line: the more people you have competing for the same job, the lower the wage for that job. To refute that point you have to reject the basic principles of economics.

Agreed.

3 American workers, competing for a Roofing Laborer job, and the winning Laborer has a living wage.

3 American workers and 10 Illegal Aliens, competing for a Roofing Laborer job, and the winning Laborer has enough to buy gasoline, fat-and-gristle sandwiches, and cat food, to store in the cardboard box, under the bridge where he lives.

You clearly dont know much about roofing.

He obviously knows more than you. My brother used to have a construction business. However he had to fold because companies staffed with cheap Mexican labor were always underbidding him.

Now... now... we all know that I'm totally outgunned in his presence...

First smart thing you've posted here.
I ask you to defend your statements over and over and you deflect to the next thing or repeat crap I've already called you on.
You guys are not any better than the brain dead libs on here like Rightwinger.

 

[eagle1462010]

Ted Cruz never had my vote..................
Found out his wife worked for Goldman Sacked............ditched him already....
Increasing foreign labor when we already have so many out of work..........Exclamation mark.

People who make important decisions based on superficial factoids like you are exactly why the Founders favored property and other qualifications for voting.

Whatever.................I'm not voting for him.................
If you can't see the Goldman Sacked logo when you see these politicians smile you aren't looking............

That's your problem and not mine.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[Kondor3]

...There are not a finite number of roofs in any town. If that were the case every major city would have one roofer.

 

[The Rabbi]

...There are not a finite number of roofs in any town. If that were the case every major city would have one roofer.

And you still cant refute it.
You arent the biggest fool on this board only becauyse the bar is so high. You've been thoroughly pwned here.

 

[Kondor3]

...There are not a finite number of roofs in any town. If that were the case every major city would have one roofer.

And you still cant refute it.
You arent the biggest fool on this board only becauyse the bar is so high. You've been thoroughly pwned here.

I suggest you seek psychiatric help.

Several years online here, and you are my first 'Ignore'.

That really took some doing.

Buh-bye... buy bonds.

 

[SwimExpert]

Ted Cruz rails against crony capitalism and praises wife s Goldman Sachs career - Nick Gass - POLITICO

Ted Cruz is sounding off against Wall Street and financial institutions, including Goldman Sachs, where his wife, Heidi, works as a managing director in Houston.

Asked whether Goldman Sachs is a positive or negative force in society, the Texas senator and recently declared Republican presidential candidate told Bloomberg Politics on Tuesday that there’s a little bit of both.

Story Continued Below


“Goldman is one of the biggest banks on Wall Street, and my criticism with Washington is they engage in crony capitalism,” he said. “They give favors to Wall Street and Big Business, and that’s why I’ve been an outspoken opponent of crony capitalism, taking on leaders in both parties.”

“I am unabashedly proud of everything about Heidi,” Cruz said in response to a point that he did not mention his wife’s connection to Goldman Sachs during his announcement speech, noting that he did “mention the fact that she had an incredibly successful business career.”


Another used car salesman.

In related news, Goldman Sachs fired Heidi Cruz, stating that her husband is an unequivocally negative force in society.

 

[The Rabbi]

...There are not a finite number of roofs in any town. If that were the case every major city would have one roofer.

And you still cant refute it.
You arent the biggest fool on this board only becauyse the bar is so high. You've been thoroughly pwned here.

I suggest you seek psychiatric help.

Several years online here, and you are my first 'Ignore'.

That really took some doing.

Buh-bye... buy bonds.

Sore loser. Bye, asshole.

 

[JimBowie1958]

...Yes those thngs are unlimited. Why? What do you think the limits are? There was a limit to the number of horses you could have in Manhattan on a purely theoretic basis in the 19th century. We were running out of horse space. IT was going to be a crisis, not enough horses for transportation etc. And guess what happened. Human ingenuity invented cars. We were running out of sperm whale oil for lights in the 19th century. And a wonderful thing happened: we got electric lights. Human ingenuity. If the supply of jobs is limited please post what that limit is.

In a given town...

1. there are a finite number of roofs that require re-shingling this warm season

2. there are a finite number of companies providing such services for that town

3. there are a finite number of roofing contracts that each vendor can bid for and win

4. there are finite number of payroll jobs that each of those vendors (contractors) can offer

And, if you're a roofing laborer, once the jobs dry-up (a sure-fire indicator of their finite-ness), you're out of luck (and work).

And, if you're competing with not only your fellow Americans but dozens of Illegal Aliens whom the contractors can (and do) hire for a song, you're double shit-out-of-luck.

And, of course, there a thousand-and-one additional Real-World examples to demonstrate the finite nature of the job market - in simple terms of supply and demand.

Enough said.

There are not a finite number of roofs in any town. If that were the case every major city would have one roofer.

Yes there are no limits to the number of roofs that can be built in a town as there is no real practical limit. Roofs can be torn down and rebuilt in the same spot endlessly.

But that is not the same as INFINITE roofs. Though endless the total number of roofs at any point in the progression is still finite.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Immigration both legal and illegal needs to be stopped. All that abused our system should be deported.

 

[Unkotare]

Immigration both legal and illegal needs to be stopped. ....

LEGAL immigration is not going to stop, idiot. Feel free to remove your worthless ass.

 

[Kondor3]

...But that is not the same as INFINITE roofs. Though endless the total number of roofs at any point in the progression is still finite.

Agreed.

There are just as many house-roofs as there are houses in town.

That is the domain (sampling universe) limit.

There are just as many house-roofs to re-shingle as there are roofs in need of that service - a finite subset of that larger finite set.

That is the practical limit.

Therefore...

There are a limited number of roofing companies that such a market can support.

There are a limited number of contracts that each roofing company (contractor) will be able to obtain.

There are a limited number of Roofing Laborers that each contractor can hire, in order to fulfill his share of re-shingling orders.

That is the job limit.

Not exactly rocket science, is it?

=======================================================================

And, recapping an earlier post on the subject...

1. Three (3) Americans competing for one of those Roofing Laborer jobs will yield one worker with a Living Wage.

2. Three (3) Americans and ten (10) Illegal Aliens competing for that same Laborer job will yield one worker with a Far Lower ( < subsistence level? ) Wage.

And that worker will, quite probably, not be an American citizen.

That's called a Buyer's Market - with the contractor being the one buying the labor, from an over-saturated labor pool. Simple grade-school -caliber supply-and-demand.

=======================================================================

"Your Honor... the Defense rests."

 

[Kondor3]

Immigration both legal and illegal needs to be stopped. All that abused our system should be deported.

Agree, about the Illegal kind.

Disagree, about the Legal kind.

We can (and probably should) continue to accept a limited number of New Arrivals from around the world.

That will make the touchy-feely types feel better, even though we really don't need 'em like we did a century ago, and, if kept to reasonable levels, it does not harm, and maybe even some good, here and there.

For example, bringing-in a handful of higher-end tech-talent from time to time, can plug a temporary gap in some critical industry or another.

Where I, for one, fall afoul of the business-centric types, is whether we should do this H1B thing on a large scale, and in the long term, versus investing enough in our own people, to grow our own larger and primary pool of talent.

Rightly or wrongly, it's my belief that we - collectively - will never get off our asses, and make those larger and better-targeted investments in our own native talent, unless we force the issue. Business - given free rein to continue to import tons and tons of foreign talent - will take the easier and cheaper route every time, and this never gets better for our own.

Personally, I would be in favor of forcing the issue... squeezing-in just enough H1B talent from overseas to keep things from falling apart while we spend a few years growing that new talent pool, and then pretty much turning off the H1B faucet, and obliging business to recruit from amongst our own, and to operate on our own shores rather than overseas.

Would that constitute government interference in business operations?

Yep.

The US is not a Third World shit-hole.

Our people cannot compete with Third World shit-hole wages.

And they should not be forced to do so, through the practices of businesses who exploit that cheaper overseas labor pool.

Business continues its feeding frenzy in those unfortunate off-shore regions, and that has to stop, eventually, with respect to tech-talent, and the general labor pool.

Why should we act, to stop this?

Giving business free rein to import new and much larger numbers of tech-workers from overseas does nothing to improve conditions for American workers, and, ultimately, the welfare of Americans is what we must concern ourselves with.

Every so often, intervention is appropriate, when the goals and operations of business fall too far out of alignment with the welfare of the Republic and its People.

Teddy Roosevelt (R) (NY) would have loved to take a crack at that (H1B, and growing our own) challenge.

It's a shame that Cruz (and others) favor opening the H1B faucet wide-open at the expense of our own.

When push comes to shove, I stand with The People of the United States, not Big Business..

 

[Toro]

Posters talking about a limited number of roofs miss the point. The BLS codes job classifications to track employment trends. A quarter of those classifications didn't exist 50 years ago. The economy changes as it moves towards more value- added activities. That is the only way that wealth can be created. If technological advancement stops, so will economic growth.

Similarly for those who talk about limited resources, ie oil. 300 years ago, oil was worthless. The only reason why oil became valuable is because human ingenuity figured a way how to convert it to energy. I imagine oil will once again be worthless 300 years from now as we discover new sources of energy.

ALL wealth and ALL economic growth over time is solely a function of figuring out how to produce and distribute goods and services at a decreasing cost, allowing for wider consumption of those goods.

But to do that, jobs that were necessary in the past will disappear in the future. And jobs in the future will include those that no one knows about today.

 

[Kondor3]

...But to do that, jobs that were necessary in the past will disappear in the future. And jobs in the future will include those that no one knows about today.

Very nice, I'm sure, but that does nothing to feed and clothe and house families today. A balance is needed between macro economics and the needs of the day, and, when the needs of the day (more immediate needs and concerns) and the long-term welfare of The People are ignored, political conflict is sure to follow. Attention to both is indicated.

 

[Mr Natural]

Nothing gladdens a Conservatards heart more than cheap labor.

 

[RKMBrown]

Nothing gladdens a Conservatards heart more than cheap labor.

Hey moron... you do know that many of your libtard leaders use cheap labor right?