"Teacher Shortage" is a misnomer. The shortage is in the pay and benefits that districts offer to teachers

I "stress" about my property tax bill, as we all should.....That's just it, half the crotch fruit I'm paying out the ass for don't even have a parent that pays property tax.....Then we get fucked again due to all the breaks they get.
Airplanes should only be flown by people who want to go somewhere, not by trained and experienced pilots.

And no one should pay taxes that fund fire departments unless their house is on fire.
 
(1) Every school system has its own compensation arrangement. In some districts, the teachers' unions have the Administration (taxpayers) by the balls, and are very well compensated. This is the case where I live and there is no shortage...lots of applications for every opening. Hence, the expression, "underpaid teachers" does not apply.

(2) As a general proposition, the states where teacher compensation is set by the state legislature have sub-standard compensation. It's not reasonable to have teachers begging the legislatures for raises.

(3) Teaching is a form of public service. No amount of money could compensate a police officer adequately for patrolling a neighborhood where there is a target on his back. Same for compensating firefighters for crashing into burning buildings to make sure nobody is trapped inside. Same for teachers taking the bullshit they get from students, parents, and the Administration. But in all cases, these are part and parcel of the job. If you can't accept that, find something else to do.

(4) Is there anyone who says to herself, "At $35k to start I don't want to be a teacher, but I'll do it for $45k." I don't think so. But once the decision is made to be a teacher, they can't be faulted for finding the situation that offers the best compensation and/or working conditions.

(5) Teachers are government workers, and as such they are very reluctant to quit in order to find a real job. I suspect that most of the loss of teachers is through retirements that are difficult to replace.

(6) I think that the unconstitutional U.S. Department of Education could compile and publish data on teacher compensation nationwide, along with suggested guidelines for pay and benefits.
 
They had the option, though. They could also segregate the non-English speakers.

You seem to be deliberately avoiding the point of the thread. There are teachers who are looking for other professions, for one reason: The compensation no longer is worth the demands of the job.

Is your solution to tell them that their reward is to serve the local school board, the way nuns and brothers serve the Catholic Church?

There is no doubt that, currently, private schools get far better results on average than public schools. That's why we need vouchers. Until we have them, your option is to increase teacher compensation, or accept that there will be far fewer teachers teaching public school students.

Actually private schools do no better than public schools. You bought the propaganda!

Vouchers do NOT work and there is tons of evidence to prove it.
 
Actually private schools do no better than public schools. You bought the propaganda!
You may be right about that.
Vouchers do NOT work and there is tons of evidence to prove it.
Yeah, I think this is a re-run of an argument we had months ago. I asked you to show me where vouchers had been seriously tried, you told me to google "voucher program," I said no you tell me YOUR best example of a serious attempt at vouchers that failed, and then you stormed off.
 
You may be right about that.

Yeah, I think this is a re-run of an argument we had months ago. I asked you to show me where vouchers had been seriously tried, you told me to google "voucher program," I said no you tell me YOUR best example of a serious attempt at vouchers that failed, and then you stormed off.
I could not possibly list all of the abject failures in the voucher system. You were and still are on your own!
 
It's simple economics. I almost posted this in that section.

If workers are NOT willing to work for you, it's because you don't offer enough compensation.

In the last two school years, the demands of teaching have gone through the roof, starting with the Fall of 2020, during which teachers were typically required to teach virtually with zero lowering of expectations for the quality of their teaching. Then we had a combination of live and virtual teaching, with the same teachers doing both simultaneously and families given the choice of sending their kids in or having them "learn online."

Teachers were not given the work-from-home option, and we were required to wear masks at all times, and enforce mask wear for students. District set policy and we followed it or we quit. It didn't matter if we thought that COVID precautions were being over-done, or not done enough. One of the teachers at my school, in her late thirties, with a pre-existing condition, died of COVID after weeks of being face down on a respirator. She literally died to teach the kids.

Now the state has changed its standardized test in ways that will be even more stressful for teachers. More about that on another thread.

All this was part of the job. I'm not complaining, I'm just saying how it was and continues to be. I'm saying that if you hire a guy to build a pool for you, and then decide that you absolutely need a high dive and a hot tub also, you don't get to pay the same and say "don't complain, that's part of your job." You want more, you pay more.

If not, don't be surprised if fewer people want to work for you.

100% this.

Free market economics.
 
Teachers are the most entitled bunch of snowflakes in the fuckin' country.....It's always me, me, me, and more, more, more. Hey assholes you are the reason my property taxes have gone to the moon....You are never satisfied.

I swear if those assholes were handed a one ounce gold coin every morning I bet after a week and they will be demanding two ounces.

You could not do my job for five days running. Not five days running, I guarantee you that.

At the end of one teaching day, I have taught 150 elementary children, in every grade Kind-5th. Six classes, 45 minutes long.

That's day one. Tomorrow, you get up and do it all again. You get no aid or helper. Once your 25 kindergartners leave the room, here come 25 4th graders.

Six times a day on Monday. Tues, Wed. Thurs. Etc.
 
This is, quite simply , a load of shit when it comes to teaching.


When I was in school, the nuns and brothers that taught us received next to nothing in compensation, yet did a better job than the highly paid Government school teachers.

Teaching is really a vocation, not a job that people pursue to make a bundle at.

Nuns and monks.

Okay
 
(1) Every school system has its own compensation arrangement. In some districts, the teachers' unions have the Administration (taxpayers) by the balls, and are very well compensated. This is the case where I live and there is no shortage...lots of applications for every opening. Hence, the expression, "underpaid teachers" does not apply.

(2) As a general proposition, the states where teacher compensation is set by the state legislature have sub-standard compensation. It's not reasonable to have teachers begging the legislatures for raises.

(3) Teaching is a form of public service. No amount of money could compensate a police officer adequately for patrolling a neighborhood where there is a target on his back. Same for compensating firefighters for crashing into burning buildings to make sure nobody is trapped inside. Same for teachers taking the bullshit they get from students, parents, and the Administration. But in all cases, these are part and parcel of the job. If you can't accept that, find something else to do.

(4) Is there anyone who says to herself, "At $35k to start I don't want to be a teacher, but I'll do it for $45k." I don't think so. But once the decision is made to be a teacher, they can't be faulted for finding the situation that offers the best compensation and/or working conditions.

(5) Teachers are government workers, and as such they are very reluctant to quit in order to find a real job. I suspect that most of the loss of teachers is through retirements that are difficult to replace.

(6) I think that the unconstitutional U.S. Department of Education could compile and publish data on teacher compensation nationwide, along with suggested guidelines for pay and benefits.

To your point 3--we are. That's the point. Now the shortages are blistering. It's to the point now where you can no longer say "If you can't accept that then find something else to do" because there is no one to take the place of those leaving in the classroom.

So.

Now what?
 
Actually private schools do no better than public schools. You bought the propaganda!

Vouchers do NOT work and there is tons of evidence to prove it.

This may all be very true but that does not mean we have to keep kids in public schools, in the same way that the gov should own health care.
 
Actually private schools do no better than public schools. You bought the propaganda!

Vouchers do NOT work and there is tons of evidence to prove it.

Private schools actually do a lot better than public schools- that's why President Trump sends his boy to private school, and President Obama sent his children as well, even though he is a big supporter of teachers unions.

In my hometown, the private schools also excelled at academics compared to the government school system. Though arguably, the public schools provided better training in hand to hand combat and small arms as the students had to be prepared for their classmates to try and use a shiv to take their lunch money in the public institutions.
 
You could not do my job for five days running. Not five days running, I guarantee you that.

At the end of one teaching day, I have taught 150 elementary children, in every grade Kind-5th. Six classes, 45 minutes long.

That's day one. Tomorrow, you get up and do it all again. You get no aid or helper. Once your 25 kindergartners leave the room, here come 25 4th graders.

Six times a day on Monday. Tues, Wed. Thurs. Etc.
You are correct but that does not mean you are worth that second gold coin. ;)
 
You could not do my job for five days running. Not five days running, I guarantee you that.

At the end of one teaching day, I have taught 150 elementary children, in every grade Kind-5th. Six classes, 45 minutes long.

That's day one. Tomorrow, you get up and do it all again. You get no aid or helper. Once your 25 kindergartners leave the room, here come 25 4th graders.

Six times a day on Monday. Tues, Wed. Thurs. Etc.
Here we go again with the you can't do my job because I'm a teacher and teachers are awesome shit.

Get over yourself.
 
Here we go again with the you can't do my job because I'm a teacher and teachers are awesome shit.

Get over yourself.

Didn't say that, nor did I say that I even I do not want to do my job. I'm ready, and I do.

But it's not an easy job by a long stretch as so many believe.
 
Didn't say that, nor did I say that I even I do not want to do my job. I'm ready, and I do.

But it's not an easy job by a long stretch as so many believe.
And it isn't as tough as you need people to think it is
 
And I'm sure you're comparing that to giving guitar lessons one on one. Yep
No I'm comparing that to literally every other job.

In general if a person is trained to do a job they can do it.

It is the epitome of hubris to think that no one else can do your job.

I have not found any teacher I have ever had or have ever met to be so exceptional that no one else can do their job.

Like I said get over yourself
 
No I'm comparing that to literally every other job.

In general if a person is trained to do a job they can do it.

It is the epitome of hubris to think that no one else can do your job.

I have not found any teacher I have ever had or have ever met to be so exceptional that no one else can do their job.

Like I said get over yourself

You keep putting words in my mouth. I didn't say "no one else can do my job". I think many of the old men on this forum could not do my job, and I'd be right about that, and the specific one I addressed had the good grace and humor to admit it.

That said, there are millions of jobs I cannot do, and I admit it, and I don't go around telling people how their jobs are worthless and anyone could do it all the time.
 
You keep putting words in my mouth. I didn't say "no one else can do my job". I think many of the old men on this forum could not do my job, and I'd be right about that, and the specific one I addressed had the good grace and humor to admit it.

That said, there are millions of jobs I cannot do, and I admit it, and I don't go around telling people how their jobs are worthless and anyone could do it all the time.
You could not do my job for five days running. Not five days running, I guarantee you that.
 
Did you mean to make a point with that Blues Man

Because I said exactly what I told you I did. I told that particular poster he could not do my job five days running, not that no one else could do my job. Did you realize you quoted me saying exactly what I told you I said?

Wow
 

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