Taxes and who Really pays

[Nienna]

Real clear politics my a$$.
It ignores the amount of money that rich people make.

If the top 1% of taxpayers make 20% of the income, and pay 20% of the income taxes, then that's fair, no?

That was exactly the point of the article. If the top 1% of taxpayers makes 20% of the income, then how come they are paying 40% of the taxes? Not fair.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

And you are for the flat tax? I think you said that.

Yes, I still want to know. Your poor people thing is again more Liberal BS. Someone making 14k will not pay federal income tax, who ya think yer foolin?

So tell me, tell me, why should some pay more? Yer still in the F range,
but you have a lot of company, as I said, no one has ever been able to justify with reason, taxing some more than others.

actually, nobody has ever been able to explain why any taxation other than basic live necessities is fair, legal or moral.

As far as defense goes, everyone should pay equally. Rich or poor need the safety secured equally.

As for wealth goes, if a person owns two homes, a business that uses alot of trucks, then they use more govt services, roads, police protection, fire protection, and should pay accordingly. That would be taken care of by gas taxes and property taxes. The military should be provided by across the board consumption tax on food or something, not sure, havent thought that one completely through, but it needs to be something everyone pays for.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Life's not fair.


What you're talking about is not the "true" flat tax, so you aren't disagreeing as much as discussing something different altogether.


It's all the same.
Income tax, consumption tax.

Money is only good if you spend it, otherwise it's just green paper.
So, make a few bucks and pay a certain percentage of income tax, or make a few bucks, then buy something and pay a certain percentage of consumption tax, it's all the same thing.

I would prefer the consumption tax because it is harder to cheat on, gives the govt less control on how you spend your money.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Actually, you're not. There's a state sales tax in 48 states, and that hasn't caused a black market. Then there's the fact that the seller doesn't benefit from the tax break and runs the greatest risk of being caught. Sure, there'll be some dodges, but compare that to how many people dodge their taxes now that you can do it by yourself.



Saving money for later instead of spending it is far wiser and is good for the economy, as it lowers interest rates on loans (banks have more money to dole out) and it encourages investment, which isn't taxed and leads to booms. Not to mention that when people start saving money rather than spending it, they start looking to the future for things like home ownership, another thing that benefits the economy.



Now, I am currently aware that discouragement is not the sole reason for taxation. It is, however, an undeniable side affect of any tax. Look at the luxury tax. When it was enacted, it didn't collect more money, it just meant fewer people bought luxuries. Now, as we have seen, whether you save, invest, or spend, it benefits the economy. However, if you're discouraged from making money in the first place through income tax, it hurts the economy, so why don't we tax something other than income? Taxing spending at the retail level won't do that much to discourage spending, as spending is already taxed through embedded income tax. However, eliminating the income tax will encourage increased earnings, leading to an economic boom wherever it goes.



We agree on something? Pinch me. Personally, I think this alone is enough to justify eliminating the income tax, but then there's all those other reasons that make it all the sweeter.

Pinch you? HIT ME WITH A FREAKING SLUDGE HAMMER!

There is another thread about a politician that you agree with all the time. I dont have one, but NOT ONE THING you said about taxes do I disagree with, and I HAVENT read that book you talk of.

Everything you say makes sense, and I think Max is really on the same page as MR P and us. I think we should all go into the polls together, singing Kumbaya, and get rid of all the wasteful govt spending, then once that is accomplished, on the way out to our cars, we can get into a free for all slugfest on how to handle the social ills, libs vs conservatives

 

[Max Power]

actually, nobody has ever been able to explain why any taxation other than basic live necessities is fair, legal or moral.

As far as defense goes, everyone should pay equally. Rich or poor need the safety secured equally.

As for wealth goes, if a person owns two homes, a business that uses alot of trucks, then they use more govt services, roads, police protection, fire protection, and should pay accordingly. That would be taken care of by gas taxes and property taxes. The military should be provided by across the board consumption tax on food or something, not sure, havent thought that one completely through, but it needs to be something everyone pays for.

The problem with property tax, is that it essentially destroys the entire idea of ownership.

If you have to pay a yearly fee on something you "own," then you don't really own it, you're just renting it from the government.

 

[Hobbit]

You'd have to ask yourself if that would change if the sales tax was changed from ~8% to ~40%.

Let me just say that we're only talking about different methods of collecting money, not about collecting a different amount of money. It is the huge amount of money collected, where the inefficiency lies - NOT how it is collected.
Unless something is done to fix that, this will only redistribute the problem.

The thing is that right now, there is an average of a 22% embedded tax on everything you buy that's collected at every stage of production. This tax is eliminated in the black market already. Without these taxes (they're income taxes), our competitive economy will drop prices. Now add a 23% inclusive sales tax and, on average, there's a price increase of 1%. You're not saving much more money than you were with the black market before, and the black market is at least as dangerous (legally) as it has always been. There's also the discount with used products, as the fair tax would only tax goods and services at the retail level.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

The problem with property tax, is that it essentially destroys the entire idea of ownership.

If you have to pay a yearly fee on something you "own," then you don't really own it, you're just renting it from the government.

Thats true. SOmeone once told me, "you think you own your house. Quit paying your property taxes and the real owners will show up"

I think property taxes should be appllied, but not at the point of forfeiture of property if you dont pay them. Hey, but then, Im getting pretty idealistic here.

Hobbit, you kinda lose me in your last post.

 

[Hobbit]

Thats true. SOmeone once told me, "you think you own your house. Quit paying your property taxes and the real owners will show up"

I think property taxes should be appllied, but not at the point of forfeiture of property if you dont pay them. Hey, but then, Im getting pretty idealistic here.

Hobbit, you kinda lose me in your last post.

Boortz is better at explaining it than me. Basically, the black market for tax dodging won't be any more of a problem than it is now, and some of the incentive will be gone, too, since used items will be tax free.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Boortz is better at explaining it than me. Basically, the black market for tax dodging won't be any more of a problem than it is now, and some of the incentive will be gone, too, since used items will be tax free.

I agree with that. The creation of a black market is just a smoke screen. Anyone honest enough to want real tax reform would have to admit that. The current black market is sooooooooooooooo much bigger than anything that could be created. Hell, its a national pastime to cheat on ones INCOME taxes.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

What a surprise. Another right winger simply posting a copy of an article. What original thoughts these people have.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

What a surprise. Another right winger simply posting a copy of an article. What original thoughts these people have.

What a surprise. Tuba boy is bitching.

It's called a starting point. I see you ignored the 30 something posts by Conservatives over 4 pages that followed the article. Posts that add to the conversation, unlike yours.

 

[zadie be]

All I know is that out of the 4000 a month we bring home we get 2400 of that. Then we still pay property taxes and sales taxes. I want to pay my share but, not most of my income it seems.

 

[editec]

The problem with property tax, is that it essentially destroys the entire idea of ownership.

If you have to pay a yearly fee on something you "own," then you don't really own it, you're just renting it from the government.

Yes!

 

[editec]

All I know is that out of the 4000 a month we bring home we get 2400 of that. Then we still pay property taxes and sales taxes. I want to pay my share but, not most of my income it seems.

How on earth does that happen?

You make 48K a year and you're in the 40% tax bracket?

You need a new accountant.