Study released today on guns

Truthmatters

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http://www.vpc.org/studies/lessonsunlearned.pdf


The Violence Policy Center (VPC) is a national non-profit educational organization that conducts
research and public education on violence in America and provides information and analysis to policymakers,
journalists, advocates, and the general public. This report was authored by VPC Executive Director Josh
Sugarmann and VPC Policy Analyst Marty Langley. The study was funded in part with the support of the
David Bohnett Foundation, The Joyce Foundation, and the Public Welfare Foundation. Past studies released
by the VPC include:


As Bart McEntire, a supervisory special agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and
Explosives has stated, “You’re seeing the bubbling [of antigovernment sentiment] right now. You
see people buying into what they’re saying. It’s primed to grow. The only thing you don’t have to
set it on fire is a Waco or Ruby Ridge.”77
 
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manu1959

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well hopefully obama will waco or ruby ridge these people.....
 

boedicca

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http://www.vpc.org/studies/lessonsunlearned.pdf


The Violence Policy Center (VPC) is a national non-profit educational organization that conducts
research and public education on violence in America and provides information and analysis to policymakers,
journalists, advocates, and the general public. This report was authored by VPC Executive Director Josh
Sugarmann and VPC Policy Analyst Marty Langley. The study was funded in part with the support of the
David Bohnett Foundation, The Joyce Foundation, and the Public Welfare Foundation. Past studies released
by the VPC include:


As Bart McEntire, a supervisory special agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and
Explosives has stated, “You’re seeing the bubbling [of antigovernment sentiment] right now. You
see people buying into what they’re saying. It’s primed to grow. The only thing you don’t have to
set it on fire is a Waco or Ruby Ridge.”77


As you are so fond of links and evidence, here is a good response to Clinton's attack on the Tea Party and your follow on insinuations:

And I won’t soon forget Bill Clinton’s careless comments, either.

For Clinton to suggest that today’s Tea Party participants are equivalent to the evil men who killed 168 of my fellow hometown heroes - and injured about 800 more - is beyond inappropriate. This is a serious matter. One that I am (almost) uncomfortable writing about, mostly because it dredges up an old, ugly history in our nation. However, I think it’s important not to allow these outrageous statements by President Clinton go unanswered.

Clinton’s comments suggest that he forgets his own history:

• It was, in fact, the Clinton Administration’s public relations disaster at Ruby Ridge that incensed anti-government extremists like Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh. It was the Clinton Administration’s Justice Department that issued a revised shoot-to-kill order against the wife of Randy Weaver and their 13-year old son, Sammy; shootings that were later looked upon by the United States Senate and others as being outside of the normal protocols of standard FBI sniper Codes of Conduct (even though, to be fair, the 13-year old boy did shoot at the Agents.) Regardless, killing women and children under most any circumstances is generally outside the norm of our women-and-children-first culture. Whether warranted or not, those killings incensed a fringe element that were already gunning for the Feds.

• Adding fuel to the fire (literally), the Clinton Administration’s Justice Department once again stumbled in their handling of the raid on David Koresh’s Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas. Under direct order from Attorney General Janet Reno, Federal Law enforcement officers found themselves in a confusing standoff and square in the middle of further deaths of women and children – another public relations nightmare that took months for Clinton to fully explain.

• Let me be clear, I do not pretend to even begin to understand the likes of people like Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge, nor David Koresh in Waco; those lifestyles and the segregation from society which those lifestyles represent are entirely foreign to me and all that I was raised to be. Nevertheless, the Clinton Administration allowed themselves to get drawn into a standoff - not once but twice. The events that happened on Clinton's watch fanned the flames of the hatred that anti-government extremists already had for the Federal government.

• Bill Clinton's actions and the actions of his Attorney General are linked directly to Oklahoma City. Allow me to point out that the attack on Oklahoma City came on April 19 – the “anniversary” date of the deaths at Waco. Coincidence? Hardly.

• Lastly, the anti-government Terrorists involved in the Oklahoma City bombing hated - with fervor - anyone who was a member of federal law enforcement. In fact, in the five months following the Ruby Ridge standoff, Timothy McVeigh worked booths at gun shows and openly handed out literature calling for the death of the FBI sniper involved in the case. An absolute disgust and disgrace.

• Contrast all of this to the Tea Party members who support our troops passionately and have nothing but love for the patriots who also serve at the highest levels of law enforcement. At every event I’ve been to, the Tea Party-goers have in fact gone out of their way to walk over, shake hands, and thank law enforcement for all they do.

• Further contrast still is that the anti-government extremists of the Clinton-era wanted nothing more than to slip into the woods and get away from their government. Contrast that with the Tea Party movement today: these are folks who walk instead toward the Public square (not away from it). They're folks who actually want to hear from their elected officials, and want to be active, engaged, participating members of their government. One only needs to look at the number of "Tea Party" candidates springing up across the country, or look at the number of Tea Party chapters in California who actively encourage their members to apply as panelists for the California Redistricting Commission. Believe me, these folks are knocking on the door of the Capitol; they want “in”... not out.


Perhaps Bubba should bone up on recent history so he can refresh his memory of the events of the mid-1990s; especially the litany of tragic events that happened on his watch.



BLOG.KSTREETCOMMUNICATIONS.COM: Back Off, 'Bubba': Why Bill Clinton Needs to Stop Talking about the Oklahoma City Bombing
 

martybegan

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The VPC is about as anti-gun as you can get. If it goes bang they hate it. and again, McVeigh used a freaking bomb, no guns involved. he left the NRA because they were to weak on guns for christ's sake.

If people are so against guns stop being wimps by attempting an end run around the 2nd amendment and go and try to repeal it.

I trust the VPC when i comes to gun/crime statistics as far as I will trust PETA with a recipie for chicken goulash.
 

Alpha1

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http://www.vpc.org/studies/lessonsunlearned.pdf


The Violence Policy Center (VPC) is a national non-profit educational organization that conducts
research and public education on violence in America and provides information and analysis to policymakers,
journalists, advocates, and the general public. This report was authored by VPC Executive Director Josh
Sugarmann and VPC Policy Analyst Marty Langley. The study was funded in part with the support of the
David Bohnett Foundation, The Joyce Foundation, and the Public Welfare Foundation. Past studies released
by the VPC include:


As Bart McEntire, a supervisory special agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and
Explosives has stated, “You’re seeing the bubbling [of antigovernment sentiment] right now. You
see people buying into what they’re saying. It’s primed to grow. The only thing you don’t have to
set it on fire is a Waco or Ruby Ridge.”77

You can't seriously think we're all gonna sit here and read a 23 page study for some as yet unknown reason do you....?

I got through the intro without puking but couldn't take a chance on reading the rest.
Sounds like they want to blame the NRA for McViegh because he was once a member....

He was also an Army vet...are they blaming the Army?
He was also a catholic....are they blaming the Catholics?
He was also a Security Guard...are they blaming Security Guards?

and then it never mentions McVeigh quit the NRA some time before this bombing ever happened...guess that part is irrelevant...

As a matter of fact, the whole fucking study is irrelevant and obviously far left-wing....
I suspect the left is setting the stage for another attack on so called right wing militias even though they are innocent of any actual illegal acts...well, ,,,,other than being outspoken loudmouths that is....:talktothehand:
 

CrusaderFrank

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OK, after Leftists Thugs savagely beat the Jindal staffer and her BF I found that, basically in my county I will not be able to get a full carry CCW permit, I can only get it for "hunting and target" WTF?

What's the fucking point?!
 

Vast LWC

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As you are so fond of links and evidence, here is a good response to Clinton's attack on the Tea Party and your follow on insinuations:

And I won’t soon forget Bill Clinton’s careless comments, either.

For Clinton to suggest that today’s Tea Party participants are equivalent to the evil men who killed 168 of my fellow hometown heroes - and injured about 800 more - is beyond inappropriate. This is a serious matter. One that I am (almost) uncomfortable writing about, mostly because it dredges up an old, ugly history in our nation. However, I think it’s important not to allow these outrageous statements by President Clinton go unanswered.

Clinton’s comments suggest that he forgets his own history:

• It was, in fact, the Clinton Administration’s public relations disaster at Ruby Ridge that incensed anti-government extremists like Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh. It was the Clinton Administration’s Justice Department that issued a revised shoot-to-kill order against the wife of Randy Weaver and their 13-year old son, Sammy; shootings that were later looked upon by the United States Senate and others as being outside of the normal protocols of standard FBI sniper Codes of Conduct (even though, to be fair, the 13-year old boy did shoot at the Agents.) Regardless, killing women and children under most any circumstances is generally outside the norm of our women-and-children-first culture. Whether warranted or not, those killings incensed a fringe element that were already gunning for the Feds.

• Adding fuel to the fire (literally), the Clinton Administration’s Justice Department once again stumbled in their handling of the raid on David Koresh’s Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas. Under direct order from Attorney General Janet Reno, Federal Law enforcement officers found themselves in a confusing standoff and square in the middle of further deaths of women and children – another public relations nightmare that took months for Clinton to fully explain.

• Let me be clear, I do not pretend to even begin to understand the likes of people like Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge, nor David Koresh in Waco; those lifestyles and the segregation from society which those lifestyles represent are entirely foreign to me and all that I was raised to be. Nevertheless, the Clinton Administration allowed themselves to get drawn into a standoff - not once but twice. The events that happened on Clinton's watch fanned the flames of the hatred that anti-government extremists already had for the Federal government.

• Bill Clinton's actions and the actions of his Attorney General are linked directly to Oklahoma City. Allow me to point out that the attack on Oklahoma City came on April 19 – the “anniversary” date of the deaths at Waco. Coincidence? Hardly.

• Lastly, the anti-government Terrorists involved in the Oklahoma City bombing hated - with fervor - anyone who was a member of federal law enforcement. In fact, in the five months following the Ruby Ridge standoff, Timothy McVeigh worked booths at gun shows and openly handed out literature calling for the death of the FBI sniper involved in the case. An absolute disgust and disgrace.

• Contrast all of this to the Tea Party members who support our troops passionately and have nothing but love for the patriots who also serve at the highest levels of law enforcement. At every event I’ve been to, the Tea Party-goers have in fact gone out of their way to walk over, shake hands, and thank law enforcement for all they do.

• Further contrast still is that the anti-government extremists of the Clinton-era wanted nothing more than to slip into the woods and get away from their government. Contrast that with the Tea Party movement today: these are folks who walk instead toward the Public square (not away from it). They're folks who actually want to hear from their elected officials, and want to be active, engaged, participating members of their government. One only needs to look at the number of "Tea Party" candidates springing up across the country, or look at the number of Tea Party chapters in California who actively encourage their members to apply as panelists for the California Redistricting Commission. Believe me, these folks are knocking on the door of the Capitol; they want “in”... not out.


Perhaps Bubba should bone up on recent history so he can refresh his memory of the events of the mid-1990s; especially the litany of tragic events that happened on his watch.



BLOG.KSTREETCOMMUNICATIONS.COM: Back Off, 'Bubba': Why Bill Clinton Needs to Stop Talking about the Oklahoma City Bombing

So, just to be absolutely clear:

You feel the Oklahoma City Bombing was justified, because Clinton drove them to it.

Is that really how you want to go on the record? Excusing terrorism by agreeing with the rationale for it? Nice work!

So I guess you feel 9/11 was justified due to "Western Imperialism".
 

boedicca

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So, just to be absolutely clear:

You feel the Oklahoma City Bombing was justified, because Clinton drove them to it.

Is that really how you want to go on the record? Excusing terrorism by agreeing with the rationale for it? Nice work!

So I guess you feel 9/11 was justified due to "Western Imperialism".


You have a problem with Clarity, don't you?

I believe that equating peaceful demonstrators exercising their first amendment rights to oppose Big Government Expansion to Timothy McVeigh PINS THE BOGOMETER.

I also believe that equating said peaceful demonstrators with the 9/11 terrorists is beyond disgusting.

I won't return the Nice Work compliment.
 

Vast LWC

<-Mohammed
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I am all for 2nd amendment rights, as has been discussed in the past, but I will say one thing:

The NRA tends to take really extremist positions on many issues. They will not allow any compromise at all.

The Anti-Gun lobby is the same way.

I'm kind of feel that compromises, like "no rocket launchers or tanks" and "no guns in bars" are OK, but the NRA won't hear of it.

It's kind of like the whole Abortion thing, it's either all or nothing.
 

Lonestar_logic

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I am all for 2nd amendment rights, as has been discussed in the past, but I will say one thing:

The NRA tends to take really extremist positions on many issues. They will not allow any compromise at all.

The Anti-Gun lobby is the same way.

I'm kind of feel that compromises, like "no rocket launchers or tanks" and "no guns in bars" are OK, but the NRA won't hear of it.

It's kind of like the whole Abortion thing, it's either all or nothing.

How long have you been a member of the NRA?
 

Vast LWC

<-Mohammed
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You have a problem with Clarity, don't you?

I believe that equating peaceful demonstrators exercising their first amendment rights to oppose Big Government Expansion to Timothy McVeigh PINS THE BOGOMETER.

I agree with this.

I also believe that equating said peaceful demonstrators with the 9/11 terrorists is beyond disgusting.

When exactly did I do this?

I won't return the Nice Work compliment.

I'd appreciate the irony, if your statement made any sense whatsoever.

In the post I quoted, you were making excuses to Timothy McVeigh. I neither compared McVeigh to the peaceful demonstrators, nor indicated any link at all to the 9/11 Terrorists.

Instead, I questioned why you were defending terrorism like McVeigh's and asked if you also thought the 9/11 attacks were justified, as you indicated by blaming Clinton for inciting the attack:

&#8226; Bill Clinton's actions and the actions of his Attorney General are linked directly to Oklahoma City. Allow me to point out that the attack on Oklahoma City came on April 19 &#8211; the &#8220;anniversary&#8221; date of the deaths at Waco. Coincidence? Hardly.
 
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OP
Truthmatters

Truthmatters

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The VPC is about as anti-gun as you can get. If it goes bang they hate it. and again, McVeigh used a freaking bomb, no guns involved. he left the NRA because they were to weak on guns for christ's sake.

If people are so against guns stop being wimps by attempting an end run around the 2nd amendment and go and try to repeal it.

I trust the VPC when i comes to gun/crime statistics as far as I will trust PETA with a recipie for chicken goulash.

No one wants to take your damned guns
 

AllieBaba

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So, just to be absolutely clear:

You feel the Oklahoma City Bombing was justified, because Clinton drove them to it.

Is that really how you want to go on the record? Excusing terrorism by agreeing with the rationale for it? Nice work!

So I guess you feel 9/11 was justified due to "Western Imperialism".


You have a problem with Clarity, don't you?

I'd say so.
:cuckoo:
 

Vast LWC

<-Mohammed
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I am all for 2nd amendment rights, as has been discussed in the past, but I will say one thing:

The NRA tends to take really extremist positions on many issues. They will not allow any compromise at all.

The Anti-Gun lobby is the same way.

I'm kind of feel that compromises, like "no rocket launchers or tanks" and "no guns in bars" are OK, but the NRA won't hear of it.

It's kind of like the whole Abortion thing, it's either all or nothing.

How long have you been a member of the NRA?

I am not, but I have read a bunch of their literature, as an avid gun owner.
 

AllieBaba

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The VPC is about as anti-gun as you can get. If it goes bang they hate it. and again, McVeigh used a freaking bomb, no guns involved. he left the NRA because they were to weak on guns for christ's sake.

If people are so against guns stop being wimps by attempting an end run around the 2nd amendment and go and try to repeal it.

I trust the VPC when i comes to gun/crime statistics as far as I will trust PETA with a recipie for chicken goulash.

No one wants to take your damned guns

"A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:

35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes."

Barack Obama on Gun Control
 

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