Stone to rehablitate Hilter Stalin and Mao.

[editec]

This continuing debate about whether or not NAZIism is socialism or captialism requires that one ignore the facts.

Hitler's AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENT employed a mixed economy since Germany was both highly socialized and highly cpitalistic at the same time long before WWI or WWII.

Authoritarian regimes can come to us under any economic system, folks.

Both Hitler's mixed economic system and Stalin's planned communist system were nighmares because they were run by IDEALOGUES who ideas were mad, and who didn't give a crap about their people.

 

[garyd]

Another point I tried to make Edit Socialism is an economic system not necessarily a system of government. Various systems of government including for that matter tribal can adopt a socialist economic system. In fact most tribal governments do to some extent. Socialism is an economic system in which the government through one means or another controls the means of production. The government which was essentially Adolph and his cronies controled by hook or by crook the means of production. You made what they told you to make or they had an oven with your name on it.

By the way Stalin also had an authoritarian government that ran a socialist economic model

 

[Sodafin]

Gary -

You are absolutely right that there is a line between political system and economic systems, but I think the point you are still struggling with here is the difference between policy and ideology.

Policies may come and go depending on the situation, but ideology is the basis upon which political systems are based.

A Christian Democrat politician who backs abortion law reform does not automatically become a Socialist purely because be backs abortion law reform. As long as the basis of his beliefs conform to the orthodoxy of Christian Democratic principles, he may well remain within the party. (This is an extreme example, btw!)

Consider Nazism from the perspective of class, and we see that Hitler enjoyed massive support from the middle and upper classes - quite the opposite to Stalin.

Consider Nazism from the perspective of capital, and we see that Hitler based his policies on the creation of wealth, the flow of capital, and the ability of the rich to get richer - quite the opposite to Stalin again.

The policies the two men utilized often were the same, because they were both totalitarian states - but ideologically they were 180 degrees apart.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Gary -

You are absolutely right that there is a line between political system and economic systems, but I think the point you are still struggling with here is the difference between policy and ideology.

Policies may come and go depending on the situation, but ideology is the basis upon which political systems are based.

A Christian Democrat politician who backs abortion law reform does not automatically become a Socialist purely because be backs abortion law reform. As long as the basis of his beliefs conform to the orthodoxy of Christian Democratic principles, he may well remain within the party. (This is an extreme example, btw!)

Consider Nazism from the perspective of class, and we see that Hitler enjoyed massive support from the middle and upper classes - quite the opposite to Stalin.

Consider Nazism from the perspective of capital, and we see that Hitler based his policies on the creation of wealth, the flow of capital, and the ability of the rich to get richer - quite the opposite to Stalin again.

The policies the two men utilized often were the same, because they were both totalitarian states - but ideologically they were 180 degrees apart.

So what your point jack?
Only conservatives can be Nazis?

Seems to me all you have is Nationalism as a benchmark, everything else is pure left wing?
whats the end game?

 

[Sodafin]

Fitnah -

You seem to completely lost here...I have no idea what you are on about.

I can only suggest you start by trying to get up to speed by reading this link, and get back to us if you have any specific questions.

Political spectrum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Yeah, Ive had it with your models and lines .
Cut to the chase, bring, the money show how there is some connection between conservatism and Nazism.
The left wing connection has been demonstrated by many here, you haven't brought anything but the model.
Great , right wing =nationalism. how the right wing policies in Nazism.

 

[Sodafin]

Cut to the chase, bring, the money show how there is some connection between conservatism and Nazism.

Are you actually interested?

Will you actually commit to reading and seriously considering what is posted?

 

[mal]

Stalin!



peace...

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Cut to the chase, bring, the money show how there is some connection between conservatism and Nazism.

Are you actually interested?

Will you actually commit to reading and seriously considering what is posted?

Shit or get off the pot prima donna.

 

[Sodafin]

Fitnah -

If you aren't actually interested in the topic - and I think it's clear that you aren't - that's fine by me.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

 

[Big Fitz]

Fitnah -

If you aren't actually interested in the topic - and I think it's clear that you aren't - that's fine by me.

Ahhhh.... "I'm not talking unless you promise to 'come around' to my point of view" stance.

 

[HistoricalTruth]

Interesting to see people rush to judge a concept without even reading the link...

"He's not saying we're going to come out with a more positive view of Hitler," emphasized professor Peter Kuznick, the lead writer on the project. "But we're going to describe him as a historical phenomenon and not just somebody who appeared out of nowhere."

History. Scary. Wrong. It must be stopped.

I'm not sure what the good professor is hinting at, but anyone who cares enough to read history already knows that Hitler is not somebody who just appeared out of nowhere. He was a product, not an innovator.

I am curious to see this film, mostly to discover how they came to their conclusions. I have a feeling, knowing Stone, that this will be more a commentary on current political climes than a real history lesson.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I will have to assume that the most pompous sanctimouios gas bag I have seen on the interwebnet has moved on . Ive never seen that kind of approach to online posting,

"Oh watch out, Ill post my proof if you just beg me to" .
What a ******* clown.

The left wing connection /policies have been provided. The right wing policies of Nazi Germany...
Ah not so much .Gas bag.

Sure "Nationalism" is known as" right wing" the rest of Nazis policies, they are by and large left wing progressives policies Mr Journalist.
They have been documented in this thread .
Please bring it , even if it takes you all of 5 minutes to invent.

If you are not sure what conservative ideas are consult the 5000 year leap or the federalist papers "journalist".

 

[L.K.Eder]

I will have to assume that the most pompous sanctimouios gas bag I have seen on the interwebnet has moved on . Ive never seen that kind of approach to online posting,

"Oh watch out, Ill post my proof if you just beg me to" .
What a ******* clown.

The left wing connection /policies have been provided. The right wing policies of Nazi Germany...
Ah not so much .Gas bag.

Sure "Nationalism" is known as" right wing" the rest of Nazis policies, they are by and large left wing progressives policies Mr Journalist.
They have been documented in this thread .
Please bring it , even if it takes you all of 5 minutes to invent.

If you are not sure what conservative ideas are consult the 5000 year leap or the federalist papers "journalist".

sure, "Nationalism" is known as "right wing"...

i think the problem with the third reich was kinda sorta connected to this nationalism.

i mean they did not invade poland e.g. to export the idea of trade unions.

 

[Big Fitz]

Nationalism is now a defining characteristic of the right wing??? WTF is this crap?

I'm sure, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea and even the former Soviet Union were/are just dripping with nationalism and patriotism.

These things are not political planks, they are ideas that are independent of politics. They are adjectives describing love and support of one's nation and/or government.

The French, Italian and German resistance movements during WW2 could be described as ultra nationalistic or patriotic towards their former status. On the other hand, the OFFICIAL governments of those nations can ALSO be considered extremely nationalistic, but I don't know if they could be considered patriotic really, for they did come on the heels of a governmental system that destroyed the previous styles of government in their nations.

To try and obfuscate and say that nationalism is automatically right wing is pap and just plain lazy thinking at best.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I will have to assume that the most pompous sanctimouios gas bag I have seen on the interwebnet has moved on . Ive never seen that kind of approach to online posting,

"Oh watch out, Ill post my proof if you just beg me to" .
What a ******* clown.

The left wing connection /policies have been provided. The right wing policies of Nazi Germany...
Ah not so much .Gas bag.

Sure "Nationalism" is known as" right wing" the rest of Nazis policies, they are by and large left wing progressives policies Mr Journalist.
They have been documented in this thread .
Please bring it , even if it takes you all of 5 minutes to invent.

If you are not sure what conservative ideas are consult the 5000 year leap or the federalist papers "journalist".

sure, "Nationalism" is known as "right wing"...

i think the problem with the third reich was kinda sorta connected to this nationalism.

i mean they did not invade poland e.g. to export the idea of trade unions.

All nations have been nationalistic until now, until this one, where we no longer have an interest in having borders that are defined or protected .

 

[Big Fitz]

All nations have been nationalistic until now, until this one, where we no longer have an interest in having borders that are defined or protected .

No, a radical, vocal minority has twisted our ideals around to destroy this nation. All US citizens who love America want borders, and desire to have them clear and defined. They just want organized and clean LEGAL immigration. Not the replay of the Oklahoma Land Race by every nation in the world trying to set up little colonies in our borders.

End the Kennedy Immigration Laws from the 1960's and return quotas, enforce the borders with troops if need be and increase legal immigration.

 

[L.K.Eder]

lol, fitz attacks fitnahs strawman.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

All nations have been nationalistic until now, until this one, where we no longer have an interest in having borders that are defined or protected .

No, a radical, vocal minority has twisted our ideals around to destroy this nation. All US citizens who love America want borders, and desire to have them clear and defined. They just want organized and clean LEGAL immigration. Not the replay of the Oklahoma Land Race by every nation in the world trying to set up little colonies in our borders.

End the Kennedy Immigration Laws from the 1960's and return quotas, enforce the borders with troops if need be and increase legal immigration.

I was being hyperbolic to illustrate the nonsense of the left .