What's new
US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Stem Cell Lunacy

liberalogic

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
539
Reaction score
48
Points
16
Location
NJ
Stem cell veto would be Bush first
Health: Lawmakers predict votes for Senate passage, but not override.
By Laurie Kellman, Associated Press Writer

http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_4060745

WASHINGTON - Will he or won't he? Supporters of a bill to allow federal financing of embryonic stem cell research are hoping something will happen to change President Bush's mind about vetoing the measure awaiting Senate approval.

It would be Bush's first veto of any legislation but - so far - the president appears to be standing firm in his determination to block the stem cell bill.

Neither the House nor Senate has demonstrated enough support for the bill to override a veto, though the House probably will try, just to give Bush a definitive victory in the showdown.

Supporters of the research hold out faint hope that Bush, presented with new data and pressured by election-year politics, might reverse course and sign the bill.

"This would be his first veto in six years, on something that the vast majority of the public supports," said Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa. "What would come down on him would be all the scientists, all the Nobel laureates and everyone else who supports it."

Polls show that 70 percent of the public supports the bill, which would expand federal aid for embryonic stem cell research. The process is believed by many scientists to hold the most promise for curing diseases such as juvenile diabetes, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's that strike millions of people.

Set for House action are bills to protect the Pledge of Allegiance from court challenges and a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, which failed in the Senate. Bills to encourage stem cell research from sources other than embryos also are expected to be voted on this week.

But it is the Senate's stem cell bill that probably will draw the most attention - and Bush's first veto.

In 2001, Bush halted federal funding of new embryonic stem cell studies, comparing them to abortion because the process of extracting the crucial stem cells destroys the days-old


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Advertisement


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



embryo.

He said at the time that such federal support for research could continue on the 78 stem cell lines then thought to exist. But in the years since, the National Institutes of Health have confirmed that a fraction of that number of lines exist and that few, if any, are viable for clinical trials.

Supporters hope that development might change Bush's mind. But the White House, struggling for election-year credibility with its conservative base, has left no wiggle room in its public or private statements.

White House adviser Karl Rove last week said Bush was "emphatic" about his intent to veto the bill. White House spokesman Ken Lisaius said Friday the president would follow through if the bill came to him.

That could happen this week. Vote counters on both sides of the debate in the Senate say at least 60 votes for the bill exist - perhaps as many as 64; that's enough to pass it. But 67 votes would be required to overturn a veto if all 100 senators are present.

GOP Sen. Trent Lott, who said he will vote for the bill and predicted it will pass the Senate, said Sunday he believes "something could be worked out."

The House was 50 votes short of its two-thirds majority when it passed the bill last year, 238-194. House leaders were planning for a veto override attempt as soon as Bush vetoes it, probably before week's end.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


It's worth noting that even if you're pro-life, you should support stem-cell research. Most of the embryos used are from fertility clinics, where they are eventually discarded anyway. So the President would rather waste life than use it to save life.

A vote against this bill is not only unethical and immoral-- it is disgraceful. Maybe this is simply a ploy to keep people sick in order to fill the pockets of pharmaceutical companies. Or maybe, just maybe, it's mental retardation at its finest.
 

pegwinn

Top of the Food Chain
Joined
Apr 17, 2004
Messages
2,558
Reaction score
330
Points
98
Location
Texas
liberalogic said:
It's worth noting that even if you're pro-life, you should support stem-cell research. Most of the embryos used are from fertility clinics, where they are eventually discarded anyway. So the President would rather waste life than use it to save life.

A vote against this bill is not only unethical and immoral-- it is disgraceful. In your opinion. Maybe this is simply a ploy to keep people sick in order to fill the pockets of pharmaceutical companies. Conspiricy theory alert! Or maybe, just maybe, it's mental retardation at its finest. When in doubt just make it a personal attack right?

I oppose abortion. But, if we make use of the aborted fetus's then maybe some good can come out of all the bad. According to the NIH Adult and Cord cells also have some miracles just waiting to happen. Abortion and Organ Transplants have something in common. Someone has to die.
 

Hobbit

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Messages
5,099
Reaction score
423
Points
48
Location
Near Atlanta, GA
pegwinn said:
I oppose abortion. But, if we make use of the aborted fetus's then maybe some good can come out of all the bad. According to the NIH Adult and Cord cells also have some miracles just waiting to happen. Abortion and Organ Transplants have something in common. Someone has to die.

See, this is where you, through no fault of your own, are misinformed. Nobody's blocking stem cell research, just federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. So far, adult and umbilical stem cells have actually pulled off several medical miracles and get a crapload of private funding because of how valuable the research is. All forms of stem cell research have been going on for 50 years. During the same time that adult and umbilical cells have been producing miracles, embryonic stem cells have only been able to cause INCREDIBLY malignant cancer. If there was half as much of a future in embryonic stem cells as its proponents would have you believe, they'd be in the same boat as adult and umbilical stem cells, chasing investors off with a stick. The moral argument is also valid. I want abortion to stop. If 'valuable' medical research results from abortion, how much harder do you think it will be to stop?
 

theHawk

Registered Conservative
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
43,940
Reaction score
38,502
Points
3,605
Location
Arizona
There is zero reason every taxpayer should be forced to fund this. If you believe its a good cause,....*gasp*....DONATE your own damned money to the cause.

What a concept eh? :blowup:
 

Dr Grump

Platinum Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
31,458
Reaction score
6,355
Points
1,130
Location
From the Back of Beyond
Hobbit said:
During the same time that adult and umbilical cells have been producing miracles, embryonic stem cells have only been able to cause INCREDIBLY malignant cancer.
\

Got a credible link to this little nugget?
 

jillian

Princess
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
85,586
Reaction score
17,907
Points
2,220
Location
The Other Side of Paradise
Dr Grump said:
\

Got a credible link to this little nugget?

OMG! He really said that?!?!?!?!?!? Funny, Israel and South Korea have done tons of stem cell reasearch and had huge advances in treating spinal injuries. That's a new one! (Could be because it's simply untrue).
 

Dr Grump

Platinum Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
31,458
Reaction score
6,355
Points
1,130
Location
From the Back of Beyond
jillian said:
OMG! He really said that?!?!?!?!?!? Funny, Israel and South Korea have done tons of stem cell reasearch and had huge advances in treating spinal injuries. That's a new one! (Could be because it's simply untrue).

My money is on him producing an op-ed piece from a religious site...:teeth:
 

Hagbard Celine

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
1,756
Reaction score
61
Points
48
Location
Atlanta, GA
Hobbit said:
See, this is where you, through no fault of your own, are misinformed. Nobody's blocking stem cell research, just federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. So far, adult and umbilical stem cells have actually pulled off several medical miracles and get a crapload of private funding because of how valuable the research is. All forms of stem cell research have been going on for 50 years. During the same time that adult and umbilical cells have been producing miracles, embryonic stem cells have only been able to cause INCREDIBLY malignant cancer. If there was half as much of a future in embryonic stem cells as its proponents would have you believe, they'd be in the same boat as adult and umbilical stem cells, chasing investors off with a stick. The moral argument is also valid. I want abortion to stop. If 'valuable' medical research results from abortion, how much harder do you think it will be to stop?
You are wrong. Embryonic stem cells were not isolated and grown until 1998 when James Thomson of the University of Wisconsin first isolated and grew them there. Also, embryonic stem cells have never caused cancer. It is theorized that they COULD cause cancer if they are used in therapies before they are fully understood.
 

jillian

Princess
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
85,586
Reaction score
17,907
Points
2,220
Location
The Other Side of Paradise
Dr Grump said:
My money is on him producing an op-ed piece from a religious site...:teeth:

Ya think? :banana:
 

rtwngAvngr

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
15,755
Reaction score
512
Points
48
Dr Grump said:
My money is on him producing an op-ed piece from a religious site...:teeth:

From where do you derive your values grump? The doctrine of totalitarian pragmatism? AKA, the dehumanization of others to the extent that you get the majority to go along with it?
 

jillian

Princess
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
85,586
Reaction score
17,907
Points
2,220
Location
The Other Side of Paradise
rtwngAvngr said:
From where do you derive your values grump? The doctrine of totalitarian pragmatism? AKA, the dehumanization of others to the extent that you get the majority to go along with it?

Where did that come from? He was clearly talking about the fact that Hobbit put forth an untrue premise and would only have agenda-based backing for it, if at all, as opposed to scienfic support for a question of science.

You do understand the concept, don't you? :slap:
 

dilloduck

Diamond Member
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
53,240
Reaction score
5,796
Points
1,850
Location
Austin, TX
rtwngAvngr said:
From where do you derive your values grump? The doctrine of totalitarian pragmatism? AKA, the dehumanization of others to the extent that you get the majority to go along with it?

It's just the usual Chrsitian bashing from those who claim to respect all religions and get miffed if you insinuate a jew might be mistaken. Don't expect anything but hypocrisy.
 

jillian

Princess
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
85,586
Reaction score
17,907
Points
2,220
Location
The Other Side of Paradise
dilloduck said:
It's just the usual Chrsitian bashing from those who claim to respect all religions and get miffed if you insinuate a jew might be mistaken. Don't expect anything but hypocrisy.

:happy2:

Nah...it's just the usual whining every time someone objects to the extremist Christians trying to make their religion everyone else's law.

I know you can do better. :salute:
 

dilloduck

Diamond Member
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
53,240
Reaction score
5,796
Points
1,850
Location
Austin, TX
jillian said:
:happy2:

Nah...it's just the usual whining every time someone objects to the extremist Christians trying to make their religion everyone else's law.

I know you can do better. :salute:

Object away but dont tell me it's not because of you're hatred for the religious right.
 

jillian

Princess
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
85,586
Reaction score
17,907
Points
2,220
Location
The Other Side of Paradise
dilloduck said:
Object away but dont tell me it's not because of you're hatred for the religious right.

Hatred? No. If they practiced their religion as they see fit and don't try to make their will into *my* law, I have no problem with anyone's belief.

Thanks, though. :beer:
 

rtwngAvngr

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
15,755
Reaction score
512
Points
48
According to jillian and grump, respect for human life is Christian extremism. How sick is that?
 

dilloduck

Diamond Member
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
53,240
Reaction score
5,796
Points
1,850
Location
Austin, TX
jillian said:
Hatred? No. If they practiced their religion as they see fit and don't try to make their will into *my* law, I have no problem with anyone's belief.

Thanks, though. :beer:

Everyone in America has a right to participate in Government. Even Christians
 

Hobbit

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Messages
5,099
Reaction score
423
Points
48
Location
Near Atlanta, GA

T-Bor

Active Member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
752
Reaction score
101
Points
28
Bush is just a freaking dope. Nancy Reagan has even changed her views on stem cell research in support of it after watching her husband suffer. She realized that curing this disease is much more important than someones religous beliefs over a fertilized egg. If he had parkinsans and was dying, painfully, and someone waived a cure in his face do you think he would take it ? Of course the rat bastard would. He is incapable of thinking about anyone but himself on issues like this. He cannot relate to people that are dying of these diseases. I would love to see a reporter ask him that question and put his ass right on the spot. Mr.Bush would you take a stem cell cure if your wife was dying of parkinsans ? Would you take the cure and give it to your wife ? Now watch him squirm.

Ive talked to several doctors who think are just beside themselves about people who are against this issue. This is what happens when religous nutbags take over the white house.
 

T-Bor

Active Member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
752
Reaction score
101
Points
28
A freaking egg isnt human life you dolt !!! It is extremism.


rtwngAvngr said:
According to jillian and grump, respect for human life is Christian extremism. How sick is that?
 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$180.00
Goal
$350.00

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top