State Takes Legal Action to Seize $135K From Bakers Who Refused to Make Cake for Lesbian Couple

[easyt65]

People can be disgusted at whatever they want. I find some very fat people to be disgusting. Should I be able to refuse to serve fat people? You have to realize the trouble this would cause. The state wants a smooth operation of business and flow of people doing business. THAT is in the best interest of everyone and the state's own bottom line.

Comparing religious conviction to a repulsion to fat people is, not to offend, rather absurd. For one, there is no Constitutional right that protects your right to abhor fat people, but there is one that ensures people of the right to religious freedom and their right to practice that religion.

 

[TNHarley]

If we allow people to behave in this manner when conducting business, where does it end? Nope, we still have laws regarding business practice, and the states are perfectly within their rights to make reasonable laws and regulations regarding business practice. We are all considered equal and the same in the eyes of the law, regardless of your personal religious beliefs. That's how it should be.

You really think this problem would be rampant? You think if we didn't have those anti dis laws for blacks, they would still have their own fountain and sit in the back of the bus? No way.

 

[ChrisL]

If we allow people to behave in this manner when conducting business, where does it end? Nope, we still have laws regarding business practice, and the states are perfectly within their rights to make reasonable laws and regulations regarding business practice. We are all considered equal and the same in the eyes of the law, regardless of your personal religious beliefs. That's how it should be.

You really think this problem would be rampant? You think if we didn't have those anti dis laws for blacks, they would still have their own fountain and sit in the back of the bus? No way.

Apparently. These laws are needed for a reason. Now, it makes no sense to allow it. It doesn't matter how personally disgusted you are. Seeing two gays making out doesn't "do it" for me either but that does not mean I can refuse to serve them when I open a business that serves the "public." They are taxpaying American citizens and therefore, they are a part of the public which you are agreeing to serve when you open your business.

The government does not recognize discrimination as a "religious practice or custom." It doesn't matter if you are a guy, a girl, a homosexual, a bisexual, a divorced person, a Muslim person, a Jewish person, a black person, a purple person.

 

[Faun]

Gays are not forcing anyone to do anything. If you feel you cannot serve gays (I use the term "you" generally, not YOU in particular ), and cannot follow your state's anti-discrimination SECULAR laws which are based on equality in business dealings, then you do not have to go into business.

People can feel disgusted or any other way they happen to feel, but that does not give them any right to single out any particular group of tax-paying American citizens who contribute to our economy. It is bad and STUPID business for any state to adopt. That is why it is illegal in our country. We are not Iran and our laws do not support any particular theology, thankfully.

Instead of feeling "slighted" it is important to look at the bigger picture and why it is important to keep religious beliefs out of government and business. You are still free to practice any religion of your choosing and perform your religious customs/ceremonies/whatever.

Good morning BTW
Yes, that is EXACTLY what gays are doing. They are FORCING people to go against their will.
Equality in business dealings? How is it equal when you don't have free will?
If I had a car for sale and one of my enemies came to look at it, I wouldn't sell it to him. Should that be illegal? It is the SAME premise.
No, we are not Iran. Thank gawd
It isn't necessarily all about religion. Like I said, some people just find it disgusting and don't want to support something they don't like. Again, it is called free will and personal liberty.

Thanks. GM to you!

It is not the same at all. You are not singling out an entire group of tax-paying American citizen, rather your example is due to a personal issue. Now, if you caught a person shoplifting from your store or a person came into your business and behaved in an unruly manner, that is your prerogative to "ban" such a person from your place of business, but you cannot say, "I will not serve THESE particular Americans because it goes against my religious beliefs." This is just not going to fly. For one thing, discrimination is not a recognized religious custom or practice.

People can be disgusted at whatever they want. I find some very fat people to be disgusting. Should I be able to refuse to serve fat people? You have to realize the trouble this would cause. The state wants a smooth operation of business and flow of people doing business. THAT is in the best interest of everyone and the state's own bottom line.

YES, it is. You don't think people not liking gays is personal? lol
You SHOULD be able to. No one should be forced to do ANYTHING as long as it doesn't trample on someone elses right. No one has a right to get a cake at a bakery. They have a RIGHT to ask for one. And frankly, just because our bloated, oversized govt says you have a right, you don't. Look at trhe definitions of liberty, free will etc. If you leave out emotion, you will get what im saying.

It has been determined that refusing service to certain groups of Americans based upon personal discriminatory beliefs is harmful, not only to that individual but also to the economy of the state. Otherwise, such laws wouldn't exist. Sorry, but you can't turn back the hands of time. It has been determined that personal religious beliefs do not trump the rights of others. You are still able to discriminate against whomever you wish in your personal life. You are still able to choose any religious belief to follow and practice it openly and without fear of government reprisal. It's another story when you wish to conduct a business in this manner because it effects others believe it or not.

It isn't only about religion. I have a buddy that is agnostic like me and he doesn't support gays. If he owned a bakery, he would kick them out. How would it effect the economy? The people wouldn't go somewhere else? They would just give up on a cake because of some asshole?

And if such discrimination was allowed and all bakers in a community felt that way, where does a gay couple get a cake for their wedding? And if such discrimination was allowed, what happens when other groups are shunned? Where do Jews go if all businesses suddenly decide they don't want their business? Or blacks? Or Muslims? PA laws serve a very useful function.

 

[Iceweasel]

You wouldn't know it if your fat ass tripped over it.

You make it really easy when you admit you'd lie and break the law. That shows a lack of ethics and integrity.

YOUR ethics and integrity! You're an asshole on the internet, not God.

How does you stating you would lie and continue to break the law mean that I have a lack of ethics and integrity? Do you not understand the meanings of words?

You are too stupid to understand it even after all this time. It's been said many times in many many ways that not all laws are moral or right. Laws outlawing homosexual acts, Jim Crow, segregation, on and on. To be completely oblivious to it while claiming laws equate to morality because they favor you at the moment is devoid of thought.

You're damn right I'll lie if some *** pulls some gaystapo crap on me. They'll need to prove I had the time for their project. Good luck with that.

So Public Accommodation laws, that have been in effect since the 60s, are like Nazis? The hyperbole police should give you a ticket.

That's isn't what I said. What I said was you're too ******* stupid to follow conversations.

 

[TNHarley]

If we allow people to behave in this manner when conducting business, where does it end? Nope, we still have laws regarding business practice, and the states are perfectly within their rights to make reasonable laws and regulations regarding business practice. We are all considered equal and the same in the eyes of the law, regardless of your personal religious beliefs. That's how it should be.

You really think this problem would be rampant? You think if we didn't have those anti dis laws for blacks, they would still have their own fountain and sit in the back of the bus? No way.

Apparently. These laws are needed for a reason. Now, it makes no sense to allow it. It doesn't matter how personally disgusted you are. Seeing two gays making out doesn't "do it" for me either but that does not mean I can refuse to serve them when I open a business that serves the "public." They are taxpaying American citizens and therefore, they are a part of the public which you are agreeing to serve when you open your business.

The government does not recognize discrimination as a "religious practice or custom." It doesn't matter if you are a guy, a girl, a homosexual, a bisexual, a divorced person, a Muslim person, a Jewish person, a black person, a purple person.

I get that darling. Im just arguing the morality and American values of this fascist law.
Im mot arguing that this is a law, I am saying it shouldn't be a law.

 

[TNHarley]

Good morning BTW
Yes, that is EXACTLY what gays are doing. They are FORCING people to go against their will.
Equality in business dealings? How is it equal when you don't have free will?
If I had a car for sale and one of my enemies came to look at it, I wouldn't sell it to him. Should that be illegal? It is the SAME premise.
No, we are not Iran. Thank gawd
It isn't necessarily all about religion. Like I said, some people just find it disgusting and don't want to support something they don't like. Again, it is called free will and personal liberty.

Thanks. GM to you!

It is not the same at all. You are not singling out an entire group of tax-paying American citizen, rather your example is due to a personal issue. Now, if you caught a person shoplifting from your store or a person came into your business and behaved in an unruly manner, that is your prerogative to "ban" such a person from your place of business, but you cannot say, "I will not serve THESE particular Americans because it goes against my religious beliefs." This is just not going to fly. For one thing, discrimination is not a recognized religious custom or practice.

People can be disgusted at whatever they want. I find some very fat people to be disgusting. Should I be able to refuse to serve fat people? You have to realize the trouble this would cause. The state wants a smooth operation of business and flow of people doing business. THAT is in the best interest of everyone and the state's own bottom line.

YES, it is. You don't think people not liking gays is personal? lol
You SHOULD be able to. No one should be forced to do ANYTHING as long as it doesn't trample on someone elses right. No one has a right to get a cake at a bakery. They have a RIGHT to ask for one. And frankly, just because our bloated, oversized govt says you have a right, you don't. Look at trhe definitions of liberty, free will etc. If you leave out emotion, you will get what im saying.

It has been determined that refusing service to certain groups of Americans based upon personal discriminatory beliefs is harmful, not only to that individual but also to the economy of the state. Otherwise, such laws wouldn't exist. Sorry, but you can't turn back the hands of time. It has been determined that personal religious beliefs do not trump the rights of others. You are still able to discriminate against whomever you wish in your personal life. You are still able to choose any religious belief to follow and practice it openly and without fear of government reprisal. It's another story when you wish to conduct a business in this manner because it effects others believe it or not.

It isn't only about religion. I have a buddy that is agnostic like me and he doesn't support gays. If he owned a bakery, he would kick them out. How would it effect the economy? The people wouldn't go somewhere else? They would just give up on a cake because of some asshole?

And if such discrimination was allowed and all bakers in a community felt that way, where does a gay couple get a cake for their wedding? And if such discrimination was allowed, what happens when other groups are shunned? Where do Jews go if all businesses suddenly decide they don't want their business? Or blacks? Or Muslims? PA laws serve a very useful function.

You think that would really happen? lol
Its ok to introduce hypotheticals but at least make them believable

 

[PaintMyHouse]

If people would treat others fairly, PA laws would be unnecessary. They exist only because of people like the homophobes on this thread.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

If we allow people to behave in this manner when conducting business, where does it end? Nope, we still have laws regarding business practice, and the states are perfectly within their rights to make reasonable laws and regulations regarding business practice. We are all considered equal and the same in the eyes of the law, regardless of your personal religious beliefs. That's how it should be.

You really think this problem would be rampant? You think if we didn't have those anti dis laws for blacks, they would still have their own fountain and sit in the back of the bus? No way.

Apparently. These laws are needed for a reason. Now, it makes no sense to allow it. It doesn't matter how personally disgusted you are. Seeing two gays making out doesn't "do it" for me either but that does not mean I can refuse to serve them when I open a business that serves the "public." They are taxpaying American citizens and therefore, they are a part of the public which you are agreeing to serve when you open your business.

The government does not recognize discrimination as a "religious practice or custom." It doesn't matter if you are a guy, a girl, a homosexual, a bisexual, a divorced person, a Muslim person, a Jewish person, a black person, a purple person.

I get that darling. Im just arguing the morality and American values of this fascist law.
Im mot arguing that this is a law, I am saying it shouldn't be a law.

You can argue it all the live long day, but to what end? PA laws aren't going away because people like you demonstrate why they are necessary...

 

[TNHarley]

Here is a good debate
The constitutionality(rather the lack thereof) of anti-discrimination laws and how they trample on American values such as personal liberty. No emotion needs to be involved, though. Emotion doesn't run a country

 

[ChrisL]

If we allow people to behave in this manner when conducting business, where does it end? Nope, we still have laws regarding business practice, and the states are perfectly within their rights to make reasonable laws and regulations regarding business practice. We are all considered equal and the same in the eyes of the law, regardless of your personal religious beliefs. That's how it should be.

You really think this problem would be rampant? You think if we didn't have those anti dis laws for blacks, they would still have their own fountain and sit in the back of the bus? No way.

Apparently. These laws are needed for a reason. Now, it makes no sense to allow it. It doesn't matter how personally disgusted you are. Seeing two gays making out doesn't "do it" for me either but that does not mean I can refuse to serve them when I open a business that serves the "public." They are taxpaying American citizens and therefore, they are a part of the public which you are agreeing to serve when you open your business.

The government does not recognize discrimination as a "religious practice or custom." It doesn't matter if you are a guy, a girl, a homosexual, a bisexual, a divorced person, a Muslim person, a Jewish person, a black person, a purple person.

I get that darling. Im just arguing the morality and American values of this fascist law.
Im mot arguing that this is a law, I am saying it shouldn't be a law.

Well, I consider the people who want to impose their religious beliefs on others to be the true "fascists" in this instance. I do think it should be a law. I certainly do not want our country to regress back to the days of "we don't serve your kind here." "You'll have to go to the Gay Mart the next town other, homo."

 

[TNHarley]

If people would treat others fairly, PA laws would be unnecessary. They exist only because of people like the homophobes on this thread.

Yes, humans are not perfect. GREAT observation.

 

[TNHarley]

If we allow people to behave in this manner when conducting business, where does it end? Nope, we still have laws regarding business practice, and the states are perfectly within their rights to make reasonable laws and regulations regarding business practice. We are all considered equal and the same in the eyes of the law, regardless of your personal religious beliefs. That's how it should be.

You really think this problem would be rampant? You think if we didn't have those anti dis laws for blacks, they would still have their own fountain and sit in the back of the bus? No way.

Apparently. These laws are needed for a reason. Now, it makes no sense to allow it. It doesn't matter how personally disgusted you are. Seeing two gays making out doesn't "do it" for me either but that does not mean I can refuse to serve them when I open a business that serves the "public." They are taxpaying American citizens and therefore, they are a part of the public which you are agreeing to serve when you open your business.

The government does not recognize discrimination as a "religious practice or custom." It doesn't matter if you are a guy, a girl, a homosexual, a bisexual, a divorced person, a Muslim person, a Jewish person, a black person, a purple person.

I get that darling. Im just arguing the morality and American values of this fascist law.
Im mot arguing that this is a law, I am saying it shouldn't be a law.

Well, I consider the people who want to impose their religious beliefs on others to be the true "fascists" in this instance. I do think it should be a law. I certainly do not want our country to regress back to the days of "we don't serve your kind here." "You'll have to go to the Gay Mart the next town other, homo."

LMAO
That has nothing to do with fascism though lol

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Thanks. GM to you!

It is not the same at all. You are not singling out an entire group of tax-paying American citizen, rather your example is due to a personal issue. Now, if you caught a person shoplifting from your store or a person came into your business and behaved in an unruly manner, that is your prerogative to "ban" such a person from your place of business, but you cannot say, "I will not serve THESE particular Americans because it goes against my religious beliefs." This is just not going to fly. For one thing, discrimination is not a recognized religious custom or practice.

People can be disgusted at whatever they want. I find some very fat people to be disgusting. Should I be able to refuse to serve fat people? You have to realize the trouble this would cause. The state wants a smooth operation of business and flow of people doing business. THAT is in the best interest of everyone and the state's own bottom line.

YES, it is. You don't think people not liking gays is personal? lol
You SHOULD be able to. No one should be forced to do ANYTHING as long as it doesn't trample on someone elses right. No one has a right to get a cake at a bakery. They have a RIGHT to ask for one. And frankly, just because our bloated, oversized govt says you have a right, you don't. Look at trhe definitions of liberty, free will etc. If you leave out emotion, you will get what im saying.

It has been determined that refusing service to certain groups of Americans based upon personal discriminatory beliefs is harmful, not only to that individual but also to the economy of the state. Otherwise, such laws wouldn't exist. Sorry, but you can't turn back the hands of time. It has been determined that personal religious beliefs do not trump the rights of others. You are still able to discriminate against whomever you wish in your personal life. You are still able to choose any religious belief to follow and practice it openly and without fear of government reprisal. It's another story when you wish to conduct a business in this manner because it effects others believe it or not.

It isn't only about religion. I have a buddy that is agnostic like me and he doesn't support gays. If he owned a bakery, he would kick them out. How would it effect the economy? The people wouldn't go somewhere else? They would just give up on a cake because of some asshole?

And if such discrimination was allowed and all bakers in a community felt that way, where does a gay couple get a cake for their wedding? And if such discrimination was allowed, what happens when other groups are shunned? Where do Jews go if all businesses suddenly decide they don't want their business? Or blacks? Or Muslims? PA laws serve a very useful function.

You think that would really happen? lol
Its ok to introduce hypotheticals but at least make them believable

That's not theoretical, that's American history.

 

[TNHarley]

If we allow people to behave in this manner when conducting business, where does it end? Nope, we still have laws regarding business practice, and the states are perfectly within their rights to make reasonable laws and regulations regarding business practice. We are all considered equal and the same in the eyes of the law, regardless of your personal religious beliefs. That's how it should be.

You really think this problem would be rampant? You think if we didn't have those anti dis laws for blacks, they would still have their own fountain and sit in the back of the bus? No way.

Apparently. These laws are needed for a reason. Now, it makes no sense to allow it. It doesn't matter how personally disgusted you are. Seeing two gays making out doesn't "do it" for me either but that does not mean I can refuse to serve them when I open a business that serves the "public." They are taxpaying American citizens and therefore, they are a part of the public which you are agreeing to serve when you open your business.

The government does not recognize discrimination as a "religious practice or custom." It doesn't matter if you are a guy, a girl, a homosexual, a bisexual, a divorced person, a Muslim person, a Jewish person, a black person, a purple person.

I get that darling. Im just arguing the morality and American values of this fascist law.
Im mot arguing that this is a law, I am saying it shouldn't be a law.

You can argue it all the live long day, but to what end? PA laws aren't going away because people like you demonstrate why they are necessary...

People like me? please elaborate

 

[bodecea]

Gay people are just people. There is nothing to be frightened of. Gay is not contagious. You aren't going to DIE by serving a gay person. In fact, I'm willing to bet that if you sold a gay couple a wedding cake, nothing at all would happen to you. STOP living your lives in such fear and anguish over something that is HARMLESS to you.

It's not sbout FEAR. It's about DISGUST. That's what you people don't understand.

Let us assume for a moment that you are a 450 pound obese old man who smells because he cannot wash himself properly. That disgusts me. Do I have the right to not serve you in my business because of that disgust?

 

[TNHarley]

YES, it is. You don't think people not liking gays is personal? lol
You SHOULD be able to. No one should be forced to do ANYTHING as long as it doesn't trample on someone elses right. No one has a right to get a cake at a bakery. They have a RIGHT to ask for one. And frankly, just because our bloated, oversized govt says you have a right, you don't. Look at trhe definitions of liberty, free will etc. If you leave out emotion, you will get what im saying.

It has been determined that refusing service to certain groups of Americans based upon personal discriminatory beliefs is harmful, not only to that individual but also to the economy of the state. Otherwise, such laws wouldn't exist. Sorry, but you can't turn back the hands of time. It has been determined that personal religious beliefs do not trump the rights of others. You are still able to discriminate against whomever you wish in your personal life. You are still able to choose any religious belief to follow and practice it openly and without fear of government reprisal. It's another story when you wish to conduct a business in this manner because it effects others believe it or not.

It isn't only about religion. I have a buddy that is agnostic like me and he doesn't support gays. If he owned a bakery, he would kick them out. How would it effect the economy? The people wouldn't go somewhere else? They would just give up on a cake because of some asshole?

And if such discrimination was allowed and all bakers in a community felt that way, where does a gay couple get a cake for their wedding? And if such discrimination was allowed, what happens when other groups are shunned? Where do Jews go if all businesses suddenly decide they don't want their business? Or blacks? Or Muslims? PA laws serve a very useful function.

You think that would really happen? lol
Its ok to introduce hypotheticals but at least make them believable

That's not theoretical, that's American history.

yes. You are right. Society really hasn't progressed at all (while rolling eyes)

 

[PaintMyHouse]

If people would treat others fairly, PA laws would be unnecessary. They exist only because of people like the homophobes on this thread.

Yes, humans are not perfect. GREAT observation.

They are far less than perfect, they are not even fair-minded, so we pass laws to help make them so. Works like a charm, for the most part.

 

[TNHarley]

Gay people are just people. There is nothing to be frightened of. Gay is not contagious. You aren't going to DIE by serving a gay person. In fact, I'm willing to bet that if you sold a gay couple a wedding cake, nothing at all would happen to you. STOP living your lives in such fear and anguish over something that is HARMLESS to you.

It's not sbout FEAR. It's about DISGUST. That's what you people don't understand.

Let us assume for a moment that you are a 450 pound obese old man who smells because he cannot wash himself properly. That disgusts me. Do I have the right to not serve you in my business because of that disgust?

That argument is so original!

 

[PaintMyHouse]

It has been determined that refusing service to certain groups of Americans based upon personal discriminatory beliefs is harmful, not only to that individual but also to the economy of the state. Otherwise, such laws wouldn't exist. Sorry, but you can't turn back the hands of time. It has been determined that personal religious beliefs do not trump the rights of others. You are still able to discriminate against whomever you wish in your personal life. You are still able to choose any religious belief to follow and practice it openly and without fear of government reprisal. It's another story when you wish to conduct a business in this manner because it effects others believe it or not.

It isn't only about religion. I have a buddy that is agnostic like me and he doesn't support gays. If he owned a bakery, he would kick them out. How would it effect the economy? The people wouldn't go somewhere else? They would just give up on a cake because of some asshole?

And if such discrimination was allowed and all bakers in a community felt that way, where does a gay couple get a cake for their wedding? And if such discrimination was allowed, what happens when other groups are shunned? Where do Jews go if all businesses suddenly decide they don't want their business? Or blacks? Or Muslims? PA laws serve a very useful function.

You think that would really happen? lol
Its ok to introduce hypotheticals but at least make them believable

That's not theoretical, that's American history.

yes. You are right. Society really hasn't progressed at all (while rolling eyes)

It's progressed because we passed laws that forced it to...