Starting the circle fresh.

[Baruch Menachem]

The last 9/11 goof thread is now 25 pages and has sunk to yells of "Retard" back and forth.

Time for a new thread, I think.

Anyway, the 16 impossible things for the troofers to believe before breakfast.

• Arab Highjackers for various and sundry very supid reasons took controll of the planes and flew them into commercial and military structures.
• A fourth plane the highjackers took over faced a revolt from the passengers, and for some reason it crashed. Either beause their was a fight that caused the plane to go into a spin, or the hijackers delibertly crashed it, we can't know for sure as the government has not released the last minutes of tape from the voice recorders.
• Building 1,2 & 7 of the WTC fell beause of fires which reached temperatures high enough to make the steel fail. The next several points are about the WTC failures
• Heat causes steel to expand, and weaken. The WTC structures were built with steel collumns and steel trusses. There was no concrete in the structure. The central core was lined by gypsum board
• Temperatures in the fire got very hot. It wasn't just kerosene burning there. There was also carpet, plastics, electronic equipment, wire insulation, wood, all kinds of things that love fire. Temperatures in the fires got hot way over the temperture of Kerosene. A lot of which went down the elevator shats and burned on the first floor.
• Thermal expansion and thermal failure cause the connections and the steel to fail after long term exposure to heat.
• There were 15 floors of building at least on top of the fire zone. When the steel failed, the 15 floors smaked down on the floor beneath the failure and caused seperation and failure on each successive floor as each floor failed in turn.
• The jets of air air seen pouring out of windows as the building fell down were not from explosions, but from the fact that you had an acre of air 16 feet thick being suddenly compressed by 15 stories of building. Window are not made to take that kind of pressure, so they blew out
• There was no controlled demolition. That would have required large armies of construction engineers to wander though the biulding drilling holes, inserting dynamite, running det cord, for months before the event.
• WTC 7 burned for hours and had a larch scoop taken out of its south side. It too suffered temperature failure. Much of the fire was fed by deisel fuel.
• The thing that hit the pentagon was an airplane. There were airplane parts scattered arond it. It didn't make an airplane shaped hole because one wing was behind it as it obliqly, and the other wing came off. The wings knocked off light poles as it went by.
• The hole in the C ring was made by the front landing gear.
• Most of the airplane that hit the ground at 600mph went into the hole.
• Indian lake is only 1.5 miles windward of the crash site, not 4 in the opposite direction.
• from Wiki:

  8:56: The transponder on Flight 77 is turned off and even primary radar contact with the aircraft is lost. During radar blackout Flight 77 turns east, unnoticed by flight controllers. When primary radar information is restored at 9:05, controllers look futilely for Flight 77 west of its previous position.[2] Flight 77 travels undetected for 36 minutes on a course heading due east toward Washington, D.C.

  Which means that Flight 77 is just a blip on the radar screen and the ATC folks don't know where to look for it. Doesn't mean it wasn't on the screen. It just wasn't labeled and the ATC folks didn't know what was there.

That's enough argue points for now.
Let the silly begin!

 

[CurveLight]

Looks like a laundry list of sufficient evidence to draft legislation for legalized euthanasia, at any age. When you want to discuss this issue sincerely you will let us know.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

yeah and when you want to stop telling lies as well we'll also discuss.we have proven in spades to you that your full of bullshit that the fires caused the towers to fall down and no explosives were used and that your full of shit that there is evidence an airliner hit the pentagon for instance.you want to stop telling lies and reports facts, evidence and witness testimonys then we'll talk.Again you conviently ignore what experts of hundreds of architects and engineers say as well as demoltion experts,firemen, first responders,and witnesses.If your just going to continue cheering on the governments version and the corporate controlled media and ignore them,go ahead,continue making yourself look like an idiot.
Eots already took you to school on this and made you eat crow.

You know what really baffles me is the fact that nobody can explain why the third trade center building just fell for no reason. Lastly, nobody has recovered the black boxes from the airplanes. In the HISTORY of Black Boxes in the airplanes we have never had the problem of at least locating the site of these boxes. Let alone we went through the rubble of the 9/11 crisis with a fine tooth comb, So fine that they found bone fragments the size of finger nail clippings to identify a victim. Yet, we couldn't find these... IRONICALLY "Orange" black boxes. Things are REALLY FISHY!

P.S. This perspective was one brought to attention by the show "Conspiracy Theory hosted by Jesse Ventura". I did not come up with any of that at all. Just happen to agree with Ventura's standpoint.

Steel becomes ductile when exposed to high temperatures for long periods. WTC7 was on fire from the jet fuel and matter ejected from the other two towers from about 10:00 till 5:00 when it fell. The whole building was involved and there were lots of plastics that burned at high temperatures through the whole day. After several hours of heat, the steel just weakened enough that the building could no longer support its own weight.

The way steel was manufactured for a long time was it was formed in large retorts, poured into slabs, and the slabs were then run through rolling mills to be formed into the shapes that industry wanted. Rolling mills heated the steel to high temperatures and then worked it.

What happened to the WTC structures is that the fires just got hot enough for the steel to be ductile enough that it couldn't stand by itself anymore.

The fact that steel is ductile even at room temperature is one its advantages in construction. Tall buildings sway in the wind, and the flexibility of steel is one of its selling points in this kind of environment.

STFU...


This was the first known instance of fire causing the total collapse of a tall building,


As for fuel fires, the team found that they could not have been sustained long enough, could not have generated sufficient heat to fail a critical column, and/or would have produced “large amounts of visible smoke” from Floors 5 and 6, which was not observed.

fuel oil fires played a role in the collapse of WTC 7

NIST WTC 7 Investigation Finds Building Fires Caused Collapse, 08/21/08


although the key elements of the core steel were demographically labeled. A careful reading of the NIST report shows that they have no evidence that the temperatures they predict as necessary for failure

OpEdNews - Page 2 of Article: Former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division Calls for Independent Review of World Trade Center Investigation


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65Qg_-89Zr8]YouTube - Bad Ass Skyscraper Fires and Destruction!! Awesome!![/ame]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/conspiracy-theories/103458-high-school-physics-solve-9-11-a-2.html

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Am I lying when I tell you that steel looses 90% of its strength when heated over 1000* for an hour?

Am I lying when I tell you that steel expands as it heats?

Please post where I said temperatures under 4000 were enough to melt steel. I showed you pictures of what happens when steel is heated high enough so that it is easy to deform. This does not require really high temperatures or long exposure. Sherman's men were able to get steel to deform and bend and twist at temperatures reached by large wood fires. You emotional temperature is causing you to deform and bend and twist the language.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Well, when you say it like that, it sounds simple...

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Looks like a laundry list of sufficient evidence to draft legislation for legalized euthanasia, at any age. When you want to discuss this issue sincerely you will let us know.

Does it hurt to be as stupid as you are?

It seems like it would have to.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Am I lying when I tell you that steel looses 90% of its strength when heated over 1000* for an hour?

Am I lying when I tell you that steel expands as it heats?

Please post where I said temperatures under 4000 were enough to melt steel. I showed you pictures of what happens when steel is heated high enough so that it is easy to deform. This does not require really high temperatures or long exposure. Sherman's men were able to get steel to deform and bend and twist at temperatures reached by large wood fires. You emotional temperature is causing you to deform and bend and twist the language.

again you dodge facts on what witnesses saw and heard and what experts say with trivial crap.yes your lying,steel only loses half its strength after an hour not 90%. and your avoiding how Eots took you to school as well and countered your post.oh and dont worry,I'll find where you said.it was on another thread a long time ago.Not only can you not get around witness testimonys, you cant get around the facts that there was black smoke seen rising from the base of the towers BEFORE the towers collapsed which backs up witness testimoys that they heard explosions going off in the basement BEFORE the plane struck the towers. sounds of inconsistant explosives going off before and the collapse were heard by many witnesses,many of them very credible.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Looks like a laundry list of sufficient evidence to draft legislation for legalized euthanasia, at any age. When you want to discuss this issue sincerely you will let us know.

Does it hurt to be as stupid as you are?

It seems like it would have to.

It kind of does, but he is not the one feeling the pain

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Looks like a laundry list of sufficient evidence to draft legislation for legalized euthanasia, at any age. When you want to discuss this issue sincerely you will let us know.

Does it hurt to be as stupid as you are?

It seems like it would have to.

thats something you should ask the thread starter since he has never been able to debunk this video or anybody else here for that matter.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw[/ame]

 

[☭proletarian☭]

This was the first known instance of fire causing the total collapse of a tall building,

How many of those other buildings were first hit with a 757 and were constructed in the same manner?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

This was the first known instance of fire causing the total collapse of a tall building,

How many of those other buildings were first hit with a 757 and were constructed in the same manner?

if you got your head out of your ass and did research and stopped listening to the corporate controlled media, you would know they designed that in mind with an airliner slamming into it at 600 mph saying that it could have taken a hit from MULTIPLE airliners.
loyal Bush dupe.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EREolpI1G4w[/ame] I know im wasting my time posting that video and you'll ignore it though and not watch it,you Bush dupes always do that.

 

[Fizz]

they cant disprove the official story because it is what actually happened. all they can do is come up with silly scenarios that make no sense and ask you to disprove them.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Oh and here is something else you cant debunk either that explosives brought the towers down.candy corn trollboy has tried many times but with no success and stop with the laughable lies that air pressure ejected the steel beams and caused the squibs.that holds no water.

NIST has failed to disprove the controlled demolition hypothesis and clings to a gravity-assisted collapse hypothesis. This is a disservice to Americans and the world--as GROWING numbers of people doubt the 9/11 official myths.

The Twin Towers' destruction exhibited all the characteristics of destruction by explosions:

1. Extremely rapid onset of “collapse”

2. Sounds of explosions at plane impact zone — a full second prior to collapse (heard by 118 first responders as well as by media reporters)

3. Observations of flashes (seen by numerous professionals)

4. Squibs, or “mistimed” explosions, 40 floors below the “collapsing” building seen in all the videos

5. Mid-air pulverization of all the 90,000 tons of concrete and steel decking, filing cabinets & 1000 people – mostly to dust

6. Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic dust clouds

7. Vertical progression of full building perimeter demolition waves

8. Symmetrical collapse – through the path of greatest resistance – at nearly free-fall speed — the columns gave no resistance

9. 1,400 foot diameter field of equally distributed debris – outside of building footprint

10. Blast waves blew out windows in buildings 400 feet away

11. Lateral ejection of thousands of individual 20 - 50 ton steel beams up to 500 feet

12. Total destruction of the building down to individual structural steel elements – obliterating the steel core structure.

13. Tons of molten Metal found by FDNY under all 3 high-rises (no other possible source other than an incendiary cutting charge such as Thermate)

14. Chemical signature of Thermate (high tech incendiary) found in slag, solidified molten metal, and dust samples by Physics professor Steven Jones, PhD.

15. FEMA finds rapid oxidation and intergranular melting on structural steel samples

16. More than 1000 Bodies are unaccounted for — 700 tiny bone fragments found on top of nearby buildings

And exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire, i.e.

1. Slow onset with large visible deformations

2. Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, intact, from the point of plane impact, to the side most damaged by the fires)

3. Evidence of fire temperatures capable of softening steel

4. High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never “collapsed”

Photo below, helicopter view of North Tower looking over Building 7: Massive interlaced vertical columns of the North Tower are seen falling outward--their ends severed and glowing white--while streaming smoke from the ends. Gravity? Thermate? NIST admits to NOT TESTING any WTC debris for explosives/demolition residue. This amounts to criminal negligence--and underlies all the debate in this thread. Had NIST done its proper job--recognizing that there were over 500 eyewitness reports, many of which identified "explosions" which were NOT COINCIDENT with the planes crashing or the buildings collapsing. News footage reveals explosions. It took a Freedom of Information Act petition to get to these eyewitness testimonies about explosions--testimonies that were OMITTED from the 9/11 Commission Report.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

if you got your head out of your ass and did research and stopped listening to the corporate controlled media, you would know they designed that in mind with an airliner slamming into it at 600 mph saying that it could have taken a hit from MULTIPLE airliners.
loyal Bush dupe.
YouTube - frank demartini I know im wasting my time posting that video and you'll ignore it though and not watch it,you Bush dupes always do that.

Yeah, and the Titanic was the greatest cruiseliner ever built, an amazing ship that would earn its name.




Then it actually hit a piece of icefor the first time and we found out it was a bit overhyped.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Am I lying when I tell you that steel looses 90% of its strength when heated over 1000* for an hour?

Am I lying when I tell you that steel expands as it heats?

Please post where I said temperatures under 4000 were enough to melt steel. I showed you pictures of what happens when steel is heated high enough so that it is easy to deform. This does not require really high temperatures or long exposure. Sherman's men were able to get steel to deform and bend and twist at temperatures reached by large wood fires. You emotional temperature is causing you to deform and bend and twist the language.

again you dodge facts on what witnesses saw and heard and what experts say with trivial crap.yes your lying,steel only loses half its strength after an hour not 90%. and your avoiding how Eots took you to school as well and countered your post.oh and dont worry,I'll find where you said.it was on another thread a long time ago.Not only can you not get around witness testimonys, you cant get around the facts that there was black smoke seen rising from the base of the towers BEFORE the towers collapsed which backs up witness testimoys that they heard explosions going off in the basement BEFORE the plane struck the towers. sounds of inconsistant explosives going off before and the collapse were heard by many witnesses,many of them very credible.

When you compress a large volume of air very quickly, it makes a loud noise. Try this experiment. Hold your hands about a computer monitor's width apart. Then suddenly bring them together with great force. The result is a loud noise. The larger the volume of air compressed and the harder the compression, the louder the noise.

An explosion also causes shock and compression to the surrounding air. Resulting in a loud noise.

Just because there is a loud noise, does not mean there was an explosion.

I am not a metallurgist, nor do I play one on TV. From my reading, your "facts" are inverted.

all your
theories belong to us!

On the Central issue of Trooferism in general:

The mistaken belief that a handful of unexplained anomalies can undermine a well-established theory lies at the heart of all conspiratorial thinking (as well as creationism, Holocaust denial and the various crank theories of physics). All the "evidence" for a 9/11 conspiracy falls under the rubric of this fallacy. Such notions are easily refuted by noting that scientific theories are not built on single facts alone but on a convergence of evidence assembled from multiple lines of inquiry.

On the issues of steels:

For example, according to 9-11 Research: An Independent Investigation of the 9-11-2001 Attack, steel melts at a temperature of 2,777 degrees Fahrenheit, but jet fuel burns at only 1,517 degrees F. No melted steel, no collapsed towers. "The planes did not bring those towers down; bombs did," says AboveTopSecret.com: Conspiracy Theories, UFOs, Politics, and Many Other "Alternative Topics". Wrong. In an article in the Journal of the Minerals, Metals, and Materials Society and in subsequent interviews, Thomas Eagar, an engineering professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, explains why: steel loses 50 percent of its strength at 1,200 degrees F; 90,000 liters of jet fuel ignited other combustible materials such as rugs, curtains, furniture and paper, which continued burning after the jet fuel was exhausted, raising temperatures above 1,400 degrees F and spreading the inferno throughout each building. Temperature differentials of hundreds of degrees across single steel horizontal trusses caused them to sag--straining and then breaking the angle clips that held the beams to the vertical columns. Once one truss failed, others followed. When one floor collapsed onto the next floor below, that floor subsequently gave way, creating a pancaking effect that triggered each 500,000-ton structure to crumble. Conspiricists argue that the buildings should have fallen over on their sides, but with 95 percent of each building consisting of air, they could only have collapsed straight down.

 

[CurveLight]

What is the source for the quote regarding 77?

 

[CurveLight]

if you got your head out of your ass and did research and stopped listening to the corporate controlled media, you would know they designed that in mind with an airliner slamming into it at 600 mph saying that it could have taken a hit from MULTIPLE airliners.
loyal Bush dupe.
YouTube - frank demartini I know im wasting my time posting that video and you'll ignore it though and not watch it,you Bush dupes always do that.

Yeah, and the Titanic was the cruiseliner ever built, an amazing ship that would earn its name.




Then it actually hit a piece of icefor the first time and we found out it was a bit overhyped.

Grape jelly cactus juice on Saturn's rings cause the great butterfly wings. On a worm's back the polar bear saddles rested easily in the chocolate swirl and the long island tea was short on lemon. Therefore, your response makes perfect sense.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

if you got your head out of your ass and did research and stopped listening to the corporate controlled media, you would know they designed that in mind with an airliner slamming into it at 600 mph saying that it could have taken a hit from MULTIPLE airliners.
loyal Bush dupe.
YouTube - frank demartini I know im wasting my time posting that video and you'll ignore it though and not watch it,you Bush dupes always do that.

Yeah, and the Titanic was the cruiseliner ever built, an amazing ship that would earn its name.



Then it actually hit a piece of icefor the first time and we found out it was a bit overhyped.

what a coward,like all Bush dupes,you ignore what the architects and engineers said with apples and oranges with that pitiful Titanic example.You ignore what the photos show and what credible witnesses say as well cause your so much in denial not to mention you ignore the laws of physics that scientists have gone by for thousands of years.how pitiful.

 

[Gamolon]

This was the first known instance of fire causing the total collapse of a tall building,

How many of those other buildings were first hit with a 757 and were constructed in the same manner?

if you got your head out of your ass and did research and stopped listening to the corporate controlled media, you would know they designed that in mind with an airliner slamming into it at 600 mph saying that it could have taken a hit from MULTIPLE airliners.

It did survive the impact. Do you understand what impact means from a design perspective? Obviously not. Impact does not describe an action over a period of time. Even Leslie Robertson said the towers survived the impact as he stated here:

It appears that about 25,000 people safely exited the buildings, almost all of them from below the impact floors; almost everyone above the impact floors perished, either from the impact and fire or from the subsequent collapse. The structures of the buildings were heroic in some ways but less so in others. The buildings survived the impact of the Boeing 767 aircraft, an impact very much greater than had been contemplated in our design (a slow-flying Boeing 707 lost in the fog and seeking a landing field). Therefore, the robustness of the towers was exemplary. At the same time, the fires raging in the inner reaches of the buildings undermined their strength. In time, the unimaginable happened . . . wounded by the impact of the aircraft and bleeding from the fires, both of the towers of the World Trade Center collapsed.

National Academy of Engineering (NAE) - Reflections on the World Trade Center

 

[LA RAM FAN]

How many of those other buildings were first hit with a 757 and were constructed in the same manner?

if you got your head out of your ass and did research and stopped listening to the corporate controlled media, you would know they designed that in mind with an airliner slamming into it at 600 mph saying that it could have taken a hit from MULTIPLE airliners.

It did survive the impact. Do you understand what impact means from a design perspective? Obviously not. Impact does not describe an action over a period of time. Even Leslie Robertson said the towers survived the impact as he stated here:

It appears that about 25,000 people safely exited the buildings, almost all of them from below the impact floors; almost everyone above the impact floors perished, either from the impact and fire or from the subsequent collapse. The structures of the buildings were heroic in some ways but less so in others. The buildings survived the impact of the Boeing 767 aircraft, an impact very much greater than had been contemplated in our design (a slow-flying Boeing 707 lost in the fog and seeking a landing field). Therefore, the robustness of the towers was exemplary. At the same time, the fires raging in the inner reaches of the buildings undermined their strength. In time, the unimaginable happened . . . wounded by the impact of the aircraft and bleeding from the fires, both of the towers of the World Trade Center collapsed.

National Academy of Engineering (NAE) - Reflections on the World Trade Center

lol,again you guys ignore what the experts say,the photographs,witness testimonys and that video that cant be debunked.priceless.lol. oh and for the hundreth time Gam,stop quoting what Robertson said,he was bought off.What Skilling and Demartini said proves Robertson is a liar also in case your not aware of it,NIST has ADMITTED the towers fell at freefall speed that you always insisted that they didnt.lol. like Curvelight said,if you guys arent going to be serious,then forget it.create another thread liek this WHEN you guys are ready to be serious and stop ignoring evidence and facts and witness testimonys.