Stalin

[JoeB131]

Stalin was more of a threat than Hitler. The Third Reich was always going to self-destruct as Hitler lost power. The Communists had an iron grip on power in the USSR and viewed every other government as enemies that would destroy the USSR if given a chance. Putin still believes that and is trying to act on it.

Well, the real question was, who was Stalin a threat to? Answer- he was a threat to Rich people, which is why the West, feckless as they were, ignored Japanese and German Aggression for more than a decade hoping the Axis Powers would take out those dirty-stinking commies before they redistributed the wealth or anything.

And in the end, the world had to rely on Stalin to save it from the Axis. "Save us, Mr. Commie!!!"

Whoops, Stalin Saved us, but now he's keeping Eastern Europe and arming the Commies in China! Those dirty stinking Commies!!!

Why does that not surprise me.

Given that they have Drippy as a teacher, I'm surprised they know much of anything.

Yes and the defender of Stalin @JoeB131 forgot that Stalin stole the A bomb from the USA and NEVER had Hitler stole from the USA. Joe defends

Well, it kind of depends how you define "Stole". The Soviets were working on their own bomb program. We got there first and thought we could intimidate the rest of the world with a monopoly.

The US was the only country to use nukes on people. (At least so far). That doesn't put us on a moral high plane.

Joe defends FDR. FDR hated blacks. FDR hated Jews. FDR kept them away from the USA. FDR hated the Japanese. HE jailed thousands of them.

Uh, yes, he jailed people who might be sympathetic to the Axis. It wasn't just Japanese. We also locked up 20,000 Germans and 5,000 Italians who had fascist sympathies. Given some of the other shit done by other powers (Axis and Allies) during the war, this seems, really kind of tame.

"What's the worst thing you ever did?"
Chaing: I flooded the Yellow River and killed 300,000 of my own people!
Japan: I slaughtered 300,000 civilians in Nanking, and did the Bataan Death March.
Churchill: I let 4 million Bengals starve to death because I rerouted resources away from them.
Stalin: Man, I did a number on the Volga Germans!!
Hitler: Need you ask?

FDR: "Well, um, I locked up some people who were too sympathetic to the enemy for a short time, and released most of them before the war was even over."

Germany did come close to defeating @JoeB131 favorite Communist but don't fear, he also came to the aid of XI of China.

 

[Soupnazi630]

So what? Why do you think East Berlin was destroyed? Did you ever hear of something called WW II? And why shouldn't the Warsaw Pact nations consist of Communist nations? Did you ever ask yourself why the Western nations were all Capitalist? I am willing to bet that you don't know ..... at all. In fact, I'm sure you know nothing because you never stopped to think. And, BTW, did you not notice that armed troops were also on the Western side of those borders? Duh.

The armed tropps in the west were not stoppinmg anyone from leaving.

 

[Soupnazi630]

It was a necessity. If the Sovjet Union had halted their advance at the Oder you would have been slaughtered to the last man.

All false

 

[Soupnazi630]

Very strange question... I and maybe you live because Stalin defeated Hitler. Always remember that when you hear anti-Stalin propaganda.

That is akin to excusing a mass murderer who helps capure a serial killer

When s monster like Staling defeats a monster like Hitler it does not make him less of a monster and the real bullshit propaganda is from those defending Stalin

 

[Robert W]

Well, the real question was, who was Stalin a threat to? Answer- he was a threat to Rich people, which is why the West, feckless as they were, ignored Japanese and German Aggression for more than a decade hoping the Axis Powers would take out those dirty-stinking commies before they redistributed the wealth or anything.

And in the end, the world had to rely on Stalin to save it from the Axis. "Save us, Mr. Commie!!!"

Whoops, Stalin Saved us, but now he's keeping Eastern Europe and arming the Commies in China! Those dirty stinking Commies!!!

You display your love affair with commies when you discuss Stalin. FDR is who ignored Germany and Japan. We realise to you Stalin was the savior. Why did you ignore the 2,000,000 you admit Russians he murdered to treat him as a savior?

 

[JoeB131]

You display your love affair with commies when you discuss Stalin. FDR is who ignored Germany and Japan.

He did? The reality is prior to Pearl Harbor, most Americans didn't want to go to war again. They looked at WWI, and realized it made the world a worse place. That FDR got involved helping China and Britain as far as he did was quite a lot.

We realise to you Stalin was the savior.

No, but you can't underplay the role of the USSR in ending the war.

Why did you ignore the 2,000,000 you admit Russians he murdered to treat him as a savior?

Because it's not relevant to the point.

By way of comparison, Leopold II killed 2 million Congolese to make a profit.

 

[Robert W]

He did? The reality is prior to Pearl Harbor, most Americans didn't want to go to war again. They looked at WWI, and realized it made the world a worse place. That FDR got involved helping China and Britain as far as he did was quite a lot.

Yet FDR poked his nose into Japan's affairs. Hitler was liked by FDR. Hitler hated Jews. Stalin hated Jews. FDR hated Jews. You hate Jews. When told of who abused Jews, JoeB131 always tells us some excuse.

FDR used tax money to help Stalin and England. Charles Lindbergh came back from Germany and the press quoted him as saying Germany was wonderful.

 

[Unkotare]

Joeblow is an entirely shameless apologist for one of the most murderous dictators in history. His devotion to communism is complete. What a douche bag.

 

[Robert W]

Joeblow is an entirely shameless apologist for one of the most murderous dictators in history. His devotion to communism is complete. What a douche bag.

He has guts enough to lay out Stalin's Case and also FDR case though FDR was racist , anti-Semite and provoked Japan.

 

[Unkotare]

He has guts enough to lay out Stalin's Case and also FDR case though FDR was racist , anti-Semite and provoked Japan.

One of only two presidents to throw Americans into concentration camps.

 

[JoeB131]

Yet FDR poked his nose into Japan's affairs.

Um, no. Japan was illegally invading China. He tried to use economic sanctions to stop the bad behavior.

Hitler was liked by FDR.

No, he wasn't.

FDR used tax money to help Stalin and England. Charles Lindbergh came back from Germany and the press quoted him as saying Germany was wonderful.

Yes, Lindbergh was a Nazi Apologist, who totally lost his reputation when the camps got liberated.

He has guts enough to lay out Stalin's Case and also FDR case though FDR was racist , anti-Semite and provoked Japan.

FDR still remains one of our greatest presidents.

As for Stalin, he was a necessary evil. Russia still struggles with his legacy, as he was recently named the third greatest person in their history (After the guy who freed the Serfs and a literal Saint. )

 

[AZrailwhale]

Well, the real question was, who was Stalin a threat to? Answer- he was a threat to Rich people, which is why the West, feckless as they were, ignored Japanese and German Aggression for more than a decade hoping the Axis Powers would take out those dirty-stinking commies before they redistributed the wealth or anything.

And in the end, the world had to rely on Stalin to save it from the Axis. "Save us, Mr. Commie!!!"

Whoops, Stalin Saved us, but now he's keeping Eastern Europe and arming the Commies in China! Those dirty stinking Commies!!!


Given that they have Drippy as a teacher, I'm surprised they know much of anything.



Well, it kind of depends how you define "Stole". The Soviets were working on their own bomb program. We got there first and thought we could intimidate the rest of the world with a monopoly.

The US was the only country to use nukes on people. (At least so far). That doesn't put us on a moral high plane.



Uh, yes, he jailed people who might be sympathetic to the Axis. It wasn't just Japanese. We also locked up 20,000 Germans and 5,000 Italians who had fascist sympathies. Given some of the other shit done by other powers (Axis and Allies) during the war, this seems, really kind of tame.

"What's the worst thing you ever did?"
Chaing: I flooded the Yellow River and killed 300,000 of my own people!
Japan: I slaughtered 300,000 civilians in Nanking, and did the Bataan Death March.
Churchill: I let 4 million Bengals starve to death because I rerouted resources away from them.
Stalin: Man, I did a number on the Volga Germans!!
Hitler: Need you ask?

FDR: "Well, um, I locked up some people who were too sympathetic to the enemy for a short time, and released most of them before the war was even over."

Stalin was a threat to EVERYONE. Unless you are too stupid to look at the quality of life in the old Soviet Union, you'd see that. Lines for everything, shortages of everything except government propaganda, secret police sending anyone who disagreed with the Party to Gulags to be worked to death.

 

[JoeB131]

Stalin was a threat to EVERYONE. Unless you are too stupid to look at the quality of life in the old Soviet Union, you'd see that. Lines for everything, shortages of everything except government propaganda, secret police sending anyone who disagreed with the Party to Gulags to be worked to death.

A few points here. Was the quality of life in the USSR worse than it was for the US? Absolutely.

Was it better than it was under the Tsar? Absolutely!

Stalin took a country that was broken by war and revolution and invasion and famine, and turned it into one of the world's two superpowers by the time of his death.

Was his rule harsh? Absolutely. Did he do horrible things? Um, yeah, no one is arguing he didn't.

My point is, if you want to have an honest discussion, you don't have it by rehashing some Bircher Bullshit about how "Stalin killed 60 million people!!!!"

One of only two presidents to throw Americans into concentration camps.

Yes, but FDR, unlike Trump, was justified.

I'd also argue any president who sent Native Americans to reservations was sending them to Concentration camps. Not to mention to conduct of the US Army in the Philippines from 1899 - 1902.

 

[AZrailwhale]

A few points here. Was the quality of life in the USSR worse than it was for the US? Absolutely.

Was it better than it was under the Tsar? Absolutely!

Stalin took a country that was broken by war and revolution and invasion and famine, and turned it into one of the world's two superpowers by the time of his death.

Was his rule harsh? Absolutely. Did he do horrible things? Um, yeah, no one is arguing he didn't.

My point is, if you want to have an honest discussion, you don't have it by rehashing some Bircher Bullshit about how "Stalin killed 60 million people!!!!"




Yes, but FDR, unlike Trump, was justified.

I'd also argue any president who sent Native Americans to reservations was sending them to Concentration camps. Not to mention to conduct of the US Army in the Philippines from 1899 - 1902.

The USSR was never a superpower. It was a third-world country with a second world military. The only real power it had was nuclear weapons that were developed with stolen technology that the USSR could never match. All you have to do is compare the weapons it and the West produced generation by generation. Soviet weapons were always inferior in design and construction. The MiG 21 was far inferior to the English Electric Lightning and the Dassault Mirage (all three being interceptors of the same generation) The Mig 23 was far inferior to the F-4 Phantom II and F-105. The YAK-38 was far inferior to the Hawker Sea Harrier. The T-55 was far inferior to the Centurian and M-48 and the T-62 was inferior to the M-60A1 and Chieftan. The MiG-25 used vacuum tube tech when western fighters were using integrated circuits.

 

[Unkotare]

...

Yes, but FDR, unlike Trump, was justified.
...

It was Wilson and fdr, and neither was justified. Just like YOU are not justified in your defense of communism and murder.

 

[AlexanderPK]

My point is, if you want to have an honest discussion, you don't have it by rehashing some Bircher Bullshit about how "Stalin killed 60 million people!!!!"

A while back Beatrice or whachamacallher, the pious chick, was bitching about 100 mil, now it's down to 60. What's happening? Are Americans sobering up?

 

[Ringo]

Russia still struggles with his legacy, as he was recently named the third greatest person in their history (After the guy who freed the Serfs and a literal Saint. )

During this poll Stalin was confidently in the lead, until the authorities, constantly conducting anti-soviet propaganda in Russia did not realize that such a result is not beneficial to them, and suddenly Stalin was in third place, and in first place Alexander Nevsky, a man from the 13th century.... And there is no chance in hell that in a fair poll Alexander II would have come in second place.

 

[JoeB131]

The USSR was never a superpower. It was a third-world country with a second world military. The only real power it had was nuclear weapons that were developed with stolen technology that the USSR could never match. All you have to do is compare the weapons it and the West produced generation by generation. Soviet weapons were always inferior in design and construction. The MiG 21 was far inferior to the English Electric Lightning and the Dassault Mirage (all three being interceptors of the same generation) The Mig 23 was far inferior to the F-4 Phantom II and F-105. The YAK-38 was far inferior to the Hawker Sea Harrier. The T-55 was far inferior to the Centurian and M-48 and the T-62 was inferior to the M-60A1 and Chieftan. The MiG-25 used vacuum tube tech when western fighters were using integrated circuits.

Only an airchair warrior could masturbate over "weapons systems".

Considering the US's record in war since WWII hasn't been that great. (Our record is 1-3-1!), I don't think our technology is all that. We've been rolled by third-world countries that had far less resources but much greater resolve.

Should point out the USSR did most of the heavy lifting in WWII, and they got a man into space long before we did.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Only an airchair warrior could masturbate over "weapons systems".

Considering the US's record in war since WWII hasn't been that great. (Our record is 1-3-1!), I don't think our technology is all that. We've been rolled by third-world countries that had far less resources but much greater resolve.

Should point out the USSR did most of the heavy lifting in WWII, and they got a man into space long before we did.

What happened to you, pal? You were as anti-Russian as it gets and now this?

 

[JoeB131]

What happened to you, pal? You were as anti-Russian as it gets and now this?

I'm still anti-Russian.

But I also try to adhere to historical accuracy. Russia did most of the heavy lifting in Europe, and the mere threat of their entrance into the war in the Pacific was enough to get Japan to surrender (even more than the atomic bomb.)