Squashing The Ignorance. Republican Health Care Plans Exposed

[JakeStarkey]

And there are plenty of medical professionals who are for it. I had to take a friend to ER several months ago, and almost every professional there from the doctors to the externs were for national health insurance. Having said all of that, Ollie, I truly hope you are getting good care. If you are not, then go to the ombudsman then and complain, long and loudly.

 

[Polk]

The payments to doctors are going to pass anyway. It's not a matter of appearances. The "doctor fix" would be passed no matter which party controlled Congress, and for the Republicans to claim that the "doctor fix" is part of the health care reform effort is pure political theater. The only difference between what is being proposed right now and what has been done for the past decade is they're saying pay for it all at once instead of pretending like they're not going to pay for it, then pay it at the last second.

It is deception no matter how you look at it. the democrats are claiming that they have a deficit neutral bill yet part of that bill is cuts in medicare payments to Doctors, which will simply get paid out of a different pocket and go straight to the debt. THEY LIE!

See, you have no idea what you're talking about. The bill is not paid for by cutting payments to doctors. The "doctors fix" has nothing to do with what's in the health care bill. Under current federal law (passed when the Republicans first took control of Congress), increases in Medicare payments to doctors are pegged to general inflation instead of health care cost inflation (which were moving in tandem at the time). Since then, health care cost have increased faster that overall prices, resulting in a declining amount being paid to doctors in real terms. Instead of just admitting this is the case and changing the law, the Republicans instead passed annual "fixes" to pay the doctors the difference in the two amounts.

 

[Polk]

And there are plenty of medical professionals who are for it. I had to take a friend to ER several months ago, and almost every professional there from the doctors to the externs were for national health insurance. Having said all of that, Ollie, I truly hope you are getting good care. If you are not, then go to the ombudsman then and complain, long and loudly.

My uncle works in the health care industry and is one of the most hardcore conservatives you'll meet on most issues and he supports universal health care. His argument is that we already make the social choice that we're not going to let people die for lack of ability to pay. Therefore, anyone who lacks insurance will eventually end up in the ER, raising the cost of treatment for everyone. If we're going to pay to treat everyone anyway, we should treat as many as we can in the offices of GPs, which won't cost as much.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Because, Ollie, there are no socialist bills, silly boy. By the by, did you see the Reuter's poll: 60% of Americans support the public option. The bill will pass in time for the Democrats to campaign ad infinitum ad nauseum next year on it. The GOP is so toasted.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 41% of voters nationwide favor the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. Fifty-three percent (53%) are opposed to it. Those figures include 22% who Strongly Favor the plan and 40% who are Strongly Opposed.

Health Care Reform - Rasmussen Reports™

You think these Senators only look at one poll? They know who is the most accurate. And they like their jobs.

There are MANY polls that show less than 40% of people now favor the government option.

 

[SFC Ollie]

And there are plenty of medical professionals who are for it. I had to take a friend to ER several months ago, and almost every professional there from the doctors to the externs were for national health insurance. Having said all of that, Ollie, I truly hope you are getting good care. If you are not, then go to the ombudsman then and complain, long and loudly.

My uncle works in the health care industry and is one of the most hardcore conservatives you'll meet on most issues and he supports universal health care. His argument is that we already make the social choice that we're not going to let people die for lack of ability to pay. Therefore, anyone who lacks insurance will eventually end up in the ER, raising the cost of treatment for everyone. If we're going to pay to treat everyone anyway, we should treat as many as we can in the offices of GPs, which won't cost as much.

Regardless of your arguments the original idea was to cover more Americans with health insurance, and to do that by making it less expensive. The congress has failed in this. The cost for many will go up, Taxes will go up. The cost to many businesses will go up. There will not be more Doctors to treat more people, Fact is there may be less. And the cost will be at least Double what we are being told, look at most Government programs. They always seem to cost so much more.

Smaller government is what we need, not bigger.

 

[Polk]

And there are plenty of medical professionals who are for it. I had to take a friend to ER several months ago, and almost every professional there from the doctors to the externs were for national health insurance. Having said all of that, Ollie, I truly hope you are getting good care. If you are not, then go to the ombudsman then and complain, long and loudly.

My uncle works in the health care industry and is one of the most hardcore conservatives you'll meet on most issues and he supports universal health care. His argument is that we already make the social choice that we're not going to let people die for lack of ability to pay. Therefore, anyone who lacks insurance will eventually end up in the ER, raising the cost of treatment for everyone. If we're going to pay to treat everyone anyway, we should treat as many as we can in the offices of GPs, which won't cost as much.

Regardless of your arguments the original idea was to cover more Americans with health insurance, and to do that by making it less expensive. The congress has failed in this. The cost for many will go up, Taxes will go up. The cost to many businesses will go up. There will not be more Doctors to treat more people, Fact is there may be less. And the cost will be at least Double what we are being told, look at most Government programs. They always seem to cost so much more.

Smaller government is what we need, not bigger.

Both the CBO and outside analysis say that the Senate bill would reduce premiums and reduce the deficit.

 

[JakeStarkey]

And there are plenty of medical professionals who are for it. I had to take a friend to ER several months ago, and almost every professional there from the doctors to the externs were for national health insurance. Having said all of that, Ollie, I truly hope you are getting good care. If you are not, then go to the ombudsman then and complain, long and loudly.

My uncle works in the health care industry and is one of the most hardcore conservatives you'll meet on most issues and he supports universal health care. His argument is that we already make the social choice that we're not going to let people die for lack of ability to pay. Therefore, anyone who lacks insurance will eventually end up in the ER, raising the cost of treatment for everyone. If we're going to pay to treat everyone anyway, we should treat as many as we can in the offices of GPs, which won't cost as much.

Regardless of your arguments the original idea was to cover more Americans with health insurance, and to do that by making it less expensive. The congress has failed in this. The cost for many will go up, Taxes will go up. The cost to many businesses will go up. There will not be more Doctors to treat more people, Fact is there may be less. And the cost will be at least Double what we are being told, look at most Government programs. They always seem to cost so much more.

Smaller government is what we need, not bigger.

Ollie you are giving a mere assertion that no one has been able to give even adequate, much less convincing, evidence in support. Reform is going to happen.

 

[SFC Ollie]

My uncle works in the health care industry and is one of the most hardcore conservatives you'll meet on most issues and he supports universal health care. His argument is that we already make the social choice that we're not going to let people die for lack of ability to pay. Therefore, anyone who lacks insurance will eventually end up in the ER, raising the cost of treatment for everyone. If we're going to pay to treat everyone anyway, we should treat as many as we can in the offices of GPs, which won't cost as much.

Regardless of your arguments the original idea was to cover more Americans with health insurance, and to do that by making it less expensive. The congress has failed in this. The cost for many will go up, Taxes will go up. The cost to many businesses will go up. There will not be more Doctors to treat more people, Fact is there may be less. And the cost will be at least Double what we are being told, look at most Government programs. They always seem to cost so much more.

Smaller government is what we need, not bigger.

Both the CBO and outside analysis say that the Senate bill would reduce premiums and reduce the deficit.

And this is where I stop believing the CBO, since when do you start up a whole new Governmental Department and save money? Especially when there is already a Department that does the same thing. All I can say is that those taxes are going to have to be even higher and more widespread than we can even dream of. Yet today I hear thet Mr Obama may be considering some tax cuts. How conservative of him. I wonder if that will be before or after the Bush tax cuts are ended and everyones taxes go back up? And the reducing Premiums, that will be for some people, not all. For many the premiums will go up.

Interesting, I found this little tidbit:

The Congressional Budget Office Wednesday night released its cost analysis of the Republican health care plan and found that it would reduce health care premiums and cut the deficit by $68 billion over ten years.

The Republican plan does not call for a government insurance plan but rather attempts to reform the system by creating high-risk insurance pools, allowing people to purchase health insurance policies across state lines and instituting medical malpractice reforms.

"Not only does the GOP plan lower health care costs, but it also increases access to quality care, including for those with pre-existing conditions, at a price our country can afford," House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...lth-plan-would-reduce-premiums--69270747.html

And from another site:

However, Republicans saw a different message from the CBO. CBO has indicated that the bill "will actively increase premiums for Americans and their families," Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) said on the floor of the Senate Monday shortly after debate on the reform bill began. "So a bill that is being sold as reducing costs is actually driving them up."

Industry groups also saw a different message as well. "This is the latest report to confirm that the current healthcare reform proposal fails to bend the healthcare cost curve and will result in double digit premium increases for millions of Americans," said Robert Zirkelbach, America's Health Insurance Plan press representative, in a statement.

AHIP added that subsidies will not lower premiums. "Subsidies are essential to helping low and moderate income families afford healthcare coverage ... but in the same way that Pell Grants do not lower the cost of college tuition, subsidies do not reduce underlying medical costs."

The Great CBO Debate: Does Reform Bill Cut or Create Costs?


I'm not buying it. They need to start from scratch and remember the simple steps to solving a problem. (If they can just keep politics out of it).

1.Identify the problem

2.Investigate ways to fix the problem

3.Fix the problem.

You do not tear down the house to fix a leaking faucet.

 

[saveliberty]

Regardless of your arguments the original idea was to cover more Americans with health insurance, and to do that by making it less expensive. The congress has failed in this. The cost for many will go up, Taxes will go up. The cost to many businesses will go up. There will not be more Doctors to treat more people, Fact is there may be less. And the cost will be at least Double what we are being told, look at most Government programs. They always seem to cost so much more.

Smaller government is what we need, not bigger.

Both the CBO and outside analysis say that the Senate bill would reduce premiums and reduce the deficit.

And this is where I stop believing the CBO, since when do you start up a whole new Governmental Department and save money? Especially when there is already a Department that does the same thing. All I can say is that those taxes are going to have to be even higher and more widespread than we can even dream of. Yet today I hear thet Mr Obama may be considering some tax cuts. How conservative of him. I wonder if that will be before or after the Bush tax cuts are ended and everyones taxes go back up? And the reducing Premiums, that will be for some people, not all. For many the premiums will go up.

Interesting, I found this little tidbit:

The Congressional Budget Office Wednesday night released its cost analysis of the Republican health care plan and found that it would reduce health care premiums and cut the deficit by $68 billion over ten years.

The Republican plan does not call for a government insurance plan but rather attempts to reform the system by creating high-risk insurance pools, allowing people to purchase health insurance policies across state lines and instituting medical malpractice reforms.

"Not only does the GOP plan lower health care costs, but it also increases access to quality care, including for those with pre-existing conditions, at a price our country can afford," House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said.

CBO: Republican health plan would reduce premiums, cut deficit | Washington Examiner

And from another site:

However, Republicans saw a different message from the CBO. CBO has indicated that the bill "will actively increase premiums for Americans and their families," Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) said on the floor of the Senate Monday shortly after debate on the reform bill began. "So a bill that is being sold as reducing costs is actually driving them up."

Industry groups also saw a different message as well. "This is the latest report to confirm that the current healthcare reform proposal fails to bend the healthcare cost curve and will result in double digit premium increases for millions of Americans," said Robert Zirkelbach, America's Health Insurance Plan press representative, in a statement.

AHIP added that subsidies will not lower premiums. "Subsidies are essential to helping low and moderate income families afford healthcare coverage ... but in the same way that Pell Grants do not lower the cost of college tuition, subsidies do not reduce underlying medical costs."

The Great CBO Debate: Does Reform Bill Cut or Create Costs?


I'm not buying it. They need to start from scratch and remember the simple steps to solving a problem. (If they can just keep politics out of it).

1.Identify the problem

2.Investigate ways to fix the problem

3.Fix the problem.

You do not tear down the house to fix a leaking faucet.

You do if you don't like the house or the people in it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

saveliberty, you are right. Your folks got thrown out of office because the American public did not like them or the house they were building. In other words, slick, a new crew is in fixing the errors in construction of the old crew. Get to used to it. Your opinion is irrelevant.

 

[SFC Ollie]

saveliberty, you are right. Your folks got thrown out of office because the American public did not like them or the house they were building. In other words, slick, a new crew is in fixing the errors in construction of the old crew. Get to used to it. Your opinion is irrelevant.

We'll see in 12 months.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

saveliberty, you are right. Your folks got thrown out of office because the American public did not like them or the house they were building. In other words, slick, a new crew is in fixing the errors in construction of the old crew. Get to used to it. Your opinion is irrelevant.

We'll see in 12 months.

10 months and 29 days till november 2nd 2010

always vote, never re-elect.

 

[SFC Ollie]

saveliberty, you are right. Your folks got thrown out of office because the American public did not like them or the house they were building. In other words, slick, a new crew is in fixing the errors in construction of the old crew. Get to used to it. Your opinion is irrelevant.

We'll see in 12 months.

10 months and 29 days till november 2nd 2010

always vote, never re-elect.

Other than a few local people I haven't voted for an incumbent in nearly 10 years.

 

[Meister]

And there are plenty of medical professionals who are for it. I had to take a friend to ER several months ago, and almost every professional there from the doctors to the externs were for national health insurance. Having said all of that, Ollie, I truly hope you are getting good care. If you are not, then go to the ombudsman then and complain, long and loudly.

I've talked to several Dr.'s on this and everyone of them are for healthcare reform, but not what the democrats are offering. All of them said that tort reform is a must, and no public option. They stated that health insurance companies should be able to sell their wares in all 50 states. That is how your drive prices down, without a government option. Hell, what do they know? They're only some stupid ass Doctors who really don't know more than a politician in DC

 

[JakeStarkey]

saveliberty, you are right. Your folks got thrown out of office because the American public did not like them or the house they were building. In other words, slick, a new crew is in fixing the errors in construction of the old crew. Get to used to it. Your opinion is irrelevant.

We'll see in 12 months.

You will see Dem majorities in the House and the Senate, you will see health insurance reform passed, you will see an American public that still despises the GOP, rightfully so.

 

[SFC Ollie]

saveliberty, you are right. Your folks got thrown out of office because the American public did not like them or the house they were building. In other words, slick, a new crew is in fixing the errors in construction of the old crew. Get to used to it. Your opinion is irrelevant.

We'll see in 12 months.

You will see Dem majorities in the House and the Senate, you will see health insurance reform passed, you will see an American public that still despises the GOP, rightfully so.

Oh you may be right about the Dems still having a majority, but I can promise that the super majority will be gone. and the Dems will also lose quite a few seats in the House. As for their screwed up health care bill, they better jump quick, because their window is closing fast.

As far as despising...that's sort of like hatred, a strong word that most people do not mean. I know a lot of Democrats that I do not hate or despise. Good friends of mine too. And not one of them has ever called me a moron or stupid.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Not talking about hatred at all, Ollie, so don't put words or definitions in my mouth. I am absolutely correct in stating that many, many good social values conservative folks here in my part of the South despise the GOP they thought was going to uphold their values but betrayed them. Nothing that has happened in the last year has changed that feeling of betrayal. Friends from all over the country tell me it is the same way there. These folks feel as if they were used and thrown away until the next election. They simply will not give this GOP another chance anytime soon.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Real shame when people vote for a party. I can't remember an election where I voted a straight ticket.The GOP Had a bad candidate last election. But if you think that conservatives will flock en mass to the liberal candidate, well I don't know what to tell you. But regardless despise is still hate. At least in my language.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your language lacks texture and nuance, then. I am not suggesting these people will vote en masse for the liberal candidates. The Democratic Party, particularly in the Border and Deep South, will run more conservative and moderate candidates than last year. And many, I think, will, instead of voting Democratic, will do what they did in 2008: stay home. That hurts the GOP. The Dems will pass their reform bills, hammer the GOP about them, and return solid majorities.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Your language lacks texture and nuance, then. I am not suggesting these people will vote en masse for the liberal candidates. The Democratic Party, particularly in the Border and Deep South, will run more conservative and moderate candidates than last year. And many, I think, will, instead of voting Democratic, will do what they did in 2008: stay home. That hurts the GOP. The Dems will pass their reform bills, hammer the GOP about them, and return solid majorities.

Well then I guess the US needs a conservative version of ACORN. Someone to get out the conservative voters.