Space travel another way of getting into space

[American Horse]

FIRST, THE PROBLEM

Our manned journey into space seems to have lost its spark.
Except until recently it has been "owned" by NASA, and the agency has sucked any "spark” out of all private and commercial manned space ventures. Only the industries that serve as the industrial base and the satellite communications sector are separate but not independent from the Federal Bureaucracy; if you cold call them that. After the moon landings NASA was cut adrift. Without a tangible goal, the once potent organization has degenerated into an unholy alliance between politicians and industrialists.

Except for (...and a small glimmer of hope has come from) the NASA Centennial Challenge program, as a way of incentivizing and promoting talent otherwise unmined, very little has been done to advance the space program into the private sector. Almost without exception that is where all ventures of exploration in human history have begun, whether it be the Greek Colonies, the “discovery” of America by Columbus, or the Pilgrims at Plymouth Colony. In all of those, economic gain was the spark driving the discovery and then the development of a new worlds separate from the old worlds.

There has to be a plan to add direct and apparent economic benefits, noble purpose, and adventurous potential to manned space flight for it to reach its real potential for humanity. That’s what is missing now, and only opportunities for private profit can give it the purpose it needs to attract the means and the talent.

 

[American Horse]

SECOND - THE SOLUTION

In 1992 a man named Marshal T. Savage published such a plan. He called it “The Millenial Project” – Colonizing the Galaxy in Eight /Easy Steps

The steps were:

1. Establish a Foundation – Constitute an organization created to realize these destinies, beginning with a land-based prototype sea colony, then a sea colony within a lagoon

2. Grow cities at sea; floating colonies to feed the world from biomasses grown and refined there, and learn the lessons of space colonization, produce electrical energy from the differential of surface and deep sea temperatures with a concentrated array of Open Cycle OTECs to produce energy for the colony AND for export, at low production cost, for profit to the outside world to replace coal, oil, and nuclear sources of energy.

3. Construct a bridge to space by deploying as a means of manned or unmanned transportation, capsules propelled first by a "mass driver" through a tunnel to a mountain top at the equator, to 18,000 feet (16 fps), and then, already above half the atmosphere, it would, by gound based lasers, be pushed on into orbit by vaporizing a 4-ton slab of reinforced ice mounted and contained aft. All this would be done with electrical energy produced by the sea colony.

4. Establish habitable ecosphere’s in space

5. Build domes over craters on the moon creating miniature ecologies and communities for further expansion into the solar system

6. Terraform Mars to create a living planet to sustain us

7. Transmute the substance of our solar system

8. Colonize the stars

DISCUSS?

 

[JW Frogen]

We have to wait for Zefram Cochrane to be born.

 

[eagleseven]

Hurricanes = Death to Ocean-Cities

Railgun technology is improving, however. Don't think we could launch a shuttle with it, though.

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2009-11/kaboom-railgun-completes-first-successful-test-firing?page=

 

[Modbert]

Solution: We must defeat Xenu!

 

[eagleseven]

Solution: We must defeat Xenu!

We could just steal one of their ships, deconstruct the engine, and voila! Of course, we'd have to exterminate all traitors to the human race...I mean Scientologists.

 

[Modbert]

We could just steal one of their ships, figure out the engine, and voila! Of course, we'd have to exterminate all traitors to the human race...I mean Scientologists.

Ironically, I've been watching Mars Attacks! However, we shall all be lead to the promise land!

 

[eagleseven]

Ironically, I've been watching Mars Attacks!

Music. Music is the weapon!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmMSeRxzbbk&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmMSeRxzbbk&feature=related[/ame]

 

[American Horse]

Hurricanes = Death to Ocean-Cities

Railgun technology is improving, however. Don't think we could launch a shuttle with it, though.

Zero Hurricanes at the equator.

 

[Old Rocks]

Interesting concepts. If you have not already seen this site, you may find this interesting;


Space Colonisation

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Strange Things on the Moon

Why NASA and the Pentagon control all information regarding outer space.

 

[Old Rocks]

Because they do not, Frank. Think about it a bit. The European nations have a very active space program, as does Japan and China. So you are going to keep 'secrets' with that many scientists from that many nations in on the 'secrets'?

There are many things on the Moon and on Mars that are unfamiliar to us that have perfectly natural explanations within those environments.

First rule of science, Extroidenery claims require extroidenery evidence. I have yet to see even mundane evidence for the various claims of structures on the Moon and Mars.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Because they do not, Frank. Think about it a bit. The European nations have a very active space program, as does Japan and China. So you are going to keep 'secrets' with that many scientists from that many nations in on the 'secrets'?

There are many things on the Moon and on Mars that are unfamiliar to us that have perfectly natural explanations within those environments.

First rule of science, Extroidenery claims require extroidenery evidence. I have yet to see even mundane evidence for the various claims of structures on the Moon and Mars.

They won't even point Hubble at the Moon to get a better look for fear of damaging the optics.

 

[American Horse]

Interesting concepts. If you have not already seen this site, you may find this interesting;


Space Colonisation

Thanks OR. There's a lot there. I'll spend some time on that. The first two are no longer backed up.
BTW I've been a supporter and a dues paying member of the Planetary Society since 1986; there were, and it may have declined in recent years, two hundred and fifty thousand members word-wide.

But my point, irrespective of the technology, and Savage seems to be on top of his game in technology, is the attraction to and the importance of potential "profits" in motivating exploration and risk taking. Adventure and doing noble deeds don't attract enough capital to move a venture forward. The cost to orbit a pound of payload is still $10,000. Savage's space capsule, carrying virtually no fuel, except some for maneuvering once in space, would lower costs to a miniscule fraction of present day costs, the only energy being electrical power, which his Sea City Colonies would produce in surplus.

But, right now in the present moment, the infrastructure is in place to build on. We have worldwide land stations and orbital platforms to support space development. As long as NASA keeps some projects in the works we will keep up that infrastructure to some degree.

It''s my concern that the whole idea does not capture the imagination of the "folks" like it did at its inception. Some of these sub-orbital experimental space planes show some promise to stir people up, and that is a good thing. The lack of support fo it here on this board, too, is telling.

 

[American Horse]

Strange Things on the Moon

Why NASA and the Pentagon control all information regarding outer space.

If these were such huge mysteries scientists would flock to be the one to publicly go record. The castle (image) for instance can easily be explained by lunar-geological activity over vast periods of time either by impacts or volcanic lava tube formations and ablation. It's all a lot like the "Face on Mars," not worthy of scientists devoting much time on, and if they did they wouldn't be looked upon as serious scientific professionals.

But, all the same, thanks for bringing it up for stimulating thought.

 

[American Horse]

Because they do not, Frank. Think about it a bit. The European nations have a very active space program, as does Japan and China. So you are going to keep 'secrets' with that many scientists from that many nations in on the 'secrets'?

There are many things on the Moon and on Mars that are unfamiliar to us that have perfectly natural explanations within those environments.

First rule of science, Extroidenery claims require extroidenery evidence. I have yet to see even mundane evidence for the various claims of structures on the Moon and Mars.

They won't even point Hubble at the Moon to get a better look for fear of damaging the optics.

It could be done. But consider that scientists compete for HST time, the competition is fierce, and they don't want to waste it. Hubble could very well look at the moon with no damage to the optics. It's difficult to get a very good image of these formations, partly because of the angle of repose. What we already have is probably superior to what HST could capture from Earth orbit.

 

[Harry Dresden]

We have to wait for Zefram Cochrane to be born.

well thats not to far off....2013 according to the First Contact Novelization or 2030 according to the regular lore....

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Strange Things on the Moon

Why NASA and the Pentagon control all information regarding outer space.

If these were such huge mysteries scientists would flock to be the one to publicly go record. The castle (image) for instance can easily be explained by lunar-geological activity over vast periods of time either by impacts or volcanic lava tube formations and ablation. It's all a lot like the "Face on Mars," not worthy of scientists devoting much time on, and if they did they wouldn't be looked upon as serious scientific professionals.

But, all the same, thanks for bringing it up for stimulating thought.

Why is it so terrifying to consider that the Moon and Mars had been inhabited at some time in the distant past?

 

[ScottBernard]

I think manned space missions require too much overhead. We've already proved that we can do it. But the whole idea of sustained spaced exploration and habitation draws some serious questions as to "Why?". National honor and pride? Bragging rights?
We can barely keep things in order down here on earth. It was only a matter of time until space itself was weaponized conceptually.
The prospect of robotics is very intriguing though. I think the advancing of robotics for the future of space exploration should be pursued. Imagine the "space spinoff" potential of this, along with advances in cybernetics and artificial intelligence.

 

[American Horse]

Why is it so terrifying to consider that the Moon and Mars had been inhabited at some time in the distant past?

If there is fear, it is fear that science, in particular astronomical science will be diluted by pseudoscience on the level with astrology so that it is not taken seriously, which would be an invitation to more of the same, AND confuse the public as to the purpose of science. Surely though some bonefide astronomers/scientists have looked into your areas of interest and found ordinary explanations like for instance, the face on Mars.

It's more that people who have an interest in science, rather than pseudo-science see theories like those as a waste of time. And they feel that not much of value will come from devolving into conspiracy theories, AND that NASA and the military control information about space would fit that description. Scientist in observatories all over the world including Japan's have access to high-powered telescopes and latitude in studying anything they deem worthy.

For instance are you aware the HST is controlled by the Hubble Space Telescope Science Institute, (HSTScI) and not NASA directly? Scientists in fields related to astronomy and cosmology apply to the HSTScI User's Committee (HSTUC) to schedule time on the telescope. Some pretty unusual and to some degree frivolous requests have been made and approved. Some of those have piggy-backed on the viewing time of others without being directly reviewed and approved directly by the STUC

More on the STUC:

"It has been found valuable for national observatories to constitute a committee of users, which advises, from the users perspective, on the normal operations of the observatory, and recommends changes and improvements to both instrumentation and procedures in order to maximize scientific productivity. Such a group is needed to play a like role for Hubble Space Telescope (HST). However, the traditional structure requires modification to be utilized with HST. This observatory differs from the national observatories in that responsibilities for many aspects of the operation which may affect scientific productivity are divided between the Space Telescope Science Institute (STScI) and the Goddard Space Flight Center (GSFC). Therefore, the STScI and GSFC have agreed to establish a joint Users Committee (STUC) to provide user advice to the observatory as a whole. The formation of the STUC is not intended to restrict either organization's independence or freedom of action in seeking expert advice. Rather it is a practical way of ensuring that the observatory operations proceed in a coordinated manner in order to maximize its scientific performance."