Some Oregon schools adopting Mexican curriculum

[Shogun]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming
Population Ranked 50th
- Total (2000) 493,782

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_of_America
Population
- 2000 census 281,421,906

Percentage... 0.17%

What's the difference between 12% and 0.17%?

I bet even Shogun can figure this one out if we let him warm up with his pheonetic spelling cards for an hour.

hehehehe... PLEASE, be my guest and let the American citizens living in the state of wyoming know that you dont think they count as much as latinos who cant speak english just because their state has a lower population than non-english speaking latinos in america..

Indeed, you'll still be scratching your head wondering why the majority will be laughing at your silly fuzzy logic.

 

[jasendorf]

hehehehe... PLEASE, be my guest and let the American citizens living in the state of wyoming know that you dont think they count as much as latinos who cant speak english just because their state has a lower population than non-english speaking latinos in america..

Indeed, you'll still be scratching your head wondering why the majority will be laughing at your silly fuzzy logic.

I live in a CITY with more people than the STATE of Wyoming... why should I give a rat's ass what they think? If you ask me, their state isn't even worth the two senators we afford them. They provide less than 0.3% (and that's a generous estimate... it's really closer to 0.2% but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here) of the GDP. You wanted to make this topic about numbers and majorities and votes and Wyoming... so you brought the rope... don't be upset that I hanged you with it.

Per your suggestion:

Wyomans! Listen Up! Until your state provides some real value to our country and people start wanting to live there, you're less American than Gloria Estefan. Rhythm of the Night baby!

 

[jasendorf]

Dude.. are you fucking kidding me? What new qualifiers don't you understand that puts CITIZENS OF WYOMING above LATINO SPEAKING NON CITIZENS in the WHO IS MORE AMERICAN HEIRARCHY?

Because the topic isn't about non-citizens maybe? You've changed the subject to fit your numbers... good try!

Good grief, dude. Say, what EXACTLY do you think that could be found in MEXICAN curricula that would reflect AMERICAN culture?

Sorry, I didn't realize Mexican math was so much different! I guess in Mexico 2 + 2 = { or something? Or maybe the Mexican curricula states that the American Revolution was against China? Maybe the science books tell the kids that the sun rises because Mr. Sun is waking up instead of telling them the well known ***American value*** of the Earth rotating on its axis?

Think there will be a lot of Presidents day references to be found? Weather or not wyoming is popular with Americans does not ignore the FACT that they are a part of the Union and, therefor, are automatically closer to what it is to be an AMERICAN than latinos who don't even know the fucking native language! Are Alaskans somehow LESS refelctive of the Average American than latinos because of THEIR population issues too? This tangent is absurd.

Yes... but they're obviously more representative that Wyomans.

[

You insinuate that these kids HAVE LEARNED ENGLISH already.

No, I read the article which clearly states that these children are learning English IN CONJUNCTION with other subject. Concurrency... look it up. And, while learning English proficiently enough to learn all other subject, these students are using Spanish language materials to learn other subjects.

I don't care what language was learned first. I care that the language that the easy majority of Americans speak has not been learned with any proficiency as to keep the American Taxpayer from paying for what amounts to ESL classes in public schools. OBVIOUSLY if these kids require MEXICAN lessons then they have not learned workable ENGLISH so spare me the lecture on keeping this on topic.

So, your solution is to teach them nothing but English until they are proficient enough to discuss the Magna Cartna, Manifest Destiny, Geometry and cell division... that's your solution?

YOU can pretend that this issue is not a direct indication of the product of ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION but, again, I'm betting the very people you are defending here wouldn't be too quick to whip out their STATUS DOCUMENTS around La Migra. I guess if you want to assume that I care about which language was learned first instead of tax payers paying for ESL classes for those who never bothered to learn the fucking language well enough to function in AMERICA it's all good.

A simpleton's argument... from someone who has no solutions... I say these teachers are doing what needs to be done to educate fathers and mothers of the next generation of Americans... good for them, good for us and good for U.S.

 

[Shogun]

hehehehe..

So.. population is the only criteria for wich we allow a state to be recognized in the union, eh? nice to know.


indeed, ill play the majority game with you. I don't care if you live in a densly populated area. Wyoming is still a state of the union and, despite your opinion of it's worth, a closer representation to what it is to be an AMERICAN than a latino who cannot speak english and is getting lessons imported from MEXICO.

period. point. blank.


Your populous city doens't make Juans Burrio more reflective of American culture than John's donkey. Even if John lives in Wyoming.

hehehehehe.

 

[Angel Heart]

Where in the United States is this happening? except perhaps in a private school?

I know of one in the local school district. It's 90% taught in Spanish in Kindergarten and 1st grade. Ending with 50/50 in 6th grade.

El Puente Elementary
11250 SE 27 Avenue
Milwaukie OR 97222-7797
503.353.5495
G.M. Garcia, Principal

Welcome to El Puente Bilingual School. As a magnet school of choice, we offer bilingual education to children residing within the North Clackamas School District. “Bilingual Education” is a term that’s been used to describe many different classroom arrangements or instructional programs. When used by researchers or educators, the definition includes the deliberate and strategic use of two languages to teach grade level academics to students who are speakers of either of the two languages. The staff at El Puente is dedicated to providing students quality, grade level educational experiences that challenge their intellectual and social skills.

El Puente (“The Bridge”) Bilingual School is the only public bilingual educational institution in the North Clackamas School District. After two years of research, consultation, workshops and school visitations, El Puente opened 2 classes, kindergarten and first grade in September of 2003. The district is committed*to expanding by one grade each school year so that by the 2008-09 school year, El Puente operates a Kindergarten through sixth grade program. The student body consists of 60% native English-speakers and 40% Spanish-speakers.
The goal for all of these students is academic excellence in Spanish and English.

 

[jasendorf]

I know of one in the local school district. It's 90% taught in Spanish in Kindergarten and 1st grade. Ending with 50/50 in 6th grade.

While this is a good example of where what the article is stating is happening, it doesn't answer doniston's question:



"Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredGySgt View Post
Your ignoring the fact we are NOT requiring English be learned at all. Schools are teaching students completely in Spanish.

Where in the United Staes is this happening? except perhaps in a private school?"

Doniston wanted to know where there is a place that students are "NOT requiring English as all. Schools are teaching students completely in Spanish."

 

[Shogun]

"Because the topic isn't about non-citizens maybe? You've changed the subject to fit your numbers... good try!"


riiiight.. because CITIZENS often just dont let their kids learn english.. you know how useless it is in America and all.... This isnt a change of subject anymore than being prescribed antibiotics for the symptoms of the flu is changing the subject. Tell me, dude. Tell me WHAT sample of the American population, born here, chooses not to learn english? Tell me that you are SURE that the entire non-english population that you aregue for is here legally. NO fake SS#'s.. NO ID theft. NONE of that. ALL strait up US citizens here legally and just HAPPEN to not be able to speak working english, right?



Sorry, I didn't realize Mexican math was so much different! I guess in Mexico 2 + 2 = { or something? Or maybe the Mexican curricula states that the American Revolution was against China? Maybe the science books tell the kids that the sun rises because Mr. Sun is waking up instead of telling them the well known ***American value*** of the Earth rotating on its axis?


Math isnt the ONLY subject at hand is it? In fact, did you ever get around to telling me why the American Taxpayer should spring for spanish math and science classes or did that get lost in all the "im cooler than wyoming" chatter? Indeed, what ISN:T american about constant day of the dead and cinco de mayo referances??




"Yes... but they're obviously more representative that Wyomans. "

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

uh huh. This is probably why you and the rest of America is in stark contrast on this kind of issue. But hey, i wont hold it against you. I kinda like your tenacity.


No, I read the article which clearly states that these children are learning English IN CONJUNCTION with other subject. Concurrency... look it up. And, while learning English proficiently enough to learn all other subject, these students are using Spanish language materials to learn other subjects.

And, what, praytell, do you think IN CONJUNCTION means? you know.. as in, hey, I don't know english well enough to use it so I guess Ill have to learn it while im learning everything else.. thank god American tax payers are springing for my ESL classes! Again, tell me how America is a MEXICAN lesson again? Ahh yes.. I learned all about American culture while reading German textbooks!



"So, your solution is to teach them nothing but English until they are proficient enough to discuss the Magna Cartna, Manifest Destiny, Geometry and cell division... that's your solution?"

My solution is to find out why they have such a significant language barrier and see how such is an indication of a greater problem while letting LATINOS who seem to have the learning issue pay for the resources necessary to provide crash course ESL lessons. Japanese people have to pay for theirs so why let the latinos off so easy? The millions, speaking of percentiles, of American tax payers footing this bill are probably agreeing with me. Not that you'd want to acknowledge as much if their state is not a crammed with people as new york.



"A simpleton's argument... from someone who has no solutions... I say these teachers are doing what needs to be done to educate fathers and mothers of the next generation of Americans... good for them, good for us and good for U.S."

Indeed, lets talk about who is simple considering who wants really hard to ignore the reprocussions of illegal immigration AND the population of Wyoming. I say that teachers can continue to do this if they can find funding for it outside of the deep pockets of the American TAXPAYER. Public school is not for educating fathers and mothers. It's for investing in AMERICAN kids. and, by AMERICAN kids I don't mean juan with his fake SS card.

 

[jasendorf]

hehehehe..

So.. population is the only criteria for wich we allow a state to be recognized in the union, eh? nice to know.


indeed, ill play the majority game with you. I don't care if you live in a densly populated area. Wyoming is still a state of the union and, despite your opinion of it's worth, a closer representation to what it is to be an AMERICAN than a latino who cannot speak english and is getting lessons imported from MEXICO.

period. point. blank.

For now... kinda... but that whole, "we're gonna be cowboys forever" routine is really getting played out.

Your populous city doens't make Juans Burrio more reflective of American culture than John's donkey. Even if John lives in Wyoming.

hehehehehe.

Perhaps not, but it does make my iPod more American than John's horse.

 

[jasendorf]

riiiight.. because CITIZENS often just dont let their kids learn english.. you know how useless it is in America and all.... This isnt a change of subject anymore than being prescribed antibiotics for the symptoms of the flu is changing the subject. Tell me, dude. Tell me WHAT sample of the American population, born here, chooses not to learn english? Tell me that you are SURE that the entire non-english population that you aregue for is here legally. NO fake SS#'s.. NO ID theft. NONE of that. ALL strait up US citizens here legally and just HAPPEN to not be able to speak working english, right?

So, the only American citizens are people born here? Evidently you should have had a civics course in English or whatever language it is you speak... I would say that the vast majority of these kids attending these public schools are attending them legally. If you have evidence to the contrary... bring it. In addition, I think this is far less a question of "don't let their kids learn English" and more of a question of "don't have the skills to teach their children English." Don't blame me that we need cheap immigrant labor to run this country...

Math isnt the ONLY subject at hand is it? In fact, did you ever get around to telling me why the American Taxpayer should spring for spanish math and science classes or did that get lost in all the "im cooler than wyoming" chatter? Indeed, what ISN:T american about constant day of the dead and cinco de mayo referances??

You're right... math isn't the only subject at hand... per the article (notice how I have to keep dragging this topic BACK on track?) math, science, and even history are at hand. Which is why I attributed a sentence to each of them. I say that the American Taxpayer pays LESS to teach 2 + 2 = 4 to a Spanish speaking student than they do delaying teaching it until they are proficient in English. Do you think delaying these other studies for three, four, five years until they are proficient makes the cost any less?

And, what, praytell, do you think IN CONJUNCTION means? you know.. as in, hey, I don't know english well enough to use it so I guess Ill have to learn it while im learning everything else.. thank god American tax payers are springing for my ESL classes! Again, tell me how America is a MEXICAN lesson again? Ahh yes.. I learned all about American culture while reading German textbooks!

Are you saying that you know nothing of the history of any country that isn't an English speaking country? I suppose you told your teachers in school that you couldn't learn about Ancient Greece because you don't speak Latin? Maybe you know nothing about Germany because you don't speak German? Really, I hate to break it to you, but the histories of many countries exist in lots and lots of languages...

My solution is to find out why they have such a significant language barrier and see how such is an indication of a greater problem while letting LATINOS who seem to have the learning issue pay for the resources necessary to provide crash course ESL lessons. Japanese people have to pay for theirs so why let the latinos off so easy? The millions, speaking of percentiles, of American tax payers footing this bill are probably agreeing with me. Not that you'd want to acknowledge as much if their state is not a crammed with people as new york.

It's up for referendum every time the school boards of the districts offering these courses have their elections. Every time. Do you hate democracy and local control so much that you think you deserve a bigger say than the officials, who have been democratically elected, enacting these programs do? If the taxpayers have a problem with this program... guess what... they can throw the bums out next election cycle... that's how the system works... even the Mexican textbooks probably teach that!

Indeed, lets talk about who is simple considering who wants really hard to ignore the reprocussions of illegal immigration AND the population of Wyoming. I say that teachers can continue to do this if they can find funding for it outside of the deep pockets of the American TAXPAYER. Public school is not for educating fathers and mothers. It's for investing in AMERICAN kids. and, by AMERICAN kids I don't mean juan with his fake SS card.

Dingbat... these kids they are teaching today ARE the fathers and mothers of the next generation of Americans. The American taxpayer elected the officials who are instituting these programs... they've already had their say and if the American taxpayer wants to say something different... they'll have the next election to change to someone else who can end the program. Why do you hate representative democracy?

 

[Shogun]

So, the only American citizens are people born here? Evidently you should have had a civics course in English or whatever language it is you speak... I would say that the vast majority of these kids attending these public schools are attending them legally. If you have evidence to the contrary... bring it. In addition, I think this is far less a question of "don't let their kids learn English" and more of a question of "don't have the skills to teach their children English." Don't blame me that we need cheap immigrant labor to run this country...



I didnt say that the only citizens are born here. BUT, yes, born here or intered LEGALLY. Sorry if that trips up your motvation in this arguement. and stop acting silly. If the kids were here in second grade then they would have learned ENGLISH. If they came on the back of a truck and just hung out after their visa expired then excuse the fuck out of me for considering more than some soft headed nieve perspective on the reality of ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. dont have the skills... yea.. white trash everywhere can function using english (do to exposure to the language) but poor, poor illegals dont have the tools necessary.. Well, I guess it's time to take a ride down south then, eh? Again, how many of the total population of those you speak for would you guess is here ILLEGALLY where this language barrier is the product? You don't ahve to answer if it chaffes to do so.


You're right... math isn't the only subject at hand... per the article (notice how I have to keep dragging this topic BACK on track?) math, science, and even history are at hand. Which is why I attributed a sentence to each of them. I say that the American Taxpayer pays LESS to teach 2 + 2 = 4 to a Spanish speaking student than they do delaying teaching it until they are proficient in English. Do you think delaying these other studies for three, four, five years until they are proficient makes the cost any less?


You SAY, eh? what, is that the new scientific standard? YOU say? Did Francic Bacon help you discover this new standard? I think letting these students learn in their NATIVE country with their NATIVE language will cost the taxpayer EVEN LESS! Again, why do the japanese get shafted when all they have to do is stay longer than their visa, spawn and anchor baby and then complain about not haing the resources to teach their kid ENGLISH?




Are you saying that you know nothing of the history of any country that isn't an English speaking country? I suppose you told your teachers in school that you couldn't learn about Ancient Greece because you don't speak Latin? Maybe you know nothing about Germany because you don't speak German? Really, I hate to break it to you, but the histories of many countries exist in lots and lots of languages...


Im saying that my knowledge of CHINESE history learned in AMERICA would not be as intensive as learning CHINESE history in CHINA from CHINESE TEXTS. Likewise, learning CHINESE where I am FORCED to use it would produce faster and better results than making excuses and learning CHINESE without stimuli that would prompt learning.

So, do you think you know MORE about GREEK hisotry than, say, a student in GREECE? Humor me and answer this.




"It's up for referendum every time the school boards of the districts offering these courses have their elections. Every time. Do you hate democracy and local control so much that you think you deserve a bigger say than the officials, who have been democratically elected, enacting these programs do? If the taxpayers have a problem with this program... guess what... they can throw the bums out next election cycle... that's how the system works... even the Mexican textbooks probably teach that!"


oh NOW I hate democracy! hehehehehe.. indeed, was this program voted IN by the people or by a school obard who will enjoy finding other hobbies come the end of their terms? Yes, IM the one who is willing to ignore what the will of the people say.. hehehehe.. suuuuuure, dude. sure. Hell, Kansas eventually took care of their Int Des. voting school board members.. Too bad it took about 4 years to let the will of the people be heard, eh? In the meantime, it's not the latino popoulation paying for their lack of cultural participation..



"Dingbat... these kids they are teaching today ARE the fathers and mothers of the next generation of Americans. The American taxpayer elected the officials who are instituting these programs... they've already had their say and if the American taxpayer wants to say something different... they'll have the next election to change to someone else who can end the program. Why do you hate representative democracy?"


Well, at least the LEGAL ones are. I guess we can find another anchor baby loophole to cram the rest in by the time the progeny of illegal mexicans start bitching about cuban immigration.

talk about strawmen

 

[jasendorf]

I didnt say that the only citizens are born here.

Well, uh, yes... you did. Maybe you didn't MEAN "born here"... but that's most assuredly what you said: "Tell me WHAT sample of the American population, born here, chooses not to learn english?"

BUT, yes, born here or intered LEGALLY. Sorry if that trips up your motvation in this arguement. and stop acting silly. If the kids were here in second grade then they would have learned ENGLISH.

So, a kid who comes here in the second grade speaks English on the first day? That's just nonsense. We're talking about second graders who don't speak English yet. (As well as other ages... elementary school age)

If they came on the back of a truck and just hung out after their visa expired then excuse the fuck out of me for considering more than some soft headed nieve perspective on the reality of ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. dont have the skills... yea.. white trash everywhere can function using english (do to exposure to the language) but poor, poor illegals dont have the tools necessary..

Yeah, I know this might be hard for you to comprehend... but if you don't speak English... you pretty much don't have the tools to teach your kids English. Just as my great-grandfather didn't have the tools to teach my grandfather English. Taking YOUR Chinese example... if you moved to China this year and your second grader didn't speak Chinese... you "wouldn't have the tools" to teach him Chinese. (Mind you, I'm assuming you don't speak Chinese already... if that's incorrect then just switch it to some country whose language you don't speak and you get my drift)

Well, I guess it's time to take a ride down south then, eh? Again, how many of the total population of those you speak for would you guess is here ILLEGALLY where this language barrier is the product? You don't ahve to answer if it chaffes to do so.

Percentage of the parents or percentage of the students? I'd bet the vast majority of the students are attending school legally. What more do you need? If this is some problem you have with the children of illegal immigrants attending these schools in the first place... then go start a topic about it so I can come in there and spin wildly off-topic about it.

Anywhere they need cheap labor... there are immigrants both legal and illegal. That's the nature of capitalism. Just take a look into a Wyoming slaughterhouse if you don't believe me.

You SAY, eh? what, is that the new scientific standard? YOU say? Did Francic Bacon help you discover this new standard? I think letting these students learn in their NATIVE country with their NATIVE language will cost the taxpayer EVEN LESS! Again, why do the japanese get shafted when all they have to do is stay longer than their visa, spawn and anchor baby and then complain about not haing the resources to teach their kid ENGLISH?

I agree... we should be denying this country the cheap labor that comes with rampant immigration both legal and illegal. Then we can lower the cost of education and increase the cost of tomatoes! And, in the meantime, I can stop having to compete with all these H1-B visa holders!

Im saying that my knowledge of CHINESE history learned in AMERICA would not be as intensive as learning CHINESE history in CHINA from CHINESE TEXTS. Likewise, learning CHINESE where I am FORCED to use it would produce faster and better results than making excuses and learning CHINESE without stimuli that would prompt learning.

So? How "intensive" does a second grader's understanding of the American Revolution really need to be?

So, do you think you know MORE about GREEK hisotry than, say, a student in GREECE? Humor me and answer this.

I bet I know more about Greek history than a Greek second grader! And I definitely know more about Greek history than a Chinese student "in GREECE." And, I would venture a guess that there are lots people... in the world... who speak almost no English... who know more about American history than many, many good-ole, English-only Americans. One listen to Hannity's man on the street Friday or Leno's street quizzes should suffice as proof of that.

oh NOW I hate democracy! hehehehehe.. indeed, was this program voted IN by the people or by a school obard who will enjoy finding other hobbies come the end of their terms?

You think a curricula like this is just magically installed without the elected school board's consent? Yeah. I think it was voted in with their consent.

Yes, IM the one who is willing to ignore what the will of the people say.. hehehehe.. suuuuuure, dude. sure. Hell, Kansas eventually took care of their Int Des. voting school board members.. Too bad it took about 4 years to let the will of the people be heard, eh? In the meantime, it's not the latino popoulation paying for their lack of cultural participation..

Well, that's representative democracy for you... in the words of our President, "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier..."

Well, at least the LEGAL ones are. I guess we can find another anchor baby loophole to cram the rest in by the time the progeny of illegal mexicans start bitching about cuban immigration.

Who are you kidding? They'll be bitching about those damned Irish!

 

[Shogun]

"Well, uh, yes... you did. Maybe you didn't MEAN "born here"... but that's most assuredly what you said: "Tell me WHAT sample of the American population, born here, chooses not to learn english?""

ok, ill clarify then.. (BORN HERE + LEGAL Immigrants) = does not learn english? Hint, legal immigrants have to learn the language at least in order to function. Now, would you mind answering the question or should I take this as a check mate?



So, a kid who comes here in the second grade speaks English on the first day? That's just nonsense. We're talking about second graders who don't speak English yet. (As well as other ages... elementary school age)

hehehehe... No, we are talking about second graders who have a wroking handle on English versus those who, due to a larger issue, do not. And, yes, that kid who comes here in the second grade would be learning vocab in, say it with me, ENGLISH. Again, what shcool did you go to to learn spanish as your primary language in second grade?



Yeah, I know this might be hard for you to comprehend... but if you don't speak English... you pretty much don't have the tools to teach your kids English. Just as my great-grandfather didn't have the tools to teach my grandfather English. Taking YOUR Chinese example... if you moved to China this year and your second grader didn't speak Chinese... you "wouldn't have the tools" to teach him Chinese. (Mind you, I'm assuming you don't speak Chinese already... if that's incorrect then just switch it to some country whose language you don't speak and you get my drift)

Indeed, and if you dont speak english in 2007 in America there is a really good chance that it is because you or your parents came here ILLEGALLY. Did your grandfather come here LEGALLY? Indeed, I wouldnt have the tools to teach my kid chinese, AND, neither should I expect the chinese governemnt to pay for my kid to learn their native language. Of course, that's taking into consideration that Id be over there LEGALLY in the first place and not trying to disregard the laws of the very culture I was VISITING. But, this isnt about VISITING people, is it?



Percentage of the parents or percentage of the students? I'd bet the vast majority of the students are attending school legally. What more do you need? If this is some problem you have with the children of illegal immigrants attending these schools in the first place... then go start a topic about it so I can come in there and spin wildly off-topic about it.

YOUD BET? oh well. THATS settled. Ok, everyone go home! J-Dog made an assumption!

What more do I need? I need to to consider WHY there is as much of a language barrier in the first place before shelling out tax money for bullshit that reinforces the larger problem. Yes, I have a HUGE problem with illegal immigrants bankrupting recources collected for use on citizens with total disregard for the host nation. If you want to ignore the correlation and dont like my line of logic then, by all means, stop reading and replying to my posts.



Anywhere they need cheap labor... there are immigrants both legal and illegal. That's the nature of capitalism. Just take a look into a Wyoming slaughterhouse if you don't believe me.

So why play into that game if you are sure about it? Arent you simply rationalizing that same source of cheap labor? hell, spare me the history lesson, IVE read the motorcycle diares too. The need for cheap labor does not grant citizenship and it sure as hell doesn't validate the fracturing of or common culture for the sake of anchor babies.



I agree... we should be denying this country the cheap labor that comes with rampant immigration both legal and illegal. Then we can lower the cost of education and increase the cost of tomatoes! And, in the meantime, I can stop having to compete with all these H1-B visa holders!

I tellya.. when it comes to the reprocussions of a flood of illegal immigrants I really give a damn about the price of tomatoes.

Bottom line: If non english speaking people want to pay for these programs then let them and I wont care one way or the other. This is not the responsibility of the American taxpayer to provide ESL courses for latinos.



So? How "intensive" does a second grader's understanding of the American Revolution really need to be?

I guess that depends on if it's a mandarine chinese elementary school in BFE Indiana! Probably less imporatant than the ENGLISH vocab they would be learning.



I bet I know more about Greek history than a Greek second grader! And I definitely know more about Greek history than a Chinese student "in GREECE." And, I would venture a guess that there are lots people... in the world... who speak almost no English... who know more about American history than many, many good-ole, English-only Americans. One listen to Hannity's man on the street Friday or Leno's street quizzes should suffice as proof of that.


gimme a fucking break, dude. Just because you like all those neat stores about heroes and gods and monsters im betting it's a flat out lie that you you REALLY think you know more about Greek history than a local greek kid. Yea, I sure do bet that a non-english speaker, on average, knows more about America history than our average American.

sure, dude. sure. Do you think leno's all stars are the mean average American?



You think a curricula like this is just magically installed without the elected school board's consent? Yeah. I think it was voted in with their consent.

Like I said.. even Kansas was busy questioning evolution for a time... but hey, why care about tax money wasted when the people can have their say in up to 4 years?


Well, that's representative democracy for you... in the words of our President, "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier..."


Indeed, which of us really cared about what the population thinks about this again? Hiding behind school board terms and pretending that I hate democracy doesnt help your arguement, dude.


Who are you kidding? They'll be bitching about those damned Irish!

hehehe.. no, i guess is the cubans

 

[Cynic-American]

One listen to Hannity's man on the street Friday or Leno's street quizzes should suffice as proof of that.

Sad isn't it? Basic knowledge about American life and yet some Americans can not answer the questions.
They show photos of famous political figures and most get them wrong.
Shogun is a regular on the segment.

 

[Shogun]

Sad isn't it? Basic knowledge about American life and yet some Americans can not answer the questions.
They show photos of famous political figures and most get them wrong.
Shogun is a regular on the segment.

WOW!

a joke or two from the nose bleed section... say, you would probably be stupid enough to think that Jays all stars are the average american too.

hear that? I think it's the ICE CREAM MAN!

run.. Run.. RUUUNN! RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!

but don't forget to ask mommy for a dollar before you tear out.

 

[Cynic-American]

LOL, its too easy to bait him.

I bet he is kicking his dog knowing he can never win an argument with me.

 

[Shogun]

again, if you say so, pal.


say, werent you throwing a fit and threatening to put me on ignore this morning?


Just so you know, your crush will only end in heartache, dude.


for realz.

 

[jasendorf]

ok, ill clarify then..

Don't blame me for you not learning enough English to express yourself accurately and concisely... guess they should have taught English at whatever school YOU went to.

(BORN HERE + LEGAL Immigrants) = does not learn english? Hint, legal immigrants have to learn the language at least in order to function. Now, would you mind answering the question or should I take this as a check mate?

Does not learn eventually? Almost none. Does not learn English magically overnight without the help of... uh, schools... almost all.

No, we are talking about second graders who have a wroking handle on English versus those who, due to a larger issue, do not. And, yes, that kid who comes here in the second grade would be learning vocab in, say it with me, ENGLISH. Again, what shcool did you go to to learn spanish as your primary language in second grade?

Why do you have to keep making stuff up to make the situation match your ideology? They aren't LEARNING Spanish as their primary language... Spanish is ALREADY their language. They are learning MATH using Spanish as a tool to learn MATH. Why? Because they already speak Spanish. How f*ing hard is it for you to understand that? It's like you're completely incapable of reading the story and understanding its content. I think the reason you're so up in arms over this is because you think everyone should have to struggle with English like you did as a kid. I'm starting to think this is far more personal to you... did you fail English a lot in school? Is it that you think these kids should suffer like you? Bare your soul Shogun...

Indeed, and if you dont speak english in 2007 in America there is a really good chance that it is because you or your parents came here ILLEGALLY.

Dumbest statement ever.

Did your grandfather come here LEGALLY?

I would guess so, I don't have any reason to believe he didn't. (But that was at a time when you got off the boat, sign a 8x10 piece of paper that you wanted to be a citizen, went into another room and recited an oath of allegiance and poof you were a citizen.) Then guess what he did... imagine this... this might be difficult for you to believe or understand... but he, a German mind you, moved to Pennsylvania! Who'd have thought that a German would move to Pennsylvania where there were lots of German-Americans, German immigrants and German-speaking people?

Indeed, I wouldnt have the tools to teach my kid chinese, AND, neither should I expect the chinese governemnt to pay for my kid to learn their native language. Of course, that's taking into consideration that Id be over there LEGALLY in the first place and not trying to disregard the laws of the very culture I was VISITING. But, this isnt about VISITING people, is it?

So, if you took your family (immigrated) to China... you'd keep your kid out of school until they learned Chinese? That'd be your plan? That's just stupid.

YOUD BET? oh well. THATS settled. Ok, everyone go home! J-Dog made an assumption!

So, you have some sort of evidence to the contrary that they're not in school legally? Bring it. Nevermind... every time I ask you for some sort of evidence or even for you to simply state a contrary belief you ignore it... because you know that mockery without substance goes a long way in debate.

What more do I need? I need to to consider WHY there is as much of a language barrier in the first place before shelling out tax money for bullshit that reinforces the larger problem. Yes, I have a HUGE problem with illegal immigrants bankrupting recources collected for use on citizens with total disregard for the host nation. If you want to ignore the correlation and dont like my line of logic then, by all means, stop reading and replying to my posts.

1) You have ZERO proof these resources are being spent on illegal immigrants. Talk about someone "guessing"... you're the king of it. To believe your "line of logic" one has to believe that these kids are sneaking into school illegally without so much as a single teacher, administrator, school nurse or taxpayer noticing... that's your "logic."

2) You have ZERO proof the use of the resources is "bankrupting" anyone or anything. In addition, as the story points out, using these materials is cheaper than creating our own to accomplish the same goal.

3) The language barrier exists because it takes time to learn a language.

So why play into that game if you are sure about it? Arent you simply rationalizing that same source of cheap labor? hell, spare me the history lesson, IVE read the motorcycle diaries too. The need for cheap labor does not grant citizenship and it sure as hell doesn't validate the fracturing of or common culture for the sake of anchor babies.

If that were true, the Republicans would have done something about immigration and illegal immigration during their 6 years of complete control. The Republican Party refuses to fix and continues to block fixes to immigration in this country because they don't care about the "common culture" more than they care about supplying this country with cheap labor.

I tellya.. when it comes to the reprocussions of a flood of illegal immigrants I really give a damn about the price of tomatoes.

You'd whine like a baby if everything you like to eat and home prices shot up due to a crackdown on illegal immigrants... which is why the Republicans continue to block immigration reform.

Bottom line: If non english speaking people want to pay for these programs then let them and I wont care one way or the other. This is not the responsibility of the American taxpayer to provide ESL courses for latinos.

Your opinion. Vetoed by the voters who put this school board in place.

gimme a fucking break, dude. Just because you like all those neat stores about heroes and gods and monsters im betting it's a flat out lie that you you REALLY think you know more about Greek history than a local greek kid. Yea, I sure do bet that a non-english speaker, on average, knows more about America history than our average American.

I guess if you change what I say to something I didn't say... suddenly you have something to argue against. Nevermind that you're then arguing against yourself and not me anymore... Go back, read what I wrote, and respond to what I wrote... not what you wish I wrote. If I'm right... which you know I am which is why you had to change what I wrote into something you could say is wrong... then just say so and move on. No need to go arguing against yourself for paragraphs on end.

sure, dude. sure. Do you think leno's all stars are the mean average American?

Average? Yes.

Like I said.. even Kansas was busy questioning evolution for a time... but hey, why care about tax money wasted when the people can have their say in up to 4 years?

Once again, you have no proof that this is a waste. Why do you think educating children is a waste?

Indeed, which of us really cared about what the population thinks about this again? Hiding behind school board terms and pretending that I hate democracy doesnt help your arguement, dude.

The voters had their say, they'll have their say again... why do you keep insisting that the situation is any other way?

hehehe.. no, i guess is the cubans

Don't be silly, the Cubans are already here.

 

[Unkotare]

I was taught English. But I actually do know people whose children WERE taught Mandarin in elementary school. I always found it kind of silly. ...

What's "silly" about beginning foreign language study in earlier grades?

 

[Unkotare]

... Nor do I believe in ESL programs. ...

What is there to not "believe in"?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I personally believe it should be mandatory for all kids 1st through 8th grade to take Spanish and English in the USA and I am a fairly far right conservative