No they wouldn't....but feel free to keep up the Christian Lying Front.
Your reply doesn't make a bit of sense.
They wouldn't what? Immto stated that the government could make a law converting all marriages to civil unions and that would allow the church to decide what and whom they would marry. Are you saying that the church would not decide whom to marry?
I'm saying they will never reverse the legal term of Marriage to Civil Unions. There is an attempt to do it here in CA, and I am supportive of it. But it will never happen in real life....why? Because the complaint by the anti-gay marriage crowd about the term "marriage" is a red herring. They don't want us to have civil unions either.
I happen to be one of those "they"'s and I disagree with you here. Why do I disagree? Because just as I believe that most gay people are willing to accept the "Civil Union" compromise, I believe that most Christians (and I am one of those) know in their hearts that God loves gay people too. And then we have the non-practicing Christian, the people who although they believe in Christ don't generally go to church or may not be religious at all. I believe that most people whether they are gay or Christian or somewhere in between believe that it is wrong for the government to choose sides in this issue. I believe that in the long run, civil unions will become a fact whether the church accepts it or not. You seem to think that if the church says no, then no it is especially among Christians. Well, ask how many Catholics use birth control and that should clear up that fallacy.
When you get right down to it, most of us hated Christians are not hateful of most gays. We may not appreciate the activists, (I must admit extremism turns my stomach) but we don't hate our sons and daughters, our neighbors, our friends, our fathers and mothers, aunts and uncles that are gay. We may not agree with the lifestyle, and maybe some of us fear it, but we do not hate the people that we know who happen to be gay.
Will the institution that is the church ever change its attitude towards homosexuality? I don't know the answer to that. But, I would hope that it would start practicing what it preaches... love the sinner, hate the sin.
And I hope they would be 100 times LESS successful than the church has been in FORCING us to abide legally by their perceptions of marriage.
You lost me here again. Who are they and less successful at what?
It is the gay community that is fighting to change things. It is the gay community that is pressing the issues at hand. It is the Religious Right that is fighting to prevent gay marriage in any manner. Surely you don't hope the gay community is less successful at bringing about civil unions, since you support the idea, than the church has been in forcing you to abide by their perceptions of marriage?
by Immanuel, History backs me on this too. I think it was you that brought up interracial marriage earlier. At one time interracial marriages were considered taboo and now they are accepted. Also, fifty years ago we were engaged in a struggle for racial equality and activists fought for that equality and won at least major steps towards equality.
Someday, I believe that our children will look at our history in much the same light as we look at the civil rights movement and wonder WTF was the big deal. Because we as a people are becoming accustomed to the idea of homosexuality just as we have become accustomed to hearing the F word on tv. When I was a kid, "shit" and "damn" and I think even "hell" were forbidden on the airwaves... not anymore.
by Immanuel, Will activists succeed in bringing gay marriage all the way to the altar of Catholic Churches nationwide? I don't know if they will be successful or not, but I fully expect that they will try. I'm not so sure that they shouldn't try. As I said in a reply to Curvelight, the church needs to think about its response to the homosexual community. I don't believe the church should come out and declare homosexuality not to be a sin, but I do think that the church needs to decide whether or not it truly believes that God's Grace is available to all sinners including homosexuals or not.
Immie
No one has the right to force the church to accept anything....just like some churchs still don't accept interracial marriage and most don't like and not accept interfaith marriages.
On this we agree, but that wont stop the extremists. There will be some who will not accept a compromise. They will stop at nothing less than complete and total victory. That is all I have said throughout this discussion.
You are right, no one has the right to force the church to accept anything, at least not as things stand in America today. However, our freedoms are under attack. Our freedom of speech! Our freedom of religious choice or the freedom to choose no religion at all! Our freedom to peacefully assemble! Our freedom to carry weapons! Our freedom to speak to those whom we care to speak to in other countries without having our conversations listened in to! Our freedom to smoke! Our freedom to drive without seat belts! Our freedom to ride motorcycles without helmets! Our freedom to eat fattening foods for crying out loud! All these things and more are under attack by an over zealous government that thinks it knows better than we, what we want or should do. Let me be clear I am not attacking either party with this paragraph, I am attacking both!
With those freedoms at risk who knows what may happen in the future? Whose freedoms will be removed next? Christians? Gays? Mothers? Muslims? Soldiers? Veterans? The elderly? The sick? The crippled? The rich? The poor? Middle Class? Workers? Employers? Teens?... oh wait, they don't have any rights. Who's rights are at risk tomorrow?
The politicians have us right where they want us... fighting each other rather than uniting together and putting them in their place. We're complacent in our own downfall.
/end of sermon
Immie
