Socialism is evil

[sangha]

They are the one in the same. You Depends sniffing rump wrangler.

No, universal means that everyone is covered. Single payer means the govt pays for it.

Try again. This time, try to not make stuff up

Umm ....there is only one possible provider of universal care...The federal government..Jesus Christ.
Are you really going to sit there and try to convey some nonsense of the private market offering universal care? Really?

If tins didn't lie, he'd have nothing to say

Both the Netherelands and Switzerland have universal health care provided by private, for-profit insurance corps

Universal health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sallow]

Not sure what this means either..but what we have a blended economy. Been that way since the beginning.

When government discovers a deficit in a needful service..it takes over.

Simple as that.

That's socialism.

No, it isn't.

That's a government providing services.

You or I might object and think that those services aren't needed, but that does not mean the government is socialist.

Socialism is the owership and control of a society's means of production by the central government.

Social services are NOT a means of production.

Yeah..it is socialism. The very idea of government doing anything..is socialism.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Socialist dream isn't 14 Trillion in debt and sucking it's citizens into a black hole. The socialist dream doesn't have 4000 dead US Troops, 10000 more maimed with no faces, arms or legs for WMDs. It doesn't have half it's citizens in military uniform stationed all over the globe, torturing, murdering and raping innocent detained and chained women and children for corporations.

No, people work 32 hour weeks and pay the same rate of taxes as Americans, except the socialists get all the benefits and the capitalists in their utopia get nothing.

ANd who is it that got us the 14 trillion in debt.....The Socialist Obama.....
Half of all Americans are in the military? Ok prove that one....
Yes, our military personnel are in the business of raping torturing and the rest. That's all they do,.....You're ******* hysterical making these crazy accusations. You have no argument in logical support of your ideology so you resort to making wild baseless accusations.
32 hour work weeks? Where? France? Who cares. Nothing gets done in Western Europe. These people don't do any work. Their work weeks are too short . Everyone is so busy with their hand stuck put looking for government goodies.
And please ..about the taxes on Euros. You fuckin lefties keep changing your minds about that bullshit. In one thread you ***** and moan that we don't pay enough while the Euros pay much higher taxes then in another thread you claim their taxes are the same as ours. At least if you people are going to make up shit, try being consistent.
You lefties are beating the proverbial dead horse. You will NOT get your precious socialism here. Forget it. It's not happening.

Oh, Bullshit, Obama has been bailing Bush out.
Half military is just a jab of resentment
Rape, torture & murder is all true, not even an accusation
Germany has 32 hour weeks, but you don't care, you want 90 hour weeks to make ends meet in America.
And the goodie hand is always full for all of the socialist people, but not for the few & you. Why is that? Shouldn't you have twice as many paid holidays, a mandatory 45 day vacation, free cable TV, 200+ super highways & bullet trains? No, capitalists are taught to go without, you don't need them, your afraid to ask for them, or the thought never crosses your mind. Free Health Care while you pay for your own. Full wage retirements, while you scrimp & save all your life, worry about retiring or find that you can't retire. And instead of more wages & benefits going to your family, some capitalist who have never hit a lick or even knows where you slave daily, is raking off the profits for himself at the stock market.
You are overtaxed, underpaid, intimidated, and barely hanging on. You even hate people who make living wages & benefits. You don't even own your own house, and have to pay taxes on it all your life just to have a roof. Poor man, I really feel sorry for Americans. If there is a way to **** you, the capitalist has done it.

Obama has been bailing out Bush....Ok, that's a crock. Can't use that nonsense anymore..BTW, Bush was one the largest spenders on social programs in the history of the US.
Yep, you have ZERO respect for our military. Yes the military that provides you with the freedom to do as you wish. Yet you have the gall to question the manner in which that freedom is provided. Typical lib. You question everything and stand for nothing.
Who said anything about 90 hour work weeks? Once again, the lefty all or nothing straw man argument. Crap.
32 hour weeks....what a bunch of pansies. Productivity in Europe is no match for the US and Asia. Nothing gets done in Europe. That's why the EU is broke.
Government has no business mandating the length of vacations. 45 days is insane. That's 9 weeks. No way. To have to pay people 9 weeks to do nothing is unaffordable. No business, especially small business could survive without government subsidies. And that takes...higher taxes. No thanks.
Your problem is that you believe our money is your money. That the earnings and assets should be communal. These to be surrendered to government to do with as they wish.
That is not compatible with freedom nor is it compatible with our representative republic.
Socialism is a curse. A pox. It cannot function in a mixed system where few row the boat while the remainder sit in the boat. Eventually the one's who row are so outnumbered by the passengers, the system collapses. Strife ensues as the elite ruling class struggles to maintain control. The EU is a perfect example. Rampant unemployment among the young who wait for jobs while the system protects even the most unproductive workers.
The expense of the EU's social safety nets has caused Greece, Spain and Portugal's economies to nearly collapse. All other EU nations plus the UK are rolling out austerity programs to cut back on expenses that are driving these countries to the brink of bankruptcy.
Free cable. Free trains free this free that...Newsflash.....There is NO FREE..everything comes with a price. If provided b y government, the citizens are taxed to fund the subsidy.
No thanks. We have a national rail system funded by taxes. It's a disaster. Inefficient and expensive. Saddled with high labor costs bolstered by a powerful union, AMTRAK is a huge waste of money. If any part of AMTRAK that works reasonably well, it is the Northeast Corridor "Acela" system. 3 hrs non-stop from NYC to Boston or Washington. As for the rest of it, junk. De-fund it. Privatize it. Dump the union.
All thr wonderful things you say the Euros have are unsustainable. There are not enough people paying the taxes to support the goodies. No one deserves these things anyway.
Who the hell said or made up the notion that such luxuries should be entitlements?
This is moot. There will be no European style socialism here.
Wish in one hand and shit in the other. See what you get first......

 

[sangha]

That's socialism.

No, it isn't.

That's a government providing services.

You or I might object and think that those services aren't needed, but that does not mean the government is socialist.

Socialism is the owership and control of a society's means of production by the central government.

Social services are NOT a means of production.

Yeah..it is socialism. The very idea of government doing anything..is socialism.

Of course it's socialism. Whenever the govt provides services to the people it's socialism

Govt ownership of the means of production is a form of COMMUNISM.

 

[sangha]

ANd who is it that got us the 14 trillion in debt.....The Socialist Obama.....
Half of all Americans are in the military? Ok prove that one....
Yes, our military personnel are in the business of raping torturing and the rest. That's all they do,.....You're ******* hysterical making these crazy accusations. You have no argument in logical support of your ideology so you resort to making wild baseless accusations.
32 hour work weeks? Where? France? Who cares. Nothing gets done in Western Europe. These people don't do any work. Their work weeks are too short . Everyone is so busy with their hand stuck put looking for government goodies.
And please ..about the taxes on Euros. You fuckin lefties keep changing your minds about that bullshit. In one thread you ***** and moan that we don't pay enough while the Euros pay much higher taxes then in another thread you claim their taxes are the same as ours. At least if you people are going to make up shit, try being consistent.
You lefties are beating the proverbial dead horse. You will NOT get your precious socialism here. Forget it. It's not happening.

Oh, Bullshit, Obama has been bailing Bush out.
Half military is just a jab of resentment
Rape, torture & murder is all true, not even an accusation
Germany has 32 hour weeks, but you don't care, you want 90 hour weeks to make ends meet in America.
And the goodie hand is always full for all of the socialist people, but not for the few & you. Why is that? Shouldn't you have twice as many paid holidays, a mandatory 45 day vacation, free cable TV, 200+ super highways & bullet trains? No, capitalists are taught to go without, you don't need them, your afraid to ask for them, or the thought never crosses your mind. Free Health Care while you pay for your own. Full wage retirements, while you scrimp & save all your life, worry about retiring or find that you can't retire. And instead of more wages & benefits going to your family, some capitalist who have never hit a lick or even knows where you slave daily, is raking off the profits for himself at the stock market.
You are overtaxed, underpaid, intimidated, and barely hanging on. You even hate people who make living wages & benefits. You don't even own your own house, and have to pay taxes on it all your life just to have a roof. Poor man, I really feel sorry for Americans. If there is a way to **** you, the capitalist has done it.

Obama has been bailing out Bush....Ok, that's a crock. Can't use that nonsense anymore..BTW, Bush was one the largest spenders on social programs in the history of the US.
Yep, you have ZERO respect for our military. Yes the military that provides you with the freedom to do as you wish. Yet you have the gall to question the manner in which that freedom is provided. Typical lib. You question everything and stand for nothing.
Who said anything about 90 hour work weeks? Once again, the lefty all or nothing straw man argument. Crap.
32 hour weeks....what a bunch of pansies. Productivity in Europe is no match for the US and Asia. Nothing gets done in Europe. That's why the EU is broke.
Government has no business mandating the length of vacations. 45 days is insane. That's 9 weeks. No way. To have to pay people 9 weeks to do nothing is unaffordable. No business, especially small business could survive without government subsidies. And that takes...higher taxes. No thanks.
Your problem is that you believe our money is your money. That the earnings and assets should be communal. These to be surrendered to government to do with as they wish.
That is not compatible with freedom nor is it compatible with our representative republic.
Socialism is a curse. A pox. It cannot function in a mixed system where few row the boat while the remainder sit in the boat. Eventually the one's who row are so outnumbered by the passengers, the system collapses. Strife ensues as the elite ruling class struggles to maintain control. The EU is a perfect example. Rampant unemployment among the young who wait for jobs while the system protects even the most unproductive workers.
The expense of the EU's social safety nets has caused Greece, Spain and Portugal's economies to nearly collapse. All other EU nations plus the UK are rolling out austerity programs to cut back on expenses that are driving these countries to the brink of bankruptcy.
Free cable. Free trains free this free that...Newsflash.....There is NO FREE..everything comes with a price. If provided b y government, the citizens are taxed to fund the subsidy.
No thanks. We have a national rail system funded by taxes. It's a disaster. Inefficient and expensive. Saddled with high labor costs bolstered by a powerful union, AMTRAK is a huge waste of money. If any part of AMTRAK that works reasonably well, it is the Northeast Corridor "Acela" system. 3 hrs non-stop from NYC to Boston or Washington. As for the rest of it, junk. De-fund it. Privatize it. Dump the union.
All thr wonderful things you say the Euros have are unsustainable. There are not enough people paying the taxes to support the goodies. No one deserves these things anyway.
Who the hell said or made up the notion that such luxuries should be entitlements?
This is moot. There will be no European style socialism here.
Wish in one hand and shit in the other. See what you get first......

If tins didn't lie, he'd have nothing to say

Here's a chart that makes clear that it was bsuh* who almost doubled the national debt
And 3/4 of our debt was accumulated under three presidents - Reagan, GHWB and bush*

 

[thereisnospoon]

No, universal means that everyone is covered. Single payer means the govt pays for it.

Try again. This time, try to not make stuff up

Umm ....there is only one possible provider of universal care...The federal government..Jesus Christ.
Are you really going to sit there and try to convey some nonsense of the private market offering universal care? Really?

If tins didn't lie, he'd have nothing to say

Both the Netherelands and Switzerland have universal health care provided by private, for-profit insurance corps

Universal health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Holy shit....Holland and Switzerland have the population of New York for Christ's sake.
What are you talking about? I'm not going to dignify that comparison with a response because it's so ridiculous, it doesn't deserve one....
wondering how you would build such a utopia in the first place....
Do you really think the federal government can simply wave a magic wand and your utopia will show up overnight?
How do you propose the government go about confiscating from the private sector the revenue needed to provide the social safety net you wish for?
Do you really think we the people will meekly acquiesce to the demands of government and hand over their net worth and private property? Do you really think we will simply allow the US Constitution to be ignored and then abolished?
You need a reality check there, sunshine.

 

[sangha]

Umm ....there is only one possible provider of universal care...The federal government..Jesus Christ.
Are you really going to sit there and try to convey some nonsense of the private market offering universal care? Really?

If tins didn't lie, he'd have nothing to say

Both the Netherelands and Switzerland have universal health care provided by private, for-profit insurance corps

Universal health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Holy shit....Holland and Switzerland have the population of New York for Christ's sake.
What are you talking about? I'm not going to dignify that comparison with a response because it's so ridiculous, it doesn't deserve one....
wondering how you would build such a utopia in the first place....
Do you really think the federal government can simply wave a magic wand and your utopia will show up overnight?
How do you propose the government go about confiscating from the private sector the revenue needed to provide the social safety net you wish for?
Do you really think we the people will meekly acquiesce to the demands of government and hand over their net worth and private property? Do you really think we will simply allow the US Constitution to be ignored and then abolished?
You need a reality check there, sunshine.

If tins didn't lie, he'd have nothing to say

tins doesn't have the honesty to admit that he was wrong to say that Universal coverage is always provided by a federal govt, so he's going to pretend he said something about the population of the US and that I said something about magic wands.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Oh, Bullshit, Obama has been bailing Bush out.
Half military is just a jab of resentment
Rape, torture & murder is all true, not even an accusation
Germany has 32 hour weeks, but you don't care, you want 90 hour weeks to make ends meet in America.
And the goodie hand is always full for all of the socialist people, but not for the few & you. Why is that? Shouldn't you have twice as many paid holidays, a mandatory 45 day vacation, free cable TV, 200+ super highways & bullet trains? No, capitalists are taught to go without, you don't need them, your afraid to ask for them, or the thought never crosses your mind. Free Health Care while you pay for your own. Full wage retirements, while you scrimp & save all your life, worry about retiring or find that you can't retire. And instead of more wages & benefits going to your family, some capitalist who have never hit a lick or even knows where you slave daily, is raking off the profits for himself at the stock market.
You are overtaxed, underpaid, intimidated, and barely hanging on. You even hate people who make living wages & benefits. You don't even own your own house, and have to pay taxes on it all your life just to have a roof. Poor man, I really feel sorry for Americans. If there is a way to **** you, the capitalist has done it.

Obama has been bailing out Bush....Ok, that's a crock. Can't use that nonsense anymore..BTW, Bush was one the largest spenders on social programs in the history of the US.
Yep, you have ZERO respect for our military. Yes the military that provides you with the freedom to do as you wish. Yet you have the gall to question the manner in which that freedom is provided. Typical lib. You question everything and stand for nothing.
Who said anything about 90 hour work weeks? Once again, the lefty all or nothing straw man argument. Crap.
32 hour weeks....what a bunch of pansies. Productivity in Europe is no match for the US and Asia. Nothing gets done in Europe. That's why the EU is broke.
Government has no business mandating the length of vacations. 45 days is insane. That's 9 weeks. No way. To have to pay people 9 weeks to do nothing is unaffordable. No business, especially small business could survive without government subsidies. And that takes...higher taxes. No thanks.
Your problem is that you believe our money is your money. That the earnings and assets should be communal. These to be surrendered to government to do with as they wish.
That is not compatible with freedom nor is it compatible with our representative republic.
Socialism is a curse. A pox. It cannot function in a mixed system where few row the boat while the remainder sit in the boat. Eventually the one's who row are so outnumbered by the passengers, the system collapses. Strife ensues as the elite ruling class struggles to maintain control. The EU is a perfect example. Rampant unemployment among the young who wait for jobs while the system protects even the most unproductive workers.
The expense of the EU's social safety nets has caused Greece, Spain and Portugal's economies to nearly collapse. All other EU nations plus the UK are rolling out austerity programs to cut back on expenses that are driving these countries to the brink of bankruptcy.
Free cable. Free trains free this free that...Newsflash.....There is NO FREE..everything comes with a price. If provided b y government, the citizens are taxed to fund the subsidy.
No thanks. We have a national rail system funded by taxes. It's a disaster. Inefficient and expensive. Saddled with high labor costs bolstered by a powerful union, AMTRAK is a huge waste of money. If any part of AMTRAK that works reasonably well, it is the Northeast Corridor "Acela" system. 3 hrs non-stop from NYC to Boston or Washington. As for the rest of it, junk. De-fund it. Privatize it. Dump the union.
All thr wonderful things you say the Euros have are unsustainable. There are not enough people paying the taxes to support the goodies. No one deserves these things anyway.
Who the hell said or made up the notion that such luxuries should be entitlements?
This is moot. There will be no European style socialism here.
Wish in one hand and shit in the other. See what you get first......

If tins didn't lie, he'd have nothing to say

Here's a chart that makes clear that it was bsuh* who almost doubled the national debt
And 3/4 of our debt was accumulated under three presidents - Reagan, GHWB and bush*

Right.....and Obama is the fiscal shepherd of our economy....Sure.
How about you go ahead and admit that Obama has created more deficit and debt than all other US Presidents combined. Because that is a fact.
Now you will go back to "he's bailing out Bush"....
Bullshit.. Once again, in Bush's 8 years he spent more on social programs than any other president before him.
Social spending.....The base of the liberal platform. If you think Bush governed conservatively , you're nuts.
"ksvoboda.com"?...What the **** is that....Go find a link from whitehouse.org or one of the other federal websites and then post the deficits from the OFFICIAL source of federal spending.....

 

[rikules]

Socialism is evil

Walter E. Williams


What is socialism? We miss the boat if we say it's the agenda of left-wingers and Democrats. According to Marxist doctrine, socialism is a stage of society between capitalism and communism where private ownership and control over property are eliminated. The essence of socialism is the attenuation and ultimate abolition of private property rights. Attacks on private property include, but are not limited to, confiscating the rightful property of one person and giving it to another to whom it doesn't belong. When this is done privately, we call it theft. When it's done collectively, we use euphemisms: income transfers or redistribution. It's not just left-wingers and Democrats who call for and admire socialism but right-wingers and Republicans as well.

Republicans and right-wingers support taking the earnings of one American and giving them to farmers, banks, airlines and other failing businesses. Democrats and left-wingers support taking the earnings of one American and giving them to poor people, cities and artists. Both agree on taking one American's earnings to give to another; they simply differ on the recipients. This kind of congressional activity constitutes at least two-thirds of the federal budget.

Regardless of the purpose, such behavior is immoral. It's a reduced form of slavery. After all, what is the essence of slavery? It's the forceful use of one person to serve the purposes of another person. When Congress, through the tax code, takes the earnings of one person and turns around to give it to another person in the forms of prescription drugs, Social Security, food stamps, farm subsidies or airline bailouts, it is forcibly using one person to serve the purposes of another.

The moral question stands out in starker relief when we acknowledge that those spending programs coming out of Congress do not represent lawmakers reaching into their own pockets and sending out the money. Moreover, there's no tooth fairy or Santa Claus giving them the money. The fact that government has no resources of its very own forces us to acknowledge that the only way government can give one American a dollar is to first -- through intimidation, threats and coercion -- take that dollar from some other American.

Some might rejoin that all of this is a result of a democratic process and it's legal. Legality alone is no guide for a moral people. There are many things in this world that have been, or are, legal but clearly immoral. Slavery was legal. Did that make it moral? South Africa's apartheid, Nazi persecution of Jews, and Stalinist and Maoist purges were all legal, but did that make them moral?

Can a moral case be made for taking the rightful property of one American and giving it to another to whom it does not belong? I think not. That's why socialism is evil. It uses evil means (coercion) to achieve what are seen as good ends (helping people). We might also note that an act that is inherently evil does not become moral simply because there's a majority consensus.




Socialism is evil

people without jobs (as CEO's and the generals of capitalism move those jobs overseas)
should just shut up and die!

any governmental attempts to help them would be SOCIALISM!

and socialism is EVIL

unlike unfettered capitalism
which takes jobs away from Americans
and leaves them to die
which is GOOD!

 

[MikeK]

The US is a socialist nation

We have a socialist retirement system (Social Security), health care (Medicare, Medicaid, and now Obamcare), military, fire depts, police dept, socialized supply of food, water, and electricity, socialized communications systems (telephone, cable, tv, internet), weather service, socialist transportation systems (roads and highways, Amtrack, airports and air traffic controllers) and on and on

We also have a solialist tax system (ie a progressive income tax)

Wingnuts hate the US so much they call it "evil"

You left out the part about how the U.S. acquires and manages its wealth. The fact is the U.S. is a fundamentally capitalist nation which has adopted certain socialist policies for the purpose of maintaining the common good and controlling the murderous greed which is an inherent component of capitalism.

Evidence of capitalist dominance of the U.S. is the existence and function of Wall Street, an exceptionally powerful, corrupt and usurious banking industry and a tiny group of super-rich individuals who control over 40% of the Nation's wealth and impart a powerful influence over the government via a tolerated system of bribery called PACs.

Does that sound like Socialism to you? If America were a truly socialist nation its wealthy oligarchs would be stood against a wall and shot.

 

[thereisnospoon]

If tins didn't lie, he'd have nothing to say

Both the Netherelands and Switzerland have universal health care provided by private, for-profit insurance corps

Universal health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Holy shit....Holland and Switzerland have the population of New York for Christ's sake.
What are you talking about? I'm not going to dignify that comparison with a response because it's so ridiculous, it doesn't deserve one....
wondering how you would build such a utopia in the first place....
Do you really think the federal government can simply wave a magic wand and your utopia will show up overnight?
How do you propose the government go about confiscating from the private sector the revenue needed to provide the social safety net you wish for?
Do you really think we the people will meekly acquiesce to the demands of government and hand over their net worth and private property? Do you really think we will simply allow the US Constitution to be ignored and then abolished?
You need a reality check there, sunshine.

If tins didn't lie, he'd have nothing to say

tins doesn't have the honesty to admit that he was wrong to say that Universal coverage is always provided by a federal govt, so he's going to pretend he said something about the population of the US and that I said something about magic wands.

You libbies are long on ideas and very short on implementation.
You shout loudly your demands. And are silent on how those demands will be met.
"Just do it and satisfy my wants", you say....
It's your turn to pay the piper. Bring to the table your methods and procedures to change our system to a socialist utopia...
I am no longer going to respond to what you believe should occur. I want to know how you propose this will be done.
Have at it.

 

[sangha]

Obama has been bailing out Bush....Ok, that's a crock. Can't use that nonsense anymore..BTW, Bush was one the largest spenders on social programs in the history of the US.
Yep, you have ZERO respect for our military. Yes the military that provides you with the freedom to do as you wish. Yet you have the gall to question the manner in which that freedom is provided. Typical lib. You question everything and stand for nothing.
Who said anything about 90 hour work weeks? Once again, the lefty all or nothing straw man argument. Crap.
32 hour weeks....what a bunch of pansies. Productivity in Europe is no match for the US and Asia. Nothing gets done in Europe. That's why the EU is broke.
Government has no business mandating the length of vacations. 45 days is insane. That's 9 weeks. No way. To have to pay people 9 weeks to do nothing is unaffordable. No business, especially small business could survive without government subsidies. And that takes...higher taxes. No thanks.
Your problem is that you believe our money is your money. That the earnings and assets should be communal. These to be surrendered to government to do with as they wish.
That is not compatible with freedom nor is it compatible with our representative republic.
Socialism is a curse. A pox. It cannot function in a mixed system where few row the boat while the remainder sit in the boat. Eventually the one's who row are so outnumbered by the passengers, the system collapses. Strife ensues as the elite ruling class struggles to maintain control. The EU is a perfect example. Rampant unemployment among the young who wait for jobs while the system protects even the most unproductive workers.
The expense of the EU's social safety nets has caused Greece, Spain and Portugal's economies to nearly collapse. All other EU nations plus the UK are rolling out austerity programs to cut back on expenses that are driving these countries to the brink of bankruptcy.
Free cable. Free trains free this free that...Newsflash.....There is NO FREE..everything comes with a price. If provided b y government, the citizens are taxed to fund the subsidy.
No thanks. We have a national rail system funded by taxes. It's a disaster. Inefficient and expensive. Saddled with high labor costs bolstered by a powerful union, AMTRAK is a huge waste of money. If any part of AMTRAK that works reasonably well, it is the Northeast Corridor "Acela" system. 3 hrs non-stop from NYC to Boston or Washington. As for the rest of it, junk. De-fund it. Privatize it. Dump the union.
All thr wonderful things you say the Euros have are unsustainable. There are not enough people paying the taxes to support the goodies. No one deserves these things anyway.
Who the hell said or made up the notion that such luxuries should be entitlements?
This is moot. There will be no European style socialism here.
Wish in one hand and shit in the other. See what you get first......

If tins didn't lie, he'd have nothing to say

Here's a chart that makes clear that it was bsuh* who almost doubled the national debt
And 3/4 of our debt was accumulated under three presidents - Reagan, GHWB and bush*

Right.....and Obama is the fiscal shepherd of our economy....Sure.
How about you go ahead and admit that Obama has created more deficit and debt than all other US Presidents combined. Because that is a fact.

Proof that not only are wingnuts incapable of understanding #'s, they are also incapable of understanding pictures

 

[thereisnospoon]

Socialism is evil

Walter E. Williams


What is socialism? We miss the boat if we say it's the agenda of left-wingers and Democrats. According to Marxist doctrine, socialism is a stage of society between capitalism and communism where private ownership and control over property are eliminated. The essence of socialism is the attenuation and ultimate abolition of private property rights. Attacks on private property include, but are not limited to, confiscating the rightful property of one person and giving it to another to whom it doesn't belong. When this is done privately, we call it theft. When it's done collectively, we use euphemisms: income transfers or redistribution. It's not just left-wingers and Democrats who call for and admire socialism but right-wingers and Republicans as well.

Republicans and right-wingers support taking the earnings of one American and giving them to farmers, banks, airlines and other failing businesses. Democrats and left-wingers support taking the earnings of one American and giving them to poor people, cities and artists. Both agree on taking one American's earnings to give to another; they simply differ on the recipients. This kind of congressional activity constitutes at least two-thirds of the federal budget.

Regardless of the purpose, such behavior is immoral. It's a reduced form of slavery. After all, what is the essence of slavery? It's the forceful use of one person to serve the purposes of another person. When Congress, through the tax code, takes the earnings of one person and turns around to give it to another person in the forms of prescription drugs, Social Security, food stamps, farm subsidies or airline bailouts, it is forcibly using one person to serve the purposes of another.

The moral question stands out in starker relief when we acknowledge that those spending programs coming out of Congress do not represent lawmakers reaching into their own pockets and sending out the money. Moreover, there's no tooth fairy or Santa Claus giving them the money. The fact that government has no resources of its very own forces us to acknowledge that the only way government can give one American a dollar is to first -- through intimidation, threats and coercion -- take that dollar from some other American.

Some might rejoin that all of this is a result of a democratic process and it's legal. Legality alone is no guide for a moral people. There are many things in this world that have been, or are, legal but clearly immoral. Slavery was legal. Did that make it moral? South Africa's apartheid, Nazi persecution of Jews, and Stalinist and Maoist purges were all legal, but did that make them moral?

Can a moral case be made for taking the rightful property of one American and giving it to another to whom it does not belong? I think not. That's why socialism is evil. It uses evil means (coercion) to achieve what are seen as good ends (helping people). We might also note that an act that is inherently evil does not become moral simply because there's a majority consensus.




Socialism is evil

people without jobs (as CEO's and the generals of capitalism move those jobs overseas)
should just shut up and die!

any governmental attempts to help them would be SOCIALISM!

and socialism is EVIL

unlike unfettered capitalism
which takes jobs away from Americans
and leaves them to die
which is GOOD!

we do not have unfettered capitalism In fact our economy is heavily regulated by the federal government. So much so that the federal government is in large part responsible for manufacturing by US companies to be done in other countries.
Would it interest an of liberals that here in the US we have the highest corporate tax (35%) in the industrialized world? No of course not....I suppose you are unaware that some countries in an attempt to entice businesses to relocate and existing business to stay, are lowering their corporate tax rates....Gee ,what a novel idea!!!!

 

[shintao]

and poor people with no individual rights are a by-product of a well functioning Socialist economy

Do you really believe all Cubans are equal?
Do you really believe that in Socialism you and political leaders will have the same doctor?



Socialism only guarantees to spread misery equally (except for inner party members and their associates)



The only system that exist to create the most wealth for the most people is the free market




To be fair, most in the US do not understand the means- they just want the stated goals.

For the ones that do understand and still want socialism's goals but not necessarily full blown socialism,
they believe that they can limit and control the power of the state to not over ride individual rights

Yeah good luck with that one....


For the rest who want the goals but do not understand the means, I dare say a lot of them would be more apprehensive if they understood the means better.

Really when does it stop

What limits do you want to impose?
How much of the economy should the gov't run, 20 30 70 100 percent?



What limits do you want on individual rights?

Please tell us about this dream utopia that you want
Sure, it sounds good to say "I care" but have you really thought it out?

or you haven't thought it out this far?

Socialist dream isn't 14 Trillion in debt and sucking it's citizens into a black hole. The socialist dream doesn't have 4000 dead US Troops, 10000 more maimed with no faces, arms or legs for WMDs. It doesn't have half it's citizens in military uniform stationed all over the globe, torturing, murdering and raping innocent detained and chained women and children for corporations.

No, people work 32 hour weeks and pay the same rate of taxes as Americans, except the socialists get all the benefits and the capitalists in their utopia get nothing.

Italy, Spain and Greece are socialist and in Debt worse than US as percentage of GDP
As for death, well that could be another whole thread; but, more people (millions more) have been killed
under the name of "Socialism" than any other form of gov't. Stalin's gov't killed more people than Hitler's govt; of course,
something tells me you would not know that fact or understand the real means to achieve a "socialist utopia"

Moody's just warned that the US could lose its AAA rating at the rate we are going.


Again,

How would this utopia of yours work?
You can't answer because you have no idea

You just know you want what you believe will be the results.


Sacrifice, confiscating one's property, taking away of individual rights in Socialism is always easier in theory, discussing it and when it is not yours.

So again, what are the means to get to this utopia?

The means to a socialist utopia are the gradual wearing down of the failing capitalist system. No revolution is necessary to meet my utopian dream. Just ongoing legislation.

America has done it's share of blood letting, so I see no pint to be gained by socialism or religion as far as that goes.

 

[Sallow]

Umm ....there is only one possible provider of universal care...The federal government..Jesus Christ.
Are you really going to sit there and try to convey some nonsense of the private market offering universal care? Really?

If tins didn't lie, he'd have nothing to say

Both the Netherelands and Switzerland have universal health care provided by private, for-profit insurance corps

Universal health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Holy shit....Holland and Switzerland have the population of New York for Christ's sake.
What are you talking about? I'm not going to dignify that comparison with a response because it's so ridiculous, it doesn't deserve one....
wondering how you would build such a utopia in the first place....
Do you really think the federal government can simply wave a magic wand and your utopia will show up overnight?
How do you propose the government go about confiscating from the private sector the revenue needed to provide the social safety net you wish for?
Do you really think we the people will meekly acquiesce to the demands of government and hand over their net worth and private property? Do you really think we will simply allow the US Constitution to be ignored and then abolished?
You need a reality check there, sunshine.

Oh..really.

What part of the United States Constitution is being ignored? You might be thinking of the "Articles of Confederation" in which case you'd be right.

It's ignored..and rightly so.

 

[MikeK]

Karl Marx (who have heard of him -right)

Said that Socialism is the transitional stage required to get to Communism.

[...]

And Mussolini demonstrated how capitalism is a transitional stage in the slide toward fascism.

Take your pick.

 

[shintao]

Socialism is evil

Walter E. Williams


What is socialism? We miss the boat if we say it's the agenda of left-wingers and Democrats. According to Marxist doctrine, socialism is a stage of society between capitalism and communism where private ownership and control over property are eliminated. The essence of socialism is the attenuation and ultimate abolition of private property rights. Attacks on private property include, but are not limited to, confiscating the rightful property of one person and giving it to another to whom it doesn't belong. When this is done privately, we call it theft. When it's done collectively, we use euphemisms: income transfers or redistribution. It's not just left-wingers and Democrats who call for and admire socialism but right-wingers and Republicans as well.

Republicans and right-wingers support taking the earnings of one American and giving them to farmers, banks, airlines and other failing businesses. Democrats and left-wingers support taking the earnings of one American and giving them to poor people, cities and artists. Both agree on taking one American's earnings to give to another; they simply differ on the recipients. This kind of congressional activity constitutes at least two-thirds of the federal budget.

Regardless of the purpose, such behavior is immoral. It's a reduced form of slavery. After all, what is the essence of slavery? It's the forceful use of one person to serve the purposes of another person. When Congress, through the tax code, takes the earnings of one person and turns around to give it to another person in the forms of prescription drugs, Social Security, food stamps, farm subsidies or airline bailouts, it is forcibly using one person to serve the purposes of another.

The moral question stands out in starker relief when we acknowledge that those spending programs coming out of Congress do not represent lawmakers reaching into their own pockets and sending out the money. Moreover, there's no tooth fairy or Santa Claus giving them the money. The fact that government has no resources of its very own forces us to acknowledge that the only way government can give one American a dollar is to first -- through intimidation, threats and coercion -- take that dollar from some other American.

Some might rejoin that all of this is a result of a democratic process and it's legal. Legality alone is no guide for a moral people. There are many things in this world that have been, or are, legal but clearly immoral. Slavery was legal. Did that make it moral? South Africa's apartheid, Nazi persecution of Jews, and Stalinist and Maoist purges were all legal, but did that make them moral?

Can a moral case be made for taking the rightful property of one American and giving it to another to whom it does not belong? I think not. That's why socialism is evil. It uses evil means (coercion) to achieve what are seen as good ends (helping people). We might also note that an act that is inherently evil does not become moral simply because there's a majority consensus.




Socialism is evil

people without jobs (as CEO's and the generals of capitalism move those jobs overseas)
should just shut up and die!

any governmental attempts to help them would be SOCIALISM!

and socialism is EVIL

unlike unfettered capitalism
which takes jobs away from Americans
and leaves them to die
which is GOOD!

we do not have unfettered capitalism In fact our economy is heavily regulated by the federal government. So much so that the federal government is in large part responsible for manufacturing by US companies to be done in other countries.
Would it interest an of liberals that here in the US we have the highest corporate tax (35%) in the industrialized world? No of course not....I suppose you are unaware that some countries in an attempt to entice businesses to relocate and existing business to stay, are lowering their corporate tax rates....Gee ,what a novel idea!!!!

What would interest me is corporations not being taxed or regulated at all, and being completely shut off from the government.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

The good news about socialism is that it needs no leaders, it doesn't require promotion.

All intelligent society will come to it.

As a socialist, I find threads like this absolutely hilarious. Like chickens clucking in a pen.

As resources continue to dwindle .. guess what .. greater expressions of socialism are inevitable.

As the capitalist model continues to fail .. guess what .. greater expressions of socialism.

Socialism, like democracy, comes in varying forms. I'm a democratic socialist and I feel no need to argue or debate socialism with people that don't have a ******* clue what socialism is. Totally unnecessary.

Scream, whine, holler ... it makes no difference.

ALL intelligent society will come to it.

Yeah, right. That's why millions of people are coming to the US to escape socialism. This is why western European nations are going broke due to the high cost of social safety nets. Newsflash...socialism in UNSUSTAINABLE....
Socialism breeds complacency, greed and laziness. Socialism creates an environment where everyone under the system is equally miserable.
Invariably, the producers are driven to their knees with confiscatory taxation to supplly funding for social safety nets. As more people decide it is no longer profitable to work or own businesses, they drop out of producing and creating. They join the ranks of the takers. The slugs. The drones of society.
Those who long for socialism are lazy good for nothing slobs who don't have within their miserable bodies an ounce of integrity or gumption. Socialists exist to have other provide them with a living. If you are a socialist, you are nothing. You exist. You are a parasite.

Your "parasite" is the hole you crawled out of.

SCREAM, WHINE, HOLLER .. RUN YOUR HEAD INTO A WALL IF YOU CHOOSE ... it makes no difference

 

[Sallow]

What would interest me is corporations not being taxed or regulated at all, and being completely shut off from the government.

And there's the pickle no one picks up. People talking about "unfettered" capitalism don't know that blade swings both ways. You want unfettered? Sure.

-No more patents or copyrights.
-No more laws on what can be sold. The only criteria is that there is a demand and it makes money.
-No more protection by government to corporations from Unions. Yeah..they got an unfettered right to assemble. Wonder how that would work out around factories without government stepping in.
-No more Government contracts, grants, or loans. Government builds what it needs on it's own.
-No more deference to "brick and mortars". You want to step up a stand to sell stuff? Go for it.

I've been to countries that practice this sort of thing..like Thailand (to a certain extent).

Wonder if Conservatives REALLY want to adopt that model.

 

[sangha]

What would interest me is corporations not being taxed or regulated at all, and being completely shut off from the government.

And there's the pickle no one picks up. People talking about "unfettered" capitalism don't know that blade swings both ways. You want unfettered? Sure.

-No more patents or copyrights.
-No more laws on what can be sold. The only criteria is that there is a demand and it makes money.
-No more protection by government to corporations from Unions. Yeah..they got an unfettered right to assemble. Wonder how that would work out around factories without government stepping in.
-No more Government contracts, grants, or loans. Government builds what it needs on it's own.
-No more deference to "brick and mortars". You want to step up a stand to sell stuff? Go for it.

I've been to countries that practice this sort of thing..like Thailand (to a certain extent).

Wonder if Conservatives REALLY want to adopt that model.

If thw wingnuts want to live in a place with a small govt, I suggest Afghanistan. It's the wingnuts wet dream.