soccer ref struck in face by player dies

[JakeStarkey]

The accused should be charged today. We will see if the Salt Lake County District Attorney is correct, the person whom I noted as my source for what I wrote.

Ernie S merely motors his mouth without much sense, nothing new there.

 

[koshergrl]

Would you expect a person to die because you punched them in the face?

OK ! let's define a "punch", while in the U.S. Navy i was taught some basic self defense hand to hand combat, IF in a live or die situation a "punch" by the heel of the hand to the nose will drive the nose bone right into the brain, thus totally destroying your opponent.

this "punch" can also be administered by a fist to the nose, the "kid" meant to do harm by hitting the ref in the face....., and the nose is the most vital spot on ones face.

he MURDERED the ref, plain and simple !!

I had someone tell me in no uncertain terms, on usmb, that it is impossible to kill a person by a hit to the nose...there is no "nasal bone" per se, and the cartilege isn't stout enough to go through the sinus cavity.

My dad was special forces in the 40s and said otherwise...but meh.

My guess is there was either damage to the brain stem caused either by hitting the ground or the force of the blow, or there was a hemorrhage.

But yeah, people can die from being hit.

 

[Ernie S.]

Would you expect a person to die because you punched them in the face?

OK ! let's define a "punch", while in the U.S. Navy i was taught some basic self defense hand to hand combat, IF in a live or die situation a "punch" by the heel of the hand to the nose will drive the nose bone right into the brain, thus totally destroying your opponent.

this "punch" can also be administered by a fist to the nose, the "kid" meant to do harm by hitting the ref in the face....., and the nose is the most vital spot on ones face.

he MURDERED the ref, plain and simple !!

I had someone tell me in no uncertain terms, on usmb, that it is impossible to kill a person by a hit to the nose...there is no "nasal bone" per se, and the cartilege isn't stout enough to go through the sinus cavity.

My dad was special forces in the 40s and said otherwise...but meh.

My guess is there was either damage to the brain stem caused either by hitting the ground or the force of the blow, or there was a hemorrhage.

But yeah, people can die from being hit.

Damned right they can. I saw it happen on TV in March of '62.

Look up Benny "the Kid" Paret

 

[Ernie S.]

The accused should be charged today. We will see if the Salt Lake County District Attorney is correct, the person whom I noted as my source for what I wrote.

Ernie S merely motors his mouth without much sense, nothing new there.

Even if you are right, Jake, that doesn't detract from your constant air of superiority. You have a habit of coming off like a short, fat grammar school 3rd Assistant Vice Principal.

 

[Ernie S.]

Jake, perhaps you should go back and reread what you saw about the DA. Let me quote from what I've found:

Salt Lake County District Attorney Sim Gill said he and other officials are reviewing evidence and state statutes to determine the appropriate charges, which he expects to announce by midweek.

The teen, whose name is being withheld because he is a minor, is in juvenile detention on suspicion of aggravated assault. Authorities are considering additional charges since Portillo's death.

Legal analysts say the key factor for Gill to determine is intent.

Paul Cassell, a criminal law professor at the University of Utah, who is not involved in the case, said that from what he has seen it doesn't appear the teenager intended to kill Portillo, which means a murder charge is highly unlikely.


More probable is the lesser charge of "homicide by assault," which comes when an attack unintentionally causes death. The charge brings up to five years in prison for adults. Penalties can be less for juveniles.

"This appears to be a freak and tragic result of striking a referee," said Cassell, a former federal prosecutor and judge. "Clearly, that is a crime, but that is not going to be murder."

Tanya Lewis, a private attorney in Salt Lake City and legal analyst, who also is not involved in the case, said the charges should fall between homicide by assault and manslaughter, which is more serious.

No Jake, the DA did not say the charges would or should be homicide by assault. It was a talking head with zero influence, in other words, an irrelevant asshole.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Even if you are right, Jake, that doesn't detract from your constant air of superiority. You have a habit of coming off like a short, fat grammar school 3rd Assistant Vice Principal.

Such a petty, vicious mind evinces from your posts. Almost everyone here on the Board is superior to you, my minion.

You get stay for grins and chuckles only.

 

[JakeStarkey]

the DA did not say the charges would or should be homicide by assault. It was a talking head with zero influence, in other words, an irrelevant asshole.

Cassell said the same things that the Salt Lake County DA said: that the charges would probably be homicide by assault. The only irrelevant asshole remains you on this issue. I listened to both of them, you did not.

 

[Ernie S.]

the DA did not say the charges would or should be homicide by assault. It was a talking head with zero influence, in other words, an irrelevant asshole.

Cassell said the same things that the Salt Lake County DA said: that the charges would probably be homicide by assault. The only irrelevant asshole remains you on this issue. I listened to both of them, you did not.

Link to Gill saying what the charges should or would be?

 

[Againsheila]

There's got to be more to have caused his death. People usually don't die from being punched in the face. Maybe he had a tumor and the punch ruptured it causing inflammation of the brain?

For sure the kid needs anger management and he'll probably get something, but I'm not convinced that he intended to kill him.

He intended to cause physical harm. That is all that's needed to prove manslaughter.

manslaughter, not murder as some here are saying. I just think it's a tragedy for everyone involved.

 

[Ernie S.]

Sure, it's a tragedy and a 17 year old has ruined his life through his own actions

 

[JakeStarkey]

manslaughter, not murder as some here are saying. I just think it's a tragedy for everyone involved.

Maybe but manslaughter will have to include "reckless regard". Homicide by assault only requires proof that the teen hit the ref. The real sell out will be if the teen is not charged as an adult. Personal accountability, I would think, must be the key here to the charges.

 

[koshergrl]

What is with all the armchair, internet lawyers?

Acting like they know what the hell the diff between voluntary and involuntary manslaughter is, lolol....

 

[Againsheila]

Sure, it's a tragedy and a 17 year old has ruined his life through his own actions

Yes, and yet I'm certain he didn't intend to kill the guy. Can you imagine how he feels? When I was a kid I read a book called "Follow my Leader" about a kid that went blind due to a firecracker being thrown in his face. The kid who did it hadn't intended the consequence, he thought it would be funny. When the kid goes to school to get a seeing eye dog he has a roommate who's blind. The roommate feels sorry for the guy driving the car who caused his own blindness and the kid asks why. He says, "Well, I thought about it and if given the choice of being the guy who goes blind or the guy who made the guy go blind, I'd rather be the blind guy." I agree, I wouldn't want to be that kid for anything.

 

[koshergrl]

Yes, well, better to be the kid than the ref that he killed. Or the ref's children...

Playing soccer at this level, that kid knew that what he was doing was wrong, wrong, wrong. He knew that you don't attack the referee. He's a criminal, and a punk, who thought that his physical prowess would buy his way out of any situation his shitty behavior got him into.

And he was wrong. I doubt he feels bad, I imagine he is proud of himself. That type of little punk usually is. He's going to be a star at juvie.

 

[Ernie S.]

Sure, it's a tragedy and a 17 year old has ruined his life through his own actions

Yes, and yet I'm certain he didn't intend to kill the guy. Can you imagine how he feels? When I was a kid I read a book called "Follow my Leader" about a kid that went blind due to a firecracker being thrown in his face. The kid who did it hadn't intended the consequence, he thought it would be funny. When the kid goes to school to get a seeing eye dog he has a roommate who's blind. The roommate feels sorry for the guy driving the car who caused his own blindness and the kid asks why. He says, "Well, I thought about it and if given the choice of being the guy who goes blind or the guy who made the guy go blind, I'd rather be the blind guy." I agree, I wouldn't want to be that kid for anything.

I understand fully. The kid will punish himself over this, I hope, though a 17 year old that punches a referee over a yellow card is borderline psychopathic and may not be remorseful.
At any rate, incarcerating him for a, say 10 year term may serve as a deterrent the next time a kid decides to assault an official.
Consider what could have happened had this been a traffic stop instead of a soccer game. Cop hands kid a speeding ticket and kid punches him. You write the rest of the scenario.

 

[koshergrl]

It all depends on whether or not he shows (and genuinely experiences) remorse and repentance.

Generally speaking, 17 year old boys who use their bodies as weapons against authority figures aren't going to "get better" over time...and they particularly don't get better if they're incarcerated. A kid who kills someone with his fists at 17 isn't going to come out a seasoned, reasonable adult at 27. Generally speaking, kids that young who are that violent don't get better, and they re-offend close on the heels of release when they are released.

If he was aghast at his lack of control immediately, if he is tearful and genuinely sorry NOW, then there is hope for him. Boys that age are dangerous, and he was hyped up on the field....I think the coach probably deserves some of the blame because usually athletes that are that over the top are encouraged to maintain that over the top-ness by the adults who want them to win at all costs.

I don't know, that's my take on it anyway. I see coaches who encourage that crazy "win!" attitude, and don't exert any sort of control over their players...that's what this sounds like. A kid that go berserck like that usually does it thinking that the people he respects will be impressed that he had the balls to do it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I agree in general with AgainSheila and Ernie S. If the charge is manslaughter, that scenario may happen. But if he is charged as a youth, or if he is charged as an adult with homicide by assault, he will be freed from youth custody on his 21st birthday or he will serve no more than five years if convicted of the latter.

 

[Againsheila]

Sure, it's a tragedy and a 17 year old has ruined his life through his own actions

Yes, and yet I'm certain he didn't intend to kill the guy. Can you imagine how he feels? When I was a kid I read a book called "Follow my Leader" about a kid that went blind due to a firecracker being thrown in his face. The kid who did it hadn't intended the consequence, he thought it would be funny. When the kid goes to school to get a seeing eye dog he has a roommate who's blind. The roommate feels sorry for the guy driving the car who caused his own blindness and the kid asks why. He says, "Well, I thought about it and if given the choice of being the guy who goes blind or the guy who made the guy go blind, I'd rather be the blind guy." I agree, I wouldn't want to be that kid for anything.

I understand fully. The kid will punish himself over this, I hope, though a 17 year old that punches a referee over a yellow card is borderline psychopathic and may not be remorseful.
At any rate, incarcerating him for a, say 10 year term may serve as a deterrent the next time a kid decides to assault an official.
Consider what could have happened had this been a traffic stop instead of a soccer game. Cop hands kid a speeding ticket and kid punches him. You write the rest of the scenario.

10 years? For one punch?

I doubt this would have happened in a traffic stop and punching a ref doesn't equal psychopath or there'd be a lot more psychopaths in the world. And if the kid is a psychopath, he needs to be institutionalized or put on medication and watched for the rest of his life, 10 years in prison isn't going to solve that problem.

 

[koshergrl]

Ah, againsheila again standing up for people who make pisspoor decisions that hurt (and in this case, kill) other people, and demanding that the people be responsible for taking care of them.

He isn't in trouble for punching. He's in trouble for KILLING.

 

[newpolitics]

What gives you the right to punch anyone?

Which part of my post gave you the impression that I think people have the right to punch others?

You seemed to imply that losing one's temper justifies a punch.

And no it couldn't happen to any of us. Just to those that think losing your temper gives you cause to strike someone.

You are reading into it what you want. I am not addressing justification whatsoever, or implying that one has justification because one is angry to strike someone. I am merely saying it happens because humans are fallible and lose control, and when it does, ones life should not be ruined for it by a life's sentence.