soccer ref struck in face by player dies

[WillowTree]

Its murder. When you punch someone in the face and head you know aforehand that the brain resides there and trauma to the brain can and does occur with a punch. it's damn murder.

If that's true, why are they allowed to hit the head in boxing?

They use GLOVES in boxing.
IN any event boxing is a sanctioned sporting activity in which the participants are well aware and have contractual acknowledgement that participation in the sport of boxing can result in serious injury or even death.
I cannot believe a person of reasonable intelligence would ask such a question.

Ask her why the NFL players are all suing the NFL for brain damage? no one INTENDED to bash their brains in either. and they got paid to do it.

 

[newpolitics]

hey jackass, he put the ref away for life, that's not ridiculous that's ******* justice.

He put the ref away for life? Really? I didn't know death meant you were still alive.

now, yer catching on, he killed the man, snuffed his ******* life out, the ref don't get to go to jail.,,, the kid is alive let him spend the REST of his sorry ******* miserable life in PRISON

To ruin a kids life over a fluke incident is idiotic. If the ref had a condition he didn't know about that made him susceptible to death from minor concussion, that was his fault for being engaged in such an activity where this was probable, not the kids. Granted, punching the ref in the face is completely unacceptable in sport, however it would have unreasonable for anyone to conclude that such an action would lead to a mans death, therefore, he shouldn't be punished as if it were.

 

[Againsheila]

He murdered the guy.

Would you expect a person to die because you punched them in the face?

This is a horrible situation, but I can't think it was murder. Who dies from one punch in the face? I don't know, I feel for everybody in this case, including the teen and his family.

Yes.

You must be awfully strong.

 

[Againsheila]

Why should this kid get away with punching ANYONE in the face?

He shouldn't. I never said he should get away with it, I said it's not murder and I seriously doubt he expected anyone to die because he punched them in the face. This is a tragedy, for everyone involved.

 

[Connery]

Further charges would be contingent upon the cause of death. "An autopsy is planned. No cause of death was released."

 

[Ernie S.]

It's not voluntary if you can't prove that he intended to kill him.

That would be murder.

He intended to perform the act which resulted in an unintended death. Manslaughter. Voluntary manslaughter.

Key word 'unintended'. Involuntary.

Utah law defines "murder" as:

1.(a) the actor intentionally or knowingly causes the death of another;
(b) intending to cause serious bodily injury to another, the actor commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of another;
(c) acting under circumstances evidencing a depraved indifference to human life, the actor engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to another and thereby causes the death of another;

And manslaughter as:

Criminal homicide constitutes manslaughter if the actor:
2. (a) recklessly causes the death of another;
(b) commits a homicide which would be murder, but the offense is reduced pursuant to Subsection 76-5-203(3); or
(c) commits murder, but special mitigation is established under Section 76-5-205.5

And negligent homicide as:

3. Criminal homicide constitutes negligent homicide if the actor, acting with criminal negligence, causes the death of another.

I see no mention of voluntary on involuntary.

A prosecutor could argue murder under 1. (b) or homicide under 2. (a)

 

[WillowTree]

He put the ref away for life? Really? I didn't know death meant you were still alive.

now, yer catching on, he killed the man, snuffed his ******* life out, the ref don't get to go to jail.,,, the kid is alive let him spend the REST of his sorry ******* miserable life in PRISON

To ruin a kids life over a fluke incident is idiotic. If the ref had a condition he didn't know about that made him susceptible to death from minor concussion, that was his fault for being engaged in such an activity where this was probable, not the kids. Granted, punching the ref in the face is completely unacceptable in sport, however it would have unreasonable for anyone to conclude that such an action would lead to a mans death, therefore, he shouldn't be punished as if it were.

typical ******* liberal bullshit, blame the victim

 

[newpolitics]

now, yer catching on, he killed the man, snuffed his ******* life out, the ref don't get to go to jail.,,, the kid is alive let him spend the REST of his sorry ******* miserable life in PRISON

To ruin a kids life over a fluke incident is idiotic. If the ref had a condition he didn't know about that made him susceptible to death from minor concussion, that was his fault for being engaged in such an activity where this was probable, not the kids. Granted, punching the ref in the face is completely unacceptable in sport, however it would have unreasonable for anyone to conclude that such an action would lead to a mans death, therefore, he shouldn't be punished as if it were.

typical ******* liberal bullshit, blame the victim

Are you purposely reversing stigmas between cons and libs for some kind of comedic effect? Conservatives are typically derided for "blaming the victim." Not liberals.

 

[thereisnospoon]

If that's true, why are they allowed to hit the head in boxing?

They use GLOVES in boxing.
IN any event boxing is a sanctioned sporting activity in which the participants are well aware and have contractual acknowledgement that participation in the sport of boxing can result in serious injury or even death.
I cannot believe a person of reasonable intelligence would ask such a question.

Ask her why the NFL players are all suing the NFL for brain damage? no one INTENDED to bash their brains in either. and they got paid to do it.

Attempts at intelligent debate with people such as 'sheila' are futile.

 

[newpolitics]

It is outlooks such as yours that pollutes our criminal justice system with spineless prosecutors and judges who refuse to work for the PEOPLE. THat is trial for the offense allegedly committed convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt as to the guilt of the defendant then put the guilty in prison for a length of time as prescribed by law.
No..It's well ,"he is so young". Or "It's his first time".
Just as a dog is not entitled to "just one bite"...A person is no entitled to 'just one punch"..
A man is DEAD....The people are outraged. Some one has to pay. The person who caused that man's death is the one who MUST pay.

It is outlooks such as yours this would ruin a kids life because he got heated during competition. I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished, but not for life. That Punishment doesn't fit the crime.

His damn life needs to be ruined, he ruined the ref's life, the ref's wife's life, and the ref's three daughters lives.. **** ya the punishment fits the crime.

So, if a victim has more relatives or significant others who would be saddened by his/her loss, the punishment should be increased? This is not how our trial system works. By this logic, it would less punishable to kill a homeless guy than a dad of a three.

 

[hjmick]

To ruin a kids life over a fluke incident is idiotic.

A "fluke" incident? Really? Was it a "fluke" that the seventeen year old kid, who outweighed Mr. Portillo by the way, punched him in the side of the head? Doesn't sound like it. The kid was pissed and deliberately punched the referee. Nothing there that could be called a "fluke," just a crime.

Oh, and unless they charge the kid with a misdemeanor or as a juvenile, his life is already ruined.

If the ref had a condition he didn't know about that made him susceptible to death from minor concussion, that was his fault for being engaged in such an activity where this was probable, not the kids.

Oh, so now it's the fault of the victim? A "condition he didn't know about?" Where do you come up with this shit? You do know that boxers have died from the same injuries, right? Punches to the head? andthey wear gloves. Here you have a bare knuckle punch to the head.

How is it "probable" that a person would be punched in the head refereeing a soccer game? Where the hell do you play soccer?

Granted, punching the ref in the face is completely unacceptable in sport...,

Gee, ya think?

...however it would have unreasonable for anyone to conclude that such an action would lead to a mans death, therefore, he shouldn't be punished as if it were.

Bullshit. You throw a punch, your intent is to do harm. Your intent is to do as much harm as possible. Your intent should be to make sure the person you punch doesn't get up and beat the shit out of you. If it isn't you're an idiot.

This kid killed a man. He committed a crime that resulted in the man's death. To suggest that "his life not be ruined" is an insult to Ricardo Portillo and his family.

Homicide by assault, as an adult. That's fair.

 

[newpolitics]

To ruin a kids life over a fluke incident is idiotic.

A "fluke" incident? Really? Was it a "fluke" that the seventeen year old kid, who outweighed Mr. Portillo by the way, punched him in the side of the head? Doesn't sound like it. The kid was pissed and deliberately punched the referee. Nothing there that could be called a "fluke," just a crime.

Oh, and unless they charge the kid with a misdemeanor or as a juvenile, his life is already ruined.

If the ref had a condition he didn't know about that made him susceptible to death from minor concussion, that was his fault for being engaged in such an activity where this was probable, not the kids.

Oh, so now it's the fault of the victim? A "condition he didn't know about?" Where do you come up with this shit? You do know that boxers have died from the same injuries, right? Punches to the head? andthey wear gloves. Here you have a bare knuckle punch to the head.

How is it "probable" that a person would be punched in the head refereeing a soccer game? Where the hell do you play soccer?

Granted, punching the ref in the face is completely unacceptable in sport...,

Gee, ya think?

...however it would have unreasonable for anyone to conclude that such an action would lead to a mans death, therefore, he shouldn't be punished as if it were.

Bullshit. You throw a punch, your intent is to do harm. Your intent is to do as much harm as possible. Your intent should be to make sure the person you punch doesn't get up and beat the shit out of you. If it isn't you're an idiot.

This kid killed a man. He committed a crime that resulted in the man's death. To suggest that "his life not be ruined" is an insult to Ricardo Portillo and his family.

Homicide by assault, as an adult. That's fair.

It was a fluke in the respect that a punch to the face does not typically result in murder. Boxing is a horrible analogy, since that is a sport where getting punched is part of the sport and every boxer knows this, therefore any boxer that had a neurophysiological condition whereby a small concussion could result in death would be irresponsible and reckless in engaging in such a sport, and should be faulted for his subsequent death, should it occur. It is understood that soccer is a physical game, and when refs take that job, they voluntarily accept a certain amount of risk. Getting hit in the face with a ball could have been another mode of injury that could have had the same result. The risk is there as a soccer ref. The kid should not be punished for the ref's indiscretion with regards to his personal safety. Again, the kid should be punished, but not for life. That is all I am saying. What he did was completely uncalled for in the game of soccer. I played HS varsity soccer. I know how heated it gets, and how rough it is. The ref was putting himself in harms way, as are all of the players. If he had a precondition that made him susceptible to severe head injury, he should not have been there.

 

[Againsheila]

They use GLOVES in boxing.
IN any event boxing is a sanctioned sporting activity in which the participants are well aware and have contractual acknowledgement that participation in the sport of boxing can result in serious injury or even death.
I cannot believe a person of reasonable intelligence would ask such a question.

Ask her why the NFL players are all suing the NFL for brain damage? no one INTENDED to bash their brains in either. and they got paid to do it.

Attempts at intelligent debate with people such as 'sheila' are futile.

Obviously I debate better than you, I haven't resorted to personal attacks.

 

[HereAmIAmMe]

He put the ref away for life? Really? I didn't know death meant you were still alive.

now, yer catching on, he killed the man, snuffed his ******* life out, the ref don't get to go to jail.,,, the kid is alive let him spend the REST of his sorry ******* miserable life in PRISON

To ruin a kids life over a fluke incident is idiotic. If the ref had a condition he didn't know about that made him susceptible to death from minor concussion, that was his fault for being engaged in such an activity where this was probable, not the kids. Granted, punching the ref in the face is completely unacceptable in sport, however it would have unreasonable for anyone to conclude that such an action would lead to a mans death, therefore, he shouldn't be punished as if it were.

How exactly can it be the ref's fault for participating "in such an activity... where this was probable" if he had a condition he didn't know about? If he was boxing, which is actually an activity where he is likely to be hit in the head, and he died from some previously unknown condition the most you could say is it was nobody's fault.

As for your implication that refereeing a soccer match is an activity where it is probable that you will get punched in the head: I have never known any referee in any sport who was punched in the head for it. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it is probable. I might get punched in the head at work. I don't think it will happen, but hey it might.

And it is not unreasonable to expect a blow to the head to lead to death. In fact it could be said that to expect anything else is unreasonable. You don't hit someone in the head to improve their health. If you hit someone in the head you intend to do harm. If your intent to do harm causes death how can you expect not to be punished for it? It would be different if the kid accidentally ran into the guy and knocked him over causing him to hit his head and die.

 

[newpolitics]

An analogy: imagine a debate team, where one of the debate judges has a serious blood pressure condition that could be fatal if he gets too worked up. The results for the debate are delivered, and a member of the losing team gets so angry, he starts insulting one of the judges personally. Eventually the judge gets so worked up, his blood pressure spikes, he has a heart attack and dies. Is the one who threw the insults to be jailed for murder? For life?

The analogy isn't perfect, but its close.

 

[HereAmIAmMe]

An analogy: imagine a debate team, where one of the debate judges has a serious blood pressure condition that could be fatal if he gets too worked up. The results for the debate are delivered, and a member of the losing team gets so angry, he starts insulting one of the judges personally. Eventually the judge gets so worked up, his blood pressure spikes, he has a heart attack and dies. Is the one who threw the insults to be jailed for murder? For life?

The analogy isn't perfect, but its close.

No it isn't close. Not at all. You don't intend bodily harm to someone when you insult them. You definitely intend bodily harm if you punch someone.

 

[newpolitics]

now, yer catching on, he killed the man, snuffed his ******* life out, the ref don't get to go to jail.,,, the kid is alive let him spend the REST of his sorry ******* miserable life in PRISON

To ruin a kids life over a fluke incident is idiotic. If the ref had a condition he didn't know about that made him susceptible to death from minor concussion, that was his fault for being engaged in such an activity where this was probable, not the kids. Granted, punching the ref in the face is completely unacceptable in sport, however it would have unreasonable for anyone to conclude that such an action would lead to a mans death, therefore, he shouldn't be punished as if it were.

How exactly can it be the ref's fault for participating "in such an activity... where this was probable" if he had a condition he didn't know about? If he was boxing, which is actually an activity where he is likely to be hit in the head, and he died from some previously unknown condition the most you could say is it was nobody's fault.

As for your implication that refereeing a soccer match is an activity where it is probable that you will get punched in the head: I have never known any referee in any sport who was punched in the head for it. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it is probable. I might get punched in the head at work. I don't think it will happen, but hey it might.

And it is not unreasonable to expect a blow to the head to lead to death. In fact it could be said that to expect anything else is unreasonable. You don't hit someone in the head to improve their health. If you hit someone in the head you intend to do harm. If your intent to do harm causes death how can you expect not to be punished for it? It would be different if the kid accidentally ran into the guy and knocked him over causing him to hit his head and die.

Did you read my post? I said that punching a ref is completely unacceptable. All I said was, being a ref in a physical sport puts you At risks for head injury. I didn't specify how.

I am not defending this kid and trying to say it was okay. What he did was indefensible, as far as game conduct goes. However, the punishment needs to fit the crime. Some in here think he should get life. I disagree. I think his is far In excess of the crime. Every time there is a bar right, and someone gets punched in the face, should they go to jail for life? No. Because the intent is never murder.

 

[newpolitics]

An analogy: imagine a debate team, where one of the debate judges has a serious blood pressure condition that could be fatal if he gets too worked up. The results for the debate are delivered, and a member of the losing team gets so angry, he starts insulting one of the judges personally. Eventually the judge gets so worked up, his blood pressure spikes, he has a heart attack and dies. Is the one who threw the insults to be jailed for murder? For life?

The analogy isn't perfect, but its close.

No it isn't close. Not at all. You don't intend bodily harm to someone when you insult them. You definitely intend bodily harm if you punch someone.

Bodily harm is not the same as murder. Don't conflate the two.

 

[newpolitics]

Just because someone intends bodily harm, doesn't mean they intend murder.

 

[HereAmIAmMe]

To ruin a kids life over a fluke incident is idiotic. If the ref had a condition he didn't know about that made him susceptible to death from minor concussion, that was his fault for being engaged in such an activity where this was probable, not the kids. Granted, punching the ref in the face is completely unacceptable in sport, however it would have unreasonable for anyone to conclude that such an action would lead to a mans death, therefore, he shouldn't be punished as if it were.

How exactly can it be the ref's fault for participating "in such an activity... where this was probable" if he had a condition he didn't know about? If he was boxing, which is actually an activity where he is likely to be hit in the head, and he died from some previously unknown condition the most you could say is it was nobody's fault.

As for your implication that refereeing a soccer match is an activity where it is probable that you will get punched in the head: I have never known any referee in any sport who was punched in the head for it. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it is probable. I might get punched in the head at work. I don't think it will happen, but hey it might.

And it is not unreasonable to expect a blow to the head to lead to death. In fact it could be said that to expect anything else is unreasonable. You don't hit someone in the head to improve their health. If you hit someone in the head you intend to do harm. If your intent to do harm causes death how can you expect not to be punished for it? It would be different if the kid accidentally ran into the guy and knocked him over causing him to hit his head and die.

Did you read my post? I said that punching a ref is completely unacceptable. All I said was, being a ref in a physical sport puts you At risks for head injury. I didn't specify how.

I am not defending this kid and trying to say it was okay. What he did was indefensible, as far as game conduct goes. However, the punishment needs to fit the crime. Some in here think he should get life. I disagree. I think his is far In excess of the crime. Every time there is a bar right, and someone gets punched in the face, should they go to jail for life? No. Because the intent is never murder.

If you get in a bar fight... and someone dies then yes you most likely will go to jail for a long time. Punching someone in the face is not only indefensible as far as game conduct goes. Punching someone goes way beyond what is not acceptable in some sport.