So, this is what passes for leadership, now?

[Papageorgio]

He can make that claim all he likes, I smell bullshit. Either that, or he lives in Bumblefuck, ID, where the population is 150, and his doctor is the country doctor for the next three counties.

Ever notice how whenever Conservatives debate, they always use unverified personal anecdotes as a substitute for facts? Like suddenly their argument has credibility because they say they personally experienced something. It's such bullshit. Can't believe people still buy it.

Listen, this is a reality, just because you are an uneducated lefty, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. How to Cut Your Health-Care Bill: Pay Cash.

Now, go educate yourself and let me know how it goes, ok cupcake. I hope your brain doesn't hurt to much.

 

[The Derp]

The gov's job is to protect the people, not provide for or direct.

According to whom? The General Welfare clause of the Constitution certainly would envelop health care. Furthermore, the government isn't to protect people from bad health? Well gosh, we should suspend all those anti-smoking campaigns that have reduced tobacco usage to historic lows then.

Before litigation forced the advent of HMO's, people would apply insurance coverage to their doctor and not vice-versa.

The advent of HMO's didn't all of a sudden eliminate other forms of medical providers. Are you even American? Or are you one of Trump's Russian trolls?

 

[The Derp]

We didn't use to have copays.
Your frame of reference is beyond free market. You have no perspective. That's a result of conditioning.

******* idiot. So on the one hand, you clowns want patients to "put more skin in the game", but then on the other hand, screech about rising deductibles and co-pays, which force patients to put more skin in the game.

You guys don't even know what it is you want. What a waste of everything.

 

[The Derp]

You need to go before the 80's.

What an idiot. Doing away with HMO's will accomplish what, exactly?

 

[Papageorgio]

Most don't do that anymore

I'd say outside of maybe extremely rural, deserted areas of the country, no doctors do that. And even then, I don't believe it. State-run hospitals are usually the source of health care for those who live in those areas. The reason is because it's not profitable for a private insurer to administrate because the pool of premiums is limited by the number of people in the area. I think you're making shit up about yourself, even as you walk back your broadly stupid comments and invented personal circumstances from earlier. Conservatives do that a lot; when their argument reaches its very limited end, suddenly all these personal sceanrios and circumstances just happen to validate the things you say that the facts don't. So we are forced to take your word for it. My question is; *why* should I take your word for it?

I paid him less money for not billing the insurance, I paid cash, he didn't have to bill an insurance company and you are right it doesn't happen anymore, it was a major city and it was a doctor who was a stand alone, not many of them anymore. Lots of doctors used to do that. It was three years ago, and I don't give a shit if you believe it or not, you are from third world hell hole.

No one should believe it because it sounds made up, you've offered nothing to prove it's true, and we're left to take your word for it. Why should I take your ******* word for it when you haven't been honest about anything so far? Like I'm supposed to believe you're being honest now? Har dee har har. Good one.

How to Cut Your Health-Care Bill: Pay Cash

Medical Bills Going Down If You Pay Cash – Way Down

Even if you have health insurance, you may want to pay cash

7 Things You Need To Know About Paying Cash For Medical Care

 

[Papageorgio]

You need a staff to bill and keep track of the insurance billing, it is expensive and arduous work, and then you get caught between the patient and the insurance company not wanting to pay. Lots of expense and adds to the cost of healthcare.

Exactly! So let's get everyone onto the same insurance plan and have only one entity do the administration nationwide. Wouldn't that save costs? Why do you not support that?

Eliminate the insurance altogether and pay cash.

 

[The Derp]

This was before Obamacare,

You said it was only 3 years ago. Obamacare's been around for 7 years. The exchanges have been around for 4. So something in your story isn't adding up. Probably because you're doing a very sloppy, rushed job of trying to shoehorn in unverifiable personal anecdotes that just so happen to validate your argument when the facts we can all see plainly do not.

I didn't use insurance for doctor visits, nowhere did I say I didn't have insurance.

And I. Don't. Believe. You. Why should I take your word for it? What have you done to establish that level of trust where I can accept the things you say about yourself with no proof?

I never said I paid with chickens, shit head. The doctor didn't have to bill an insurance company and got money that day instead of waiting 60-90 days. Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

First of all, you are now admitting that the administrative costs for private health insurance are burdensome to providers, which only bolsters the case for single-payer. Secondly, whether or not your provider is reimbursed has no bearing on the health care that was delivered to you. It is a transaction you are not even a part of. Thirdly, you are also saying that private insurers are inefficient if they are inconsistently reimbursing your provider. Which, again, only bolsters the case for a single entity that does reimbursements for everyone that is not privately-owned and unaccountable to patients, as private insurers are now.

Ever buy a car with cash? There is a discount if you pay cash. People don't like to wait to get paid.

So again, all you're doing is bolstering the case for single payer by lamenting the inefficiencies of private insurance. Medicare doesn't have those problems, does it? Medicare pays quickly, on time, and efficiently, and does it with 1% overhead.

 

[Papageorgio]

Most don't do that anymore

I'd say outside of maybe extremely rural, deserted areas of the country, no doctors do that. And even then, I don't believe it. State-run hospitals are usually the source of health care for those who live in those areas. The reason is because it's not profitable for a private insurer to administrate because the pool of premiums is limited by the number of people in the area. I think you're making shit up about yourself, even as you walk back your broadly stupid comments and invented personal circumstances from earlier. Conservatives do that a lot; when their argument reaches its very limited end, suddenly all these personal sceanrios and circumstances just happen to validate the things you say that the facts don't. So we are forced to take your word for it. My question is; *why* should I take your word for it?

I paid him less money for not billing the insurance, I paid cash, he didn't have to bill an insurance company and you are right it doesn't happen anymore, it was a major city and it was a doctor who was a stand alone, not many of them anymore. Lots of doctors used to do that. It was three years ago, and I don't give a shit if you believe it or not, you are from third world hell hole.

No one should believe it because it sounds made up, you've offered nothing to prove it's true, and we're left to take your word for it. Why should I take your ******* word for it when you haven't been honest about anything so far? Like I'm supposed to believe you're being honest now? Har dee har har. Good one.

Thank you though, this article explains a lot of why I can't negotiate anymore. Before I told the docs I have catastrophic insurance, and got the discount. Now, with insurance I don't get the discount.

Insured patients can save money by pretending to be uninsured

From here out, I am telling doctors I have no insurance.

Your lack of knowledge has helped me out. Thanks again.

 

[The Derp]

How to Cut Your Health-Care Bill: Pay Cash
Medical Bills Going Down If You Pay Cash – Way Down
Even if you have health insurance, you may want to pay cash
7 Things You Need To Know About Paying Cash For Medical Care

Again, unless you have $500K in cash laying in case you get cancer, this is just stupid.

 

[The Derp]

Eliminate the insurance altogether and pay cash.

What if you have a chronic genetic condition? What if you get cancer? What if you don't have the cash to pay for it? What happens then?

 

[Papageorgio]

This was before Obamacare,

You said it was only 3 years ago. Obamacare's been around for 7 years. The exchanges have been around for 4. So something in your story isn't adding up. Probably because you're doing a very sloppy, rushed job of trying to shoehorn in unverifiable personal anecdotes that just so happen to validate your argument when the facts we can all see plainly do not.

I didn't use insurance for doctor visits, nowhere did I say I didn't have insurance.

And I. Don't. Believe. You. Why should I take your word for it? What have you done to establish that level of trust where I can accept the things you say about yourself with no proof?

I never said I paid with chickens, shit head. The doctor didn't have to bill an insurance company and got money that day instead of waiting 60-90 days. Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

First of all, you are now admitting that the administrative costs for private health insurance are burdensome to providers, which only bolsters the case for single-payer. Secondly, whether or not your provider is reimbursed has no bearing on the health care that was delivered to you. It is a transaction you are not even a part of. Thirdly, you are also saying that private insurers are inefficient if they are inconsistently reimbursing your provider. Which, again, only bolsters the case for a single entity that does reimbursements for everyone that is not privately-owned and unaccountable to patients, as private insurers are now.

Ever buy a car with cash? There is a discount if you pay cash. People don't like to wait to get paid.

So again, all you're doing is bolstering the case for single payer by lamenting the inefficiencies of private insurance. Medicare doesn't have those problems, does it? Medicare pays quickly, on time, and efficiently, and does it with 1% overhead.

Good go on Medicare, don't believe me and be ignorant, I don't give amuck what you do. It happened, if you don't like it too ******* bad. It happened in the winter of 2013 in Seattle, WA. I just took a job and exchanges weren't in place, I had kidney stones.

If you don't believe, I don't give a shit, you are an uneducated, uninformed, lazy, closed minded idiot.

 

[Papageorgio]

How to Cut Your Health-Care Bill: Pay Cash
Medical Bills Going Down If You Pay Cash – Way Down
Even if you have health insurance, you may want to pay cash
7 Things You Need To Know About Paying Cash For Medical Care

Again, unless you have $500K in cash laying in case you get cancer, this is just stupid.

I have insurance shit head, no one said get rid of your insurance. Are you that ******* stupid? I just proved that doctors charge a lot less for cash. You said they didn't. You are dead wrong and now trying to change the subject.

 

[The Derp]

Thank you though, this article explains a lot of why I can't negotiate anymore. Before I told the docs I have catastrophic insurance, and got the discount. Now, with insurance I don't get the discount.

So let me unpack why what this clown wrote was bullshit:

You claimed that administration is why your $4,800 surgery would have cost $20,000. Which is a 200% increase because of just administration. So right there is argument #1 for a single payer system. So if you are saying that the cost of your surgery was inflated by $15,000 because of administration, then that says to me that either you are wildly exaggerating the cost of administration, or you are wildly exaggerating the amount you paid. Because it doesn't make any sense. Never mind the fact that it's completely unverifiable, leaving us to just take your word for it. Why should I? Why should anyone? Your entire argument hinges on your premise. The premise that has a lot of questionable holes in it. Which is why it sounds like you made it up, and are trying to backdoor justification for it after the fact.

Secondly,
Insured patients can save money by pretending to be uninsured

Yeah, only if they have the cash to pay for it. I don't know about you, but I don't have half a million dollars lying around in case I get lung cancer or heart disease.

From here out, I am telling doctors I have no insurance.
Your lack of knowledge has helped me out. Thanks again.

Why do I get the sense that everything you say is bullshit? Probably because nothing you are saying about yourself is provable in this thread because you are making personal claims anonymously and not giving us the chance to verify whether or not anything you're saying is true. So ******* lazy.

 

[Papageorgio]

Eliminate the insurance altogether and pay cash.

What if you have a chronic genetic condition? What if you get cancer? What if you don't have the cash to pay for it? What happens then?

It's as stupid as having a single payer. Just get catastrophic insurance and pay cash for the rest. Keeps the government out of our health care and let's the free markets move.

At least you admit the admin costs would be a reason to get the discount. Educate yourself Skippy.

 

[Papageorgio]

Thank you though, this article explains a lot of why I can't negotiate anymore. Before I told the docs I have catastrophic insurance, and got the discount. Now, with insurance I don't get the discount.

So let me unpack why what this clown wrote was bullshit:

You claimed that administration is why your $4,800 surgery would have cost $20,000. Which is a 200% increase because of just administration. So right there is argument #1 for a single payer system. So if you are saying that the cost of your surgery was inflated by $15,000 because of administration, then that says to me that either you are wildly exaggerating the cost of administration, or you are wildly exaggerating the amount you paid. Because it doesn't make any sense. Never mind the fact that it's completely unverifiable, leaving us to just take your word for it. Why should I? Why should anyone? Your entire argument hinges on your premise. The premise that has a lot of questionable holes in it. Which is why it sounds like you made it up, and are trying to backdoor justification for it after the fact.

Secondly,
Insured patients can save money by pretending to be uninsured

Yeah, only if they have the cash to pay for it. I don't know about you, but I don't have half a million dollars lying around in case I get lung cancer or heart disease.

From here out, I am telling doctors I have no insurance.
Your lack of knowledge has helped me out. Thanks again.

Why do I get the sense that everything you say is bullshit? Probably because nothing you are saying about yourself is provable in this thread because you are making personal claims anonymously and not giving us the chance to verify whether or not anything you're saying is true. So ******* lazy.

You completely missed the point and you did it deliberately. A catastrophic plan is all you need, eliminate insurance for doctor visits and bargain hunt.

I just sent you tons of links to verify something you claim never happens anymore and I proved you dead wrong. You are being totally dishonest. Whether you believe me or not, look at the links provided and it verifies that it happens and happening more and more and needs to happen more and more to drive the cost down.

The cost is the issue, single payer doesn't hold the costs down, it eliminates the free market that cash is currently driving down.

Again, read the links and see what really needs to happen or just remain ignorant and lazy and let the government tax us to death so you don't have to work.

 

[The Derp]

Good go on Medicare, don't believe me and be ignorant, I don't give amuck what you do.

See, I disagree. I think you do care a great deal that I believe you. Because your entire argument hinges on this thing you can't prove. Strip out your personal, unverifiable lie and what do you have left in your argument? Nothing. You are being lazy and pretending these things about yourself are true because doing the actual work of understanding this subject isn't something you are motivated or even capable of doing. Typical of Conservatives to make these "take my word for it" arguments in absence of any facts they can use to support them.

It happened, if you don't like it too ******* bad.

It's not a matter of me "liking it", it's a matter of me believing you since your entire argument hinges on this premise. You get that, right?

It happened in the winter of 2013 in Seattle, WA. I just took a job and exchanges weren't in place, I had kidney stones.
If you don't believe, I don't give a shit, you are an uneducated, uninformed, lazy, closed minded idiot.

Firstly, your employer didn't provide you with insurance? I think something like 75% or 80% of insured people in this country get their coverage through their employer. So that's a little weird. Secondly, you blamed Obamacare but now you're even admitting that Obamacare wasn't in place even though the Exchanges first started in the Fall of 2013, so your timeline is off, but whatever...at this point I'm expecting you to do this kind of thing. Thirdly, if you had to buy insurance on the exchanges because your employer didn't provide you with coverage, then your employer probably sucks too, and is ******* you over on your pay. There are just so many unanswered questions with regard to your personal circumstances that I don't even know why at this point you are still using them. Talk about lazy! Yeesh!

 

[The Derp]

I have insurance shit head, no one said get rid of your insurance.

Right, the ever-changing, I-have-insurance-but-I-don't-except-when-I-do-in-order-to-help-my-argument-unless-it-doesn't-in-which-case-I-don't. Snore-fest! Bo-ring!

You're the one arguing against health insurance in general, aren't you? Saying we should pay for health care with cash? Is that a different Papageorgio? Has someone hacked your account? Are you being trolled? What gives?

I just proved that doctors charge a lot less for cash. You said they didn't. You are dead wrong and now trying to change the subject.

I never said they did or didn't. All I asked was that if you don't have the cash, then what? Do you just suffer and die? I said your story made little sense because you claimed your surgery cost $20K with insurance, but $4,800 without. So you are admitting private insurance inflated the cost by 200%? So how is that not an argument for single payer? And who has $4,800 lying around anyway? Not most people.

You have a very immature view of health care. I think it's because you're too lazy to do the work of understanding it.

 

[danielpalos]

Basically it is democrats and three RINOc#nts preventing a full repeal.

nothing but repeal really is worth-less than a, fine and wonderful, replacement plan.

 

[The Derp]

It's as stupid as having a single payer. Just get catastrophic insurance and pay cash for the rest. Keeps the government out of our health care and let's the free markets move.

What an idiot. Do you know what a chronic genetic condition is? It's not something that a catastrophic plan would cover. Yeesh, what a moron.

At least you admit the admin costs would be a reason to get the discount. Educate yourself Skippy.

First of all, I doubt the costs you are citing here. I don't any of it is true. I think you're either exaggerating or straight-up bullshitting. You claimed your surgery cost $20,000 with insurance and $4,800 without. So you really want to make the argument that administrative costs are that high for private insurance? Really?

 

[Papageorgio]

Good go on Medicare, don't believe me and be ignorant, I don't give amuck what you do.

See, I disagree. I think you do care a great deal that I believe you. Because your entire argument hinges on this thing you can't prove. Strip out your personal, unverifiable lie and what do you have left in your argument? Nothing. You are being lazy and pretending these things about yourself are true because doing the actual work of understanding this subject isn't something you are motivated or even capable of doing. Typical of Conservatives to make these "take my word for it" arguments in absence of any facts they can use to support them.

It happened, if you don't like it too ******* bad.

It's not a matter of me "liking it", it's a matter of me believing you since your entire argument hinges on this premise. You get that, right?

It happened in the winter of 2013 in Seattle, WA. I just took a job and exchanges weren't in place, I had kidney stones.
If you don't believe, I don't give a shit, you are an uneducated, uninformed, lazy, closed minded idiot.

Firstly, your employer didn't provide you with insurance? I think something like 75% or 80% of insured people in this country get their coverage through their employer. So that's a little weird. Secondly, you blamed Obamacare but now you're even admitting that Obamacare wasn't in place even though the Exchanges first started in the Fall of 2013, so your timeline is off, but whatever...at this point I'm expecting you to do this kind of thing. Thirdly, if you had to buy insurance on the exchanges because your employer didn't provide you with coverage, then your employer probably sucks too, and is ******* you over on your pay. There are just so many unanswered questions with regard to your personal circumstances that I don't even know why at this point you are still using them. Talk about lazy! Yeesh!

I didn't lie, you don't get insurance for 90 days after you start and it can be longer depending on the start date. I never blamed Obamacare, I said it was before Obamacare and I could no longer do what I did in the winter of 2013, however now with the research I did to prove you wrong, which did prove you wrong, I found out I need to tell doctors I have no insurance.

I didn't need the exchanges, the exchanges didn't start until the fall of 2013, not the winter of 2013.

I tried to go to links to prove what happened to me now happens all the time, you are making a choice not to believe me, and it's all good, If you don't believe, then read the links as to what is happening to others and they are through legit sources. What happened to me has happened over and over again, whether you want to believe it or not.