So Now Judges Are Going to Decide Who Educates Kids

[xsited1]

lets see 30-40-50 years ago the us education system kicked ass.....now it sucks.......

uh..................am i the olnly one that sees how to fix this....in like an hour

Nope, but the NEA is too powerful to overcome and the Democratic Party is owned by the NEA. Don't expect anything to ever change.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Are you angry that Leftist Liberal Wackos have hijacked the Democratic Party?

Almost as angry that right wing religious nutbats have hijacked the repulican party.



This judge needs to keep his nose out of the kids education if the mom is doing well enough to have them ahead of their peer groups.

Any data on overall statistics of the quality of home schooling in the US?

I work for a school board, not as a teacher. The teachers that I have met are dedicated, knowledgeable and love their jobs. One of the problems here in Florida is teaching to the FCAT test. It's bullcrap.

Nothing to do with the fact that Neil Bush owns the company that sells the test and that it was implemented during Jeb's reign as governor. The test has been perverted to be an end in itself. Now the teachers are forced to teach to the test to get their school an A or B grade to make sure they don't get funds taken away.

My wife proctors during the test. Now we have 3rd graders and up who are so stressed out they are puking and getting sick when the FCAT is run.
Standardized testing is needed, but maybe it should be created by the teachers and oriented toward actual success in the real world and a measure of how well the kids have mastered the school board curriculum.

I am truly interested in the fact that you are involved with a school board, and your wife in involved with education as well. I posted my ideas yesterday, but would be interested in your opinion of same:
1) Public school teachers are more likely than others of their income to send their children to private school. There should be a commitment to public education by these professionals to send their own children to public, not private, school.

2) Teachers can decide how many students will be in their classes. Salary will be commensurate with the number of students they choose to teach.

3) In fourth grade, American students outperform most other countries in reading, math and science. Fourth-graders score in the 92nd percentile in science, the 58th percentile in math and the 70th percentile in reading, where they beat 26 of 35 countries, including Germany, France and Italy. But by the eighth grade, American students are only midrange in international comparisons. By the 12th grade Americans fall from the 92nd percentile in science to the 29th percentile. While American fourth-graders are bested only by South Korea and Japan in science, by 12th grade, the only countries the American students can beat are Lithuania, Cyprus and South Africa. Therefore salary, bonuses and merit pay will be based on student improvement on standardized tests. Bonuses and perks will be assigned to schools and/or individuals based on awards, scholarships, contests won by their students.

4) Civilianization of schools. Administrative positions will not be related to teaching positions, based on the principle that these do not require teaching credentials, but rather computer science, business experience, etc. Salaries will be substantially lower. While 80 percent of the employees of private schools are teachers, only half the employees of public schools are. The rest are "coordinating," "facilitating" or "empowering" or “supervising”. All teaching positions will be classroom positions. Teachers will not be relieved of teaching assignments for any other work. Exams will be graded outside of the school. Sports will not be considered a teaching or academic subject.

5) Any functions that are not education-related should be out-sourced based on competitive bidding, with contracts for a set time period. These shall include food-service, maintenance as well as transportation and after-school functions.

6) Bring back Vocational High Schools.

7) Discipline in schools will be the same as that of society in general. Felonies will be considered felonies. Violence will be addressed by police, not by deans, or “in house.” Facilities will be set up to house disruptive individuals.

 

[garyd]

You haven't met very many tachers then and fewer principals. Most of the one's I knew in the year I taught school were ignormuses who weren't much more knowledgable than the kids they were teaching. One of the scarier things I found in professional education classes was that at the elementary level most teachers are abysmally ignorant of math and science and aren't all that great shakes at anything else.

 

[rayboyusmc]

In any group there is the upper and lower percentile just like the nornal curve. I seriously doubt that the bad teachers you met were more than a fraction of the whole.

1) Public school teachers are more likely than others of their income to send their children to private school. There should be a commitment to public education by these professionals to send their own children to public, not private, school.


I have no data on this and have not heard this before. They should have their kids attend the schools they teach in.

2) Teachers can decide how many students will be in their classes. Salary will be commensurate with the number of students they choose to teach.

Don't like this idea. It would reward financially people who could take in more kids, but not teach them accordingly. There has to be some studied on what consitutes the best size class by age, topic, etc.

3) In fourth grade, American students outperform most other countries in reading, math and science. Fourth-graders score in the 92nd percentile in science, the 58th percentile in math and the 70th percentile in reading, where they beat 26 of 35 countries, including Germany, France and Italy. But by the eighth grade, American students are only midrange in international comparisons. By the 12th grade Americans fall from the 92nd percentile in science to the 29th percentile. While American fourth-graders are bested only by South Korea and Japan in science, by 12th grade, the only countries the American students can beat are Lithuania, Cyprus and South Africa. Therefore salary, bonuses and merit pay will be based on student improvement on standardized tests. Bonuses and perks will be assigned to schools and/or individuals based on awards, scholarships, contests won by their students.

Base merit pay on results that are tied to learning the taught curriculum which has been tested and aligned to real world needs. Don't use the stupid FCAT type tests where the test becomes the end in itself.

4) Civilianization of schools. Administrative positions will not be related to teaching positions, based on the principle that these do not require teaching credentials, but rather computer science, business experience, etc. Salaries will be substantially lower. While 80 percent of the employees of private schools are teachers, only half the employees of public schools are. The rest are "coordinating," "facilitating" or "empowering" or “supervising”. All teaching positions will be classroom positions. Teachers will not be relieved of teaching assignments for any other work. Exams will be graded outside of the school. Sports will not be considered a teaching or academic subject.

Don't agree. Some people start out as teachers and like the hands on like other professions. As they stay in longer some want to continue to teach and others want to move into management or supervisory positions. Assign them as they peform.

5) Any functions that are not education-related should be out-sourced based on competitive bidding, with contracts for a set time period. These shall include food-service, maintenance as well as transportation and after-school functions.


Don't agree unless you can show me that they get better services and save money. Privatization is not always the answer. Blackwater, KGB, etx.

6) Bring back Vocational High Schools.

Yes. Working in a trade is just as honorable as any other job. We have an apprentice program here where we put them through a program and they get their licenses and then work for the school.

7) Discipline in schools will be the same as that of society in general. Felonies will be considered felonies. Violence will be addressed by police, not by deans, or “in house.” Facilities will be set up to house disruptive individuals.

As long as they are still given the rights of a minor. In the Corps we called it "Motivation Platoon." It worked for those who didn't see the light. Some still slid, but that's the way it goes.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

In any group there is the upper and lower percentile just like the nornal curve. I seriously doubt that the bad teachers you met were more than a fraction of the whole.

1) Public school teachers are more likely than others of their income to send their children to private school. There should be a commitment to public education by these professionals to send their own children to public, not private, school.


I have no data on this and have not heard this before. They should have their kids attend the schools they teach in.

2) Teachers can decide how many students will be in their classes. Salary will be commensurate with the number of students they choose to teach.

Don't like this idea. It would reward financially people who could take in more kids, but not teach them accordingly. There has to be some studied on what consitutes the best size class by age, topic, etc.

3) In fourth grade, American students outperform most other countries in reading, math and science. Fourth-graders score in the 92nd percentile in science, the 58th percentile in math and the 70th percentile in reading, where they beat 26 of 35 countries, including Germany, France and Italy. But by the eighth grade, American students are only midrange in international comparisons. By the 12th grade Americans fall from the 92nd percentile in science to the 29th percentile. While American fourth-graders are bested only by South Korea and Japan in science, by 12th grade, the only countries the American students can beat are Lithuania, Cyprus and South Africa. Therefore salary, bonuses and merit pay will be based on student improvement on standardized tests. Bonuses and perks will be assigned to schools and/or individuals based on awards, scholarships, contests won by their students.

Base merit pay on results that are tied to learning the taught curriculum which has been tested and aligned to real world needs. Don't use the stupid FCAT type tests where the test becomes the end in itself.

4) Civilianization of schools. Administrative positions will not be related to teaching positions, based on the principle that these do not require teaching credentials, but rather computer science, business experience, etc. Salaries will be substantially lower. While 80 percent of the employees of private schools are teachers, only half the employees of public schools are. The rest are "coordinating," "facilitating" or "empowering" or “supervising”. All teaching positions will be classroom positions. Teachers will not be relieved of teaching assignments for any other work. Exams will be graded outside of the school. Sports will not be considered a teaching or academic subject.

Don't agree. Some people start out as teachers and like the hands on like other professions. As they stay in longer some want to continue to teach and others want to move into management or supervisory positions. Assign them as they peform.

5) Any functions that are not education-related should be out-sourced based on competitive bidding, with contracts for a set time period. These shall include food-service, maintenance as well as transportation and after-school functions.


Don't agree unless you can show me that they get better services and save money. Privatization is not always the answer. Blackwater, KGB, etx.

6) Bring back Vocational High Schools.

Yes. Working in a trade is just as honorable as any other job. We have an apprentice program here where we put them through a program and they get their licenses and then work for the school.

7) Discipline in schools will be the same as that of society in general. Felonies will be considered felonies. Violence will be addressed by police, not by deans, or “in house.” Facilities will be set up to house disruptive individuals.

As long as they are still given the rights of a minor. In the Corps we called it "Motivation Platoon." It worked for those who didn't see the light. Some still slid, but that's the way it goes.

I do not.

 

[strollingbones]

yall are missing this point..the father objected to the homeschooling and forced the judge to make a ruling...

father refusing to pay home schooling expenses..when public education is free..

i am not an advocate of home schooling...but i do realize they do many activities as a group...and try to socialize the kids that way...the kids still dont learn how the "game" is played...school is for one thing only now days...teaching kids how to get over ...it does seem...if you really feel like you are a better teacher for your kids..then keep them at home and teach them...but i think it takes a real ego for people with high school educations to take over teaching their kids...your kids educations will be limited by your degree of education....and again..i think the varied of people that teach in public schools could be enlightening...kids need to be exposed to different teaching methods..not everyone will spoon feed them the information....now as far as testing ahead blah blah blah....there it is simply like the public schools where they teach to the test...both sides are very guilty of that..one aspect of home schooling that i do not see being accomplished is the literary part....of having a large library with many reference sources...reference books are expensive....you can depend of the county library for that...and homeschoolers who are involved in sports teams with public schoolers are always kinda pushed to the side by the other kids...(this is only my observation)

 

[Care4all]

Well, i have witnessed my 2 nieces who were home schooled by my sister in law but then my brother in law...my sister in law is an RN and my brother in law, has an accounting degree and a degree in theology.

These girls are smart as a whip!

even if the home school teacher is just a high school grad, there is material for home schooling that keeps the children learning on the same track as those in school for the same grade levels...at home though, with one on one teaching, you can move through the grade level material and move up to the next grade's level quicker.

my nieces did all kinds of activities with those in the local schools and other outside group activities.

When things got tight, my sister in law went back to RN/nursing which pays a bundle and my brother in law stayed home with them and became their teacher in high school basically....

In many cases, one reason why kids in public schools don't learn as well is because they do not get the one on one attention of the teacher... When i went to school in brooklyn we had 40 students per class....geez, 40 kids....it should be something like no more than 15-20 max, in order to teach kids to max out their capabilities.... In the schools i went to on military bases we had one teacher for every 20 kids and the schools on base ranked really high in education.

I don't think it is arrogance on these parent's part Strolling....they just know that their kids will get a better education at home, in many cases....my nieces would have had to go to school in the Chicago public school system...they wanted to put them in private school, but they could not afford it.

As far as the father insisting he not pay for home school...WAS HE PAYING to home school the kids before he got divorced? If he was, this is a NO BRAINER, she should be able to continue home schooling their kids.

The judge should NOT have ordered these kids to attend public school, it is NOT the judges decision to make....PERIOD. Maybe the judge could rule the pop doesn't have to pay for the home schooling or something like that, but the JUDGE had NO LEGAL or constitutional right to tell this family where to school their kids.

care

 

[Ravi]

The children achieved above grade level and this assclown judge ordered them to go to public schools anyway?

Hang him.

It sounds like a divorce problem more than anything else. The father claims the mother is a member of a cult, and apparently the woman's father also agrees she is a member of a cult.

The judge had to side with one parent, he picked the father.

 

[Care4all]

The children achieved above grade level and this assclown judge ordered them to go to public schools anyway?

Hang him.

It sounds like a divorce problem more than anything else. The father claims the mother is a member of a cult, and apparently the woman's father also agrees she is a member of a cult.

The judge had to side with one parent, he picked the father.

If she is a member of a dangerous cult, why did she get custody of the kids? Could they not prove she was a member of a cult? She shouldn't have the kids at all...?

Was she home schooling them when they were married, do you know Ravi?

even in a divorce case, the judge can not choose where the kids go to school, the parent does, according to law....

The judge can determine who has custody in a divorce proceeding, but not where the kids go to school, that is up to the parent with custody.

Care

 

[Yukon]

Unbelievable....

Judge orders homeschoolers into public district classrooms

It's about time someone did the right thing.

 

[jillian]

Unbelievable....

Judge orders homeschoolers into public district classrooms

Once again, you are either intentionally lying or show absolutely no understanding of the issues.

These people are going through a divorce. Mommy wants to homeschool. Daddy thinks it's bogus. In a divorce, a JUDGE gets to decide the best interests of the child. Aren't you guys always whining that daddy should have a say? Well, in a divorce, daddy GETS a say.

perhaps you need to read things that don't lie like you do.

 

[Care4all]

The right thing, is to FOLLOW THE LAW.....and parents can choose where their kids go to school, private or public...

if this woman belongs to some dangerous cult, then the right thing to do would be to give custody to the father....within Divorce LAW.

 

[Care4all]

no, in a divorce the judge does not get to decide where the kids go to school, that is the parent's responsibility. If she has custody, it is up to her, if he has custody it is up to him...

Are they sharing custody 50/50? Do the kids live with him 50% of the time?

If she belongs to a cult, give the custody to the father...

that is within the law.

 

[jillian]

The right thing, is to FOLLOW THE LAW.....and parents can choose where their kids go to school, private or public...

if this woman belongs to some dangerous cult, then the right thing to do would be to give custody to the father....within Divorce LAW.

you'd be correct if they weren't disagreeing about the issue in court. and dad gets a say. so perhaps dad convinced the judge that the kids weren't getting a well-rounded education. I think it's not the ideological nightmare that the wingnuts are trying to make it into.

 

[Yukon]

say "Bye Bye" to the so-called right of religious zealots to brainwash their children. It's about time these loonies were taken to task. BRAVO to the judge BRAVO !

 

[Care4all]

The judge, when contacted by WND, explained his goal in ordering the children to register and attend a public school was to make sure they have a "more well-rounded education."

"I thought Ms. Mills had done a good job [in homeschooling]," he said. "It was great for them to have that access, and [I had] no problems with homeschooling. I said public schooling would be a good complement."

THIS JUDGE has NO JURISDICTION to make this decision for the mother who has custody.

it is ACTIVISIM on his part...and a far reach.

Even the California Ruling mentioned in the article, was REVERSED on this, though the article doesn't mention it, i researched the California ruling and the appellate court reversed their own ruling, stating that according to state law, Parents can choose where their kids go to school, whether private or public and home schooling was considered a form of private school.

 

[Ravi]

The children achieved above grade level and this assclown judge ordered them to go to public schools anyway?

Hang him.

It sounds like a divorce problem more than anything else. The father claims the mother is a member of a cult, and apparently the woman's father also agrees she is a member of a cult.

The judge had to side with one parent, he picked the father.

If she is a member of a dangerous cult, why did she get custody of the kids? Could they not prove she was a member of a cult? She shouldn't have the kids at all...?

Was she home schooling them when they were married, do you know Ravi?

even in a divorce case, the judge can not choose where the kids go to school, the parent does, according to law....

The judge can determine who has custody in a divorce proceeding, but not where the kids go to school, that is up to the parent with custody.

Care

I don't know when she joined the cult. And I disagree. Even in divorced families, both parents still have a say in their children's education.

 

[Yukon]

THIS JUDGE has NO JURISDICTION to make this decision for the mother who has custody.

"The Judge has no jurisdiction" ...what a stupid remark..........were you home schooled?

 

[Care4all]

THIS JUDGE has NO JURISDICTION to make this decision for the mother who has custody.

"The Judge has no jurisdiction" ...what a stupid remark..........were you home schooled?

He doesn't have this decision to make.... if the mother does not deserve custody of the kids, then he can make this ruling....but for him to think he can babysit her and make decisions that are lawfully hers to make, he's got another thing coming....

She needs to appeal this ruling, the appellate court will rule in her favor, if they follow the law and precedent of the California ruling regarding this...

once you take the parents right to determine what schools their children go to, then you will have any judge be able to tell any parent that their kids MUST go to public schools and abolish ALL private schools....

I don't think society will accept such...and society is the government and makes the government do what they want, within the constitution.

Give the kids to the father, if the mother is a loony tune, then he can make the decision to put the kids in public school...not the judge....unless he rules the mother unfit and if he does that, then she won't have the custody of the kids.

 

[jillian]

THIS JUDGE has NO JURISDICTION to make this decision for the mother who has custody.

That's entirely untrue, Care. The judge can, once the father raised the issue, make any decision he feels is in the best interests of the child. See, this is what i'm talking about. my guess is that the motion before the court was to get the mother to put the kids into public school. that motion would have been brought by dad and has to be decided by the court.

it is ACTIVISIM on his part...and a far reach.

huh? sorry... wrong on both counts.

Even the California Ruling mentioned in the article, was REVERSED on this, though the article doesn't mention it, i researched the California ruling and the appellate court reversed their own ruling, stating that according to state law, Parents can choose where their kids go to school, whether private or public and home schooling was considered a form of private school.

not if there's a divorce going on and the issue is before the court... .and one of the parents doesn't want his kids homeschooled.