CDZ Smoker's Rights

[OohPooPahDoo]

Is it worth it?

what about making cigarette smoking illegal. I know it won't happen, but, would you be for that? Or is it something you think people should only do where it is "legal" ...

I'm for making the use of any drug you like legal on your own property, so long as it doesn't interfere with others' enjoyment of their own property.

 

[Carla_Danger]

My stepdad died a few years ago having smoked several packs a day much of his life. Was 83, significantly exceeding his life expectency. While he died from lung cancer, so what? What if he'd died at 75 of heart failure? Would we blame the smoking then? Probably not since heart failure isn't one of things associated with smoking. But while he smoked a bloody lot, and died from something linked to smoking, he also lived longer than the avg so what should we say about his smoking? Did he live longer for it, or die younger because of it?

Your stepdad's experience is wholly irrelevant. But, yes, his smoking shortened his life and likely made the end painful. Smoking causes and contributes to serious health problems. On average, smokers like shorter and less healthy lives.

Not to mention his quality of life while he was living, or lack of. I certainly wouldn't want to make a trip to the grocery store, having to drag an oxygen tank around.

 

[Carla_Danger]

I quit 10 years ago. I'm pro smoker all the way. My dad died from smoking Camels. Still, I'm all for it if you like it. This is just silly ...

No one's ever died from smoking. Would be banned overnight if that were true.

With literally thousands of carcinogens in our enviroment, the ones that actually start a cancer is impossible to determine. You'd have to eliminate everything else then expose someone to tobacco smoke and see if they get cancer to say with certainty, smoking causes cancer. Lots of of things cause cancer. Flame retardants in our clothes and furniture are huge causes as well. Lot of our food cause cancers as well. Tobacco use is 1 risk factor among thousands of others.

For 'smoking causes cancer' to be true, every smoker would have to get cancer. In fact according to the CDC itself, only about 40% of smokers develop lung cancer. And whether it was the smoking, or some other combination of things that caused it can't be determined.

Smoking causes cancer and exacerbates a ton of other illnesses. That is not even subject to debate. Saying that since only 40 % of smokers get lung cancer proves there is no causal relationship cause the other 60 % don't has to be about the silliest thing I have read. How many people who don't smoke get lung cancer? Not many. If you want to smoke, go right ahead but do not lie and claim there is no connection between smoking and serious health problems and early death. That is offensive.

"Lung cancer mainly occurs in older people. About 2 out of 3 people diagnosed with lung cancer are 65 or older; fewer than 2% of all cases are found in people younger than 45. The average age at the time of diagnosis is about 70."
What are the key statistics about lung cancer

Given the median life expectency is 70-80, you were going to die anyway. So really, did smoking kill you, or did you just hit your avg life expectency where you were going to die from something regardless.

Great source. Here is something else from that website:


Are any types of cigarettes safe to smoke?
What kinds of illness and death are caused by smoking cigarettes?
About half of all Americans who keep smoking will die because of the habit. Each year about 480,000 people in the United States die from illnesses related to tobacco use. Smoking cigarettes kills more Americans than alcohol, car accidents, suicide, AIDS, homicide, and illegal drugs combined.

Cancers caused by smoking
Cigarette smoking accounts for at least 30% of all cancer deaths. It’s linked with an increased risk of these cancers:

• Lung
• Larynx (voice box)
• Oral cavity (mouth, tongue, and lips)
• Nose and sinuses
• Pharynx (throat)
• Esophagus (tube connecting the throat to the stomach)
• Stomach
• Pancreas
• Cervix
• Kidney
• Bladder
• Ovary (a type called mucinous ovarian cancer)
• Colorectum (the colon and/or the rectum)
• Acute myeloid leukemia

Gotta die from something eventually. Think the impression people try to push that if you don't smoke, do exercise and eat well you'll live forever is so we are more blaise' about death. Think instead we should accept death as a necessary and inevitible result of having been born. If not preparing ourselves mentally for the deaths of loved ones, when that happens, and it will, it's just gonna negatively efect more than if we'd prepared ourselves for it by accepting it.

Death of people who live beyond 80 isn't an 'oh what a horrible tragedy they died' but a 'hurray they exceeded their life expectency!'

Not only will you live longer, but your quality of life is greatly improved. There are never any guarantees, but you pretending that smokers live as long as non smokers is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

My Grandma smoked from late teens to 82. Stayed active till 96. She lived to 99.

You either do or you don't.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

My stepdad died a few years ago having smoked several packs a day much of his life. Was 83, significantly exceeding his life expectency. While he died from lung cancer, so what? What if he'd died at 75 of heart failure? Would we blame the smoking then? Probably not since heart failure isn't one of things associated with smoking. But while he smoked a bloody lot, and died from something linked to smoking, he also lived longer than the avg so what should we say about his smoking? Did he live longer for it, or die younger because of it?

Heart failure most certainly is associated with smoking. You can't seriously be this ignorant.

He definitely died from smoking. If you wanted him dead at 83, I guess its no problem. If you are assuming you'll make it that far as a smoker, bad bet. Not only that, it degrades nearly every aspect of your health. You're better off gaining 75 lbs.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Gotta die from something eventually. Think the impression people try to push that if you don't smoke, do exercise and eat well you'll live forever is so we are more blaise' about death.

That's not really the impression anyone is trying to push. Its an oversimplication you've made because your tiny brain is incapable of understanding statistics.

Think instead we should accept death as a necessary and inevitible result of having been born. If not preparing ourselves mentally for the deaths of loved ones, when that happens, and it will, it's just gonna negatively efect more than if we'd prepared ourselves for it by accepting it.

Death of people who live beyond 80 isn't an 'oh what a horrible tragedy they died' but a 'hurray they exceeded their life expectency!'

Life expectancy varies throughout your life. It gets longer as you age. In the end, no one beats their life expectancy.

 

[Carla_Danger]

My Grandma smoked from late teens to 82. Stayed active till 96. She lived to 99.

You either do or you don't.

I'm not buying it.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Or, interestingly a smoker if not actively smoking.

This.

Then you would agree that I have a right to demand that you stop wearing your favorite after-shave or eating liver in public if I don't like the way it smells?

Does it cause you to get cancer?

 

[Bonzi]

This no not a debate about smoking and longevity .. it's about whether business should have a right to make the smoking policy THEIR call vs. that of the state or federal gov't.

People smoke, it's legal, we all make choices. You can't say if someone should or shouldn't smoke. Just like drinking. You don't hear people droning on about the ill effects of alcohol on your liver, because drinking is not offensive (to most) - you do, however, hear about drunk driving, quite a bit more serious to others than smoking.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Should laws be changed so that stores and owner's of businesses get to decide if their establishment will allow smoking on the premises and inside the buildings?

I think smoke shops can allow smoking. And other smoking related stores. I remember seeing it on several occasions

If the smokers had been willing to make compromises, there would probably be more places that were licensed to allow smoking. In my city cigar bars and hookah bars licensed at the time of the smoking ban are allowed to continue operation - but I can't help but think if the pro-smokes had been willing to offer a compromise, licenses would have been made available to a larger number of bars.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

My Grandma smoked from late teens to 82. Stayed active till 96. She lived to 99.

You either do or you don't.

I'm not buying it.

Shrug. Absolutely true, and in fact a study was recently published concerning individual genetic makeup and external influences in regard to disease. Apparently genetic makeup plays the largest part, and some are more prone to disease than others.

The gist of the report was that while avoiding harmful substances may make you overall healthier, it has little effect on one's cellular propensity to disease.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

This no not a debate about smoking and longevity .. it's about whether business should have a right to make the smoking policy THEIR call vs. that of the state or federal gov't.

Do you think restaurants should be allowed to serve toilet water to their patrons?

 

[Bonzi]

This no not a debate about smoking and longevity .. it's about whether business should have a right to make the smoking policy THEIR call vs. that of the state or federal gov't.

Do you think restaurants should be allowed to serve toilet water to their patrons?

If the restaurant says they are serving it, the patron has the choice to partake or not.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

My Grandma smoked from late teens to 82. Stayed active till 96. She lived to 99.

You either do or you don't.

I'm not buying it.

Shrug. Absolutely true, and in fact a study was recently published concerning individual genetic makeup and external influences in regard to disease. Apparently genetic makeup plays the largest part, and some are more prone to disease than others.

The gist of the report was that while avoiding harmful substances may make you overall healthier, it has little effect on one's cellular propensity to disease.

Smoking increases your risk of dying from cancer or heart disease regardless of your cellular propensity. Are you suggesting those gifted with longevity should waste it on inhaling the tobacco smoke of others in public places?

 

[paddymurphy]

This no not a debate about smoking and longevity .. it's about whether business should have a right to make the smoking policy THEIR call vs. that of the state or federal gov't.

People smoke, it's legal, we all make choices. You can't say if someone should or shouldn't smoke. Just like drinking. You don't hear people droning on about the ill effects of alcohol on your liver, because drinking is not offensive (to most) - you do, however, hear about drunk driving, quite a bit more serious to others than smoking.

The discussion I was having with other was about whether there are health risks from smoking. As for whether the government should be permitted to ban it from public area, of course they should. It can harm others. No one should be forced to be exposed to things that can harm them. And government efforts to curb smoking have worked and millions of lives saved.

 

[paddymurphy]

My Grandma smoked from late teens to 82. Stayed active till 96. She lived to 99.

You either do or you don't.

I'm not buying it.

Shrug. Absolutely true, and in fact a study was recently published concerning individual genetic makeup and external influences in regard to disease. Apparently genetic makeup plays the largest part, and some are more prone to disease than others.

The gist of the report was that while avoiding harmful substances may make you overall healthier, it has little effect on one's cellular propensity to disease.

And who paid for that study? Phillip Morris? Bullshit, to put it mildly.

 

[Bonzi]

This no not a debate about smoking and longevity .. it's about whether business should have a right to make the smoking policy THEIR call vs. that of the state or federal gov't.

People smoke, it's legal, we all make choices. You can't say if someone should or shouldn't smoke. Just like drinking. You don't hear people droning on about the ill effects of alcohol on your liver, because drinking is not offensive (to most) - you do, however, hear about drunk driving, quite a bit more serious to others than smoking.

The discussion I was having with other was about whether there are health risks from smoking. As for whether the government should be permitted to ban it from public area, of course they should. It can harm others. No one should be forced to be exposed to things that can harm them. And government efforts to curb smoking have worked and millions of lives saved.

this discussion ALMOST makes me want to do research, because frankly, I think that comment "saving millions of lives" I can almost guarantee is a HUGE exaggeration!

 

[paddymurphy]

This no not a debate about smoking and longevity .. it's about whether business should have a right to make the smoking policy THEIR call vs. that of the state or federal gov't.

People smoke, it's legal, we all make choices. You can't say if someone should or shouldn't smoke. Just like drinking. You don't hear people droning on about the ill effects of alcohol on your liver, because drinking is not offensive (to most) - you do, however, hear about drunk driving, quite a bit more serious to others than smoking.

The discussion I was having with other was about whether there are health risks from smoking. As for whether the government should be permitted to ban it from public area, of course they should. It can harm others. No one should be forced to be exposed to things that can harm them. And government efforts to curb smoking have worked and millions of lives saved.

this discussion ALMOST makes me want to do research, because frankly, I think that comment "saving millions of lives" I can almost guarantee is a HUGE exaggeration!

"A recent study in the American Journal of Public Health found that for every dollar spent by Washington State’s tobacco prevention and control program between 2000 and 2009, more than five dollars were saved by reducing hospitalizations for heart disease, stroke, respiratory disease and cancer caused by tobacco use.1 Over the 10-year period, the program prevented nearly 36,000 hospitalizations, saving $1.5 billion compared to $260 million spent on the program. The 5-to-1 return on investment is conservative because the cost savings only reflect the savings from prevented hospitalizations. The researchers indicate that the total cost savings could more than double if factors like physician visits, pharmaceutical costs and rehabilitation costs were included." Billions of dollars saved!!

"Researchers from Yale University and colleagues estimate that 8 million deaths have been avoided since the first US Surgeon General’s Report on Smoking and Health in 1964. This January marks the 50th anniversary of that report, which inspired efforts by the government, volunteer organizations (including the American Cancer Society), and the private sector to reduce cigarette smoking and other tobacco use through education, cigarette tax increases, smoke-free policies, media campaigns, marketing and sales restrictions, and quit-smoking programs.

“Surgeon General Luther Terry’s landmark report on smoking and health in 1964 called unprecedented attention to the deadly consequences of tobacco use and represented a turning point in tobacco control in this country,” said John R. Seffrin, PhD, CEO of the American Cancer Society and its advocacy affiliate, the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network (ACS CAN), in a statement. “Since then, public education campaigns and efforts to enact proven tobacco control policies have helped to reduce the smoking rate from 42% to 19%, and with it the nation’s most preventable cause of death.”

And 8 million lives saved. Next?

 

[Bonzi]

... this thread makes me want to smoke....

 

[paddymurphy]

... this thread makes me want to smoke....

Why would a thread about how millions die and get sick because of smoking make you want to smoke? No respect for the gift of life that God gave you?